Brendan Drumm gets €70,000 bonus

brandon_flowers · 14-10-2009 9:33am #1

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hse-chief-gets-euro70000-performancerelated-bonus-for-2007-1912571.html

HEALTH Service Executive (HSE) chief Brendan Drumm has received a €70,000 bonus which will bring his total salary package to more than €500,000 this year.
The HSE board gave the go-ahead to the bonus for Prof Drumm based on his performance in 2007, despite health spending having to be slashed by €800m in 2010, it was revealed yesterday.
The bonus, which can be up to €80,000 as part of his contract package, has been outstanding for some time and has now been granted following an application to the HSE's remuneration committee.
Prof Drumm, who is stepping down as HSE chief executive next summer when his five year contract is up, is guaranteed to get another academic post worth around €280,000.
Since he took up the post, he has received €180,000 in bonus payments, including €30,000 for 2005, €80,000 for 2006 and now €70,000.
This will make his salary package worth over €500,000 this year, at a time when the HSE is bracing itself for massive cuts in spending.
Prof Drumm receives a basic salary of around €371,000 , plus pension and car allowance, bringing his basic package to over €430,000. This is now being topped up with the bonus payment, which is based on a submission by Prof Drumm to members of the board outlining service targets that have been met.
He is on one of the most generous remueration packages in the public service and is expected to return to being a professor in UCD and a post as a consultant, possibly in Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children.
Bonus payments of €1.4m were paid on Prof Drumm's recommendation to his top managers in 2008. At the time the board expressed concern at the level of the awards of up to 16pc of salary, saying they should be in the lower range.

This is beyond a joke, he gets €70k into his pocket for being an absolutely useless sod at his job.

walshb · 14-10-2009 9:37am

Again, welcome to the gravy train that is Ireland!

I have nothing against Drumm, but to be honest, we need a leader, a businessman, someone with balls and courage to run the Health Care System; not a doctor.

enda1 · 14-10-2009 9:41am

walshb wrote: »

Again, welcome to the gravy train that is Ireland!

I have nothing against Drumm, but to be honest, we need a leader, a businessman, someone with balls and courage to run the Health Care System; not a doctor.

Michael O'Leary for HSE chief!

tallaght01 · 14-10-2009 9:46am

The problem is a businessman doesn't understand the human side of health. And Drumm obviously understands balls-all about money.

It's not Drum's fault the health system is cack. But he can't fix it, and he shouldn't be getting bonuses for pretending to fix it.

Laptop1 · 14-10-2009 9:52am

brandon_flowers wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hse-chief-gets-euro70000-performancerelated-bonus-for-2007-1912571.html

HEALTH Service Executive (HSE) chief Brendan Drumm has received a €70,000 bonus which will bring his total salary package to more than €500,000 this year.
The HSE board gave the go-ahead to the bonus for Prof Drumm based on his performance in 2007, despite health spending having to be slashed by €800m in 2010, it was revealed yesterday.
The bonus, which can be up to €80,000 as part of his contract package, has been outstanding for some time and has now been granted following an application to the HSE's remuneration committee.
Prof Drumm, who is stepping down as HSE chief executive next summer when his five year contract is up, is guaranteed to get another academic post worth around €280,000.
Since he took up the post, he has received €180,000 in bonus payments, including €30,000 for 2005, €80,000 for 2006 and now €70,000.
This will make his salary package worth over €500,000 this year, at a time when the HSE is bracing itself for massive cuts in spending.
Prof Drumm receives a basic salary of around €371,000 , plus pension and car allowance, bringing his basic package to over €430,000. This is now being topped up with the bonus payment, which is based on a submission by Prof Drumm to members of the board outlining service targets that have been met.
He is on one of the most generous remueration packages in the public service and is expected to return to being a professor in UCD and a post as a consultant, possibly in Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children.
Bonus payments of €1.4m were paid on Prof Drumm's recommendation to his top managers in 2008. At the time the board expressed concern at the level of the awards of up to 16pc of salary, saying they should be in the lower range.

This is beyond a joke, he gets €70k into his pocket for being an absolutely useless sod at his job.

This is unbelievable. We are a family of 4 grown up teens and we live on €400 per week social welfare money. Why doesn't he come down to this level for a week and see what the real life is like on this side of the fence!!! :mad:

topper75 · 14-10-2009 9:58am

enda1 wrote: »

Michael O'Leary for HSE chief!

