Republic and Northern Ireland will eventually be reunited, predicts Enda Kenny

Shea O'Meara · 09-11-2012 9:52pm

jasonmcco wrote: »

I agree it's only a matter of time and really hope it's in my lifetime.
The Brits who are around when the Island is united wont have to apologise for their fathers bad decisions just like you are never expected to apologise for your fathers and his generation who created the environment which allowed priests to abuse our children

Proud of being Irish i'm not i'm ashamed.

It's no longer the banana Republic but the paedophillic Republic.And will remain so until we confront the abuse that goes on especially within the families of Ireland.

Firstly, I am not Catholic, either way I cannot lay blame on every member of the Priesthood for animals who prey on children.
Secondly, nobody has to apologise for their fathers as you put it, British or Irish. Should we still be bitching at the Germans for Hitler, for invading much of Europe or the British for inventing concentration camps, commiting genocides, invading pretty much everywhere else??
One cannot hold your average person on the street accountable for any of the above. I've never voted for FFail, but I'm paying the cost for their financial crisis, go figure.

Unwanted guests or not; we should at least be civil to our Irish friends up north who for some reason best beknownst to themselves still consider themselves British

woodoo · 09-11-2012 10:42pm

junder wrote: »

If anybody refers to me as Irish, i politely correct them

I'd say eyes roll when you say that to your average person across the irish sea.

I follow the apprentice on BBC and i was reading the response to Maira Doran on it, it was 'irish girl this' and 'irish girl' that, no of mention of british at all. I know thats a bit of a tiny example but it just shows what the mainland British think of your identity. Its the same with McIlroy and anyone else for NI

Just type apprentice maria british or youngapprentice into twitter (results 0) and compare the results with apprentice maria irish (about 40 or 50)

junder · 09-11-2012 11:38pm

woodoo wrote: »

I'd say eyes roll when you say that to your average person across the irish sea.

I follow the apprentice on BBC and i was reading the response to Maira Doran on it, it was 'irish girl this' and 'irish girl' that, no of mention of british at all. I know thats a bit of a tiny example but it just shows what the mainland British think of your identity. Its the same with McIlroy and anyone else for NI

Just type apprentice maria british or youngapprentice into twitter (results 0) and compare the results with apprentice maria irish (about 40 or 50)

I'm not Maria doran so how she is defined means nothing to me as for Mcllroy he seems quite proud to celebrate his northern Irish idenity since he refused a tricolour but accepted a northern Irish flag. Even his mum baked him a cake with the northern Irish flag on it, to celebrate his victory and I do believe Mcllroy was raised Roman Catholic.

krustovski · 11-11-2012 4:31am

getz wrote: »

the only way in the near future i could see it is if the euro zone goes tits up /so that could be the start of the collapse,then both the UK and ireland would be looking at each other for a closer ties,

the way things are i think this would be the best situation we could hope for,if britain leaves the e.u where would that leave ireland?under pressure to follow suit eventually i would imagine.France and Germany want a united states of europe which i cant see britain ever joining.
As for that maria doran situation,its just another example of whether your unionist/nationalist from the north or a southern person a paddy is a paddy in the eyes of mainland british people whether unionists like it or not

krustovski · 11-11-2012 4:56am

jasonmcco wrote: »

I

Membership of the British Isles is a geographical reality so whether we like it or not we are British. Before the ignorant rise remember that doesnt make us English.

youve made some very good points on this tread and a lot i tend to agree with but that statement is the most ignorant thing ive ever read,and why when this topic comes up paedo priests always comes into it,the vatican is to blame for their coverups,its nothing to do with politics,im sure abuse went/goes on in other religous groups,its rampant if not worse in the amish community,if an amish member comes forward with an allegation true or not they are shuned by their family and community

RMD · 11-11-2012 5:31pm

krustovski wrote: »

the way things are i think this would be the best situation we could hope for,if britain leaves the e.u where would that leave ireland?under pressure to follow suit eventually i would imagine.France and Germany want a united states of europe which i cant see britain ever joining.
As for that maria doran situation,its just another example of whether your unionist/nationalist from the north or a southern person a paddy is a paddy in the eyes of mainland british people whether unionists like it or not

A united states of Europe would never work, there isn't a common language.

Ellis Dee · 11-11-2012 5:37pm

I never wavered in my faith that one day we'd have a United Ireland - until Enda promised we would. Now I'm not so sure.:eek::eek::eek:

Ellis Dee · 11-11-2012 5:43pm

RMD wrote: »

A united states of Europe would never work, there isn't a common language.

