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Court orders demolition of family home.

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    #92
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    bytey wrote: »
    50 quid it goes up in flames due to bad wiring at some stage ;)
    Maybe it will get flooded due to dodgy plumbing.:p


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    #93
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    bytey wrote: »
    50 quid it goes up in flames due to bad wiring at some stage ;)

    The dodgy plumbing will probably put the fire out though.

    Edit. Beaten to the dodgy plumbing joke. Drat.


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    #94
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Zen65 wrote: »
    I believe you are being sarcastic, Stinicker. Am I right?


    Love humour,

    Z

    Wrong, as a firm Conservative Laissez Faire beleiver I favour minimal government intervention in our lifes and let every man stand on his own two feet and each man for himself in todays world. Marxism is the greatest threat we face today and another part of our freedom died today when John Gormley got the Wildlife Bill passed. The day will come though when the left will be crushed with such force that history will remember it for the next thousand years.


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    #95
    ricman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭ricman


    One reason we need a planning system is to build proper services ,transport
    ,shops ,schools ,water supplys,sewer systems there needs to be x amount of houses in an area.AND we need a planning system to protect the environment and run an energy effecient society.Good planning means people should not have to drive long distances to work ,school ,shops and more people will uses buses or the luas .
    that house is like an hummer car , ridiculously large, grossly ineffecient in terms of cost per person and damaging to the environment.
    this country cannot afford to offer proper services if houses are just
    built anywhere in a random fashion.
    a family needs schools ,services etc no man is an island.
    One of the reason this country is in crisis is cos of rich elites ,bankers ,overpaid civil servants
    just thinking of this this years bonus ,getting a nice pension package set up ,ie no long term
    view or concern for the public or the good of the country , ie ill do what i want .
    ie the rules do not apply to me.THIS house is a symbol of that attitude.


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    #96
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    ricman wrote: »
    One reason we need a planning system is to build proper services ,transport
    ,shops ,schools ,water supplys,sewer systems there needs to be x amount of houses in an area.AND we need a planning system to protect the environment and run an energy effecient society.Good planning means people should not have to drive long distances to work ,school ,shops and more people will uses buses or the luas .
    that house is like an hummer car , ridiculously large, grossly ineffecient in terms of cost per person and damaging to the environment.
    this country cannot afford to offer proper services if houses are just
    built anywhere in a random fashion.
    a family needs schools ,services etc no man is an island.

    The Luas, have you ever been outside the Pale? Damaging to the Environment care to explain?


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    #97
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Wrong, as a firm Conservative Laissez Faire beleiver I favour minimal government intervention in our lifes and let every man stand on his own two feet and each man for himself in todays world. Marxism is the greatest threat we face today and another part of our freedom died today when John Gormley got the Wildlife Bill passed. The day will come though when the left will be crushed with such force that history will remember it for the next thousand years.

    The Greens are no more Marxist than the Pope. The fact that they brought a bill into effect that would essentailly stop a load of feckin eejits chasing a stag around fields, however, is hardly a bad thing.

    And as for Laissez Faire Conservatives... aren't they the ones who, during the Irish famine, argued that for the British government to supply free food for the Irish would violate natural law?

    They're nice people. I wanna be one of them.


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    #98
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    ricman wrote: »
    One reason we need a planning system is to build proper services ,transport
    ,shops ,schools ,water supplys,sewer systems there needs to be x amount of houses in an area.AND we need a planning system to protect the environment and run an energy effecient society.Good planning means people should not have to drive long distances to work ,school ,shops and more people will uses buses

    Or sh1t that's never gonna happen in...
    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Meath


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    #99
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Stinicker wrote: »
    The day will come though when the left will be crushed with such force that history will remember it for the next thousand years.

    Youre just looking to get the thread Godwinned arent you !


