Have you a fag?......leads to assault

Into The Blue · 26-11-2015 1:33pm

Augeo wrote: »

Any time a random scummer approaches me asking for change, cigarette to borrow my phone I'm immediately thinking they are on the prowl to do something like this. Luckily nothing has ever materialised.

My ole la was heading to the chipper one night after a few pints almost 20 years ago, he'd have been about 50, very respectable looking chap but well able to handle himself (two wins away from national boxing title back in the day when he was 19), two scummers asked him would he have 50p.

Ole lad knew what was coming, sized them up, dug deep into his pocket, pulled out some change, put his hand out low towards the nearest fella and says "Is there a 50p there for you?". Your man leaned in, ole lad grabbed him by the neck and head butted him. Other cnut wasn't interested in any 50p after that. The ole lad is pretty cool tbf.

What if they were just 50p short of a snack box?????!!!!!!!!!!!! Poor feckers, nervous wrecks after the assault never left the house after dark again.

Now where's that pacman face on the phone site??!!

26-11-2015 1:35pm

Tip for you all. Personal space is personal space for a reason. Never let anybody that you do not want into it. If some random ask for a fag, hands up straight away, in front of face but enough to get the first punch in.
Always be spatial aware. look for your route out of danger. In short be ready. There is **** on the streets !

Flippyfloppy · 26-11-2015 1:36pm

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Are ye lookin' ?

Startin are ye?!

Yester · 26-11-2015 1:48pm

I get asked for a fag sometimes but I smoke rollies so it's really awkward. I'm not willing to hand over my pouch of tobbaco to a stranger so I end up rolling one for them. This leads us to being in each others company for about 30 seconds or so. Then it comes to the moment when you have to use your tongue to seal the rolly and you are both trying not to make eye contact. Very awkward all round.

jobbridge4life · 26-11-2015 2:04pm

6541 wrote: »

Tip for you all. Personal space is personal space for a reason. Never let anybody that you do not want into it. If some random ask for a fag, hands up straight away, in front of face but enough to get the first punch in.
Always be spatial aware. look for your route out of danger. In short be ready. There is **** on the streets !

Do you actually live your life like that? What a horrible way to exist.

jobbridge4life · 26-11-2015 2:07pm

Augeo wrote: »

Any time a random scummer approaches me asking for change, cigarette to borrow my phone I'm immediately thinking they are on the prowl to do something like this. Luckily nothing has ever materialised.

My ole la was heading to the chipper one night after a few pints almost 20 years ago, he'd have been about 50, very respectable looking chap but well able to handle himself (two wins away from national boxing title back in the day when he was 19), two scummers asked him would he have 50p.

Ole lad knew what was coming, sized them up, dug deep into his pocket, pulled out some change, put his hand out low towards the nearest fella and says "Is there a 50p there for you?". Your man leaned in, ole lad grabbed him by the neck and head butted him. Other cnut wasn't interested in any 50p after that. The ole lad is pretty cool tbf.

That sounds awfully like an unprovoked assault.

LDN_Irish · 26-11-2015 2:18pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Do you actually live your life like that? What a horrible way to exist.

I do now. Learnt my lessons already. You're right, it's not great but it's much better than being blindsided by a coward and having people kick you in the head while you're defenseless for something to tell their mates.

There are enough people who leave their house actually looking forward to something kicking off. If they don't get what they want with some similar minded people then any man (and more rarely woman) is a potential target that make it a genuine risk rather than just the usual paranoia about the "country getting worse."

TerrorFirmer · 26-11-2015 2:29pm

Augeo wrote: »

Any time a random scummer approaches me asking for change, cigarette to borrow my phone I'm immediately thinking they are on the prowl to do something like this. Luckily nothing has ever materialised.

My ole la was heading to the chipper one night after a few pints almost 20 years ago, he'd have been about 50, very respectable looking chap but well able to handle himself (two wins away from national boxing title back in the day when he was 19), two scummers asked him would he have 50p.

Ole lad knew what was coming, sized them up, dug deep into his pocket, pulled out some change, put his hand out low towards the nearest fella and says "Is there a 50p there for you?". Your man leaned in, ole lad grabbed him by the neck and head butted him. Other cnut wasn't interested in any 50p after that. The ole lad is pretty cool tbf.

