1.8 metre rule back

Wizard · 30-08-2014 8:23am #1

Hi guys, had a call from a friend in the trade.
He said he received an email stating that the 1.8 metre rule is back due to the amount of people trying to register new vans,
However it states that anyone importing a camper conversion with lower headroom will be accepted.
I don't have any further info at present but will try to get a copy of the email

Aidan_M_M · 31-08-2014 8:59am

we got the same email the other day.

airhead_eire · 31-08-2014 2:21pm

Wizard wrote: »

However it states that anyone importing a camper conversion with lower headroom will be accepted.

Aren't they discriminating against Irish conversion companies by doing that ?

Marlow · 09-09-2014 1:06pm

That email was from the Motor Caravan Club of Ireland. NOT from the Revenue.

It's a disgrace and damages the creditibility of the Motor Caravan Club, when they send information around, that a) is incorrect and b) probably is pushed by other elements in the Motor Caravan industry in Ireland, as they try to damage the market for the irish van converters.

If the Revenue were to re-introduce the 1.8m rule, they would be in breach of the EU laws, which removed this rule in the first place, while other countries still are in the process of removing or just have removed the height restriction from their laws. (I believe, Germany only dropped the 1.7m rule this year).

Also, were they to re-introduce the 1.8m rule, they would kill off irish businesses and irish jobs. These are people, that then will be on the Dole or be leaving the country. Figure that for the irish economy.

Anyhow. This has been queried with Revenue and while they are keeping their options open, it has not been reintroduced currently.

The rules for conversions can be found here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html#section7 . This is the ONE AND ONLY source for the specification for a camper and anything else is hear say.

Should these rules change, this document is what changes. Anywhere else is based on this document.

In my opinion, that email is a political stunt to push for a rule change, rather than anything else. It's bad form and paints a very bad picture for the reputability of the Motor Caravan Club of Ireland.

Insuring a camper under 1.8m height then is another story.

/M

moodrater · 09-09-2014 2:20pm

Marlow wrote: »

The rules for conversions can be found here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html#section7 . This is the ONE AND ONLY source for the specification for a camper and anything else is hear say.

At some stage in the last 6 months they added this gem: "Comfortable living accommodation should comprise an area where a person (of average height) could move around in a standing position." :rolleyes:

Marlow · 09-09-2014 2:24pm

moodrater wrote: »

At some stage in the last 6 months they added this gem: "Comfortable living accommodation should comprise an area where a person (of average height) could move around in a standing position." :rolleyes:

Yep. But it's subjective to whoever does the assessment. And what's average height ?

If you ask Revenue what average height is, they'll ignore you and don't answer.

Also, standing yes, but it doesn't say, that it's upraised standing. Matter of interpretation.

Fact is, that asked about the 1.8m rule, their answer was, that they currently not are reintroducing it. Fact is also, that the email was NOT from Revenue. It was from the Motor Caravan Club, who may have their own agenda trying to push this.

/M

niloc1951 · 09-09-2014 3:38pm

A most disappointing thread.

All clubs and the industry should be campaigning to bring the most beneficial environment to Ireland for the users of motorhomes.
It's important that owners of such vehicles, no matter how big or small, can derive the full benefits for their investments.

One of the most overdue campaigns is for the removal of hight barriers which deny the full use of the pubic road, such barriers are illegal in France and other countries when they discriminate against the the free circulation of some vehicles.

Another issue which the trade and some clubs have been silent on is the VRT farce, I know a VRT has to be paid but the way it's calculated is shrouded in secrecy and often bears no relation to the actual selling prices motorhomes are making in this market. The tax is also structured in such a way as to discourage personal imports by denying citizens the knowledge of how much the tax will be until after the purchase has been made. We must be the only country where the Government requires we complete a purchase transaction without knowing its full after tax price. OMSP my @rse. rant over.
Come to think about it, the way VRT is operated in respect of motorhomes is probably against some human right or other international convention

reelkidmusic · 10-09-2014 10:59am

niloc1951 wrote: »

One of the most overdue campaigns is for the removal of hight barriers which deny the full use of the pubic road, such barriers are illegal in France and other countries when they discriminate against the the free circulation of some vehicles.

