Underrated classic games

da gamer · 27-04-2015 2:36am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No there really weren't. There were a few poor PC ports that were acceptable but the rest was rubbish like Disruptor, Alien Trilogy, Lone Soldier or Apocalypse. The PS1 only got a great FPS with Medal of Honor and like Goldeneye that game has not aged well at all.

Ah stop. Your either being very selective or didn't play many ps1 games at the time. You have mentioned crap games like lone soldier there yet for some reason omitted the likes of metal gear solid, tomb raider, tenchu and so on and so on. By 1999 there was a huge selection of great games for the ps1, not just 'poor pc ports'.

CiDeRmAn · 27-04-2015 9:12am

sniper_samurai wrote: »

Death Tank was also on the Saturn version of Duke 3D which was ported by Lobotomy. Great to see that a 360 version of Death Tank was released(bit pricey at €15 though), fantastic local mp game.

Once you combined 2 of their games you're off to local multiplayer bliss.
It is a conversion of an old game which I first played on a PS2, that's an IBM PS/2 vintage computer fans, at that time it was called Scourge.
Long before Team17 cloned it with Worms.

CiDeRmAn · 27-04-2015 9:15am

Retr0gamer wrote: »

No there really weren't. There were a few poor PC ports that were acceptable but the rest was rubbish like Disruptor, Alien Trilogy, Lone Soldier or Apocalypse. The PS1 only got a great FPS with Medal of Honor and like Goldeneye that game has not aged well at all.

I think you're being a tad harsh their Retr0.
Alien Resurrection is just one superior PS fps I can think of.
I'm sure a quick trawl of my own collection will yield a few more examples.

TerrorFirmer · 27-04-2015 9:43am

I thought Time To Kill was a pretty solid game, great multiplayer as well, played a lot of it.

Medal of Honor was a brilliant game and it was released in 1999 - don't get the obsession with how these games have aged, doesn't take away from that fact.

A games suddenly not good because retrospectively 16 years later it's not playable to a new audience? Bizarre and illogical yardstick to be fair.

Alien Trilogy was also an excellent game. Resurrection was good too but I think that was 2000 or 2001.

Quake 2 was a really good port in 1999 as well. I was surprised by what they achieved. 4 player splitscreen in an FPS on the PSX is remarkable.

Also: Delta Force Urban Warfare. Think it came out far too late into the PS1's life cycle to be popular, but it was a pretty good game and definitely under-rated I think. I remember thinking it was going to be rubbish, and being really surprised. Not sure if there are any other modern military FPS on the PSX.

CiDeRmAn · 27-04-2015 10:42am

Quake on the Saturn was one of the most impressive ports I've ever seen.
A console that wasn't supposed to do 3D, plays a simply brilliant version of the game.
It fairly trounces very first person shooter on the N64 and Playstation.

da gamer · 27-04-2015 11:23am

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Quake on the Saturn was one of the most impressive ports I've ever seen.
A console that wasn't supposed to do 3D, plays a simply brilliant version of the game.
It fairly trounces very first person shooter on the N64 and Playstation.

Quake 64 was a great port and top game to boot. Fps games were so frantic and fast paced back then with the likes of quake, doom and duke nukem.

sniper_samurai · 27-04-2015 11:25am

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Quake on the Saturn was one of the most impressive ports I've ever seen.
A console that wasn't supposed to do 3D, plays a simply brilliant version of the game.
It fairly trounces very first person shooter on the N64 and Playstation.

Indeed, especially how it had all the levels and geometry unlike the N64 version, even if they were all scaled to ⅔ their size on PC.

Lobotomy could work wonders with the Saturn considering that Quake was deemed impossible to port to the PS1 and the Saturn at the time.

Retr0gamer · 27-04-2015 12:03pm

da gamer wrote: »

Ah stop. Your either being very selective or didn't play many ps1 games at the time. You have mentioned crap games like lone soldier there yet for some reason omitted the likes of metal gear solid, tomb raider, tenchu and so on and so on. By 1999 there was a huge selection of great games for the ps1, not just 'poor pc ports'.

