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Just Seen My Old Car for Sale - with lower mileage

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13

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    #62
    TheBigLebowski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭TheBigLebowski


    I'd say the clocking of cars is absolutely widespread in Ireland especially among dealers, to the point that if you buy off a dealer (probably not main dealers), it is probable that the car has been clocked. The average private seller might not have the know how to do this. Does anyone on here know how easy it is to clock modern cars?

    This is another reason to buy from the UK where the HPI check will tell you of any discrepancies with the mileage...


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    #63
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Apparently it’s perfectly legal to replace a clock in a car with a different one if the original is "faulty". Whether the original was faulty or not could be difficult to prove, there’s a garage near Loughea on the Portumna road that offers a "calibration" service and will charge anything from 150 for "calibrating" a Ford to 500+ for a Mercedes. He knows people will pay because they will make it up again in sales. A good mechanic will spot a docked car, look for scratches, screw driver marks, numbers miss aligning, missing screws, thumb prints, grease marks, dust etc inside and around the panel.


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    #64
    Mr.Diagnostic
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Mr.Diagnostic


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    I'd say the clocking of cars is absolutely widespread in Ireland especially among dealers, to the point that if you buy off a dealer (probably not main dealers), it is probable that the car has been clocked. The average private seller might not have the know how to do this. Does anyone on here know how easy it is to clock modern cars?

    This is another reason to buy from the UK where the HPI check will tell you of any discrepancies with the mileage...

    It is more widespread than you think. It is not just dealers but main dealers too. One thing that may surprise you would be the number of private individuals who do it as well. How can you know if an individual has done 100k or 20k in the few years he owned the car. Service histories mean nothing unless you can check them.

    Allowing for all that it has to be said, there are a lot of honest people out there selling cars in all sectors.

    So what is the answer for a potential buyer? Get it checked! Check the history and get a professional* to check the car.

    *someone who really knows cars not a mate who claims to know.


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    #65
    IncredibleHulk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 633 ✭✭✭IncredibleHulk


    Redjeep! wrote: »
    Just called SIMI.

    To say that they were uninterested would have been an overstatement. They suggested that I may want to call the Director of Consumer Affairs.
    OP,Would you mind if SIMI were asked about their policy and a link to this sent?


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    #66
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,834 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    A good mechanic will spot a docked car, look for scratches, screw driver marks, numbers miss aligning, missing screws, thumb prints, grease marks, dust etc inside and around the panel.

    ...except most "clocks" are digital in cars these days, and are modified in software, so you can never know without documentary evidence of it having higher mileage (such as fuel card receipts, dunno if the NCT record it, service records...)


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    #67
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    You can clock a car with a digital mileometer in under 30 mins, the joys of plug and play! And if you don't "correct" the mileage too much it is virtually impossible to tell if it has been done or not. Cars with old fashioned mileometers are actually harder to clock and clocking cars with mechanical odometers leaves a lot more evidence behind. Digits that don't line up properly, ill fitting dashboards are all tell tale signs of a car thats been clocked.

    Volvo has invented some new device that makes it virtually impossible to clock a car(for now at least). New BMW's have keys that record every last detail, so when you take it for a service the dealer puts the car key into a computer and it can tell them everything from mpg, average speed etc, every time you make a journey in a newish BMW everything from distance travelled to time taken to fuel used average speed etc is recorded so a newish BMW would be very hard to clock as well, because all the cars' data is stored in more than one place(I presume that all this technology would mean a BMW dealer could tell if the engine has been chipped too).


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    #68
    King Kelly
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭King Kelly


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    I'd say the clocking of cars is absolutely widespread in Ireland especially among dealers, to the point that if you buy off a dealer (probably not main dealers), it is probable that the car has been clocked. The average private seller might not have the know how to do this. Does anyone on here know how easy it is to clock modern cars?

    This is another reason to buy from the UK where the HPI check will tell you of any discrepancies with the mileage...

    Thats a big statement to make that I doubt can be backed up. There are probably upwards of 500,000 used vehicles sold on an annual basis in Ireland. The likelihood of the majority of these vehicles being clocked is absurd. The vast majority of dealers, especially main dealers, have been in business for many years and have good customer loyalty and recieve repeat business prescisely because the customer is buying a warranted product and that they know the dealer will still be there if they return with a problem.

    Buyers have an plenty of choice out there when purchasing a vehicle. They need to realise that if a deal looks too good to be true it probably is.

    The idea that you have greater protection by buying from a private individual or from the UK just does not stand up. ( In fact I would suggest that high milage UK ex fleet cars are much more likely to be clocked by unscrupulous importers). You may be lucky and get a great deal and be fully satisfied. You may also be buying an absolute dog. I know where i'd prefer spend my hard earned.