I can't see barriers being removed any time soon. Unfortunately these barriers have resulted from a certain element of the population.

niloc1951 wrote: »

The tax is also structured in such a way as to discourage personal imports

This seems to be the theme with all vehicles regardless of category. The system is simply unfair.

It would also seem that the scare mongering is beginning on classified ads also. This will certainly not help

http://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/mazda-bongo-conversation/7644008

Marlow · 10-09-2014 11:58am

reelkidmusic wrote: »

It would also seem that the scare mongering is beginning on classified ads also. This will certainly not help

http://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/mazda-bongo-conversation/7644008

A trader, that needs scare mongering to get business, is somebody I simply wouldn't deal with.

/M

killalanerr · 10-09-2014 9:06pm

I don't have an opinion on the hight rule,if it works for you who cares how hi it is, but the VRT thing boils my head, as someone who has always self imported I find the current system ludicrous, if the clubs what some thing to do they can join me in my e mail campaign, not that i seem to be getting anywhere with it ....

Irishgoatman · 11-09-2014 5:20pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

One of the most overdue campaigns is for the removal of hight barriers which deny the full use of the pubic road, such barriers are illegal in France and other countries when they discriminate against the the free circulation of some vehicles.

Whilst I agree that height barriers are a pain even for my small camper, as far as I'm aware there are no height barriers on public roads, only into public/private car parks. Public car parks are provided by town councils to enable people to have access to the town by coming in by car but, again as far as I'm aware, there is no legal responsibility on the councils to provide these. If all height barriers were removed is it not possible that, apart from one well known community, they could be taken over by numerious commercial vehicles for overnight parking?. How about living next/close to a car park with one or two refrigerated lorries parking overnight?. Not good.

You, niloc, say that they are illegal in France, so are you saying that no public/council provided town car parks have barriers? I've only taken cars on to the continent so have never needed to be aware of barriers.

Yes they are a pain but not sure what the answer is.

Marlow · 11-09-2014 5:42pm

Irishgoatman wrote: »

You, niloc, say that they are illegal in France, so are you saying that no public/council provided town car parks have barriers? I've only taken cars on to the continent so have never needed to be aware of barriers.

Height barriers are a pure irish and maybe british phenomenon.

On the continent, they only exist to protect a building/bridge behind them. Never to restrict access to an area. At least in the countries I've been to, and that's a lot of western Europe.

/M

Irishgoatman · 11-09-2014 8:22pm

Marlow wrote: »

Height barriers are a pure irish and maybe british phenomenon.

On the continent, they only exist to protect a building/bridge behind them. Never to restrict access to an area. At least in the countries I've been to, and that's a lot of western Europe.

/M

As I said, I've never noticed them in France, or Germany when I lived there, or Spain, Portugal, Belgium or Holland because they didn't affect me. So what if they are only in Ireland or Britain?, that doesn't change the fact that unless there is a law regarding them it is up to individual councils or town managers as to whether they, or even the carparks that they protect, are needed, and I think we all know how much notice they take of public opinion.
If camper owners were to start some sort of campaign with regard to parking, which I would fully support, I think pushing for a short stay parking area on the edge of towns would be likely to have more luck than barrier removal. Just my opinion.

niloc1951 · 11-09-2014 8:30pm

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Whilst I agree that height barriers are a pain even for my small camper, as far as I'm aware there are no height barriers on public roads, only into public/private car parks. Public car parks are provided by town councils to enable people to have access to the town by coming in by car but, again as far as I'm aware, there is no legal responsibility on the councils to provide these. If all height barriers were removed is it not possible that, apart from one well known community, they could be taken over by numerious commercial vehicles for overnight parking?. How about living next/close to a car park with one or two refrigerated lorries parking overnight?. Not good.

