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Occupation of Anglo-Irish Bank

  • 26-04-2010 02:41PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭


    http://eirigi.org/latest/latest250410.html

    Personally I was delighted to see activists, accompanied by a Dublin City councillor, occupy the premises of Anglo-Irish Bank. The general problem with this country is that the population is completely apathetic and lethargic in the face of a government that has repeatedly taken the absolute p*ss, as far as I'm aware Lenihan even made a comment to the effect that if the likes of NAMA had been brought in over in France there would have been riots in the streets. Not here of course, here is hoping more people engage in such direct action in future.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭SeanW


    fair f***s to them!

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 806 ✭✭✭bonzos


    Seanie was probably out playin golf with hie FF mates while it was goin on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭p1akuw47h5r3it


    Have to say the mock hanging of Sean fitzpatrick is taking it to far in my opinion.

    I think he deserves a long Jail term nonetheless.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    FTA69 wrote: »
    http://eirigi.org/latest/latest250410.html

    Personally I was delighted to see activists, accompanied by a Dublin City councillor, occupy the premises of Anglo-Irish Bank. The general problem with this country is that the population is completely apathetic and lethargic in the face of a government that has repeatedly taken the absolute p*ss, as far as I'm aware Lenihan even made a comment to the effect that if the likes of NAMA had been brought in over in France there would have been riots in the streets. Not here of course, here is hoping more people engage in such direct action in future.

    I'd support them if they were normal joe soaps rather than a pack of ex-shinners and socialist worker types.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭problemchimp


    I'd support them if they were normal joe soaps rather than a pack of ex-shinners and socialist worker types.
    selective there. let's wait for the blueshirts to sort out things. or maybe Jackie Healy Ray if he's not too busy licking Cowens hole. fair play to the protesters I say!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    selective there. let's wait for the blueshirts to sort out things. or maybe Jackie Healy Ray if he's not too busy licking Cowens hole. fair play to the protesters I say!

    I dislike blueshirts and Jackie Healy Rae and Cowen as well. What exactly is occupying Anglo Irish's headquarters anyway other than getting a bunch of rabble on the six-one news hmm?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    An occupation I can agree with, for once.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    An occupation I can agree with, for once.

    I'm amazed your not blaming it on the Israelis :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,607 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    By the looks of things, éirígí chairperson Brian Leeson is one of those individuals who can't bring himself to call the country by its name (the 26 counties", "the Dublin government"). I find it difficult to take such people seriously.

    Aside, is Anglo-Irish open on a Saturday? They say they chained themselves inside the HQ but it was a Saturday.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    I'd support them if they were normal joe soaps rather than a pack of ex-shinners and socialist worker types.

    Grand, it doesn't take away from the fact a group of people who are sincere about the process of wholesale fraud that's taking place in this country took a small stand in order to draw attention to the issue. You'll be a long time waiting for any of the "respectable" political types to be doing such a thing. It's a bit hypocritical to deride the likes of NAMA et al and then moan about those who actually do something about it. Similarly Éirigi haven't attempted to monopolise this issue and have called on all citizens to take similar stands in order to fight NAMA and the government cutbacks.

    sceptre,

    Yes, Anglo Irish HQ is open on a Saturday.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    You refer to the general apathy of the population, and tiny, militant activist groups like eirigi and other tiny, militant activist groups engaging in this sort of activity doesnt signal a sea change in that apathy. So youll have to forgive people for being a little underwhelmed. Eirigi and their fellow hard core nationalist socialists wont ever threaten to lead any sort of political change in Ireland - they dont even live in the same country as the rest of us by all accounts. Eirigi and their manifesto radiates some sort of field that repels anyone whose got higher priorities than the colour of the flags flying over Belfast and/or works for a living.

    It would be nice if broad agreement on opposition to NAMA was to be found between Eirigi and others opposed to NAMA, but Eirigi and others are ultimately disinterested in NAMA - its just a front which they use to publicise themselves and their own manifesto with events like that Anglo "occupation". If NAMA is considered at all, its only as a symptom of the deeper and more pressing problem of British military occupation of the six counties.

    Sadly, the people responsible for NAMA have their own differences, but they are willing and able to put them to one side to achieve the common goal of feathering their own nests.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Maybe they just made a mistake based on the name of the bank ?

    As others have said, once they can face the fact that they're in an actual country, and not "26 counties" then maybe the country might take notice of them ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    You refer to the general apathy of the population, and tiny, militant activist groups like eirigi and other tiny, militant activist groups engaging in this sort of activity doesnt signal a sea change in that apathy.