    You can also be sure that some individuals who are well aware that their vehicle has been clocked, crashed or suffering from electronic or mechanical problems have no hesitation in trading them in as perfectly sound vehicles. While main dealers will generally spot these immediatly, intermitant electronic faults are especially hard to spot and expensive to repair. These vehicles will probably end up in the auctions before landing on back street dealers yards at a bargain price.


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    #69
    AntiVirus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭AntiVirus


    Redjeep! wrote: »
    Not going to name and shame I'm afraid,

    Grow some balls for god sake. Its because of people like you that they'll get away with it. :rolleyes:


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    #70
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    AntiVirus wrote: »
    Grow some balls for god sake. Its because of people like you that they'll get away with it. :rolleyes:

    100% agree. while the OP argues its not him that clocked it and everyone should give him a break , how would the OP feel if he bought a clocked car and later on found out someone knew about it , could have have warned him but didnt

    for shame :(


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    #71
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    E92 wrote: »
    BMW's have keys that record every last detail,
    The device for altering the key is an optional extra for most clocking kits. BMWs are as easy to clock as anything else. They're probably worse tho for giving a greater false sense of security.


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    #72
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    King Kelly wrote: »
    Buyers have an plenty of choice out there when purchasing a vehicle. They need to realise that if a deal looks too good to be true it probably is.
    yup, saw a car the other week, great price, brought someone to look at it and the dealer who was selling for a customer couldn't find the key. He looked at the bodywork and I was told that evry single panel gap on the car was mismatched so it wasn't even worthwhile to have him come back to look under the bonnet...so much for UK imports being a better deal...no point doing a HPI with that sort of comment.

    Now I didn't ASK the dealer had the car been crashed, but at the same time these are things that someone could easily be stung on!


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    #73
    Sandwich
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Sandwich


    Research a few years ago in the UK found that approx 20% of used car sales had been clocked.


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    #74
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    Sandwich wrote: »
    Research a few years ago in the UK found that approx 20% of used car sales had been clocked.
    I remember seeing a thing about UK cars that surprised me: if the car has had 3 owners there is a more than 50% chance it has been clocked. If it has had 5 owners or more then it's almost 100%.


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    #75
    LimerickLass
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭LimerickLass


    Redjeep - U need to go and see the car yourself and check the mileage, simple as! I used to work for a car dealership and part of my job was to update the various websites with the stock etc., and if I didnt have the exact mileage the sales guys would just have a guess, so it could be a simple clerical error as stated before..U need to check it!


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    #76
    IncredibleHulk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 633 ✭✭✭IncredibleHulk


    LimerickLass wrote: »
    I used to work for a car dealership
    Can you let us in on any secrets we should know?


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    #77
    kluivert
    Registered Users Posts: 2,399 ✭✭✭kluivert


    My car has three owners including me. Lucky for me I know the previous last two owners and the my car is geniune. And it turns out its the best car I ever bought.

    My first car was a 94 clio with 103k miles back in 02 with 5 owners. The car was in perfect condition only for I crashed it three months after buying it.

    My second car was also a 94 Clio with 55k miles in Jan 03, this car was a bad buy and I have learned from it because it died at 74k miles. The car was obviously clocked back alot. It caused me alot of trouble mechanically signs of wear and tear.

    Clocking is a big problem in this country, you only have to look towards jap imports to see that. I enjoyed watching the RTE programme some time back about clocking where they identified car dealers (not main) clocking cars and confronting the owners.

    Its not illegal to clock a car, its illegal to sell a car knowing that ir has been clocked.

    My car has 114k miles and if I sell it today, thats what the clock will read because personally I would rather a car that has done 20k miles per year than a car that has done only 2k miles a year.

    To the OP, I would post a link to the ad stating that "you feel that there might be some irregularities with this advertisement and please check accuracy with the seller".


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    #78
    TheBigLebowski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭TheBigLebowski


    ninty9er wrote: »
    He looked at the bodywork and I was told that evry single panel gap on the car was mismatched so it wasn't even worthwhile to have him come back to look under the bonnet...so much for UK imports being a better deal...

    So you base your opinion on all UK cars on this one car? You think there is no cars for sale in Ireland in this condition?
    20% of UK cars clocked [Endquote]

    I would say that this is nothing compared to Irish cars especially since we have no system for checking mileage irregularities linked to the NCT like in the UK...


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    #79
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    When I went looking for my car, I was shocked by the amount of them available with between 27 & 28k. Obviously that is a good number for a 3 year old car...


