Suppression of free speech in Galway, Ireland

zing zong · 30-08-2009 2:03pm #1

OPINIONS?

"My wife and I were walking down the street in Galway, Ireland, and passed a white-haired human rights worker standing behind a table. Above him were banners calling for the boycotting of Israeli products by the EU. A pamphlet listed stores in Galway that sold Israeli goods and how to spot them. A banner above his table read "Israel kills 300 children in Gaza." A crowd was gathering and my wife and I stood watching.
A woman started screaming that the man behind the table had harassed her and had called her a murderer. Another man, who said that he was a Jewish theology professor from France, was also screaming that the posters were lies. The man behind the table had a video camera pointing at the screamers. He said only, Stop harassing me.
The woman (who I later learned was married to an Israeli) went off and got a garda (cop). He spoke to the man behind the table and said he had to leave or he would be arrested for disturbing the peace. The man said he wouldn’t leave.
I went up to the cop and told him what I had seen: two individuals verbally abusing the human rights worker. A short time later a handful of gardae took the man away in a paddy wagon.
What had happened: the pro-Israel screamers successfully used emotional blackmail—presenting the intensity of their rage as evidence of horrible mistreatment–to elicit protection from the police. Does this MO sound familiar?"

source

Kev_ps3 · 30-08-2009 2:09pm

I blame the dumb Guards

ei.sdraob · 30-08-2009 3:17pm

unbelievable these people have some cheek

i seen the guy, hes there almost every weekended, fairplay to him for pointing out the crimes being committed (tho most people dont care and want to shop)

next time ill see him im gonna stop for a chat

wes · 30-08-2009 3:29pm

Pretty silly that this man was removed, for stating simple facts. I guess some people just don't like the truth.

Joey the lips · 30-08-2009 5:18pm

Is there any links to this in any other paper?

dvpower · 30-08-2009 7:53pm

Sounds a bit fishy to me. I cant imagine how a protest of this nature would be against the law. Any reports in reputeable media?

davej · 30-08-2009 7:56pm

This video comes to mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJZaNne0Pic

davej

JonathanAnon · 30-08-2009 7:59pm

The two people should have been asked to move along. They have the right to set up their own counter protest if they wish. That is what free speech is about. Guards have no interest in justice, they just want the path of least resistance so they can spend more time on their second job.

AlekSmart · 30-08-2009 9:06pm

"My wife and I were walking down the street in Galway, Ireland, and passed a white-haired human rights worker standing behind a table. Above him were banners calling for the boycotting of Israeli products by the EU. A pamphlet listed stores in Galway that sold Israeli goods and how to spot them. A banner above his table read "Israel kills 300 children in Gaza." A crowd was gathering and my wife and I stood watching.
A woman started screaming that the man behind the table had harassed her and had called her a murderer. Another man, who said that he was a Jewish theology professor from France, was also screaming that the posters were lies. The man behind the table had a video camera pointing at the screamers. He said only, Stop harassing me.
The woman (who I later learned was married to an Israeli) went off and got a garda (cop). He spoke to the man behind the table and said he had to leave or he would be arrested for disturbing the peace. The man said he wouldn’t leave.
I went up to the cop and told him what I had seen: two individuals verbally abusing the human rights worker. A short time later a handful of gardae took the man away in a paddy wagon.
What had happened: the pro-Israel screamers successfully used emotional blackmail—presenting the intensity of their rage as evidence of horrible mistreatment–to elicit protection from the police. Does this MO sound familiar?"

Heavens but Galway must have changed since the John Hinde days

However I do smell a wat here.......all a little too down pat for my sensitive nose i`m afraid :rolleyes:

irish_bob · 30-08-2009 9:23pm

JonathanAnon wrote: »

The two people should have been asked to move along. They have the right to set up their own counter protest if they wish. That is what free speech is about. Guards have no interest in justice, they just want the path of least resistance so they can spend more time on their second job.

when it comes to relativley small issues , the guards will usually chastise the quiet , less intimidating party and appease the one who is doing the most shouting , guards dont like hassle and like easy targets , for them its a matter of sticking a name in the book and they perfer to tackle the one least likely to cause a fuss , the politics of this issue is a different matter , i doubt the cops had any real political bias

RedPlanet · 30-08-2009 9:31pm

The story has gone international now.

On Saturday 29th August, the indefatigable activist Tommy Donnellan of IFPAL (Irish Friends of Palestine Against Lisbon) was arrested on the street in Galway while engaged in legitimate advocacy for the Palestinian cause, and against the Lisbon Treaty that will set in formaldehyde the EU's Common Foreign and Security Policy that is so detrimental to that cause
Tommy was peacefully distributing leaflets and collecting signatures when he was approached by a couple of elderly and angry Israeli tourists. The man took exception to the IFPAL placard which displays the incontrovertible message that the Israeli Occupying Forces killed some 300 children when they invaded Gaza last December and January, a figure that the Zionist tourist claimed was false.