    I never said it did, what I said is that it is simply a group of genuine activists who have made a stand (no matter how small) and that is to be commended. Similarly they have also called on others to follow such an example, and to be honest it's hard to disagree; if other citizens were as proactive then perhaps the government actually would take notice, because it's apathy that enables them to pull all the strokes they're pulling.
    Eirigi and their manifesto radiates some sort of field that repels anyone whose got higher priorities than the colour of the flags flying over Belfast and/or works for a living.

    Funnily enough almost everyone in Éirigi I know "works" (as if there was no unemployed people in Ireland anyway), and the party itself is made up of ordinary working people along the lines of milkmen, bus drivers, taxi drivers and cleaners etc. Anyway, you're argument is superfluous considering it is the taxes of other such working people which are going to be used to fund the wholesale robbery that's taking place.
    It would be nice if broad agreement on opposition to NAMA was to be found between Eirigi and others opposed to NAMA, but Eirigi and others are ultimately disinterested in NAMA - its just a front which they use to publicise themselves and their own manifesto with events like that Anglo "occupation". If NAMA is considered at all, its only as a symptom of the deeper and more pressing problem of British military occupation of the six counties.

    Nonsense, as an inherently socialist organisation Éirigi (and I'm in no way a spokesperson for them here) is primarily concerned with capitalism and the consequences of that system. Now you may disagree with that, but in no way is the party simply about "Brits Out" with aspects of a social conscience, I'm sure most people involved had enough of such a redundant philosophy within Sinn Féin and other organisations. As I said on another thread recently, it is imperative for Republicans to examine the broader constructs in society, and not to focus solely on the occupation as the be all and end all, because it isn't, and it certainly isn't of pressing relevance to the vast majority of working class people in Ireland.

    Liam Byrne,
    As others have said, once they can face the fact that they're in an actual country, and not "26 counties" then maybe the country might take notice of them ?

    They are conscious that they're in a country, they're also conscious of the fact that that country is partitioned and that NAMA etc only affects the part of that country that consists of 26 counties.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    They are conscious that they're in a country, they're also conscious of the fact that that country is partitioned and that NAMA etc only affects the part of that country that consists of 26 counties.

    Please do not resort to claiming that the Republic of Ireland is "part of" a country.

    It's part of an island, but it is a country, and I refuse to accept your demotion of it to a "part of".......and the facts back me up.

    You can have your hopes, dreams and wishes, and many would agree with you (including, in part, myself) but that does not change the facts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Whatever, Ireland is a country. And it consists of more than 26 counties, your assertion would relegate the likes of Derry or Crossmaglen to a category which would make it less "Irish" than the likes of Tralee or Cork. Such a notion is simply nonsense to me.

    Anyway, that isn't the issue here and I can see a derailment occurring.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sand wrote: »
    ..... and/or works for a living.
    .....

    I see the usual petty slurs have arrived.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Whatever, Ireland is a country. And it consists of more than 26 counties, your assertion would relegate the likes of Derry or Crossmaglen to a category which would make it less "Irish" than the likes of Tralee or Cork. Such a notion is simply nonsense to me.

    You made an assertion which was factually wrong, and you persist with it. I made no comment about how "Irish" someone is because, "Irish" can refer to the island, so there's no need to imply that I'm somehow insulting Irish people.

    Along the same lines, it's a fact that FF are in Government; I mightn't like it (understatement of the year, really) but it will take democratic effort and agreement from a majority of people to change that.
    FTA69 wrote: »
    Anyway, that isn't the issue here and I can see a derailment occurring.

    No derailment; if I made such a factually incorrect statement in the context of a thread, then I'd be challenged on it.

    And it's loosely related to the topic because an otherwise worthwhile protest has an underlying agenda with which many people would rather not be associated; if those organising a protest refuse to acknowledge facts then they can't realistically lead a protest.

    Anyway, incorrect fact challenged appropriately, and put in context, so I'll leave it lie.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    You made an assertion which was factually wrong, and you persist with it.

    Nope, basically I said that NAMA only effects the southern part of the country, which is true. That is only "factually incorrect" if one considers that the north of Ireland is not really part of "the country" so to speak. Obviously I don't consider that to be the case.
    I mightn't like it (understatement of the year, really) but it will take democratic effort and agreement from a majority of people to change that.

