Mate Caught Drunk Behind the Wheel...

SGKM · 22-04-2007 5:13am #1

Basically I was out in town tonight with the lads and 1 of the lads was working late so he decided to drive in. When the clubs closed we all left and another one of the lads who was hammered drunk went out into the car and started the engine. He was revving the engine and a garda happened to be cycling by and arrested him. He had a urine or blood sample taken ( I wasnt around to see which it was) in the garda station and if it comes back positive he'll have acourt appearence!!

Does anyone know what the proceedure is for this situation. Hes 20 and has no driving licience (not even a provisional), no insurance and he cant even drive ( but obviously the gaurds dont know this when they arrested him) and he was quite drunk. Does anyone know what'll happen in this situation? Or has anyone been in a similar situation before?

Thanks.

DublinWriter · 22-04-2007 6:18am

SGKM wrote:

Does anyone know what the proceedure is for this situation. Hes 20 and has no driving licience (not even a provisional), no insurance and he cant even drive...

Yes. The procedure is to get a good solicitor. He's got a really good chance of catching some jail-time for that idiotic stunt.

milltown · 22-04-2007 7:12am

I doubt he'll get a stretch but he may get a ban and find it very hard when he goes looking for his first insurance.

22-04-2007 7:20am

Was the car on the public road or in a private car park at the time??

The police have to prove that he was actually driving the car (or intending to drive) imho for a successful (drink-drive) conviction.

He will likely get charged with being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle, potentially lethal if he had accidently slipped it into gear while revving the engine.

patrickc · 22-04-2007 8:51am

what was he doing behind the wheel pissed drunk anyhow? your mate who owned the car should of had more cop on...

whippet · 22-04-2007 8:53am

as long as he is drunk and in charge of the car he can be prosecuted !

sitting in the driver sea, engine on and the car revving he is in charge of the car.

I know of people who have been on the piss and slept in their cars but were sure to be sleeping in passenger seat with the keys in the glove box

liamo · 22-04-2007 9:11am

Here's an excellent page explaining it all in detail.

As it says, drink driving is "An offence of driving or attempting to drive ....".

Car started and engine revving? I can understand why the Garda reached the conclusion that he was "attempting to drive".

To be honest, I don't understand why he hasn't been done for driving without a license and insurance as well.

BostonB · 22-04-2007 9:11am

How did he get the keys?

louie · 22-04-2007 9:49am

I think he is going to be in a lot of trouble over this stunt.

drdre · 22-04-2007 10:13am

he might get banned as the government are really putting there foot doen on drink driving.I know he didnt drive the car but he did have the ignition on.Thats like saying a drunk was at the traffic light and got caught.he will still be banned.
Anyway he deserves it as he shouldnt be drinking that much that he doesnt know whats going on around him.And you friend who owns the car was a idiot to give him the keys

drdre · 22-04-2007 10:18am

liamo wrote:

Here's an excellent page explaining it all in detail.

As it says, drink driving is "An offence of driving or attempting to drive ....".

Car started and engine revving? I can understand why the Garda reached the conclusion that he was "attempting to drive".

To be honest, I don't understand why he hasn't been done for driving without a license and insurance as well.

Thats an excellent site, gives you all the information about points etc.

SGKM · 22-04-2007 10:19am

Thanks for the advice, I know that it was an absolutely stupid thing to do! The guy who owned the car was just coming out of the club and another one of the lads who didnt get into the nightclub was sitting in the passanger seat, so when my mate who got arrested came out he just hopped into the drivers seat. I dont know what possesed him to start the engine and start revving it!

His dad had to come into town to collect him at 3:00. I havent been speaking to him yet today, but I'll let you know what happened when I talk to him later.

zAbbo · 22-04-2007 10:24am

Hard to know what he'll get, I bet he feels very silly now.

SGKM · 22-04-2007 10:44am

Just to clarify, the car was parked on the side of a fairly busy street. So I guess that makes it worse that if it was a private carpark. The guard just happened to be cycling by at the time along the side of the road.

mike65 · 22-04-2007 11:03am

He's fupped all ends up.

Mike.

Wishbone Ash · 22-04-2007 11:05am

SGKM wrote:

So I guess that makes it worse that if it was a private carpark

It not so much "makes it worse" as it wouldn't have been an offence at all if the car was on private property.

Stark · 22-04-2007 11:09am

He'd better get himself a damn good solicitor.

Wishbone_Ash wrote:

It not so much "makes it worse" as it wouldn't have been an offence at all if the car was on private property.

I thought private property was the same thing legally speaking as a public road if the public had access? Private property would have to be something like a farm for him to get away with it.

PS: Someone didn't get in so you left him waiting in the car while you all went inside instead of going elsewhere? Add "being a bad friend" to the list of charges

SoBe · 22-04-2007 11:14am

mike65 wrote:

He's fupped all ends up.