No idea why people are thanking a story which appears to outline a brutal and unprovoked attack.

I get asked if I've a euro for a hostel/a smoke/a lighter/spare change all the time.

Should I start head butting them now instead of just saying 'no, sorry'?

draiochtanois · 26-11-2015 2:30pm

This post has been deleted.

Samaris · 26-11-2015 2:38pm

Interesting point about young men being more likely to be approached like that, and from my experience, I agree that that particular one doesn't tend to happen to women so much. I assume on the Hard Man scale, intimidating or randomly punching a woman rates a lot lower on the scale than punching a man!

Mind you, I can only imagine the confused reaction of someone that asks a bloke for a cigarette and suddenly the other chap's got his hands up in front of his face! I can only assume that my reaction to that would be to back away slowly and look bewildered! (Having said that, I'm not a threatening-looking person.)

Also agree that it's the -randomness- that's possibly the most long-lasting effect of it all. Didn't do anything to provoke it, followed all the 'normal rules of society' so to speak, and get punished for it. Makes you very edgy and nervous. When I was in England, walking home after my evening shift as a carer for an elderly woman, I had a man edge towards me as he approached on the path. It was a main road, but it was late evening and fairly isolated. He had a bike with him, and he used it to 'herd' me a bit. I was watching him out of the corner of my eye, because something didn't feel right, and as he got level with me, he suddenly shot out a hand and grabbed me quite hard between the legs. I leaped back away from him and got right up the path before turning to -stare- at him, and shouted for him to leave (I was afraid he might follow me otherwise, and I wanted him to know I was getting a damned good look at him). Anyway, scared him off, called the police, etc. etc. But the point to the story is that it shook me badly, and for ages afterwards, I was giving lone men a wide berth on paths, watching them as they walked past, afraid to walk alone at night, all the usual stuff.

Long story short, random attacks are particularly scary because there's little to nothing one can do to prevent them happening; some people are just scum. And I hope they catch the Galway guy and throw the book at him. In the face.

26-11-2015 2:44pm

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That sounds awfully like an unprovoked assault.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

No idea why people are thanking a story which appears to outline a brutal and unprovoked attack.

I get asked if I've a euro for a hostel/a smoke/a lighter/spare change all the time.

Should I start head butting them now instead of just saying 'no, sorry'?

haha

better safe than sorry imo

SEPT 23 1989 · 26-11-2015 2:48pm

on Liveline now?

Realt Dearg Sec · 26-11-2015 2:54pm

Augeo wrote: »

haha

better safe than sorry imo

On another reading of your story, your father sounds like exactly the kind of person this thread is about, someone who randomly attacks people for absolutely no reason, not the solution to the problem.

El Weirdo · 26-11-2015 3:05pm

Augeo wrote: »

haha

better safe than sorry imo

What would your reaction be if the scumbag in the OP used that line as his defence?

Bobby Baccala · 26-11-2015 3:05pm

6541 wrote: »

Tip for you all. Personal space is personal space for a reason. Never let anybody that you do not want into it. If some random ask for a fag, hands up straight away, in front of face but enough to get the first punch in.
Always be spatial aware. look for your route out of danger. In short be ready. There is **** on the streets !

What a fúcking mental existence. Think you need to grow up a bit!

GreatDefector · 26-11-2015 3:07pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

You know what, you are right. We should give violent thugs sweets and cuddles. That'll teach them.

and a playstation when they're eventually locked up for 5 years with 4.5 suspended

LDN_Irish · 26-11-2015 3:39pm

Samaris wrote: »

Mind you, I can only imagine the confused reaction of someone that asks a bloke for a cigarette and suddenly the other chap's got his hands up in front of his face! I can only assume that my reaction to that would be to back away slowly and look bewildered! (Having said that, I'm not a threatening-looking person.)

Haha, well I don't quite do it like the previous poster. Back when I smoked if i was asked out on the street in an isolated area, I wouldn't throw the hands up. I'd say yes and be friendly but I'd only use one hand at a time to get my cigarettes and lighter out. Both hands in the pockets at the same time is leaving yourself defenceless against a sucker punch.