You, niloc, say that they are illegal in France, so are you saying that no public/council provided town car parks have barriers? I've only taken cars on to the continent so have never needed to be aware of barriers.

Yes they are a pain but not sure what the answer is.

Roads Act, 1993:

“public road” means a road over which a public right of way exists and the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority.

“road” includes—
(a) any street, lane, footpath, square, court, alley or passage.

Road Traffic Act, 1961:
“car park” means a place (not being part of a public road) for the parking of mechanically propelled vehicles
(7) A local authority may make bye-laws as to the use of any car park provided by them under this section, and, in particular, in relation to all or any of the following matters:(a) restricting the classes of vehicles which may be admitted to the car park;

Now, a motor caravan and a car are both in the same vehicle class, ie, Passenger vehicle with less than eight seats not including the drivers seat.
There is nothing in The Act which permits restrictions based on vehicle hight. There are after all many different class's of vehicle which may be of differing heights, think of goods vehicle these can be anywhere between a car derived van and a 4.65 metre HGV

Irishgoatman · 11-09-2014 9:32pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

Roads Act, 1993:

“public road” means a road over which a public right of way exists and the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority.

“road” includes—
(a) any street, lane, footpath, square, court, alley or passage.

Road Traffic Act, 1961:
“car park” means a place (not being part of a public road) for the parking of mechanically propelled vehicles
(7) A local authority may make bye-laws as to the use of any car park provided by them under this section, and, in particular, in relation to all or any of the following matters:(a) restricting the classes of vehicles which may be admitted to the car park;

Now, a motor caravan and a car are both in the same vehicle class, ie, Passenger vehicle with less than eight seats not including the drivers seat.
There is nothing in The Act which permits restrictions based on vehicle hight. There are after all many different class's of vehicle which may be of differing heights, think of goods vehicle these can be anywhere between a car derived van and a 4.65 metre HGV

Exactly. Bye-laws. Nothing to stop councils from having restrictions within different classes of vehicles. Private vehicles only up to a certain height, commercial vehicles up to a certain weight etc..
Not the law of the land, just down to the whim of the council unfortunately.

Moomat · 12-09-2014 9:34am

Some public car parks in France do have height barriers, however, there will usually be designated parking for bigger vehicles close by.

Why do people create and maintain the image of bogeymen??
I've often heard it said that these barriers are neccasary to prevent transient people living there for a time. Very few people still move around like this as they would have even 10 years ago. There is no reason why fear means will all should be punished. If a carpark is big enough for vans then it should have no barrier. Let the police deal with anybody who breaks the law.
France has a large transient community and ample parking for campers in most towns but abuse would not be tolerated. Or the parking of 45ft fridges.

Another bogeyman people create is the image of the person who will convert thousands of vehicles if there are no minumum heights required for campers just to ensure they get cheap tax. People have different needs and if someones camper meets their needs and conforms to the EU law well that fine by me regardless of size.

Marlow · 12-09-2014 9:37am

Moomat wrote: »

If a carpark is big enough for vans then it should have no barrier. Let the police deal with anybody who breaks the law.

Unfortunatly there's still a lot of that community here.

And the garda have in many cases no saying, when it comes to a carpark. And often don't care anyhow.

Combine those two issues and the barriers won't dissapear for the forseeable future.

/M

Moomat · 12-09-2014 9:44am

Marlow wrote: »

That email was from the Motor Caravan Club of Ireland. NOT from the Revenue.

The rules for conversions can be found here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vehicle-conversions.html#section7 . This is the ONE AND ONLY source for the specification for a camper and anything else is hear say.

Should these rules change, this document is what changes. Anywhere else is based on this document.

Insuring a camper under 1.8m height then is another story.