Mike.

that would about cover it

endplate · 22-04-2007 11:26am

I hope he get's nothing more than a fine and a slap on the wrist as I don't think it sounds like he had any intention of driving. The Garda was right to arrest him as there could have been serious consequences if he didn't as the garda didn't know him from Adam.

Hopefully the Judge will be sympathetic if the evidence shows that it was a prank gone wrong

Guy:Incognito · 22-04-2007 11:51am

endplate wrote:

I hope he get's nothing more than a fine and a slap on the wrist as I don't think it sounds like he had any intention of driving.

Theres no way to now that he wouldnt have gotten it into his head to "do a quick lap of the block" as a "mess". The law is at is it and it's an ofence.He shouldnt have gone near the drivers seat of a car when drunk, let alone one parked on a busy street in the middle of town.

Marcus.Aurelius · 22-04-2007 11:51am

endplate wrote:

I hope he get's nothing more than a fine and a slap on the wrist as I don't think it sounds like he had any intention of driving. The Garda was right to arrest him as there could have been serious consequences if he didn't as the garda didn't know him from Adam.

Hopefully the Judge will be sympathetic if the evidence shows that it was a prank gone wrong

Sitting in the drivers seat, car engine on, revving the engine. I think he had every intent to drive. He was hardly going to sit there and rev for fun. He probably was too p**sed to set off more quickly.

Thank God these people are being caught.

endplate · 22-04-2007 12:03pm

The op says he doesn't know how to drive plus he's 20 so understandably a touch of madness hit him a big mistake on his behalf. I agree with the garda arresting him as I've already said. But he's doesn't deserve a prison sentence unless he has previous motoring convictions

SGKM · 22-04-2007 12:28pm

I know how it looks to the gaurds and sounds but I can assure you that there was absolutely no intention to drive. He cant even drive. I'd say that he was only revving the engine to p1ss off the lad who owned the car!

maidhc · 22-04-2007 12:44pm

SGKM wrote:

Does anyone know what the proceedure is for this situation. Hes 20 and has no driving licience (not even a provisional), no insurance and he cant even drive ( but obviously the gaurds dont know this when they arrested him) and he was quite drunk. Does anyone know what'll happen in this situation? Or has anyone been in a similar situation before?

I am too tired and hungover myself to remember the precise legislation (s50 of the RTA I think), but forget making an issue of it. He was caught, and it has been argued ad naseum in the courts, even as far as the Supreme Court in DPP v. Byrne. Once you are in the drivers seat, pissed, with the keys in the ignition you are fair game.

Indeed if you sleep in the car, with the keys somewhere in car, you may also be validly prosecuted, as it will be deemed you were in control of the vehicle.

He will probably escape on the insurance and licence issue, as he was not actually driving. Tell him talk to a solicitor on monday morning.

pburns · 22-04-2007 2:41pm

DublinWriter wrote:

He's got a really good chance of catching some jail-time for that idiotic stunt.

I doubt it very much but he is gonna be made suffer...

The guard was doing his duty in arresting this guy but I do have a lot of sympathy. We all (or most of us!) do foolish things when we are young. TBH I was once in a similar position myself a good few years ago. Went out to my friends car to get a jacket. Sat into the drivers seat, realised I was pissed and could easily lose the keys. I remember consciously deciding to put them in the ignition:o so I'd know where they were while I stretched across to retrive what i wanted from the back seat. It was only a couple of seconds and I left the drivers door open. I didn't start the car nor had I any intention of doing so.

Who should appear only a guard!

I was REALLY lucky - managed to talk my way out of it (plus the guard got a call about a disturbance while he was questioning me).

What the guy did here was a bit worse - he had the engine started and was revving it. The Guard was 100% correct to arrest him. However, like I said I do have sympathy. It's a lose-lose situation for all involved.

Spitfire666 · 22-04-2007 3:31pm

he has 10 days to produce driving licence and insurance that swhy he wasnt done for that at the same time but he could well be done for that when the urine/blood test result comes back.

Rudolph Claus · 22-04-2007 3:45pm

Spitfire666 wrote:

he has 10 days to produce driving licence and insurance that swhy he wasnt done for that at the same time but he could well be done for that when the urine/blood test result comes back.

But can he be done for driving without insurance if he wasnt actually "driving". I know he can be done for being in charge of the vehicle as he was but could they get him with the insurance issues under that charge too?

antodeco · 22-04-2007 6:13pm

We all do things when we're drunk without actually thinking it through. I remember about 10 years ago I was drunk (not legless, but had a few drinks). It was the middle of summer and me and my mates were sitting on a grass verge beside a carpark. I hopped into my mates car and put the keys in the ignition to turn on the radio. Zero intention of driving as I didnt have a clue how to drive. Guards showed up as I was sitting in the car. Luckily, they went to my mates first, and didnt see me in the car. Hopped out and wandered up as if I was off somewhere. These things happen. Sometimes you get caught innocently, but personally if I wouldve seen ME getting into that car, I wouldve called the guards.