Read my post again you are putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about all PS1 games just third and first person shooters and the three games you mention so happen to be great to brilliant in my book.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I think you're being a tad harsh their Retr0.
Alien Resurrection is just one superior PS fps I can think of.
I'm sure a quick trawl of my own collection will yield a few more examples.

Alien Ressurection is superb but it was also a very late PS1 game, well after Medal of Honor.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Medal of Honor was a brilliant game and it was released in 1999 - don't get the obsession with how these games have aged, doesn't take away from that fact.

A games suddenly not good because retrospectively 16 years later it's not playable to a new audience? Bizarre and illogical yardstick to be fair.

Alien Trilogy was also an excellent game. Resurrection was good too but I think that was 2000 or 2001.

Quake 2 was a really good port in 1999 as well. I was surprised by what they achieved. 4 player splitscreen in an FPS on the PSX is remarkable

you should play MoH now. Frame rate in the 20 fps area, even worse for the PAL version, some very dodgy level design in places and bugs, lots of texture warping and fogging that won't let you see 20 feet in front of you. I'd say it has aged a bit better than goldeneye, the AI is still superb fun, but time has not been kind.

Alien Trilogy I liked when I first played it but went back to it in 2000 at the end of the PA1s like when I got it cheap. It's a really poor game. The 3D engine is more like Wolfensteins than dooms, level design is boring and enemy sprite work is atrocious. It's very poor. Resurrection is so much better.

Agree with Quake 2 though, really solid port even if they nearly completely changed the levels just to make it work on PS1. Framerate was solid enough around 30 fps and the programmers used a trick that almost entirely eliminated texture warping that made PS1 fps games like MoH look awful. Just some awesome programming going on there. 4 player was great craic even if the game didn't render some rockets when it got a bit hectic. Had a lot of fun destroying my mates since they refused to use a dual shock, Quake 2 had the same control scheme on PS1 (as did MoH) that Halo now gets credited with creating.

da gamer · 27-04-2015 12:49pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

In a time before the PS1 had any decent third or first person shooters it was a bland fill in.

I dont know how I put words in your mouth...

CiDeRmAn · 27-04-2015 4:21pm

I tried to play MoH recently and it was terrible, the controls, the in game visuals were awful.
The presentation, the menus, the music, fantastic, but the game has dated so badly.
Alien Resurrection, to mention it again, was on the same system and was so much better.
Just to mention though that the Doom and Final Doom games on the PS were superb ports.
And the other games with the Doom engine, Hexen for example, were pretty good on the consoles it was ported to, I think I have the PS version, but it too made it's way to the Saturn and N64.

Lemlin · 27-04-2015 5:26pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I tried to play MoH recently and it was terrible, the controls, the in game visuals were awful.
The presentation, the menus, the music, fantastic, but the game has dated so badly.
Alien Resurrection, to mention it again, was on the same system and was so much better.
Just to mention though that the Doom and Final Doom games on the PS were superb ports.
And the other games with the Doom engine, Hexen for example, were pretty good on the consoles it was ported to, I think I have the PS version, but it too made it's way to the Saturn and N64.

As I said above, I really don't think its fair to expect games to stand up to their counter parts twenty years later. It's why I rarely play games other than Zelda or Mario from years ago. Those are true classics which didn't rely on their graphics or realism in the first place.

The likes of a MOH or Tomb Raider were all about being cutting edge at the time. Of course they are going to have lost that gloss two decades later.

On the note of Tomb Raider. Have started playing the Definitive Edition on PS4 and, as others told me to expect, its excellent.

J. Marston · 27-04-2015 8:56pm

Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams.

I'm a big fan of 2D platformers and had never heard of it until I saw it on sale in the PSN store this weekend. Gorgeous to look at and great fun to play.

sniper_samurai · 27-04-2015 9:57pm

J. Marston wrote: »

Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams.