/M

Unfortuately Revenue take much of their guidance from The Motorcaravan Club. I had correspondence from them to Revenue quoted to me by Rosslare when I was trying to get a vehicle passed.

Revenue will probably follow the line that in their view living accommodation means being able to stand up and move around. I doubt they will put it in writing that 1.8m is a new requirement but will proabably refuse the conversions on some associated reason. Ultimately I suppose you could appeal, appeal and probably appeal somewhere else but how long and how much would that be.

The only people who would insure campers less than 1.8 are the Motorcaravan Club. I wonder what their stance will be going forward??

Marlow · 12-09-2014 9:48am

Moomat wrote: »

Unfortuately Revenue take much of their guidance from The Motorcaravan Club. I had correspondence from them to Revenue quoted to me by Rosslare when I was trying to get a vehicle passed.

They have a lot of pull alright. That's the reason, why this is being challenged by the converters.

Also, they're not the only ones to insure vehicles under 1.8m. Dolmen will also, if it is build by certain converters, who have made an agreement with them.

The Motor Caravan Club only insures under 1.8m, if it's a good conversion and they will inspect it.

That's where I mentioned before, that insurance is an entirely different matter.

/M

moodrater · 12-09-2014 9:51am

Moomat wrote: »

I had correspondence from them to Revenue quoted to me by Rosslare when I was trying to get a vehicle passed.

Was that recently regarding the 1.8m or something else?

Moomat · 12-09-2014 9:54am

Marlow wrote: »

Unfortunatly there's still a lot of that community here.

And the garda have in many cases no saying, when it comes to a carpark. And often don't care anyhow.

Combine those two issues and the barriers won't dissapear for the forseeable future.

/M

I'm not sure where you are but there are very few groups moving around that I have seen in recent years. Even so that reenforces my point. We should not all be punished for the actions of a few.
Lets say there's 5,000 car parks in Ireland that would be suitable for a camper for a night or 2, France Aires style even. And lets say there are 20 groups moving around who like to stay in car parks. My sums may be wrong but that's a 0.4% chance that they are in a carpark somewhere. Surely the eforcement should be on the wrong doer's and not the 1000's of car parks with no problem.
Policing it this way is crazy and I suppose we should be hounding the Garda and local public representatives to deal with it in a less lazy fashion.

Moomat · 12-09-2014 9:55am

moodrater wrote: »

Was that recently regarding the 1.8m or something else?

Yep, that and my kitchen arrangement.

Marlow · 12-09-2014 9:58am

Anyhow.

If they give us any issues, I'll just start offering a service, where you export the van to NI and then reimport

VRT is the same rate either way

They can f*ck right off.

/M

niloc1951 · 12-09-2014 1:01pm

Moomat wrote: »

Unfortuately Revenue take much of their guidance from The Motorcaravan Club. I had correspondence from them to Revenue quoted to me by Rosslare when I was trying to get a vehicle passed.

Revenue will probably follow the line that in their view living accommodation means being able to stand up and move around. I doubt they will put it in writing that 1.8m is a new requirement but will proabably refuse the conversions on some associated reason. Ultimately I suppose you could appeal, appeal and probably appeal somewhere else but how long and how much would that be.

The only people who would insure campers less than 1.8 are the Motorcaravan Club. I wonder what their stance will be going forward??

There are two separate issues at play here.

A motor caravan is a special purpose M category vehicle constructed to include living accommodation which contains at least the following equipment:
— seats and table,
— sleeping accommodation which may be converted from the seats,
— cooking facilities, and
— storage facilities.
This equipment shall be rigidly fixed to the living compartment; however, the table may be designed to be easily removable.

End of. No mention of height minimum or otherwise. Therefore any vehicle which meets the above criteria is by definition a motor caravan.