Tommy sought to engage the ranting gentleman in "democratic discussion", but to no avail. Eventually the Israeli summoned a youthful Garda who, without seeking to establish the facts of the matter, instructed Tommy to discontinue his legitimate advocacy and move away from the area. Tommy - who, to the great annoyance of the Garda, continued filming while arguing with him - refused on principle to move from the spot.

A polite and well-spoken American (or Canadian?) couple, who had witnessed the whole thing, sought to convince the Garda that Tommy was in fact the injured party, having been subjected to abuse and intimidation by the Israelis. The Garda was less interested in their evidence than in trying to prevent Tommy from filming this dialogue, and at last announced that he was arresting the intrepid activist "under Section 24 of the 1994 Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act for an Offence under Section 8 of the 1994 Criminal Justice Public Order Act."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x362079

youtube video of the whole thing at link.

PomBear · 30-08-2009 9:59pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch9ORXw8ulw

disgraceful how our right to peaceful assembly is abused by the Gardaí and the only reason is because its radical non-PC way of thinking. Note: the Jewish man was peacefully asked to debate in a quiet matter but he was the one making the scene

walrusgumble · 30-08-2009 10:11pm

RedPlanet wrote: »

The story has gone international now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x362079

youtube video of the whole thing at link.

when are these people going to cop on that they don't have monopoly over persecution etc. i would not mind but nearly all the human rights organisations have noted the horrors of gaza.

his lawyer should have a field day with the copper. hopefully the matter will be heard during the court term and not while on holiday where he may get a cranky judge annoyed of being taken away from the .........

a complaint to the garda ombusman should be on the way.feck all it might do (i do sympathise in a way with the garda but he did not even inform the activist the legislative grounds to move on)

30-08-2009 10:14pm

Those protestors annoy me and get in the way.

jumpguy · 30-08-2009 10:18pm

More Gardai stupidity. The people shouting at the man were the ones disturbing the peace.

PomBear · 30-08-2009 10:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Those protestors annoy me and get in the way.

and you posted this because........?

Stupid and irrelevant post

Kalashnikov_Kid · 30-08-2009 10:20pm

Oh I love the Gardai's logic of selective reasoning :rolleyes:

Kev_ps3 · 30-08-2009 10:24pm

That video is a disgrace. Some snotty nosed little Guard taking the side of the fat zionists. That man is a hero..

mrsdewinter · 30-08-2009 10:29pm

Just watched the clip and agree that it's outrageous that a man can be picked up like that for doing nothing more than collecting a few signatures on a Saturday afternoon on Shop Street.
However I don't think the arrest was a political act. Think the young guard found he'd painted himself into a corner by nodding along with the Israeli couple and expected the Galway man to fold his tent quietly. When the campaigner refused to roll over, the cop had to go on the defensive. He certainly didn't cover himself in glory.

walrusgumble · 30-08-2009 10:33pm

jumpguy wrote: »

More Gardai stupidity. The people shouting at the man were the ones disturbing the peace.

the garda made the matters a whole lot worse. the protester may have being more co-operative in garda's favour if he had made an attempt to listen to him and then explain in proper and understandable terms his (garda's position and his rights to arrest or move someone on)

that carry on by the garda went on for 10 - 15 minutes. the two angry members of the public may have being long gone over the other side of the city by then. the garda should have used a bit of cop on and maybe even warn the protester / advise him to try and not get into that position again (not like it was his own fault) and went off and left the protester in peace

would be interesting to see what reaction the copper might get from a sympathic crowd (to the protester) in say france:eek:

it was kind of funny to watch but christ, imagine if that was a protest over irish issues or love ulster etc and ya got someone with a bit of booze on them, there could have being sparks. one would not want that young garda at the scene. i don't know why he was so bothered being filmed if he was correct in approcahing the activist and he actually had power to do what he did. at least he could stand by his decision.

now compare that garda to a garda in a clip from RTE's I Dare Ya. where the two presenters went down bachelors walk half naked. now granted, it was a different kettle of fish to this, but the cop in the i dare ya clip was able to camly inform the lads (all most by verse) the section and regulations for his authority to get them to move on.

jumpguy · 30-08-2009 10:42pm

PomBear wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch9ORXw8ulw

disgraceful how our right to peaceful assembly is abused by the Gardaí and the only reason is because its radical non-PC way of thinking. Note: the Jewish man was peacefully asked to debate in a quiet matter but he was the one making the scene

In fairness, watching that video, how the protestor treated the Garda was wrong. All he did was shouted at the man and just made himself come across as another crazy protestor (ie not peaceful). I know if I was a Garda, I'd definetly think he was the man disturbing the peace (the peaceful protestor) because of his rather aggressive attitude. Even the yank pointed it out to him when the yank was trying to give his witness statement. He said "I think you're being self-defeating". The peaceful protestor should not have shouted at the Garda while the Garda was talking, and asked could he speak, state his constituitional rights and ask the Garda to look for witnesses.

mike65 · 30-08-2009 10:46pm

Why does this thread feel like a set-up?

