Asperger's in adults

EdgarAllenPoo · 18-12-2006 11:56pm #1

How likely is it that someone with (possible) Asperger's Syndrome could go into their twenties undiagnosed?

If in retrospect some signs were present in childhood (but not acted upon or attributed to something else) how would a person go about seeking treatment, I assume a GP is the first point of contact but what happens after that to determine whether or not the person has this condition?

Gibs · 19-12-2006 3:07pm

GDM wrote:

How likely is it that someone with (possible) Asperger's Syndrome could go into their twenties undiagnosed?

If in retrospect some signs were present in childhood (but not acted upon or attributed to something else) how would a person go about seeking treatment, I assume a GP is the first point of contact but what happens after that to determine whether or not the person has this condition?

It is quite possible. I've come across several people in that situation. Several options for diagnosis: GP can be a good starting point in order to source an appropriate referral route. After that, a typical route is to attend a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist in order to determine whether or not any diagnosis applies. In ideal circumstances it could be a multi-disciplinary team but that's difficult to find :rolleyes:

A typical diagnostic process will usually involve the use of one or more psychometric tools (standardised questionnaires usually - the GADS [Gilliam Asperger's Disorder Scale] is a typical example), a detailed clinical interview with both the person and, ideally, with someone who knows them well. Someone who obtains a diagnosis of Asperger's should have a presentation that satisfies the criteria outlined in either DSM-IV-TR or ICD-10 (google them for more info).

Try to find someone who has a lot of experience with diagnosing Asperger's and who uses a comprehensive evaluation procedure. There are some individuals working in the field who have been known to hand out diagnoses of Asperger's very easily, without necessarily going through a detailed, standardised assessment process. Personally I would suggest a clinical psychologist, as they tend to use standardised tools, but then I'm probably biased

Not sure what you mean by treatment. Many people who are diagnosed live very independent lives and have homes, jobs, relationships etc. The old cliche is that the halls of Oxford and cambridge are full of those with Asperger's. There is a school of thought that says that Asgerger's should not be seen as something to 'treat'. Social and communication difficulties are common however, and it is possible to improve skills in these areas if required. Good info available from here and a list of professionals in Ireland who do this kind of work can be found here

The Black Oil · 19-12-2006 3:22pm

It is definitely possible and does happen, particularly given that there was no NEPS in existence when said adults were young. Sometimes people aren't picked up until they reach college level and contact the counselling service or something like that. Sadly, there are very very few specific resources for adults with AS in this country. TCD is running the AS Project (no website) again this year geared at adults, not sure if you have to be a student though you probably need a diagnosis. I agree with Gibs' comment re: 'trreatment'.

I suppose the GP is one route although it's not a medical condition, you'd need to contact a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist as Gibs has said. Asssessment can take about 1.5 - 2 hours, background history would be needed from parents re: language development and childhood information. There's a few things, the Autistic Spectrum Quotient and Autistic Diagnostic Inventory Revised that may be used in the interview.

It is possible to have a few traits but not actually have the condition, I think it or any condition may only be really diagnosed if it affects the person negatively though I could have that arseways.

EdgarAllenPoo · 19-12-2006 8:58pm

I'm aware that there is no treatment for Asperger's but that there are certain things that can be done to help a person with the condition eg. helping them cope with their daily life and improve their social skills.

One thing I would query is how negatively a diagnosis of asperger's would affect a person's chances of employment given that some people may have a mental illness stigma in relation to the condition.

Gibs · 19-12-2006 9:29pm

The Black Oil wrote:

... particularly given that there was no NEPS in existence when said adults were young. .

As far as I know, NEPS (National Educational Psychology Service) still won't diagnose anything that looks remotely like it might be an ASD, though I am open to correction on that...;)

The Black Oil · 19-12-2006 9:30pm

Yeah, social skills interventions and daily living skills can be taught.

I think I've seen it quoted in National Autistic Society (UK) literature that only about 12% of people with the condition find full time permanent jobs but to some extent you have to say to hell with the statistics. I'm not sure it's something you'd be obliged to disclose, maybe it would be better in the long run. For some it's quite 'hidden', they may just be seen as shy or quiet whereas in others it may be more overt.