He gave a Ryanair quit date didn't he? (can't rem what it was)

A guy like him won't retire to staring at horses in midlands meadows. I reckon he will get political. Could be interesting. He doesn't fit into the current party set up though. There are a lot of folks who don't like him. But there are huge numbers also who see him as a 'get the job done' man.

I was shocked at the bonus story on the news this morning. I was putting myself in the shoes of the relatives of HSE patients who cannot get proper treatment due to lack of funding. Not good.

yop · 14-10-2009 10:01am

jes*S this is unreal

enda1 · 14-10-2009 10:03am

topper75 wrote: »

....cannot get proper treatment due to lack of funding. Not good.

It is not due to lack of funding, it is because costs are too high.
Throwing money at a problem will not make it go away, just hide it.
Now that this money is not available, the problem is again rearing its ugly head.

mathie · 14-10-2009 10:08am

You can't blame him.
If you were given the job and salary you'd take it.
Blame the higher powers.

It's Staunton all over again.
Don't blame him, blame Delaney.

Staunton for President!

tallaght01 · 14-10-2009 10:14am

topper75 wrote: »

He gave a Ryanair quit date didn't he? (can't rem what it was)

A guy like him won't retire to staring at horses in midlands meadows. I reckon he will get political. Could be interesting. He doesn't fit into the current party set up though. There are a lot of folks who don't like him. But there are huge numbers also who see him as a 'get the job done' man.

I was shocked at the bonus story on the news this morning. I was putting myself in the shoes of the relatives of HSE patients who cannot get proper treatment due to lack of funding. Not good.

+1 about the patients on waiting lists, while he's pocketing all this cash.

But I'd disagree about cut throat businessmen being better at running health. Someone in there needs to understand medicine. Though maybe someone with experience of running a private hospital might be an idea.

Just as an example....in the UK, they brought this bloke in as part of a TV show to make a hospital more efficient. Sir Gerry something.

He didn't understand health. His results looked good, though. But the clinical staff were despairing. For example, he was complaining that the surgeons weren't operating on fridays. He thought they were lazy. When, if at all possible, people don't do big surgery on fridays because the hospitals run at skeleton staff on weekends. So, when these people run into cmplications on a saturday, there's no one around.

The solution to this might be to make more people work weekends. Or to do low risk surgery on fridays. But he was having none of it. The public like to see someone taking on the lazy consultants, so he just insisted they did their normal operations on fridays. He wouldn't listen to the clinical staff. He thinks we all sit on our arses on fridays if we're not doing ops. When the reality is that friday and monday are our busiest days of the week. There were many more examples. Business people think about the money. But health is about so much more.

I don't know the answer. But Michael O' Leary charging to have optional stitches put in after your op will just lead to a bigger hit on the poor,

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 14-10-2009 10:18am

brandon_flowers wrote: »

This is beyond a joke, he gets €70k into his pocket for being an absolutely useless sod at his job.

Do you work with the man? How do you know he is useless? Please do keep those comments to yourself.

walshb wrote: »

Again, welcome to the gravy train that is Ireland!

I have nothing against Drumm, but to be honest, we need a leader, a businessman, someone with balls and courage to run the Health Care System; not a doctor.

And we should have a mechanic run the department of finance, a lumberjack to run our defence and a quadraplegric to run our sports... :rolleyes:

Doctor should be the only person in charge of the HSE, end of.

enda1 wrote: »

Michael O'Leary for HSE chief!

He would have us paying for every pea on our plates... no thanks.

mathie · 14-10-2009 10:20am

Christian Greasy Saddle wrote: »

Doctor should be the only person in charge of the HSE, end of.

Not a Project Manager no?

techdiver · 14-10-2009 10:22am

Christian Greasy Saddle wrote: »

Do you work with the man? How do you know he is useless? Please do keep those comments to yourself.

Oh yes, we have a world class health system under his tenure...:rolleyes:

Christian Greasy Saddle wrote: »

And we should have a mechanic run the department of finance, a lumberjack to run our defence and a quadraplegric to run our sports... :rolleyes:

Doctor should be the only person in charge of the HSE, end of.