According to that logic, the federal state of India shouldn't work, either, but it's doing fine.:)

Mind you, the Indians do have a universal medium of misunderstanding. It's called English and the proportion of the population that speaks it fluently is actually smaller than the proportion of the total European population who speak excellent English. The French will protest like hell as English takes over as the common European language, but the English in which they do their protesting is getting better every day.:D:D

Thomas_I · 12-11-2012 10:51am

Ellis Dee wrote: »

According to that logic, the federal state of India shouldn't work, either, but it's doing fine.:)

Mind you, the Indians do have a universal medium of misunderstanding. It's called English and the proportion of the population that speaks it fluently is actually smaller than the proportion of the total European population who speak excellent English. The French will protest like hell as English takes over as the common European language, but the English in which they do their protesting is getting better every day.:D:D

I see it rather different to compare India, which was an British colony for a long time with the EU in which the member states have a different history and English wasn´t imposed on them by colonial rule as in India. The English language became the place it holds today by the efforts and the influence of the English and the Americans. So that it is now, the world language number one on international affairs and moreover in trade.

Have you ever heard about "Esperanto"? It´s an artificial created European language which just a few enthusiasts in the EU learned to speak. So much for the attempt of creating something similar of the EU on the basis of the USA.

krustovski · 12-11-2012 11:20am

RMD wrote: »

A united states of Europe would never work, there isn't a common language.

the e.u seems to be working(well you know what i mean)well with no common language,why wouldnt a u.s.e work

View · 12-11-2012 1:25pm

RMD wrote: »

A united states of Europe would never work, there isn't a common language.

You mean, the way Switzerland could never work?

junder · 12-11-2012 2:30pm

View wrote: »

You mean, the way Switzerland could never work?

I would say there is a slight difference between a small country and huge European super state

Iwasfrozen · 12-11-2012 2:55pm

junder wrote: »

I would say there is a slight difference between a small country and huge European super state

It's no bigger then India but as another poster pointed out that seems to be working all right.

View · 12-11-2012 3:42pm

junder wrote: »

I would say there is a slight difference between a small country and huge European super state

The point was a common language may be helpful but it is not essential - the absence of "Swiss" hasn't stopped Switzerland working.

Likewise, should the EU eventually evolve into a "super Switzerland" in the future, the absence of "European" may be awkward but it is unlikely to prove an insurmountable obstacle.

T runner · 13-11-2012 2:02pm

smcgiff wrote: »

Seriously?

I agree there is little active unionism in the ROI, but there is far from enough Nationalism in NI to support reunification with the south. There is strategic voting by catholics for the SDLP and SF to better their community, but they'd run a mile if there was a vote on whether to unite with the ROI politically. Economically the ROI is in a very bad condition. NI's economy is very much supported by GB, and the vast majority in the north will not upset the apple cart.

I presume everyone interested enough in this thread are aware of the polls in the north re constitutional preferences.

Enda is a politician - he said something he thought would be popular.

I don't think the island of ireland is likely to join the uk, but north south union is even less likely. The partition of ireland is coming up to its first century - it's bedded in.

I think a change in the political make up of the UK is far more likely with Scotland potentially breaking away. NI's position in UK is very much as a dependency and it is unsustaineable. If all of Ireland was to join the UK again you would have an even larger dependency within 40 years. Ireland as part of the UK is unsustaineable economically as well as politically. Always has been.

The main barrier to a united Ireland is simply anti-catholicism on all levels (doctrinal, as well as social) in unionist controlled NI society. Unionists are starting to see that they need Catholic support in NI to stay in the Union.
Its very difficult to change a culture which has been fostered to hold these views literally over centuries.

I think the DUP has out thought Sinn Fein here. By accepting NI (grabbing power) they will create a generation who see themselves as Northern Irish. Youre either for or against your state and this will weaken resolve for a UI which on both sides of the border is now only officially an aspiration.

If the Unionists cant deliver an end to the sectarian culture then they may not make inroads into the loyalties of Northern Catholics.

The move now is to create a Northern Irish identity and try to channel anti-catholicism/anti-Irish sentiments onto the residents of the ROI and not onto the Catholic residents of NI. Making peace with Catholics on the Island of Ireland as a whole removes the real major barrier to a United Ireland.

I dont see a referendum being passed in NI for another 50 years if teh status quo remains. If Scotland leaves the UK then a UI starts to look likely. R of Ireland within the UK is as likely as Iceland within the UK.

krustovski · 13-11-2012 4:56pm

heres a bit of a mad thought,correct me if im wrong cos im not 100% sure of the figures but if you were to look at the island as a whole SF are the largest party

junder · 13-11-2012 6:35pm

T runner wrote: »

I think a change in the political make up of the UK is far more likely with Scotland potentially breaking away. NI's position in UK is very much as a dependency and it is unsustaineable. If all of Ireland was to join the UK again you would have an even larger dependency within 40 years. Ireland as part of the UK is unsustaineable economically as well as politically. Always has been.