Jo King · 22-04-2007 8:14pm

A competent legal professional would ask the court for disclosure of the Garda evidence and make a recommendation on a guilty or not-guilty plea. They would also negotiate with the Garda about dropping the other charges in return for a guilty plea on the "drunk in charge". After that it will be a fine and a ban. A custodial sentence will not be imposed for a first offence in this kind of situation. the level of fine will depend on the judge and the view he takes of the situation. A competent legal professional will know how to pitch the story to the particular judge involved. Many people get themselves in trouble while drunk and some judges are more sympathetic than others. Some proof of learning from the experience will usually help.

Victor · 22-04-2007 8:33pm

Nuttzy wrote:

But can he be done for driving without insurance if he wasnt actually "driving". I know he can be done for being in charge of the vehicle as he was but could they get him with the insurance issues under that charge too?

Legally, parking is part of driving.

Wishbone Ash · 22-04-2007 11:18pm

maidhc wrote:

s50 of the RTA I think

Section 49

(Hence the reason why drunk drivers are sometimes referred to as "forty niners").

galwaytt · 23-04-2007 12:03am

antodeco wrote:

We all do things when we're drunk without actually thinking it through.

no we don't, so speak for yourself.

antodeco · 23-04-2007 12:21am

Apologies, everyone I know has done something silly when they were drunk. In fairness, allowing yourself to actually get drunk is not common sense.

littlejukka · 23-04-2007 1:02am

endplate wrote:

The op says he doesn't know how to drive plus he's 20 so understandably a touch of madness hit him a big mistake on his behalf. I agree with the garda arresting him as I've already said. But he's doesn't deserve a prison sentence unless he has previous motoring convictions

endplate wrote:

blah blah.....he's 20....blah blah

at that age there's no defending such stupid behaviour.

Lorax · 23-04-2007 1:37am

Throw the book at him I say..

Mitch Connor · 23-04-2007 9:08am

Victor wrote:

Legally, parking is part of driving.

but is being parked? (Not parkING)

If i was in the car with my dad and one of my little brothers, then my dad went into a garage to get a drink or something, leaving the key in the ignition and the radio on - as he is doing this, my little bro, we'll say he is 5, hops into the front seat and pretends to be steering the car.

Should my little brother be brought to court for driving without a licence? Technically, he is in charge of the car, as the person was in the OP.

seamus · 23-04-2007 9:12am

I'd say a 20-year-old would have a tough time convincing a judge that he doesn't know how to drive the vehicle (at least in some basic capacity). I accept that he very well may not be able to, but he would be a rarity.

As someone else said, this has been argued to death in the courts, and it's generally accepted that being in charge of a vehicle (i.e. being behind the wheel and with keys or with engine on) is the same as driving it.

carpenoctem · 23-04-2007 9:23am

Tauren wrote:

If i was in the car with my dad and one of my little brothers, then my dad went into a garage to get a drink or something, leaving the key in the ignition and the radio on - as he is doing this, my little bro, we'll say he is 5, hops into the front seat and pretends to be steering the car.

Should my little brother be brought to court for driving without a licence? Technically, he is in charge of the car, as the person was in the OP.

Isn't that a bit of a bad example since if a parent let their 5 year old actually be in charge of a car surely they would be the ones facing the charge?

I hope everything goes all right for the friend in the orginal post though. As other people have said, better get a good lawyer because I should say there is a good argument for him intending to drive the car... but as others have said also, for a first time offense it should really only bring a fine and a ban. It might be a while yet until he can actually drive legally...

Mitch Connor · 23-04-2007 9:25am

carpenoctem wrote:

Isn't that a bit of a bad example since if a parent let their 5 year old actually be in charge of a car surely they would be the ones facing the charge?

Could my dad be brought to court over it then? And its also kinda my point, i don't think that unless you are driving, or have been seen to be driving, that you should get done for driving offences.

Wossack · 23-04-2007 9:30am

Tauren wrote:

Could my dad be brought to court over it then? And its also kinda my point, i don't think that unless you are driving, or have been seen to be driving, that you should get done for driving offences.

I think sitting in the drivers seat and making vroom vroom noises when you're 5 years old is a little different then starting the car, and revving the engine while drunk

if your 5 year old bro was to start the car and began revving the engine, I'd imagine the owner of the vehicle would be liable for some sort of offense also

i71jskz5xu42pb · 23-04-2007 9:46am

seamus wrote:

As someone else said, this has been argued to death in the courts, and it's generally accepted that being in charge of a vehicle (i.e. being behind the wheel and with keys or with engine on) is the same as driving it.