However, here in Ireland we have a VRT and Road Tax system which are local domestic forms of taxation. The tax collectors are entitled to deicide criteria applicable to various vehicles (for example in the UK motor caravans road tax falls within the Private and Heavy Goods Vehicle category depending on GVW)
The 1.8 metre rule is one such criteria which they can be used if they so wish to permit a motor caravan to qualify for the special motor home tax rate.
TBH it's probably got to do with attempting to deny people who wish to use a small camper van as their daily transport and avoid the tax costs of a car.

It is also probably a good ides to restrict camper insurance for vehicles which will only be use as campers and not as a principal means of transport. If there were a lot of campers being used daily it would inevitably increase the claims experience of insurers and we could kiss goodbye to the special camper insurance we enjoy.

Marlow · 12-09-2014 2:46pm

niloc1951 wrote: »

It is also probably a good ides to restrict camper insurance for vehicles which will only be use as campers and not as a principal means of transport. If there were a lot of campers being used daily it would inevitably increase the claims experience of insurers and we could kiss goodbye to the special camper insurance we enjoy.

The restriction there is already in place, as you can't get campervan insurance, unless you have another policy already. If you don't have another policy or use the camper as your daily, you insure the campervan as a car. End off.

Also, those campervans, who can't be insured, because the insurances require 1.8m can still be insured as a car/mpv no bother. Just a matter of the right answers to the questions an insurance asks.

That discussion has nothing to do with it.

As for the VRT rules, the above is governing for qualifying in the logbook as motor caravan. And motorcaravans have to specified as such on the logbook, because otherwise they get into hassle in other european countries.

If the revenue wanted to have different motor tax rules for campervans based on their usage, then they'd need to set up 2 groups of campervans.

They have to approve caravans as per the above 4 criteria and not to add additional criteria to it, as it's EU law. And this was implemented AS SUCH into irish law in 2011. Anything added to that will contradict the EU law and the harmonization on the european market and hence is not allowed. That's the black on white there.

Should they add things to it again, once courtcase brought to EU level would scooper them.

/M

moodrater · 12-09-2014 3:51pm

Marlow wrote: »

Also, those campervans, who can't be insured, because the insurances require 1.8m can still be insured as a car/mpv no bother. Just a matter of the right answers to the questions an insurance asks.

me: I'd just like to get a quote on my mpv
insurance: sure whats the registration number
me:96wdxxx
insurance: thats listed as a camper we can't provide you with a quote etc.

Marlow · 12-09-2014 3:55pm

moodrater wrote: »

me: I'd just like to get a quote on my mpv
insurance: sure whats the registration number
me:96wdxxx
insurance: thats listed as a camper we can't provide you with a quote etc.

First of all, they don't have the category from the logbook most of the time. That's not necessarily, data that they are presented with.

It's also not uncommon, that vehicles are categorized wrongly.

If you have those sort of issues, then you're giving the insurance too much information.

I have successfully insured VW T4 Caravelle, that are campervan conversions as 5 or 7 seater MPVs. No issue whatsover. Two of my colleagues have exactly that: a campervan, that's their only car and hence needs to be insured like that.

/M

niloc1951 · 12-09-2014 3:58pm

Marlow wrote: »

The restriction there is already in place, as you can't get campervan insurance, unless you have another policy already. If you don't have another policy or use the camper as your daily, you insure the campervan as a car. End off.

Also, those campervans, who can't be insured, because the insurances require 1.8m can still be insured as a car/mpv no bother. Just a matter of the right answers to the questions an insurance asks.

That discussion has nothing to do with it.

As for the VRT rules, the above is governing for qualifying in the logbook as motor caravan. And motorcaravans have to specified as such on the logbook, because otherwise they get into hassle in other european countries.

If the revenue wanted to have different motor tax rules for campervans based on their usage, then they'd need to set up 2 groups of campervans.

They have to approve caravans as per the above 4 criteria and not to add additional criteria to it, as it's EU law. And this was implemented AS SUCH into irish law in 2011. Anything added to that will contradict the EU law and the harmonization on the european market and hence is not allowed. That's the black on white there.

