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Occupation of Anglo-Irish Bank

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Comments

  • #52
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Look, I'm just as much in favour of removing the clowns in government from that position as you are. Protests about NAMA or Anglo aren't going to bring that about. We need to wait for the General Election and vote them out.

    In the meantime, kicking up a fuss does very little beyond giving the Indo something other than the actual problems something to write about.

    That sounds backwards to me.

    Firstly, since they're wrecking the economy, we shouldn't have to wait until the next General Election.

    Secondly, the "actual problems" ARE NAMA & Anglo. And the reason they ARE "the clowns in government" is BECAUSE they've landed us with those two millstones.


  • #53
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Firstly, since they're wrecking the economy, we shouldn't have to wait until the next General Election.

    Exactly. Saving Anglo seems to be their number one priority in government at the moment to the detriment of everything else. Their jobs policy is non-existant, ideas like using the pension reserve fund to build critical infrastructure are being ignored, the HSE is a bloated mess, public service reform is going nowhere, then there's NAMA and all the rubbish we're aquiring from failed developers. The list of problems is endless and the government has no solution to any of them. They need to go before they ruin things completely.


  • #54
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That sounds backwards to me.

    Firstly, since they're wrecking the economy, we shouldn't have to wait until the next General Election.

    You wouldn't be suggesting people protest, strike and take over buildings until they go, would you?


  • #55
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    The protesters aren't paid a couple of hundred grand to investigate a more workable view.

    If a non-white-collar criminal robs you, do you now need to "suggest an alternative" as to how he should pay for his drug habit before you can protest at his actions ?

    This is thing like, it isn't as if NAMA is an unpalatable but necessary step that all agree should be brought in. Being anti-NAMA and demanding it be scrapped isn't a case of lefty-headbangers not living in reality either. The fact is that before NAMA occurred you had nearly every leading economist in this country screaming opposition to it, you had internationally renowned economists also pointing out the pure injustice of using public wealth to shore up private profiteers. These people were even speaking outside of a left-right divide, some of the most ardent capitalists such as Gurdgiev were even deriding it. The only people perpetuating it were a couple of government lackeys and a media lauding St Lenihan for "taking the tough decisions" and all of that b*llocks.

    What NAMA boils down to is that the wealth of the people, accumulated via our work and taxes is now being pumped in to secure the excesses of a minority who used this country as a f*cking financial playground for a decade. As the saying goes, "privatisation of profit and nationalisation of debt."
    they are certainly not the ones to lead a campaign in the real "us vs them" - the haves and have-nots.

    Éirigi was founded because they were a group of Republicans who believed that that ideology had to be a lot more than Brits Out and that the purpose of any struggle should be the creation of a new society, they are primarily concerned with the "haves and have nots" in fact. Similarly they aren't saying they want to "lead" anything, and have called on other people getting shafted as a result of this debacle to do the same thing.

    You might have a problem with that, but I don't see anyone else protesting about it.


  • #56
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    Lenihan is hinting that heir going to close it down - Lenihan leaves door open for wind-down of Anglo Irish Bank

    http://www.businessandfinance.ie/cat_news_detail.jsp?itemID=1558

    So, it looks like Eirigi's protest last Saturday changed Lenihan's mind !!!

    Sleepy wrote: »
    Nothing to do with the EU Slab? :rolleyes:

    If you didn't notice, my post #50 had to do with Anglo and not the EU. :rolleyes:


  • #57
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    If you didn't notice, my post #50 had to do with Anglo and not the EU. :rolleyes:

    I think what he's getting at is that the EU have finally called a halt to the sleight-of-hand that was going on, and have recommended that Anglo be shut down......

    ....i.e. the EU has forced Lenihan's hand, not Eirigi.


  • #58
    El Horseboxo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭El Horseboxo


    I wanted to like Eirigi but i just can't. I joined with friends and left because they are basically just a clone of SF. Even though they like to say they are socialist and are different. They are heading in the same direction. And i don't want to be a member of a group that is the model of another one i left for the same reasons.

    The put out all the leaflets and talk like a revolution is around the corner but really it is made up of idiots. I still go to their functions now and then and i swear the people i talk to haven't a clue about the history of Ireland, any socialist ideals or anything other than the doctrine they read from Eirigi. You try have a chat or debate with them and there is just nothing for them to talk about other than the bullet points they read on the leaflets they were handing out or the posters they were sticking up. Granted not all of them are like that but it seems to be a lot from what i have met.

    Even my mates whom i considered intelligent have changed since been with them. During the Lisbon campaign i couldn't believe they were buying into the lies of what and what was not in the treaty. And don't get me started on the shell to sea campaign. I support the thing at heart but when i talk to my mates about it you would swear i agree with giving away our natural resources because what they debate is just distorted facts.