The main barrier to a united Ireland is simply anti-catholicism on all levels (doctrinal, as well as social) in unionist controlled NI society. Unionists are starting to see that they need Catholic support in NI to stay in the Union.
Its very difficult to change a culture which has been fostered to hold these views literally over centuries.

I think the DUP has out thought Sinn Fein here. By accepting NI (grabbing power) they will create a generation who see themselves as Northern Irish. Youre either for or against your state and this will weaken resolve for a UI which on both sides of the border is now only officially an aspiration.

If the Unionists cant deliver an end to the sectarian culture then they may not make inroads into the loyalties of Northern Catholics.

The move now is to create a Northern Irish identity and try to channel anti-catholicism/anti-Irish sentiments onto the residents of the ROI and not onto the Catholic residents of NI. Making peace with Catholics on the Island of Ireland as a whole removes the real major barrier to a United Ireland.

I dont see a referendum being passed in NI for another 50 years if teh status quo remains. If Scotland leaves the UK then a UI starts to look likely. R of Ireland within the UK is as likely as Iceland within the UK.

I think it is you that are predejudice, since almost all your posts on the subject of Northern Ireland are an attack on the unionist community, you conisistantly make unfounded generalisations about the entire unionist community that have no actual basis in fact. moreovr if I had posted your post word for word and just replaced the words unionist for nationalist / Republican I would be getting accused of being sectarian.

Greenyfields · 13-11-2012 8:06pm

junder wrote: »

I think it is you that are predejudice, since almost all your posts on the subject of Northern Ireland are an attack on the unionist community, you conisistantly make unfounded generalisations about the entire unionist community that have no actual basis in fact. moreovr if I had posted your post word for word and just replaced the words unionist for nationalist / Republican I would be getting accused of being sectarian.

Let them talk, we have our own culture and way of life, we don't need these Southern Republicans talking bollocks about our way of life. For God and Ulster.

Crooked Jack · 13-11-2012 9:00pm

Greenyfields wrote: »

Let them talk, we have our own culture and way of life, we don't need these Southern Republicans talking bollocks about our way of life. For God and Ulster.

Face, meet palm

Thomas_I · 14-11-2012 8:29am

junder wrote: »

I think it is you that are predejudice, since almost all your posts on the subject of Northern Ireland are an attack on the unionist community, you conisistantly make unfounded generalisations about the entire unionist community that have no actual basis in fact. moreovr if I had posted your post word for word and just replaced the words unionist for nationalist / Republican I would be getting accused of being sectarian.

There are some facts, historically prooved on which the Unionist community is responsible for:

- they refused Home Rule for Ireland

- they went to London to get their own Parliament and government for Ulster by the British government and thus taking the first step towards partition of the whole of Ireland

- they set up an Unionist dictatorship in Stormont to suppress and deprive the Irish in Ulster of their civil rights and thus treating them like second class people, sometimes maybe worse than that

- they were in no way willing to take part in the negotiations on the Anglo-Irish-Treaty to reach a compromise in which partition might had been avoided

- they deprived the Irish from taking jobs in the civil service and were more eager to encourage them to leave Ulster / NI for either the Irish Republic or anywhere else abroad

- they showed no real sense of democracy beyond their own kind

- they only had been brought to realise that it´s necessary to live together with their Irish neighbours after decades of the troubles and still they can´t let go their provoking marches through Catholic areas to commemorate an event which is beyond any reason for the 21st Century to make such a fuss of it

- they have given the British a bad name by using their dependency to the Union to justify any kind of injustice they brought upon the Irish in NI in the way of their own sectarianism

Now you can tell me which of these points are not true or unfair?

If all of this is a way of life some of your fellowmen are proud of, I rather feel pity of all the other people who call themselves British citizens because they might rather be ashamed upon the abuse of the term "British" by a die-hard minority with an attitude that is rather to be described as being medieval.

I´ve very rarely read or heard anything about such problems the Irish had in Britain and they mostly live together with their English, Scottish or Welsh neighbours without such troubles as they had to endure in NI. Doesn´t this lead you to take up any consideration about the past and the present in NI?

COYW · 14-11-2012 1:39pm

RMD wrote: »

A united states of Europe would never work, there isn't a common language.

English (British English) is the language of business and it is widely spoken throughout the EU. I have travelled through or dealt with most countries in the EU at the stage and English is the consistently prominent. Most EU countries have the language as L1 or L2. I am very much pro-USE (United States of Europe) as I believe it is the most stable future for us as a country and the EU as a body.