Wrong. It should be run like a business by someone who knows how a multi layered private sector company works.

walshb · 14-10-2009 10:27am

I don't believe what I am reading here. The HSE is a business. It's a health care business and a business needs to be run by persons who have business brains, experience and leadership. Just because a person may not be a doctor doesn't mean he/she cannot run a business. There are many many persons running successful businesses throughout the world who are not necessarily experts in the field. They have business skills, people skills, leadership skills, delegation skills; are ruthless when they need to be and are fair when they need to be.

Drumm is a doctor. He is not a businessman or a leader or a motivator of people.

Now, I am not saying that a doctor cannot also become a successful leader of people, but in this case, Drumm isn't up to the job.

So, lamxavier, your attempt at patronising my remarks is null.

IBM for example. Who is leading it? It's not an IT specialist or Scientist
or Mathematician, not that these professions couldn't run it, but a salesman
with a business background is at the helm.

One of IBM's most successful leaders (Gerstner) hadn't the first clue about
technology, but that didn't stop him running the business

I could list other examples of business leaders running all sorts of diverse businesses

Anyone here think Richard Branson is an airline specialist?

He is not, he is an entrepreneur

enda1 · 14-10-2009 10:32am

Christian Greasy Saddle wrote: »

Do you work with the man? How do you know he is useless? Please do keep those comments to yourself.

And we should have a mechanic run the department of finance, a lumberjack to run our defence and a quadraplegric to run our sports... :rolleyes:

Doctor should be the only person in charge of the HSE, end of.

He would have us paying for every pea on our plates... no thanks.

No need to make fun of our crippled friends now :P

Seriously though, your analogies don't stack up.
What is the function of the HSE?

It is to provide a health service in this country - handling an immense budget and using this to provide the highest quality of service to the most amount of people at the lowest cost.

What the hell does a doctor know about this? A doctor might have an inkling about what constitutes a high quality of service, but really only knows a very small part of this. But what are they to know about how to manage cost, make the complex decisions about service location, closing hospitals, centralising services, tackling unions, negotiating pay deals, etc. etc.

The job is way too important to give to someone who has not shown they can successfully lead people, manage money, plan, negotiate, strategise etc.

Doctor, no thanks.

And you already pay for every pea on your plate. Have you looked at the cost of spending a night in general admission?!

tallaght01 · 14-10-2009 10:34am

walshb wrote: »

I don't believe what I am reading here. The HSE is a business. It's a health care business and a business needs to be run by persons who have business brains, experience and leadership. Just because a person may not be a doctor doesn't mean he/she cannot run a business. There are many many persons running successful businesses throughout the world who are not necessarily experts in the field. They have business skills, people skills, leadership skills, delegation skills; are ruthless when they need to be and are fair when they need to be.

Drumm is a doctor. He is not a businessman or a leader or a motivator of people.

Now, I am not saying that a doctor cannot also become a successful leader of people, but in this case, Drumm isn't up to the job.

So, lamxavier, your attempt at patronising my remarks is null.

IBM for example. Who is leading it? It's not an IT specialist or scientist
or Mathematician, not that these professions couldn't run it, but a salesman
with a business background is at the helm.

I could list other examples of business leaders running all sorts of divers businesses

Anyone here think Richard Branson is an airline specialist?

He is not, he is an entrepreneur

But those businesses are all about making money. If health was just about making money, then a businessman would be perfect

krudler · 14-10-2009 10:34am

Christian Greasy Saddle wrote: »

Do you work with the man? How do you know he is useless? Please do keep those comments to yourself.

I dont work with Mary Harney but I could tell you she's useless at her job too

And we should have a mechanic run the department of finance, a lumberjack to run our defence and a quadraplegric to run our sports...

Doctor should be the only person in charge of the HSE, end of.

Nope, should be a business person, not a doctor, being the most gifted and well trained doctor in the world doesnt mean you'll know jack about running a multi billion euro operation

He would have us paying for every pea on our plates... no thanks.

This is just baffling logic, what do you think you get stuff for free as it is? Do you get free peas when you buy a tin of them?

techdiver · 14-10-2009 10:36am

tallaght01 wrote: »

But those businesses are all about making money. If health was just about making money, then a businessman would be perfect

Making money is essentially the same as reaching a target. The same ideology can be applied to a non profit organisation. You need to run the company towards a certain target. Within a private sector company that would mean turning a profit, but within the HSE that would mean running the business efficiently and within budget.

efb · 14-10-2009 10:36am

Maybe he got it for the accurecy in Cancer screening that year...

walshb · 14-10-2009 10:37am

From my understanding of the sham that is the service, a lot of the problems
lie in the fact that these doctors and consultants are far too involved with the
management and decision making and should stick to doing what we pay them
to do, serve the patient. Leave the running and business end to those with
the skills.