Should they add things to it again, once courtcase brought to EU level would scooper them.

/M

I think you may have missed my point about the height issue.
I know if a vehicle fulfils the EU criteria for a motor caravan then that's it, they're EU Vehicle Category (J) motor caravan.

My point is that with respect to the Motor Taxation Class (J.2) and VRT Vehicle Category (J.1) the Government are free to put certain motor caravans into a different class if they so wish, currently all motor caravans are in taxation and VRT class as motor caravans but there is nothing stopping them from putting say motor caravans less than 1.8 meters high into a different class, it's a local issue.
Motor caravans used to be subject to the car or was it goods tax rates in times past and those over 3,000kg were subject to goods vehicle VRT. Currently motor caravans pay goods vehicle road tax rates in the UK.

All the above is another reason why we need a coherent lobby group to protect and promote the interests of motor caravan owners against the preying eyes of those who seek to relieve of of our hard earned cash.
We certainly don't need another example of what they did to us with the VRT back in 2011, a draconian measure which added over €12k to the cost of an average motor caravan and not a single protest was heard.

Marlow · 12-09-2014 4:01pm

The cheaper VRT rate of 200 EUR for motor caravans over 3000 kg was done away with in 2012.

There is no difference there anymore. So it has nothing to do with anything now.

There's only one category for motorcaravans now as per irish Revenue. So unless they split it up again, into for example over 1.8m and under, they have to stick to the EU rules. They can not exclude campers under 1.8m. Especially not differentiate between vans converted in the countries and vans imported from outside, what the mail from the Motor Caravan Club suggested.

/M

Marlow · 12-09-2014 4:08pm

Anyhow. Any of above is assumption.

I confirmed with Rosslare personally, that this was not something they had plans for currently.

The email was from the Motor Caravan Club of Ireland and was not the official voice of Revenue.

End of debate. It's scare mongering. And it's bad form.

/M

stevire · 12-09-2014 7:21pm

With regards to insurance, just ask the broker to take it to the underwriters. It goes to the real insurance company, and they don't enforce/understand the height ruling and will offer insurance

Alkers · 14-09-2014 2:31pm

stevire wrote: »

With regards to insurance, just ask the broker to take it to the underwriters. It goes to the real insurance company, and they don't enforce/understand the height ruling and will offer insurance

Can you explain what you mean here?

stevire · 15-09-2014 9:55am

Simona1986 wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean here?

I contacted AXA on Twitter and a PR Specialist sent me a message to email them directly (i've removed their name/email):

Hi [removed],

I'm currently trying to seek camper insurance. I've tried Dolmen Insurances which have denied a quote due to a 1.8 metre internal height requirement in force by AXA.

In January 2011 the 1.8m height requirement was removed by Revenue for classifications of a camper. In March 2011 I went through the full process of converting a campervan through the CVO, and have successfully done so. My camper is registered and classed as a camper however my only option is to ensure it as a van due to the 1.8m height requirement in the Motorhome Insurance Scheme. Insuring it as a van seems to me like a grey area and I have multiple times since tried in vain to insure it as a camper.

Dolmen say that their hands are tied by AXA and they cannot modify the policy with regards to their internal height requirement.

If you have any help in this area it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Stephen

A day later I got this response from the person in AXA:

Hi Stephen

I have spoken to our Underwriters, can you please call your broker ( Dolmens) again and ask to speak to [removed] who will review this for you.

Many Thanks

Rang Dolmen, got a quote and the rest is history

mikehn · 15-09-2014 1:21pm

stevire wrote: »

I contacted AXA on Twitter and a PR Specialist sent me a message to email them directly (i've removed their name/email):

A day later I got this response from the person in AXA:

Rang Dolmen, got a quote and the rest is history

Well done, I got hugh grief a couple of months ago going through brokers but never thought of going down your route.