If someone gets a diagnosis they could ask their psychologist to write a letter that might be suitable for an employer - outlining the condition and some supports that may be useful.

Edit: Gibs, you're probably right, probably a multidisciplinary approach is needed for such a diagnosis, from NEPS' standpoint anyway.

taztastic · 23-12-2006 2:02am

I think this is something that to get checked out if you're concerned about it. Even if someone does get a diagnosis they dont need to disclose it to anyone they don't want to. The assessment might well rule out Aspergers or show up another condition with similar behavioural effects.
I would be a bit cautious about relying on your GP since they might not be fully aware of diagnositic criteria or the behavioural and environmental implications of the condition.
As far as I'm aware NEPS don't touch ASD with a barge pole. But I have met some Ed Psych's who work in the area. I know in the North where I'm training that Ed Psych's are hugely involved in autism and that there are services that diagnose adolescents or adults.

Kevster · 25-12-2006 12:43am

I'm 23 and have been diagnosed with Asperger's. My childhood was miserable partly due to the fact that this went undiagnosed until a few months ago. I started going to a counsellor in college first, then my GP, then a psychiatrist, and then a therapist. The GP was the one that referred me to the psychiatrist - That was the biggest step. Before going to see him/her ensure that you have clear mental notes of your symptoms. I maintain a file on my computer that is a manifest of my symptoms. ALL of these symptoms are related to Asperger's - The syndrome defines me perfectly.

Having Asperger's makes life very tough but it can be good also. Academically I excel in everything because I am studying something that is of interest to me. It also helps in work situations because I become completely focused to the task at hand and aim to complete everything to perfection. The downside is, of course, the social aspect - I find it extremely difficult.

Getting the diagnosis was a big help. I would research the syndrome more however in order to be sure that it describes you. Oh, and be completely open and honest about your symptoms. I purposefully failed to tell my psychiatrist many things about me because I honestly thought that he would think I was insane. Once I discovered Asperger's Syndrome I became more open about who I was.

Take care my friend,
Kevin.

Kevster · 25-12-2006 12:46am

GDM wrote:

I'm aware that there is no treatment for Asperger's but that there are certain things that can be done to help a person with the condition eg. helping them cope with their daily life and improve their social skills.

One thing I would query is how negatively a diagnosis of asperger's would affect a person's chances of employment given that some people may have a mental illness stigma in relation to the condition.

True, there is no defined treatment. I am however taking anti-depressants and have regular visits to a Cognitive Behavioural Therapist. These help but only to a point. Life is very difficult. It doesn't help when I also have Ulcerative Collitis and Raynaud's Syndrome

...each day I feel like crying.

taztastic · 26-12-2006 11:59pm

The downside is, of course, the social aspect - I find it extremely difficult.

That must be tough Kevster. Can your college offer you some support in this respect?

Kevster · 27-12-2006 9:33pm

Thanks for asking.

The college only has a general counselling service which is good enough I suppose. However, I don't avail of that considering I have a Therapist, Psychiatrist, and GP with whom I have good relations with outside of college. At the start of each academic year I inform my year-head of what is going on with me though - He/she usually tells the other lecturers.

I hope you're getting on okay yourself.

Take care,
Kevin.

snorlax · 28-12-2006 1:05am

[The Black Oil]It is definitely possible and does happen, particularly given that there was no NEPS in existence when said adults were young. Sometimes people aren't picked up until they reach college level and contact the counselling service or something like that. Sadly, there are very very few specific resources for adults with AS in this country. TCD is running the AS Project (no website) again this year geared at adults, not sure if you have to be a student though you probably need a diagnosis.

i was involved in this as it's one of the projects of the peer support network in tcd, and yes you do need to be a student, and PSN volunteers have to be trained etc (30hours of training and lecture) before they are paired up with a student with aspergers who help teach them social skills cues. sometimes the student gets two volunteers. im not involved with it this year so im not sure it's going ahead but i can give you a contact.