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    #100
    bernardo mac
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭bernardo mac


    The family would not have encountered such problems in County Wexford.:rolleyes:


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    #101
    Dohnny Jepp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Dohnny Jepp


    The Davestator wrote: »
    I dont understand how you can have zero sympathy for a family having to demolish their home?:confused:

    Yes, he was stupid, but a sizeable charity donation or community service would serve more purpose than the cost of knocking it down etc.

    There's far bigger crooks in this counrty than this fella who are getting away with a lot worse...

    Yeah, but lets say they don't knock it down and just fine the guy. What happens next is every chancer who was refused planning permission will just go and do the same thing and think "hey well if that guy got away with it. . ."


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    #102
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Dohnny Jepp wrote: »
    Yeah, but lets say they don't knock it down and just fine the guy. What happens next is every chancer who was refused planning permission will just go and do the same thing and think "hey well if that guy got away with it. . ."

    There's every chance of it & what's more, legally, it sets a precedence which would essentially let people build whatever the hell they want, then essentially get away with it a pay off.

    In that way, those who can afford to do so, can ignore the laws that everyone else has to comply with.


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    #103
    Skinfull
    Registered Users Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭Skinfull


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Sulmac wrote: »
    did the they think they were above the law?

    Tolerance = ZERO

    Sometimes the law can be an ass. :p

    So's you're face.
    Black and white issue here. They were told NO, they bult anyway, now they are told to demolish. Tough **** paddy, thats what ya get.


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    #104
    Dohnny Jepp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Dohnny Jepp


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    There's every chance of it & what's more, legally, it sets a precedence which would essentially let people build whatever the hell they want, then essentially get away with it a pay off.

    In that way, those who can afford to do so, can ignore the laws that everyone else has to comply with.

    Well I'm not sure if it would set a legal precedence. The precedence would only be set if they let him off. If say they fined him 20 cent, that wouldn't restrict them to using the exact same type of punishment or a fine of the same value for the next case.. . . . I think:o


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    #105
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    collegegal wrote: »
    So basically your saying "**** the law, do what you want because you have a few quid". Its people like you and the family in question that have themselves in situations like this.

    Now he has no money they want sympathy.

    Who the feck builds a 6,500 sq. ft. house though? Typical excesses of the Bubble economy.

    If this was in England or Northern Ireland, there would be no hope in hell of him getting a 24 month suspension. It'd never have got built in the first place. Shows you the difference in the mentalities. The chancer is respected and sympathised with here. Now people know why Bertie got re-elected.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #106
    Butch Cassidy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭Butch Cassidy


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    According to 6/1 news he is currently barely able to find work and was given 2 years to remove the property. The state will probably end up having to house himand his family at taxpayers expense.

    Such is the level of thinking in our society really. There's a gigantic housing list with people shifted into B&Bs and hostels ad hoc yet the state goes ahead and demolishes a building people can live in. Much like the ghost estates we all know too well about. Progressive ideas just do not prevail in our country.

    The house is built so we are we are. Knocking it down is greatly immoral and a worse wrong than yr man going above the law/giving two fingers/defying authority etc. Sure punish them, remove them from the house and repossess it by all means but demolishing it? Christ, we really see we our priorities are don't we? Nothing about the punishment fitting the crime at all....


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Perhaps the brown envelope didn't have enough cash in it. It's always a problem knowing how much to give them. You win some, you lose some.

    Quite true. Sometimes you can give too much. Usually €5k at a digout gathering for mates is good enough to get a "I'll look after you" nod and a wink from youknowwho. See in this case the man probably didn't keep up his payments and possibly was handing over the wrong currency!
    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    That's just to put a sympathetic angle on the story. This tool went outside the laws, he didn't just build a house without planning permission, he applied for permission for a house and when he was refused he stuck two fingers up at the system and built a house twice the size. Was he thinking about his family then? How did he actually fund this build? He couldn't have had a mortgage as planning permission would have been needed. Did he think that because he had the money he could do what he wanted?


    Ah Tom, poor Tom, c'mere. Have you any idea about the people who went above the laws, stuck two fingers up at us and destroyed our country?