Aidan_M_M · 16-09-2014 3:20pm

Marlow wrote: »

The cheaper VRT rate of 200 EUR for motor caravans over 3000 kg was done away with in 2012.

/M

where did you get that figure and date from?

Marlow · 17-09-2014 10:10am

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

where did you get that figure and date from?

When they dropped the 1.8m rule, there still was a rule in place, that meant, if the unladen weight of the camper was over 3000 kg, then the VRT was only 200 EUR. 13.3% if the unladen weight was under that.

A lot of people tried fiddling with things like filling the chassis with sand, etc. in the process of getting campers in with a GVW of 3500 kg but an unladen weight over 3000 kg, to save money on the VRT. The VRO on the other side made sure, that fuel tank was near empty when inspecting the camper. They were even emptying the water and waste tanks etc to bring you under 3000 kg.

The date is from recollection. I may be slightly off. But the rule was still in force, when the 1.8m rule was dropped in 2011. Pretty sure it disappeared, when they tightened the rules in the start of 2012. After that, there's only one VRT class for all motor caravans.

/M

Aidan_M_M · 18-09-2014 12:49pm

Marlow wrote: »

When they dropped the 1.8m rule, there still was a rule in place, that meant, if the unladen weight of the camper was over 3000 kg, then the VRT was only 200 EUR. 13.3% if the unladen weight was under that.

A lot of people tried fiddling with things like filling the chassis with sand, etc. in the process of getting campers in with a GVW of 3500 kg but an unladen weight over 3000 kg, to save money on the VRT. The VRO on the other side made sure, that fuel tank was near empty when inspecting the camper. They were even emptying the water and waste tanks etc to bring you under 3000 kg.

The date is from recollection. I may be slightly off. But the rule was still in force, when the 1.8m rule was dropped in 2011. Pretty sure it disappeared, when they tightened the rules in the start of 2012. After that, there's only one VRT class for all motor caravans.

/M

I see...
it was actually the end of 2010 when they went from E50 vrt on vehicles >3000kg . And you were allowed a full tank of diesel , legally , but empty elsewhere . How do you fill a chassis with sand? Genuine question?

re the trade and complaining about VRT , we have been anything but quiet , ourselves , and at least 4 other established motorhome dealers have been lobbying against the criminally high charges , for years , not just with the VRO and Applus , but taking it to any government representative we can find willing to listen.

The gist of it seems to be , that VRT is considered a local tax , and hence can be applied without contravening EU law .
What a fuppin' joke.

18-09-2014 12:57pm

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

How do you fill a chassis with sand? Genuine question?

Sand-blast into the rails from the loom/ventilation entrances I imagine. That'd help the rot no end soon as it gets damp. I'd be more concerned with how to get it out again afterwards.

stevire · 18-09-2014 1:03pm

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

How do you fill a chassis with sand? Genuine question?

Plenty of 'urban legend' stories of sandbags in the cupboards, temporary lead sheets under the van etc etc. I guess you could put sandbags in behind carpeted panels in the back of the van, that would be in the chassis?

18-09-2014 1:18pm

I've a friend with an MR-2 keeps a 40kg sand-bag in the boot (under bonnet) to make the steering work. :pac:

niloc1951 · 18-09-2014 5:56pm

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

................................................ VRT is considered a local tax , and hence can be applied without contravening EU law .
What a fuppin' joke.

It is a local tax and we have just got to suck it up. The real issue is how it's calculated.

1. It can based on a figure which bears no relationship to the real life Open Market Selling Price, and
2. It must be against all conventions and tax rules in that it is not determinable until after a purchase transaction has been closed.

I have been unable to find any accountant who knows of any other situation where the tax liability flowing from a transaction can not be pre-calculated and factored into the final cost of making the transaction.

moodrater · 18-09-2014 6:25pm

stevire wrote: »

Plenty of 'urban legend' stories of sandbags in the cupboards, temporary lead sheets under the van etc etc. I guess you could put sandbags in behind carpeted panels in the back of the van, that would be in the chassis?