Kevster · 07-01-2007 10:57am

Hi,

I just thought this might interest ye (The story hits home and has shaken me a bit):

The daughter of songwriter Burt Bacharach and actress Angie Dickinson has committed suicide. She was an Aspie like you and I and was 40 years old. Her interests were kittens, earthquakes, meteor showers, blue skies, sunsets, and Tahiti amongst other things.

I don't really know what else to say.

Kevin.

Kevster · 07-01-2007 3:02pm

All I wanted this Christmas was some time alone but I haven't got that. I am now majorly pissed-off and highly stressed going into college tomorrow. It appears that I will have-to live alone in the future but with that comes intense loneliness and depression. There is no easy way out of this and I perfectly understand why that woman killed herself. It is something that (I'm sure) many Aspies have thought about in the past, including myself.

Kevin.

The Black Oil · 07-01-2007 6:41pm

Read about her on BBC Online.:( RIP. As far as I know levels of depression and anxiety tend to be higher amongst those with AS/ASDs than other members of the population so I wouldn't be surprised if they had suicidal thoughts. The isolation and social difficulties probably feed into it too.

Kevster · 07-01-2007 7:27pm

You're correct: I'm an Aspie and I have suicidal thoughts throughout every day - Literally. We (Aspies) tend to use our English words correctly too so when I say literally I mean LITERALLY. I am a moderator on a psychological help forum and the Asperger's section is full of posts by depressed individuals including myself.

Take care,
Kevin.

The Black Oil · 07-01-2007 9:36pm

I would imagine it's tricky enough finding support from professionals who have experience working with people who have the condition, professionals who understand depression, anxiety and AS rolled into one I mean.

taztastic · 07-01-2007 11:22pm

All I wanted this Christmas was some time alone but I haven't got that.

Thats a really interesting point. I never thought of all the Christmas chaos being a stressor for someone who finds social interactions difficult. Seems obvious now I write it. It must be incredibly difficult to balance having company to prevent lonliness but having space to be by yourself.
Just a thought but does family therapy have a role to play here?

Kevster · 08-01-2007 5:44pm

I am unsure what you mean exactly by family therapy. My family are fully aware of what is 'wrong' with me and they try to help me. However, they don't fully understand the way I think so their attempts to help are usually in vain. I am returning to my CB Therapist on Friday so she will help me I'm sure.

Take care,
Kevin.

cathy01 · 14-01-2007 5:26pm

Dear Kevin
I have just read your post.
We have been told that a family member has AS.
I can not believe you are liveing your life like that.

I hope the folowing will be of help for you.

The North Fingal
Autism and Aspergers Support Group

A new support group for family affected by Autism and Aspergers syndrome will meet on

DATE: Wednesday 31 January

TIME: 7 O' clock

VENUE: Bracken Court Hotel Balbriggan Co. Dublin

It’s hoped that people can get together and discuss their concerns around the condition and share experiences and learn from each other. Feel free to just come along on the night.

For more information please contact
Tina Collins or Fiona Halligan
At FADE CIL, phone 8417685.

*This event is kindly sponsored by The Bracken Court Hotel.

maybe see you there .
Believe me, honestly , what you have posted has mnade a difference.

cathy

Kevster · 14-01-2007 7:53pm

cathy01 wrote:

Believe me, honestly , what you have posted has mnade a difference.

That's very touching - Thank you. I will consider the meeting.

Kevin.

The Black Oil · 15-01-2007 12:10am

http://www.tcd.ie/disability/information/for_staff/supporting_students_with_aspergers.php TCD has some useful info on supporting students wth AS in the pdf on that page.

That meeting sounds good.

Kevster · 15-01-2007 11:04pm

I remember reading that PDF about half-a-year ago (My mam printed it off for me). TCD is the only college I have encountered that appears to be aware of Asperger's Syndrome as a real threat to a student's well-being.

...Top Marks to you, TCD

21-02-2007 8:35pm

I know this topic is over a month old at this stage but I wanted to get my bit into it.