    True, and staging peaceful demonstrations etc is part of that democratic effort.
    And it's loosely related to the topic because an otherwise worthwhile protest has an underlying agenda with which many people would rather not be associated; if those organising a protest refuse to acknowledge facts then they can't realistically lead a protest.

    What underlying agenda? Socialism? Republicanism? All political organisations have an "agenda", there wouldn't be much point in them if they didn't. You mightn't like Republicans, that's fair enough. Perhaps you can be to the fore in leading the next protest?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    So, how exactly is this going to help?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Nope, basically I said that NAMA only effects the southern part of the country, which is true.

    NAMA only affects Munster ???? :eek: I'm going to move
    FTA69 wrote: »
    That is only "factually incorrect" if one considers that the north of Ireland is not really part of "the country" so to speak. Obviously I don't consider that to be the case.

    You can't put "the country" in inverted commas and add "so to speak".

    It's not part of it. Live with it.
    FTA69 wrote: »
    What underlying agenda? Socialism? Republicanism? All political organisations have an "agenda", there wouldn't be much point in them if they didn't. You mightn't like Republicans, that's fair enough.

    I don't like the ones with the capital "R".


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    NAMA only affects Munster ???? I'm going to move
    :rolleyes:

    It's not part of it. Live with it.

    Hilarious. So Crossmaglen is not in Ireland because it also happens to be in the UK? By your logic Dublin wasn't in Ireland either until 1922. Absolute codology.
    I don't like the ones with the capital "R".

    Good for you, I don't see many other people out on the streets over NAMA though.

    Sleepy,

    I never said it was a massive thing or anything, but by your logic any sort of demonstration is fairly pointless and by extension citizen participation in politics thus becomes limited to enumerating a box next to some w*nker's face every five years. You'll find the likes of direct action etc are much more prevalent in the likes of France, and I couldn't see the French acquiescing to the sort of shafting we're after getting here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    FTA69 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:




    Hilarious. So Crossmaglen is not in Ireland because it also happens to be in the UK? By your logic Dublin wasn't in Ireland either until 1922. Absolute codology.



    Good for you, I don't see many other people out on the streets over NAMA though.

    Sleepy,

    I never said it was a massive thing or anything, but by your logic any sort of demonstration is fairly pointless and by extension citizen participation in politics thus becomes limited to enumerating a box next to some w*nker's face every five years. You'll find the likes of direct action etc are much more prevalent in the likes of France, and I couldn't see the French acquiescing to the sort of shafting we're after getting here.

    No Crossmaglen isn't in Ireland (the country/political entity) but is on the island of Ireland the second largest island in the British Isles geographically speaking. Politically Crossmaglen is in the UK and in no other country, as was Dublin up until 1922. Ireland as a country didn't exist before then.

    Those are the facts, deal with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    I'd support them if they were normal joe soaps rather than a pack of ex-shinners and socialist worker types.

    No you wouldn't. You'd find some other reason to dislike them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    FTA69 wrote: »
    I never said it was a massive thing or anything, but by your logic any sort of demonstration is fairly pointless and by extension citizen participation in politics thus becomes limited to enumerating a box next to some w*nker's face every five years. You'll find the likes of direct action etc are much more prevalent in the likes of France, and I couldn't see the French acquiescing to the sort of shafting we're after getting here.
    And the result of the French direct action every few months? A universal reputation for being inflexible in work practices. Fine when you've a country that's large enough to sustain it's own economy, not so good if you're one of the most open economies in the world and utterly dependent on FDI.

    I'm all for writing to TD's and would even support a direct government system such as is in use in Switzerland but all that the protests in Anglo-Irish are going to do is give some security guards some over-time and RTÉ a feature for the news.

    Then again, I don't even know why I'm trying to reason with you since you obviously life in a different reality than me where sovereign states and borders are defined by how one would like them to be rather than international treaty or recognition.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    J1smithy,
    Ireland as a country didn't exist before then.

    Brilliant. No such thing as Ireland until 1922. There's a difference between being a state and a country, the two aren't necessarily interchangeable. By your logic Lithuania ceased to exist as a country after it became a part of the USSR.

    Sleepy,

    Right, so the upshot of your point is that Ireland can't be seen to rock the boat in case we scare away MNCs. It reminds me of an editorial I read in the Examiner a few months back, about how "anger isn't what this country needs" and "political maturity should be the order of the day" etc. The only problem is though, that then again relegates the average citizen to complete powerlessness and promotes a mentality of "sure let Lenihan sort it out", hence the massive political apathy that exists in this country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Brilliant. No such thing as Ireland until 1922. There's a difference between being a state and a country, the two aren't necessarily interchangeable. By your logic Lithuania ceased to exist as a country after it became a part of the USSR.