    I love how RTE can focus on this stuff and let the Anglo sharks and hounds off lightly. No reports on the property tycoons that owe hundreds of millions that aren't put in jail for non-payment of loans.


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    #107
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Butch Cassidy wrote: »
    Such is the level of thinking in our society really. There's a gigantic housing list with people shifted into B&Bs and hostels ad hoc yet the state goes ahead and demolishes a building people can live in. Much like the ghost estates we all know too well about. Progressive ideas just do not prevail in our country.

    The house is built so we are we are. Knocking it down is greatly immoral and a worse wrong than yr man going above the law/giving two fingers/defying authority etc. Sure punish them, remove them from the house and repossess it by all means but demolishing it? Christ, we really see we our priorities are don't we? Nothing about the punishment fitting the crime at all....

    You only do it for a few houses, then the chancers cop on the risk isn't worth it and don't do it anymore.


    Butch Cassidy wrote:

    Quite true. Sometimes you can give too much. Usually €5k at a digout gathering for mates is good enough to get a "I'll look after you" nod and a wink from youknowwho. See in this case the man probably didn't keep up his payments and possibly was handing over the wrong currency!




    Ah Tom, poor Tom, c'mere. Have you any idea about the people who went above the laws, stuck two fingers up at us and destroyed our country?

    I love how RTE can focus on this stuff and let the Anglo sharks and hounds off lightly. No reports on the property tycoons that owe hundreds of millions that aren't put in jail for non-payment of loans.

    There needs to be a whole sea change in attitude in this country, particularly the "well, it is ok for them attitude". That perpetuates the problem.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #108
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Butch Cassidy;

    You are confusing too many issues here - the housing lists, the ghost estates, alleged back handers & the legal issues are all valid debating points, but they have nothing to do with this case.

    The simple facts in this case are;

    - the applied previously for planning & were refused, possibly on the grounds that the application was for a house too big or too unsuitable for the area & available services

    - despite that, they ignored the refusal & went ahead and built a house twice the size of the originally refused application, a 588m.sq "mansion" - 3 times larger than the average reasonably sized 4 bedroom family home.

    You simply cannot build something of that size & expect the council to grant retention permission. If you do so, you are an idiot, no way round it. You might get away with building a shed or garage that's a bit too large, but at the back of your house, but not a big, f*ck off house that is a blot on the landscape.

    It is unfortunate that this happened, but they really only have themselves to blame for their utter arrogance & stupidity and were very luck that the judge allowed them a 2 year stay of execution.


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    #109
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Doop


    Butch Cassidy wrote: »
    Christ, we really see we our priorities are don't we? Nothing about the punishment fitting the crime at all....

    How does this punishment not fit the crime???? :confused:
    He built something illegal now has to take it down.... makes perfect sense

    If you demolish something you shouldn't of, you get ordered to re-instate
    eg http://www.independent.ie/national-news/convent-demolition-may-cost-firm-8364127m-1254229.html

    Our planing laws are far from perfect, but they are there for the greater good.


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    #110
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,092 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    starbelgrade wrote: »
    You simply cannot build something of that size & expect the council to grant retention permission. If you do so, you are an idiot, no way round it. You might get away with building a shed or garage that's a bit too large, but at the back of your house, but not a big, f*ck off house that is a blot on the landscape.
    I'd love to agree but I can think of two houses nearby to me in dublin that were refused PP, were built anyway, really stick out and are still standing.

    I think this guy was very foolish and figured "ah shuure wont they leave it" as for so long stuff was ignored in our planning laws. Though we're not nearly as bad as some of our european neighbours.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #111
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Butch Cassidy wrote: »
    .... Have you any idea about the people who went above the laws, stuck two fingers up at us and destroyed our country?

    I love how RTE can focus on this stuff and let the Anglo sharks and hounds off lightly. No reports on the property tycoons that owe hundreds of millions that aren't put in jail for non-payment of loans.
    If this is meant to be an arguement for leniency, it's a very very poor one.