I suspect myself that I have AS, and therefore went on the route to see a clinical psychologist. However he's point blank refusing to assess me since he doesn't want to put a label on me. In my opinion a lot of the signs are there, some are very blatantly obvious, I'd just like to get some closure on the argument.

The Black Oil · 21-02-2007 9:01pm

Do you want to say what it is about you that you think 'fits' in terms of AS? Have you looked at Aspire's site, they have some details on diagnosis.

21-02-2007 9:55pm

The Black Oil wrote:

Do you want to say what it is about you that you think 'fits' in terms of AS?

Yeah sure,

At school I was considered a "gifted child" and went to a club in Marino College for a few months regarding it. So I was considered to be top of the class for many years. I was bullied all through my schooling.

My motor skills are very poor, often lose my balance for no logical reason. I can't catch a ball, or anything else thrown at me for that matter. I feel very clumsy at playing sports and have no interest in them either.
While on the subject of interests, mine are very narrow, mainly in the electronics area. Computers, mobile phones and television/radio (the transmitter networks and sites, frequency tables, satellites... rather than the programming) are the main ones. I also find myself examining train timetables and the specifications of the Iarnród Éireann locomotives and rolling stock. It's my ambition to become a train driver in future but I am wondering if I do have AS if it would affect that ambition.

Socially, I get on much better with people older than me. I never maintain eye contact when talking to someone, I feel scared to do it. I can't see the funny side in jokes and often take them very personally. I often can't think of anything to say to people my own age because I don't feel they like the same things I do. But I do sometimes bore people by excessively talking about my interests. Finally, I spend a lot of time alone effectively talking to myself - in my head, not out loud.

I have no desire to work except in what I want to do. That is one thing where I believe my psychologist is putting the cart before the horse. He wants me to get some work before we start a cognitive therapy process (which in itself I wouldn't mind doing) but I suspect that my current mentality is actually preventing me from working. I had a job up to last week but left because the boss was mean to me... I lasted 2½ weeks. He kept telling me to look at him when he was talking to me, but as I said above, I can't.

That's about all I can think of at the moment.

Myksyk · 21-02-2007 10:49pm

Karsini wrote:

... my psychologist is putting the cart before the horse. He wants me to get some work before we start a cognitive therapy process

What was his rationale for this?

21-02-2007 10:57pm

Myksyk wrote:

What was his rationale for this?

I think he feels I'm in a comfort zone and I should break out of it to improve my mood (though that's partially the reason why I'm seeing him in the first place).

Myksyk · 21-02-2007 11:18pm

Ok .. not unreasonable ... the emotional, behavioural and cognitive 'systems' are so intertwined. However, I would explore with him the possibility of work on your cognitive life right now on the basis that it is demonstrably interfering with your ability source/hold down a job. More specifically he could address the social anxiety aspects of your problems by looking at something like your difficulty in maintaining eye contact which has had a recent and very real effect on your maintaining a job. This would be a specific arena within which you could explore habitual cognitive patterns and their behavioural and emotional effects. It would act as an example of how to address broader issues and would start the ball rolling in terms of the cognitive therapy part of the work.

However, your psychologist has a lot more information than us so I'd take his opinion more seriously than any of our tuppence-ha'penny worths!

Good luck with it.

The Black Oil · 22-02-2007 12:30am

I would hope that if someone had AS it wouldn't negatively impact on their ambition and chances of becoming a train driver or whatever career they were interested in though I understand there are certain careers they might not be at all suitable for.

Socially, I get on much better with people older than me. I often can't think of anything to say to people my own age because I don't feel they like the same things I do.

Different wavelength?

But I do sometimes bore people by excessively talking about my interests.

Well if you can take a positive from that it's that you perhaps recognise when people have stopped listening properly and you've gone on too much. Can you read body language and other signs that may indicate what you've mentioned?

If you go for a proper assessment you'll probably need information about your childhood from your parents. Late diagnosis is not uncommon by the way.

Good luck.

22-02-2007 12:39am

The Black Oil wrote:

Can you read body language and other signs that may indicate what you've mentioned?

Body language never really meant anything to me, that's about the only way I could explain it.

Asperger's in adults

Comments