I've been asked for a fag many a time and the vast majority of people, probably 99% are just looking for a fag but it's the 1% of the time you have to be careful of.

Another tip is if asked the time by a gang of lads in English cities is to just say you don't have it. They don't need the time, they need to see what phone you're gonna check the time on to.see if it's worth robbing you. I'm not believing that any group of more than 2 have somehow all been left without a phone that tells the time on them.

26-11-2015 4:02pm

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

On another reading of your story, your father sounds like exactly the kind of person this thread is about, someone who randomly attacks people for absolutely no reason, not the solution to the problem.

El Weirdo wrote: »

What would your reaction be if the scumbag in the OP used that line as his defence?

Ok, the ole lad was fairly sure he was going to be a victim of an assault

So he acted prior to the assault.

I'm sure the lad in Galway with the broken jaw would prefer if he handled his situation like my ole lad did. Instead of being the victim he'd now be viewed as a scumbag by the likes of ye two but I'm sure he wouldn't really give a feck.

The ole lad hs of course een asked for change, the time and smokes etc countless times over his life and the situation described happened once, make of it as you will, he trusted his gut.

BenedrylPete · 26-11-2015 4:17pm

I think the 'do you have a smoke' thing in certain contexts is a sign youre about to get mugged.

If you answer back they take you for someone who doesnt recognize the situation/has no street smarts and therefore is a good target.

Ive had a situation where i was asked, i replied and an attempted mugging followed.
Made him think twice though, just with some intimidation, no attack took place but hands were raised. No mistake/imagination.

So 'do you have a smoke' in certain contexts might translate as 'are you a soft target'. Ignore the question look for exits and watch your back.

SEPT 23 1989 · 26-11-2015 4:27pm

Never been mugged after being asked for a smoke but then again I smoke John Player Blue

Pat Mustard · 26-11-2015 4:56pm

6541 wrote: »

Tip for you all. Personal space is personal space for a reason. Never let anybody that you do not want into it. If some random ask for a fag, hands up straight away, in front of face but enough to get the first punch in.
Always be spatial aware. look for your route out of danger. In short be ready. There is **** on the streets !

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Do you actually live your life like that? What a horrible way to exist.

A guy called Marc McYoung writes on the Five Stages of Violent Crime (among other things). The second stage is called "The Interview", which is what happened when the attacker asked his victim for a cigarette:

Interview

This is where the criminal decides if you are safe to attack.
...

This is one interview you want to fail. If you fail, the assailant decides that he cannot successfully, or easily, attack you. Then if he is a criminal, he will proceed to seek easier prey. In the case of an emotionally upset individual, he will change tactics. For example instead of physically assaulting you he will proceed to stand back and proceed to verbally abuse you. This allows him to 'win' without putting himself at physical risk.

There are five basic types of interviews. The one a criminal uses depends more on his personal style than anything else.

Regular - This is the most common form of interview for muggers. The criminal will approach you under the guise of normalcy, i.e., needing information or small item (e.g. matches). This is a distraction. While he is talking, he is not only getting in position to attack, but a) checking your awareness about what he is doing and b) your commitment to defending yourself.

...

Unfortunately, young people are often targets for assaults, especially late at night and in 'fringe' areas, away from the assistance of others.

It's not nice to have to be careful around people but it's safer than letting the wrong sort of person get in close enough to be able to attack. Being alert is a good thing, especially when approached by a group, late at night.

jeff bingham · 26-11-2015 5:16pm

The right decision by Augeo's father imo. Sometimes you know a situation is threatening or about to turn violent. You might only have one chance to protect yourself.

RDM_83 again · 26-11-2015 8:35pm

6541 wrote: »

Tip for you all. Personal space is personal space for a reason. Never let anybody that you do not want into it. If some random ask for a fag, hands up straight away, in front of face but enough to get the first punch in.
Always be spatial aware. look for your route out of danger. In short be ready. There is **** on the streets !