    I could say fair play to them for this action in Anglo but in this country it doesn't matter what you chain yourself to and for what reasons. Because the average person who walks by you isn't thinking fair play to them and i support them. They are thinking what are them lunatics doing chained to a fence. And sadly that's the reason why this country will never be like France or Latin American countries in regards to protesting. Unless something drastic changes.


  • #59
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    still go to their functions now and then and i swear the people i talk to haven't a clue about the history of Ireland, any socialist ideals
    left because they are basically just a clone of SF.

    Éirigi are an anti-GFA organisation who are explicitly socialist in their ideology and politics, unlike Sinn Féin they don't support British policing in Ireland or recapitalisation of banks. If you think that equates with them being a "clone" of Sinn Féin then it's you who has a sh*t grasp of politics and not the average Éirigi member.
    During the Lisbon campaign i couldn't believe they were buying into the lies of what and what was not in the treaty. And don't get me started on the shell to sea campaign. I support the thing at heart but when i talk to my mates about it you would swear i agree with giving away our natural resources because what they debate is just distorted facts.

    Nothing distorted about the arguments against Lisbon, in fact Éirigi's contention that Lisbon would do nothing to provide jobs (which the other crowd were swearing would magically appear once Lisbon was passed) was correct. What was also correct is that Irish national resources were sold to a MNC by a corrupt minister for a song. This is fact, not distortion.
    I could say fair play to them for this action in Anglo but in this country it doesn't matter what you chain yourself to and for what reasons. Because the average person who walks by you isn't thinking fair play to them and i support them. They are thinking what are them lunatics doing chained to a fence. And sadly that's the reason why this country will never be like France or Latin American countries in regards to protesting. Unless something drastic changes.

    The average Joe Soap in Ireland is appalled by what is going on in this country, unfortunately that anger is also stifled by a sense of lethargy, apathy and general lack of direction. What you're doing is criticising a small group of activists for attempting to raise awareness and highlight the absolute sickening injustice that is at the heart of the system in this state. Personally I'd rather be considered a "lunatic" by the likes of Terry Prone (moaning about Éirigi on Raido One yesterday) than sit on my hole b*tching at other Republicans while doing f*ck all myself.

    "Drastic change" has only ever been effected around the world by the actions of political people who are dedicated in their endeavours. All you're doing is further buying into the "do nothing" attitude.


  • #60
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Éirigi are an anti-GFA organisation ......

    Personally, that would be enough for me to discount them.

    But answer me this - if they did manage to get the GFA revoked, would they be in favour of revoking EVERYTHING in it ?

    i.e. would they actively campaign to put all of the terrorists back behind bars ? After all, we stomached that as part of the GFA in the hope that it would help matters, so if the GFA gets revoked, surely that part of it should be too ?

    I know this is heading off-topic, but it's important based on your above statement, and so that people know what they're getting into.......given that it's off-topic, though, feel free to start a new thread to reply to the above question.


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  • #61
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Leaving aside the naval gazing about éirigí and what they stand for, I hear the cops went absolutely bananas today and hospitalised a fair number of protesters and gawpers.

    EVERYONE should try and get to the Unite union demo on Tuesday and show the Gardaí and powers that be that we will not be bullied off our own streets


  • #62
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Anyway, since we now own the bank, thanks to FF's actions, then surely we're not actually breaking the law by "occupying" it ?


  • #63
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    I know this is heading off-topic, but it's important based on your above statement, and so that people know what they're getting into.......given that it's off-topic, though, feel free to start a new thread to reply to the above question.

    As a Republican organisation Éirigi would (and I'm by no means a spokesperson for them by the way) obviously consider the British presence in this country unjust and would desire a British withdrawal. As they have stated before they would believe that the GFA is a continuation of the British Ulsterisation, Normalisation and Criminalisation strategy of the past, and is designed to perpetuate and copper-fasten their presence in the north of Ireland.
    Anyway, since we now own the bank, thanks to FF's actions, then surely we're not actually breaking the law by "occupying" it ?

    Spot on. And not only that, for having the audacity to hang a banner on an overhang of the bank's headquarters, the cops (accompanied by the Special Branch) will arrive to kick the sh*t out of you.

    I'll let you know next time there might be a similar action Liam, you can go down and give them a hand yourself. :D


  • #64
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Anyway, since we now own the bank, thanks to FF's actions, then surely we're not actually breaking the law by "occupying" it ?

    And considering the GRA are massively critical of the Anglo stitch up, the cops brutality today is doubly curious.


  • #65
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    And considering the GRA are massively critical of the Anglo stitch up, the cops brutality today is doubly curious.

    It isn't really like. I was saying this at the time they were threatening strike action a while back, acting like they were but humble workers akin to everyone else. The fact is they aren't, and if it came down to it they'd be the ones out cracking workers' heads on behalf of the government agenda.

    I could go into the whole lark about class-based societies and the police role in this, but I'm not arsed doing so now. But put simply they're the storm troopers, and while they may be on a similar wage they're vastly removed from the likes of a nurse or a fireman.