    Eh ? Do you even know what "USSR" stood for ?

    Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; a grouping in which each country was still a recognised republic / country.

    Similar, if you like to the EU. And Ireland is still a country within the EU.

    Anyways, we're going way off-topic. We'll discuss your view somewhere else.

    But as Sleepy said :
    you obviously life in a different reality than me where sovereign states and borders are defined by how one would like them to be rather than international treaty or recognition.

    I've NO problem with people wanting something changed, but solving a problem starts with recognising the current facts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Union of Soviet Socialist Republics; a grouping in which each country was still a recognised republic / country.

    Similar, if you like to the EU. And Ireland is still a country within the EU.

    So the set-up in the USSR was similar to the EU? Come on now Liam, you can do better than that lad. The USSR was a large singular state, encompassing a number of different countries. A bit like the UK.
    I've NO problem with people wanting something changed, but solving a problem starts with recognising the current facts.

    Yup, and I think these demonstrators recognised the key fact here, and that is that NAMA is fundamentally wrong on all levels and that actions like this should be a regular occurrence. At the very least it was a case of ordinary people highlighting an alternative view to the "Lenihan will see us through" bullsh*t we get in the media day in and day out.

    If you want to discount that because this particular group doesn't consider the north a foreign country or is in favour of Irish unity then that's your prerogative. But then I'd put it to you that it's yourself who's looking at this action in the wrong light.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,612 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Sleepy,

    Right, so the upshot of your point is that Ireland can't be seen to rock the boat in case we scare away MNCs. It reminds me of an editorial I read in the Examiner a few months back, about how "anger isn't what this country needs" and "political maturity should be the order of the day" etc. The only problem is though, that then again relegates the average citizen to complete powerlessness and promotes a mentality of "sure let Lenihan sort it out", hence the massive political apathy that exists in this country.
    The upshot is that if we're going to scare away those MNC's who provide the employment for the vast majority of our skilled workforce, we'd want to be damn sure we're getting something in return for it.

    These protestors aren't offering valid alternatives to propping up Anglo. Right now, no-one is. At present bailing it out is the lowest cost option we have. No, that shouldn't be the case. Yes, the government who've put us in this position (and allowed the bank to get themselves into trouble in the first place) are an absolute fvcking disgrace but sitting in the lobby of the bank having a whinge about that isn't going to fix things. And, to be quite honest, we as a population are too short-sighted and ultimately stupid, to vote for an alternative who could.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    FTA69 wrote: »
    By your logic Lithuania ceased to exist as a country after it became a part of the USSR.
    FTA69 wrote: »
    The USSR was a large singular state, encompassing a number of different countries.

    Highlighted your contradiction eloquently, which was my point exactly. Thank you.

    As for dismissing people based on their unacceptance of an unrelated fact, how do we know that there aren't other more relevant facts that they refuse to accept ?

    Surely the only people who can campaign for the good of this country are those who accept that it actually exists ?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Highlighted your contradiction eloquently, which was my point exactly. Thank you.

    The operative term in the first quote was "by your logic" i.e. you're the one suggesting that because a country or part of a country comes under the jurisdiction of a different state it then ceases to exist as a country. I wasn't contradicting myself by pointing out why you were insinuating like.

    Lithuania remained Lithuania even though it was part of the USSR, Ireland and its northern part remain Ireland even though it was part of the United Kingdom. It's the likes of you and your man who said Ireland didn't exist except as a geographical term until 1922 who are engaging in contradictions. Perhaps a further contradiction in your thinking is your (frankly cracked) assertion that the USSR had a similar set up to the European Union.
    Surely the only people who can campaign for the good of this country are those who accept that it actually exists ?

    I don't recall anyone from Éirigi denying Ireland's existence (although there are others here who would have a go at such nonsense evidently). At the end of the day Liam, professing a wish for Irish unity doesn't make you incapable of expressing opposition to NAMA. As I said, your problem with this lies in the fact it was Irish Republicans who engaged in such a demonstration.

    If such participation in politics disgusts you so much then have a go at it yourself, or weigh in behind those who would. There's nothing stopping you like, as an average citizen you're entitled to.


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