I'm a big fan of 2D platformers and had never heard of it until I saw it on sale in the PSN store this weekend. Gorgeous to look at and great fun to play.

Pretty good for a series whose first game was a blatant sprite swap of Super Mario Brothers.

da gamer · 27-04-2015 10:16pm

Jesrsey devil on the ps1, now there was a good 3d platformer, loved that game, been meaning to go back to it to see how it plays today.

Lemlin · 27-04-2015 11:12pm

da gamer wrote: »

Jesrsey devil on the ps1, now there was a good 3d platformer, loved that game, been meaning to go back to it to see how it plays today.

The original Spyro the Dragon was a great 3d platformer too.

TerrorFirmer · 28-04-2015 12:32am

Lemlin wrote: »

The original Spyro the Dragon was a great 3d platformer too.

LOVED that game. Excellent title, a fantastic PSX alternative to a number of otherwise unchallenged N64 titles at the time.

Retr0gamer · 28-04-2015 7:38am

Lemlin wrote: »

As I said above, I really don't think its fair to expect games to stand up to their counter parts twenty years later. It's why I rarely play games other than Zelda or Mario from years ago. Those are true classics which didn't rely on their graphics or realism in the first place.

The likes of a MOH or Tomb Raider were all about being cutting edge at the time. Of course they are going to have lost that gloss two decades later..

It's definitely fair to expect the, to stand up to the test of time,mature classics will. For example you mention Tomb Raider. The first game has its limitations but the excellent puzzle and level design mean it's still a great game to play, I only finished it a few weeks ago. The sequels however don't live up due to some poor level design and the design choice to focus a lot more on combat.

Retr0gamer · 28-04-2015 7:40am

Spyro was alright. I played it recently and the opening was so bloody slow and the camera has some real issues. The sequels are a big improvement. It was a good alternative to what the n64 offered but nothing was really coming close to the n64 for 3d platformers

CiDeRmAn · 28-04-2015 9:09am

So many great games are still great after 20 or 30 years
From Tetris on the Gameboy to Lemmings on the PC.
From Star Wars in the arcade to Chronotrigger on the SNES and, believe me, the list is endless.
To suggest that games of old are just outdated now is simply wrong.

sweetie · 28-04-2015 9:16am

I've recently played through Castlevania IV, Super Metroid and Link to the past SNES games on Wii U and they hold up so well. Super Mario 64 however somehow feels dated to me (have never played it before)

CiDeRmAn · 28-04-2015 9:48am

I played Mario 64 the other day and while there are visual elements that seem outdated it tended to be the use of poor textures on some of the larger characters.
The levels are lovely though, Wet/Dry world is a triumph.
I still think the game is well worth anyone's time, camera issues aside, though it does allow user control to an extent which helps.
Banjo Kazooie did a similar game but with better textures and a focus on collecting innumerable items, and it just wasn't as good, emphasising the importance if level design over pretty pictures.

Luigis Mansion is a good example of brilliant everything really, a toyset, a diorama, humourous, witty, cleverly using the power of the then new GC to create fabrics and reflections, to such a degree that it still looks fresh today. It also created a new genre, horror game that isn't about you being frightened but about the lead character being terrified. And they didn't follow it up until the sequel on the 3DS. Doesn't matter that there are few 3D games on the PS2 or Xbox from the opening salvo of releases that look as good, in fact there probably aren't too many of note that have aged as well that appeared as launch titles on the PS3 and 360!
And the point of all this rambling is that just because a game is older, on a format that isn't sold in GameStop anymore, does not devalue the games therein one iota, a good game then tends to still be a good game.

Iseedeadpixels · 28-04-2015 10:02am

Shadows of the Empire on the N64 was great craic, a bit buggy but I loved it.

CiDeRmAn · 28-04-2015 10:05am

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Shadows of the Empire on the N64 was great craic, a bit buggy but I loved it.

I must confess to having played an awful lot of that game, but the train level was a pain in the nethers.