Well they are two separate sections of the road traffic act:
10 Prohibition on driving vehicle while under influence of intoxicant.
11 Prohibition on being in charge of vehicle while under influence of intoxicant.
It's debatable whether he'd get done for 10 but sitting in the car revving the engine definitely has him for section 11.

ZiabR · 23-04-2007 11:47am

BostonB wrote:

How did he get the keys?

I was thinking the same thing.

Spitfire666 · 23-04-2007 12:23pm

49 is drink driving, 50 is drunk in charge

then you have the driving licence and insurance offences,

the owner of the car can also be done for allowing a person to drive knowing that he/she has no licence or insurance.

Not likley to happen in this case but has happened before in other cases

Henry Ford III · 23-04-2007 12:56pm

A stupid thing to have done and whilst I have some degree of sympathy if he didn't/couldn't drive, the law is the law and he'll get done for this.

Too many people die because of drunk drivers.

Sam Vimes · 23-04-2007 2:26pm

drdre wrote:

he might get banned as the government are really putting there foot doen on drink driving.I know he didnt drive the car but he did have the ignition on.Thats like saying a drunk was at the traffic light and got caught.he will still be banned.
Anyway he deserves it as he shouldnt be drinking that much that he doesnt know whats going on around him.And you friend who owns the car was a idiot to give him the keys

you say he deserves to be prosecuted because "he shouldnt be drinking that much that he doesnt know whats going on around him". are you saying that people who drink a lot should be prosecuted?

galwaytt wrote:

no we don't, so speak for yourself.

so you think everything through carefully while drunk do you? that must be some weak alcohol you're drinking

Darragh29 · 23-04-2007 2:47pm

endplate wrote:

The op says he doesn't know how to drive plus he's 20 so understandably a touch of madness hit him a big mistake on his behalf. I agree with the garda arresting him as I've already said. But he's doesn't deserve a prison sentence unless he has previous motoring convictions

It isn't a requirement of the Road Traffic Act to be able to drive a vehicle in order to be guilty of drunk driving. Your buddy was probably more of a risk to the public because he couldn't drive than if he had been able to drive and not the other way around as you appear to be suggesting. If he managed to hit off the gearstick and put the car into gear, even if the handbrake was on, the car could take off in any direction and he would probably be unable to stop it.

Darragh29 · 23-04-2007 2:49pm

Henry Ford III wrote:

A stupid thing to have done and whilst I have some degree of sympathy if he didn't/couldn't drive, the law is the law and he'll get done for this.

Too many people die because of drunk drivers.

Why on earth have you sympathy for him because he says he can't drive? Can you remember the first time you drove a car??? Imagine that experience, the car conking out or else shooting forward in any direction and also being pissed drunk!

Sam Vimes · 23-04-2007 2:54pm

Darragh29 wrote:

Why on earth have you sympathy for him because he says he can't drive? Can you remember the first time you drove a car??? Imagine that experience, the car conking out or else shooting forward in any direction and also being pissed drunk!

well he wasn't driving it, he was sitting in it. if the car conked out while stationary the consequences wouldn't be that dire

Darragh29 · 23-04-2007 2:59pm

Commander Vimes wrote:

well he wasn't driving it, he was sitting in it. if the car conked out while stationary the consequences wouldn't be that dire

And what if it didn't conk out??? What if it jolted forward and put some pedestrian who just happened to be walking in front of the car through the nearest wall??? He admitted himself that his friend was sitting in the car and revving the engine, so the most likely outcome here if he accidentally put the car into gear would be that the car would have shot forward.

galwaytt · 23-04-2007 3:03pm

Commander Vimes wrote:

you say he deserves to be prosecuted because "he shouldnt be drinking that much that he doesnt know whats going on around him". are you saying that people who drink a lot should be prosecuted?

Yes, absolutely. Once it is a prospect that their intoxication is likely to impinge on anyone else's safety, via driving/riding, hell, even walking, they should absolutely get at least a ticket.

so you think everything through carefully while drunk do you? that must be some weak alcohol you're drinking

I'll take it as proven then: because.... I don't drink. There's no place in my life for it, because cars/bikes is what I do. They cannot co-exist.

galwaytt · 23-04-2007 3:04pm

Commander Vimes wrote:

well he wasn't driving it, he was sitting in it. if the car conked out while stationary the consequences wouldn't be that dire

...says who? You? It's not your call, TG...... jolting forward could pin a pedestrian against a wall/fence/bollard/other vehicle. Best case scenario: that person bruised. Worst case (child), dead. So, as long as the Garda are keeping that mindset off the road, they get my full support.

Mate Caught Drunk Behind the Wheel...

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