Well local guy here used rolls of flashing to nudge his over but that was an xlwb sprinter so close enough. I worked oub i would have needed 16 rolls of lead to get mine over or half a cubic meter of sand so not really practical :pac:

Roneyc · 27-02-2015 12:08am

Hi all, just wondering if anyone successfully managed to change a low roof converted van from commercial to campervan on the taxbook since all this confusion began?

Also - what are the downsides of driving a converted van that is still commercial on the taxbook - asides from more expensive insurance?

reelkidmusic · 27-02-2015 8:26am

Roneyc wrote: »

Also - what are the downsides of driving a converted van that is still commercial on the taxbook - asides from more expensive insurance?

You will not be able to insure it as a camper van and if it is insured as a commercial, your insurance may not cover you in the event of an accident/claim.

stevire · 05-03-2015 11:28am

Roneyc wrote: »

Hi all, just wondering if anyone successfully managed to change a low roof converted van from commercial to campervan on the taxbook since all this confusion began?

No problems in converting the van with low roof over the last year or so once you have the conversion docs stamped by an SQI. You will be subject to VRT when going from commercial to camper.

airhead_eire · 05-03-2015 3:22pm

Mine is a low roof and insured for the last 3 to 4 years. A mate of mine also has a low roof Transporter with conversion and gets motorhome insurance.

moodrater · 14-03-2015 7:32pm

airhead_eire wrote: »

Mine is a low roof and insured for the last 3 to 4 years. A mate of mine also has a low roof Transporter with conversion and gets motorhome insurance.

Who's the insurance with?

Marlow · 19-03-2015 12:44am

The only ones that do low roof motorhome insurance in Ireland for new customers is the Motor Caravan Club of Ireland at this point.

All other insurances have withdrawn again as it was abused by certain individuals and only honour existing customers.

The Motor Caravan Club of Ireland will require that the conversion either was done by somebody they know does a decent conversion or they will require for their own engineer to inspect the conversion and that it has been done to a good and proper standard. Only when they are satisfied, that it is a proper campervan conversion and not just a 7 seater with a few units lobbed in, then they will insure you with a low roof.

/M

stevire · 19-03-2015 9:33am

Marlow wrote: »

The only ones that do low roof motorhome insurance in Ireland for new customers is the Motor Caravan Club of Ireland at this point.

All other insurances have withdrawn again as it was abused by certain individuals and only honour existing customers.

The Motor Caravan Club of Ireland will require that the conversion either was done by somebody they know does a decent conversion or they will require for their own engineer to inspect the conversion and that it has been done to a good and proper standard. Only when they are satisfied, that it is a proper campervan conversion and not just a 7 seater with a few units lobbed in, then they will insure you with a low roof.

/M

Not true, Dolmen still do it if you ring Axa and ask them to take it to the underwriters. See my post earlier in the thread.

moodrater · 19-03-2015 6:44pm

stevire wrote: »

Not true, Dolmen still do it if you ring Axa and ask them to take it to the underwriters. See my post earlier in the thread.

Do you have to apply and be refused by dolmen first?

Could you clarify the procedure please: the first post says "just ask the broker to take it to the underwriters" this one says "you ring Axa and ask them to take it to the underwriters"

stevire · 20-03-2015 10:55am

moodrater wrote: »

Do you have to apply and be refused by dolmen first?

Could you clarify the procedure please: the first post says "just ask the broker to take it to the underwriters" this one says "you ring Axa and ask them to take it to the underwriters"

Depends on who you get in the brokers and which broker we're talking about, they might do it on your behalf. No need for reference or refusal. I went straight to Axa in my case, told them my story; they were very helpful. All sorted within two days, they told me to ring Dolmen back and "ask to speak with X they will give you a quote now."

1.8 metre rule back

Comments