Rogue Squadron was much much better though.

Iseedeadpixels · 28-04-2015 1:01pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I must confess to having played an awful lot of that game, but the train level was a pain in the nethers.

Rogue Squadron was much much better though.

My most played game of all time Rogue squadron, its a shame it cant be emulated

Retr0gamer · 28-04-2015 1:02pm

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

Shadows of the Empire on the N64 was great craic, a bit buggy but I loved it.

I played it a good few years ago. It's definitely not under rated. In fact I'd go so far as to call it a terrible game. The third person shooting levels are bad enough with the terrible controls awful bosses and blinding fog but the mini game parts range from crap to unplayable with the hover bike sequence. Dreadful stuff altogether that only got alright reviews because it was an early n64 game.

Thargor · 28-04-2015 1:12pm

always though Mario 64 was a giant pain in the ass tbh, dont think Ive ever played more than 50% of it and I adored Galaxy and everything that came afterwards.

CiDeRmAn · 28-04-2015 2:25pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I played it a good few years ago. It's definitely not under rated. In fact I'd go so far as to call it a terrible game. The third person shooting levels are bad enough with the terrible controls awful bosses and blinding fog but the mini game parts range from crap to unplayable with the hover bike sequence. Dreadful stuff altogether that only got alright reviews because it was an early n64 game.

It was one of the handful of launch games so we were glad of anything!
By the same token, the story told in the game is pretty good, probably one of the first time an expanded universe tale got such press.
The launch game that has aged the best is possibly Pilotwings 64, despite a shocking frame rate it was and still is a lot of fun and considerably better than its 3DS sequel, which is just not as clever in any regard.

Lemlin · 28-04-2015 3:24pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

So many great games are still great after 20 or 30 years
From Tetris on the Gameboy to Lemmings on the PC.
From Star Wars in the arcade to Chronotrigger on the SNES and, believe me, the list is endless.
To suggest that games of old are just outdated now is simply wrong.

I suppose its personal preference but I'm currently playing through Tomb Raider Definitive Edition on the PS4. I have great memories of the original Tomb Raiders but if you were to ask me which I wanted to play now, there'd only be one winner.

I generally keep my retro gaming to handhelds. I sometimes do wish I still had some of my old consoles, my Dreamcast particularly. That said, while I often feel nostalgic, I still reckon if I had a choice of playing a retro game on it or my PS4 I know which I'd be playing.

Time is also a factor. With two kids, I have limited time.

CiDeRmAn · 28-04-2015 4:58pm

Resogun and Bloodborne aside there is precious little to market the PS4 ahead of the SNES or even PS2.
In my opinion at least.

Lemlin · 28-04-2015 5:33pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Resogun and Bloodborne aside there is precious little to market the PS4 ahead of the SNES or even PS2.
In my opinion at least.

I took a break from gaming from pretty much 2008 until this year. I just didn't have the time Therefore I've plenty to catch up on. So far on PS4 I have really enjoyed GTA V, Shadow of Mordor, Far Cry 4, The Last of Us and now Tomb Raider. I still have Bloodborne to delve into as well.

I'm also keeping an eye on Metro Redux and Wolfenstein to come down in value.

I'd prefer Shadow of Mordor to anything I can remember playing on the PS2 to be honest. I never owned a SNES. I was a Mega Drive and Amiga 500 man!

The best Mega Drive game I can remember was Mean Machines purely because of how good it was in multiplayer. It mightn't be the best technically but my friends and I knocked hours of entertainment out of it.

Optimalprimerib · 28-04-2015 5:37pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I played it a good few years ago. It's definitely not under rated. In fact I'd go so far as to call it a terrible game. The third person shooting levels are bad enough with the terrible controls awful bosses and blinding fog but the mini game parts range from crap to unplayable with the hover bike sequence. Dreadful stuff altogether that only got alright reviews because it was an early n64 game.