In relation to unity within the island. I have been paying a fair amount of attention to television up North lately and from my perspective, the two communities up North seem to have an awful lot of things left to sort out before trying to integrate with anyone else. The programme on sport funding last night showed clearly that the old bigotry can surface anytime and any place up there.

junder · 14-11-2012 1:39pm

Thomas_I wrote: »

There are some facts, historically prooved on which the Unionist community is responsible for:

- they refused Home Rule for Ireland

- they went to London to get their own Parliament and government for Ulster by the British government and thus taking the first step towards partition of the whole of Ireland

- they set up an Unionist dictatorship in Stormont to suppress and deprive the Irish in Ulster of their civil rights and thus treating them like second class people, sometimes maybe worse than that

- they were in no way willing to take part in the negotiations on the Anglo-Irish-Treaty to reach a compromise in which partition might had been avoided

- they deprived the Irish from taking jobs in the civil service and were more eager to encourage them to leave Ulster / NI for either the Irish Republic or anywhere else abroad

- they showed no real sense of democracy beyond their own kind

- they only had been brought to realise that it´s necessary to live together with their Irish neighbours after decades of the troubles and still they can´t let go their provoking marches through Catholic areas to commemorate an event which is beyond any reason for the 21st Century to make such a fuss of it

- they have given the British a bad name by using their dependency to the Union to justify any kind of injustice they brought upon the Irish in NI in the way of their own sectarianism

Now you can tell me which of these points are not true or unfair?

If all of this is a way of life some of your fellowmen are proud of, I rather feel pity of all the other people who call themselves British citizens because they might rather be ashamed upon the abuse of the term "British" by a die-hard minority with an attitude that is rather to be described as being medieval.

I´ve very rarely read or heard anything about such problems the Irish had in Britain and they mostly live together with their English, Scottish or Welsh neighbours without such troubles as they had to endure in NI. Doesn´t this lead you to take up any consideration about the past and the present in NI?

And which unionists are you talking about, I'm I guility of those things since I am a unionist? ( which would a neat trick, time machine and a bit of omnipotence to get around everywhere) or are you assigning a collective to the entire unionist community, if that's the case then the same conditions have to be applied to republicans.

Thomas_I · 14-11-2012 1:53pm

junder wrote: »

And which unionists are you talking about, I'm I guility of those things since I am a unionist? ( which would a neat trick, time machine and a bit of omnipotence to get around everywhere) or are you assigning a collective to the entire unionist community, if that's the case then the same conditions have to be applied to republicans.

I´m not talking about guilt in any way and so I wasn´t referring to you personally. What I´ve listed are just a couple of historical facts and therefore parts of what caused the problems in NI. I´m not assigning a collective to the entire unionist community as being "guilty" if that´s what you mean. What makes it so hard to you to see both sides of the problem, those acting and those re-acting and vice versa? As every person is responsible for his own doings, why shouldn´t they be excluded? To be responsible doesn´t automatically refer to "guilt" it refers to the ability to reflect and re-consider ones own doing. This applies for both sides.

You might know yourself very well who these die-hard unionists were in the history of your country, or if you like your unionist community. I was talking about the past, not the present time in which there has been some improvements made, but the road to achieve them was a very long one. Wouldn´t you agree on that?

Thomas_I · 14-11-2012 2:10pm

COYW wrote: »

... I am very much pro-USE (United States of Europe) as I believe it is the most stable future for us as a country and the EU as a body...

Some improvements would had to be made regarding the EU before I´d agree to a United States of Europe. The question in this USE is whether the people would accept an complete European federal government with an elected head of that state and ministers. I think that this is what many people rather fear than welcome.

COYW · 14-11-2012 2:14pm

Thomas_I wrote: »

Some improvements would had to be made regarding the EU before I´d agree to a United States of Europe. The question in this USE is whether the people would accept an complete European federal government with an elected head of that state and ministers. I think that this is what many people rather fear than welcome.

I think it would be beneficial for us as a country, considering our record in self-governance from a financial perspective.

firemansam4 · 15-11-2012 1:16am

I don't think many Catholics in the North would reject A united Ireland on economic grounds, maybe a small percentage would but not as many as being suggested in previous posts. I think given a real opportunity to unite this Island the nationalist community would not turn down that chance.
I think it will happen one day, and would love to see it happen in my lifetime.

NIMAN · 15-11-2012 1:21am

Would love to see it in my lifetime, but it won't happen.

For a start, too many Nationalists would vote to stay in the UK.

Republic and Northern Ireland will eventually be reunited, predicts Enda Kenny

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