Personally I give anybody approaching me an Ocular Pat Down :cool:

Actual reply: on the flip side having a smoke can be useful, on holidays in EE and encountered some massive locals who were gagging to turn myself and friend into a thin paste, rather than responding in anyway to what they were saying (even when they spoke english to us) just kept giving them smokes until they got bored.
Probably wouldn't have worked on an out and out scumbag but a lot of the time there is a weird thing where they have to feel justified in kicking the head off you so you have to avoid offense at all costs without appearing scared. Kinda like dealing with a large aggressive dog

hatrickpatrick · 26-11-2015 9:02pm

I know I go on about this, but f*ck it this needs to be said time and time again.

These guys will get next to nothing in terms of jail time or proper punishments. All they will walk away from court with is an affirmation that you can be a complete scumbag in Ireland and you'll get away with it.

I find it quite unfair when people blame the Gardai for lack of action. In my experience, the no-go areas where scumbaggery has a blind eye turned to it are such only because the Gardai got sick of putting in grunt work to track and catch these assholes, only for idiot judges to let them immediately back out to freely roam the streets.

I read an article earlier about a murder in Fairview Park back in the early 80s, in which all perpetrators got suspended sentences - so it would seem that our culture of total impunity for crime is not a recent phenomenon but something ingrained in Irish society. Until this changes, scumbags like these will continue to ruin both the lives of their victims, and the lives of the ordinary people living nearby who have to put up with their area of the city being regarded as "rough" because criminals who operate there are not removed and locked up. :mad:

DFGrange · 26-11-2015 9:31pm

Pat Mustard wrote: »

It's not nice to have to be careful around people but it's safer than letting the wrong sort of person get in close enough to be able to attack. Being alert is a good thing, especially when approached by a group, late at night.

I'd compare it to how'd you react to a pack of stray dogs. Don't show aggression but don't show fear, keep some distance and don't try pet them.

Bongalongherb · 26-11-2015 9:45pm

One poster here mentioned 'be spatially aware'. I know what the poor feller is going through especially near christmas. I myself unfortunately wasn't spatially aware a good few years ago and got my jaw broken in two places in Dublin and it was 1 week before christmas but was wired up for 6 weeks having to eat mush-liquid through a straw and beer was the only enjoyment I had.

Nasty thing to happen anyone not being able to talk properly and not being able to eat normal solid food. Nasty experience to go through, so I hope the young lad heals well and hopefully the wires can be removed in time for christmas eve/day, but he will not be able to open his mouth properly for another while longer but it will be enough to fit a potato waffle in just about, that's what I had when I got the wires removed.

I hope they catch the little sh!t that done it to that guy. Well they have CCTV footage I heard so with a bit of luck he will be found and locked up for christmas, Karma.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 26-11-2015 10:10pm

So much badness out there.

Corpus Twisty · 26-11-2015 10:25pm

BenedrylPete wrote: »

I think the 'do you have a smoke' thing in certain contexts is a sign youre about to get mugged.

If you answer back they take you for someone who doesnt recognize the situation/has no street smarts and therefore is a good target.

Ive had a situation where i was asked, i replied and an attempted mugging followed.
Made him think twice though, just with some intimidation, no attack took place but hands were raised. No mistake/imagination.

So 'do you have a smoke' in certain contexts might translate as 'are you a soft target'. Ignore the question look for exits and watch your back.

I smoke, and get asked for smokes a lot. I just say no. Yet to be mugged. Even by "scummers" who have asked. Maybe they just want to bum a cigarette?

26-11-2015 10:38pm

Youngblood.III wrote: »

Thanks, seriously Garda should be stopping groups of wasters about towns and cities late at night (the ones that obviously not out for social reasons)
Stop them, take names and tell them...."anything happens in town tonight we'll be looking for you lot to see if your involved"..can't be that hard.

Yep. We have to get out of the 'politically correct' mindset that has pervaded certain sections of society here and the UK and get back to logic and common sense.

saabsaab · 26-11-2015 11:49pm

My Dad who had been around a bit ,also used to say that a man/men approaching you asking for 'a light/cigarette/change' is an intention to suss you out for an attack. Advised to keep walking on and say you don't have it...Why bother engaging..

Have you a fag?......leads to assault

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