Jesus is there any game you do like?

da gamer · 28-04-2015 5:47pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Resogun and Bloodborne aside there is precious little to market the PS4 ahead of the SNES or even PS2.
In my opinion at least.

I've been the first one to say that this current gen has been slow in taking off but I think we are being harsh at times on it. Far cry 4, fifa 15, Destiny, the evil within, bloodbourne, wolfenstein, infamous second son, call of duty aw, shadow of mordor, alien isolation along with remakes of the last of us, gta 5 and tomb raider make for a good list of games considering the gen is in its infancy. My main problem with this generation is the apparent laziness of companies with their 'hd remakes'.

CiDeRmAn · 28-04-2015 6:16pm

da gamer wrote: »

I've been the first one to say that this current gen has been slow in taking off but I think we are being harsh at times on it. Far cry 4, fifa 15, Destiny, the evil within, bloodbourne, wolfenstein, infamous second son, call of duty aw, shadow of mordor, alien isolation along with remakes of the last of us, gta 5 and tomb raider make for a good list of games considering the gen is in its infancy. My main problem with this generation is the apparent laziness of companies with their 'hd remakes'.

How many of those are next gen though, and how many are on the PS3/360?
Far Cry 4, Fifa, Destiny, Wolfenstein, CoD, Alien Iso, GTA5, Tomb Raider off the top of my head.
If you already own a previous gen console you're only left with a couple if titles you have to own.
And I don't see a single reason right now to own a XB1, not one.

TerrorFirmer · 28-04-2015 8:04pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

And I don't see a single reason right now to own a XB1, not one.

For Halo fans, the Master Chief Collection is incredible value. Other than that, I agree, pretty disappointed with the very limited line up.

CiDeRmAn · 28-04-2015 8:09pm

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

For Halo fans, the Master Chief Collection is incredible value. Other than that, I agree, pretty disappointed with the very limited line up.

I'll only need one good reason to buy one, but I'm just not seeing it, maybe Halo 5 will be it.

Thargor · 28-04-2015 8:34pm

I dont see how Ill be able to resist a new Halo but I really dont see any other reason to buy an Xbone

I suppose I could buy it, play it and immediately stick it on Adverts, but that will be like paying €150-200 to play a single game.

da gamer · 28-04-2015 8:51pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

How many of those are next gen though, and how many are on the PS3/360?
Far Cry 4, Fifa, Destiny, Wolfenstein, CoD, Alien Iso, GTA5, Tomb Raider off the top of my head.
If you already own a previous gen console you're only left with a couple if titles you have to own.
And I don't see a single reason right now to own a XB1, not one.

Fair point. Lack of new and exclusive titles is disappointing alright. My ps4 is getting a lot of play time all the same.

deathrider · 28-04-2015 8:56pm

da gamer wrote: »

I agree, however I think that a game could get good reviews and still be seen as underrated in the sense that it didn't sell as well as it should have or wasn't played by as many people as it should have been.

Take Wolfenstein New Order or Alien Isolation as recent examples, they both got good reviews, sold reasonably well, but I reckon they are still underrated games

I've just finished Wolfenstein: The New Order, but I'm failing to see why there was such a fuss about it. It seems fairly samey to me.

sweetie · 28-04-2015 9:05pm

deathrider wrote:

I've just finished Wolfenstein: The New Order, but I'm failing to see why there was such a fuss about it. It seems fairly samey to me.

I agree, twas grand but dunno why lads were creaming themselves over it.

Thargor · 28-04-2015 9:19pm

I liked it, the guns were nice and meaty, same for bullet impacts on enemies, not like the BB guns in Call of Duty. Best FPS in a long time.

deathrider · 28-04-2015 9:24pm

It wasn't a bad game, don't get me wrong. It just wasn't anything to write home about.

Retr0gamer · 28-04-2015 11:25pm

deathrider wrote: »

It wasn't a bad game, don't get me wrong. It just wasn't anything to write home about.