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    #80
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    So you base your opinion on all UK cars on this one car? You think there is no cars for sale in Ireland in this condition?
    20% of UK cars clocked [Endquote]

    I would say that this is nothing compared to Irish cars especially since we have no system for checking mileage irregularities linked to the NCT like in the UK...

    Don't the NCT people record the cars' mileage?

    And there are plenty of clues as to whether a car has been clocked, poor paintwork(lots of stone chips etc), pedal rubbers that look like new or are ancient looking, a well used looking drivers' seat etc.


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    #81
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    So you base your opinion on all UK cars on this one car? You think there is no cars for sale in Ireland in this condition?
    20% of UK cars clocked [Endquote]

    I would say that this is nothing compared to Irish cars especially since we have no system for checking mileage irregularities linked to the NCT like in the UK...

    The NCT cert does record milage. No I won't base all UK cars on that one...I'm merely stating that to your average Joe, it's a lot easier to make the history disappear


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    #82
    TheBigLebowski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭TheBigLebowski


    ninty9er wrote: »
    The NCT cert does record milage.

    I know the NCT record the mileage but that's of no use if we can't access the records. As far as I know cartell can't access the records either. Cartell give mileage information but it's not from the NCT so unless your mileage has been recorded elsewhere, there's no record.


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    #83
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    kluivert wrote: »
    My car has 114k miles and if I sell it today, thats what the clock will read because personally I would rather a car that has done 20k miles per year than a car that has done only 2k miles a year.
    I don't get that logic. My car had 1k a year done for the first 6 years. It's a '00 and has the mileage/wear/condition of a 2 year old.


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    #84
    TheBigLebowski
    Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭TheBigLebowski


    Any chance the OP may have grown some balls yet or are they gonna just just let one of us buy this clocked car?


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    #85
    IncredibleHulk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 633 ✭✭✭IncredibleHulk


    TheBigLebowski wrote: »
    Any chance the OP may have grown some balls yet or are they gonna just just let one of us buy this clocked car?
    Or even say what make so we know what to avoid


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    #86
    coolbeans
    Registered Users Posts: 3,037 ✭✭✭coolbeans


    the cars been clocked! these guys committed a crime and they should be shopped. it's an annoying trait of Irish people not to shop people who deserve it. and then we go around the place moaning about poor service, high prices etc...
    do we get what we deserve with attitudes like this?


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    #87
    John R
    Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    Is this thread still going? I'm sure some poor sap has been stung for a few €k at this stage for this car.

    coolbeans wrote:
    do we get what we deserve with attitudes like this?

    No, other people end up paying for it. I am sure had the OP bought a car that subsequently was found to have been clocked the name of the dealer would be all over the web by now.


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    #88
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    I'm not particularly interested in the one instance here of a [probably] clocked car.

    - I do find it interesting that SIMI has been informed about this by a member of the public who is both willing and able to provide documentary evidence of a clocked car being fraudulently sold to some poor unsuspecting person by what is most likely a SIMI approved and endorsed Dealership and has declined to show any honesty, integrity, backbone or reason to exist.

    I would sincerely love if some radio program or motoring journalist did pick this one up - SIMI should lose all credibility and everyone's respect in this instance.

    W@nkers.


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    #89
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Raiser wrote: »
    I'm not particularly interested in the one instance here of a [probably] clocked car.

    - I do find it interesting that SIMI has been informed about this by a member of the public who is both willing and able to provide documentary evidence of a clocked car being fraudulently sold to some poor unsuspecting person by what is most likely a SIMI approved and endorsed Dealership and has declined to show any honesty, integrity, backbone or reason to exist.

    I would sincerely love if some radio program or motoring journalist did pick this one up - SIMI should lose all credibility and everyone's respect in this instance.

    W@nkers.

    Not only have they shown no interest, but they are now blackening the name of ALL SIMI dealers by dragging entire networks down with them by failing to punish the scum that break the rules.


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    #90
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    How about the Government makes clocking illegal? It still is perfectly legal to clock a car. I realise it's illegal to knowingly sell a clocked car, but that's beside the point. Like it is perfectly legitimate to pay someone to clock your car, and to offer a clocking service, it's about time this loophole in the law was abolished.


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    #91
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    E92 wrote: »
    How about the Government makes clocking illegal? It still is perfectly legal to clock a car. I realise it's illegal to knowingly sell a clocked car, but that's beside the point. Like it is perfectly legitimate to pay someone to clock your car, and to offer a clocking service, it's about time this loophole in the law was abolished.

    Hrash laws make bad justice. This being a perfect example as the owner or seller would get done for it as opposed to some dodgy middleman who actually did it.

    And any way

    "prove it" which is a common obstacle I've come up against recently


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