3fullback · 30-08-2009 10:52pm

Breach of the peace... check
Belligerence... check
Failure to comply with Garda instructions... check
A pain in the arse to walk past on Shop St. in general... check

Kev_ps3 · 30-08-2009 10:58pm

3fullback wrote: »

Breach of the peace... check
Belligerence... check
Failure to comply with Garda instructions... check
A pain in the arse to walk past on Shop St. in general... check
Trample on Irish mans right to protest at deaths of innocent people... check

edited it for you.

Euro_Kraut · 30-08-2009 11:02pm

If the Palestine guy had just complied with the Garda request not to film while he was talking to the Americans everything would have been fine. He took a belligerent and aggressive attitude to the Gardai and that can only mean trouble.

Part of me wonders if he wasn't delighted to get arrested.

PomBear · 30-08-2009 11:04pm

jumpguy wrote: »

In fairness, watching that video, how the protestor treated the Garda was wrong. All he did was shouted at the man and just made himself come across as another crazy protestor (ie not peaceful). I know if I was a Garda, I'd definetly think he was the man disturbing the peace (the peaceful protestor) because of his rather aggressive attitude. Even the yank pointed it out to him when the yank was trying to give his witness statement. He said "I think you're being self-defeating". The peaceful protestor should not have shouted at the Garda while the Garda was talking, and asked could he speak, state his constituitional rights and ask the Garda to look for witnesses.

The Gardaí was unwilling to listen to the protester and still arrested him after talking to the American. The Protester asked the Israeli man, 20-30 seconds into the dispute if he'd like to involve in quiet peaceful democratic debate. The protester was not going to make a scene the Israeli man seemed to have been willing to continue and i'd like to point out to other posters, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THEM PROTESTING, DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO BE THERE AS YOU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_11_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

cornbb · 30-08-2009 11:05pm

In fairness the Garda gave him plenty of rope, in the form of a generous number of warnings. If the pro-Isrealis were indeed abusive, at least they had the good sense to move on and not provoke the Garda. It seems to me like the pro-Palestine/cameraman guy was just hoping to get arrested as if it would make him some sort of martyr. He was hysterical, shoving a camera in everyone's face, looking for attention, and he got it.

I'd consider myself a sympathiser with the palestinians but that guy didn't do anyone any favours.

Edit: and to call this a political arrest is ludicrous. Making arrests based on political bias in the establishment is about 20 pay grades above that of the young Garda. If the protestor had had the good sense to know when to shut up he wouldn't have gotten arrested, end of story. Politics don't come into it.

OldJay · 30-08-2009 11:06pm

mike65 wrote: »

Why does this thread feel like a set-up?

Big style.

Wonder if the PC used by this 'Boycott Israeli Goods' fella contains an Intel chip (now where in the world would that have been designed?) :rolleyes:

Euro_Kraut · 30-08-2009 11:09pm

PomBear wrote: »

The Gardaí was unwilling to listen to the protester and still arrested him after talking to the American. The Protester asked the Israeli man, 20-30 seconds into the dispute if he'd like to involve in quiet peaceful democratic debate. The protester was not going to make a scene the Israeli man seemed to have been willing to continue and i'd like to point out to other posters, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THEM PROTESTING, DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO BE THERE AS YOU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_11_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

JUST BECAUSE YOU PUT SOMETHING IN CAPITALS LETTER DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY MORE CONVINCING.

Seriously, it make you come across as slighty hysterical.

Do you think that Tommy Donnellan could have handled this any better? I do. The Guard could not back down when he insisted on videoing everything. If he even had the cop to hand over the camera to someone else things might have calmed down a bit.

Cannibal Ox · 30-08-2009 11:13pm

PomBear wrote:

JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THEM PROTESTING, DOESN'T MEAN THEY HAVE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO BE THERE AS YOU.

Article 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights protects the right to freedom of assembly and association, including the right to form trade unions, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society".

Gardai warned protestor repeatedly, the protestor refused, the gardai was within his rights to arrest him.

Also, shouting at people through caps with people who disagree with you on a forum, while simultaneously complaining about people shouting at someone they disagree with...hmm...what's that word I'm looking for? Hypocrisy? Irony? I'm not sure

Kev_ps3 · 30-08-2009 11:14pm

Arnt we forgetting something, the only one in the wrong here was the Jewish couple who LIED to the Garda by telling him he was being abusive to them. Isnt that a crime? Suppose that doesnt matter when you are a blind Zionist.

Suppression of free speech in Galway, Ireland

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