  • #66
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    And considering the GRA are massively critical of the Anglo stitch up, the cops brutality today is doubly curious.

    Not if you consider the fact they were attacked without warning by a mob outside the Dail the other day.


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  • #67
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    k_mac wrote: »
    Not if you consider the fact they were attacked without warning by a mob outside the Dail the other day.

    For the love of god. Attacked is it?

    Why is the heat being turned up on these protests? Whose agenda does it serve?


  • #68
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    FTA69 wrote: »
    It isn't really like. I was saying this at the time they were threatening strike action a while back, acting like they were but humble workers akin to everyone else. The fact is they aren't, and if it came down to it they'd be the ones out cracking workers' heads on behalf of the government agenda.

    I could go into the whole lark about class-based societies and the police role in this, but I'm not arsed doing so now. But put simply they're the storm troopers, and while they may be on a similar wage they're vastly removed from the likes of a nurse or a fireman.

    Oh I 100% agree. Workers in blue my hole.

    They literally have gone out and brutalised people against their own personal and organisational interests. I'm not naive enough to think that they would join in or anything, but they made a brutal point today.

    Worrying times ahead if the cops are going to go as ape as they did with a long summer of marches ahead.


  • #69
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    Oh I 100% agree. Workers in blue my hole.

    They literally have gone out and brutalised people against their own personal and organisational interests. I'm not naive enough to think that they would join in or anything, but they made a brutal point today.

    Worrying times ahead if the cops are going to go as ape as they did with a long summer of marches ahead.

    Sure they've anticipated this since they brought in the budget before last, apparently they've been retraining the riot squad in Templemore.


  • #70
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Sure they've anticipated this since they brought in the budget before last, apparently they've been retraining the riot squad in Templemore.

    So I hear. But it makes their union seem even more preposterous when they make statements on government policy as militant as eirigi


  • #71
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    j1smithy wrote: »
    No Crossmaglen isn't in Ireland (the country/political entity) but is on the island of Ireland the second largest island in the British Isles geographically speaking. Politically Crossmaglen is in the UK and in no other country, as was Dublin up until 1922. Ireland as a country didn't exist before then.

    Those are the facts, deal with it.

    the facts are that their is no such thing as the british isles except in some of the warped minds in whitehall and yours too perhaps . ireland as a country existed long before most of your anglo saxon ancestors tried walking


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  • #72
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    As a Republican organisation Éirigi would (and I'm by no means a spokesperson for them by the way) obviously consider the British presence in this country unjust and would desire a British withdrawal. As they have stated before they would believe that the GFA is a continuation of the British Ulsterisation, Normalisation and Criminalisation strategy of the past, and is designed to perpetuate and copper-fasten their presence in the north of Ireland.

    I haven't a clue how that even relates to the question.

    My point was that if someone wants to have the GFA retracted, then the obvious consequence of that is that ALL aspects of it are retracted; ergo, the terrorists are all re-jailed.

    Anyway, we can discuss that elsewhere.

    As for joining a protest organised by eirigi - no thanks.......I detest FF because of their fundamental ethos and activities, and the same applies to eirigi.


  • #73
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    k_mac wrote: »
    Not if you consider the fact they were attacked without warning by a mob outside the Dail the other day.

    If 15-20 people constitute a 'mob'....more cutbacks I suppose.


  • #74
    FTA69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    I haven't a clue how that even relates to the question.

    My point was that if someone wants to have the GFA retracted, then the obvious consequence of that is that ALL aspects of it are retracted; ergo, the terrorists are all re-jailed

    Your question is a stupid one to be honest Liam. Why would a Republican organisation which sees a British occupation as illegitimate wish to see those who challenged that occupation reincarcerated? You're only being pedantic now really.
    As for joining a protest organised by eirigi - no thanks.......I detest FF because of their fundamental ethos and activities, and the same applies to eirigi.

    Grand. But it wasn't Éirigi who destroyed this country.

    Similarly there is a myriad of other ways you could make a protest if you wanted to do so.


  • #75
    anymore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,672 ✭✭✭anymore


    FTA69 wrote: »
    http://eirigi.org/latest/latest250410.html

    Personally I was delighted to see activists, accompanied by a Dublin City councillor, occupy the premises of Anglo-Irish Bank. The general problem with this country is that the population is completely apathetic and lethargic in the face of a government that has repeatedly taken the absolute p*ss, as far as I'm aware Lenihan even made a comment to the effect that if the likes of NAMA had been brought in over in France there would have been riots in the streets. Not here of course, here is hoping more people engage in such direct action in future.

    The problem with protesting is the kind of compamy you would be keeping !


  • #76
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Nodin wrote: »
    If 15-20 people constitute a 'mob'....more cutbacks I suppose.

    Actually any more than 12 constitute a riot.


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