In a pretty terrible year Wolfensteins stood out as a really fun no nonsense shooter. In any other year it probably would have been forgotten about. Still really enjoyed it.

CiDeRmAn · 29-04-2015 12:03am

I have always said a console only needs one unique amazing title to make it worth owning, so far the PS4 has about three.

johnny_ultimate · 29-04-2015 12:20am

Wolfenstein's problem was it wanted to be too many things at once. It wanted to be a retro style shooter with open levels, modern polish and big expensive setpieces. It wanted to be an absurd alternate reality farce, but also an earnest character study with grand storytelling aspirations and an interest in highlighting Nazi atrocities.

To the developers credit, they tried, and it's interesting for the first few hours (especially the few chapters that directly follow the prologue). But even at its best it's clear the elements are contradicting each other in many respects. Ultimately it does nothing particularly well and plenty of things adequately, and that's about it. By the final third they've pretty much resigned themselves to waves upon waves of enemies in crazy sci-fi Nazi settings, but even then it's more repetitive than entertaining. Certainly in a year that gave us the most gratifyingly 'fun' FPS of recent years (Titanfall), New Order IMO didn't even deliver much memorable in the way of silly old-school thrills. Again, fine and competent, just nothing more. At least it isn't anywhere near as tasteless as it could have been given the amount of actively contradictory stuff thrown on the screen.

Mal-Adjusted · 29-04-2015 12:28am

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I have always said a console only needs one unique amazing title to make it with owning, so far the PS4 has about three.

which three do you consider them to be? genuine question as I haven't decided which 8th gen console to get.

CiDeRmAn · 29-04-2015 8:00am

As I've said, Resogun, Bloodborne and Drive Club, they are stunning and real evolutions of what you've seen before.
Drive Club is essentially a sequel to Project Gotham and MSR, but avoids city based racing, is pretty essential.

Maximus Alexander · 29-04-2015 10:23am

sweetie wrote: »

I agree, twas grand but dunno why lads were creaming themselves over it.

I agree too. I used to love a good single player FPS but haven't bothered with the genre in a few years because I felt it has stagnated and I was just playing the same thing again and again.

With all the fuss over The New Order I decided to bite, and I never even finished it. The production values were high, sure, but ultimately it never strayed from the standard FPS mould of the last 20 years. I was disappointed.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 29-04-2015 10:41am

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

How many of those are next gen though, and how many are on the PS3/360?
Far Cry 4, Fifa, Destiny, Wolfenstein, CoD, Alien Iso, GTA5, Tomb Raider off the top of my head.
If you already own a previous gen console you're only left with a couple if titles you have to own.
And I don't see a single reason right now to own a XB1, not one.

If you havent played Sunset overdrive, you're doing yourself a disservice. Its a classic.
Forza Horizon 2 is also excellent.

The disadvantage the XB1 has IMO, is that most of the games are available on PC as well, and look better there too.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 29-04-2015 10:44am

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I agree too. I used to love a good single player FPS but haven't bothered with the genre in a few years because I felt it has stagnated and I was just playing the same thing again and again.

With all the fuss over The New Order I decided to bite, and I never even finished it. The production values were high, sure, but ultimately it never strayed from the standard FPS mould of the last 20 years. I was disappointed.

I liked it, but had to really make myself complete it. I know the campaign had to be long to make up for the lack of multiplayer, but I think it outstayed its welcome a little.

CiDeRmAn · 29-04-2015 1:20pm

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

If you havent played Sunset overdrive, you're doing yourself a disservice. Its a classic.
Forza Horizon 2 is also excellent.

The disadvantage the XB1 has IMO, is that most of the games are available on PC as well, and look better there too.

I'll own a XB1 this year, at some point, but right now its content is mostly multiplatform and pretty derivative.
Which is precisely the same situation on the PS4.
The difference is the PS4 has a better collection of exclusives.

But, I'm sorry, getting way off of the point of the OP.

Has everyone here played XIII?
A very nice cell shaded fps.

Underrated classic games

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