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    #112
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,536 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Stinicker wrote: »
    if you got money then you should be allowed build what you want

    So, I can sell my house in Dublin, buy land next door to you and build a by products factory? Set up a halting site? Build a hipy commune? Build a fook off horrible mansion.... Cop on Stinicker. You can't just build what you want cause you own the land, that will never work.


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    #113
    tbh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,914 ✭✭✭✭tbh


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    50% Idiot Tax will be introduced in the next budget.

    we already have an idiot tax. It's called the lotto.


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    #114
    skywalker_208
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭skywalker_208


    If he was allowed get away with this what is to stop anyone building any house they want anywhere they want?
    Examples have to be made to show planning permission means just that... getting PERMISSION


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    #115
    Lando Griffin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,952 ✭✭✭Lando Griffin


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    He should get it insured and then set it on fire. :D

    I doubt it could be insured as no planning permission was granted. It would probably be like him to start the fire from a leaking has rise that he installed. How did he get connected to water and Electric if he had no planning, I thought the ESB were strict enough on procedures.


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    #116
    skywalker_208
    Registered Users Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭skywalker_208


    Lando Griffin wrote: »
    How did he get connected to water and Electric if he had no planning, I thought the ESB were strict enough on procedures.

    ESB do not ask for planning details. All you need to send them is your application form and a cert from your electrician.
    He likely has his own well and sewerage system so didnt need connecting to any local infrastructure.


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    #117
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    So, I can sell my house in Dublin, buy land next door to you and build a by products factory? Set up a halting site? Build a hipy commune? Build a fook off horrible mansion.... Cop on Stinicker. You can't just build what you want cause you own the land, that will never work.

    Or a massive pork fat rendering plant.

    Everyone needs pork fat.


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    #118
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    ricman wrote: »
    One reason we need a planning system is to build proper services ,transport
    ,shops ,schools ,water supplys,sewer systems there needs to be x amount of houses in an area.AND we need a planning system to protect the environment and run an energy effecient society.Good planning means people should not have to drive long distances to work ,school ,shops and more people will uses buses or the luas .

    You had me to here. Absolutely correct on all points. Then you said...
    that house is like an hummer car , ridiculously large, grossly ineffecient in terms of cost per person and damaging to the environment.


    This I disagree with. The size of the house is pretty irrelevant. In fact the only way it would be relevant was if it was a small one person cottage he built. Then the cost per person would increase. As for damaging to the environment, most houses are damaging to the environment. I dont believe the amount of damage caused increases significantly as the size increases.
    this country cannot afford to offer proper services if houses are just
    built anywhere in a random fashion.
    a family needs schools ,services etc no man is an island.

    Again, absolutely correct, planning laws need to be in place, but they have gotten a bit ridiculous in recent years. The planning application should be the location of the building, the dimensions, and the general style of the house. Planning regulations that the distance from the stairs to the door must be a certain amount, and kitchen windows can be no taller than the height of the youngest child(slight exageration) are silly and needless, and when laws are silly and needless people give them less respect, and the people who implement them even less respect.


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    #119
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    skywalker_208 wrote: »
    If he was allowed get away with this what is to stop anyone building any house they want anywhere they want?
    Examples have to be made to show planning permission means just that... getting PERMISSION

    Look around you! People have been building houses anywhere they want. A few brown envelopes are all it takes. the planning laws in Ireland are ridiculous, and the planning authority corrupt.


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    #120
    bernardo mac
    Registered Users Posts: 903 ✭✭✭bernardo mac


    Get to know a number of councillors[usually FF/FG]is still a means to a building end


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    #121
    pandadonn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭pandadonn


    I have to say I do feel sorry for them but hey thats the sad country we live in the w*****s that have caused us all to work twice as hard to live than we had to two/three years ago are lieing on a beach in spain probably, knowing they will never have to answer or pay for the state of the country yet some twat in a wig can do this. having said that I cannot see how he was able to get away with it as we got planning for a small conversion at our home and it was inspected twice during building, so maybe there is more to this story!!!! :)


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