That guy Crown is a key example. He's a bloody celebrity and far too involved
with the management, creating issues and problems. Stick to the opertaing
theatre and oncology and leave the business to the those in charge

walshb · 14-10-2009 10:41am

tallaght01 wrote: »

But those businesses are all about making money. If health was just about making money, then a businessman would be perfect

Fair point, but the day to day activities of the HSE are very very similar to the day to day activities of any major business dealing with clients.

BTW, I did stress that a doctor can diverse and be successful. I don't mean to say that
only a person with a business background can do this. Some of the best brains in business never ever went to college. Look at Bill Cullen. He was born with it.

I have heard and listened to Drumm many times, and to me, he comes
across a weak and too damn nice. We need a mover, a shaker, someone
who can exert influence and motivate. He doesn't come across to me
as all that. Looks can be deceiving, but all I have to go on is the state
the HSE is in and at the moment, he's at the helm

AckwelFoley · 14-10-2009 10:46am

70 grand for Brendan Drumm?.

Thats a bad beat

walshb · 14-10-2009 11:18am

I am assuming that Drumm accepted this bonus?

If he had any shame at all, he would decline this, and especially
in the current climate. But he, like the lot, simply
do not have any shame and will take and take as long as
this corruption allows.

Now, if he was really successful and making major improvements etc, then
I would have no issue with this, but the HSE is in bits and he has done
nothing to change this. But, the gravy train waits for nobody.

Didn't Willie Walsh from BA decline a months wage in July after the Terminal
failure? Now, he showed leadership here and accepted responsibility. That wage
was about 75k. He also declined a bonus.

The likes of Roddy and John and Drumm and many here in Ireland
will never show leadership or style or class or grace

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 14-10-2009 11:22am

mathie wrote: »

Not a Project Manager no?

That could work, if they were to co run it. Not on their own though.

enda1 wrote: »

It is to provide a health service in this country - handling an immense budget and using this to provide the highest quality of service to the most amount of people at the lowest cost.

What the hell does a doctor know about this? A doctor might have an inkling about what constitutes a high quality of service, but really only knows a very small part of this. But what are they to know about how to manage cost, make the complex decisions about service location, closing hospitals, centralising services, tackling unions, negotiating pay deals, etc. etc.

The job is way too important to give to someone who has not shown they can successfully lead people, manage money, plan, negotiate, strategise etc.

Doctor, no thanks.

Put a business man in his place and expect more closures and bad decisions.

A business man will make money, he will call his accountants and they will look at figures. Any other type of business I would say yes. HSE is too important to let the likes of Micheal o Leary run it. Oh they would save money, make great profits and all the rest, but people would DIE!!!

You need a doctors skill and understanding to have an input in the HSE. WTF does a business man know about running a hospital if they don't have any medical background? That's very very silly.

And you already pay for every pea on your plate. Have you looked at the cost of spending a night in general admission?!

Nope, doesn't cost me anything

Also, I bet it doesn't cost much more than a hotel or b&b

Taking into account the medical treatment you get, I say it's pretty cheap.

krudler wrote: »

Nope, should be a business person, not a doctor, being the most gifted and well trained doctor in the world doesnt mean you'll know jack about running a multi billion euro operation

Too many narrow minded opinions, thinking solely about money. What about the sick kids in crumlin, the cancer patients and all the other dying people? You think a business man is going to do what's best for them? Like fcuk he is... he will make cuts like a boner, he'd butcher it to bits. I rather a doctor run it, squander money and save lives than some thick skulled twat who would save money at the sake of somebodies life.

This is just baffling logic, what do you think you get stuff for free as it is? Do you get free peas when you buy a tin of them?

I do when it's buy one get one free in dunnes.

techdiver wrote: »

Making money is essentially the same as reaching a target. The same ideology can be applied to a non profit organisation. You need to run the company towards a certain target. Within a private sector company that would mean turning a profit, but within the HSE that would mean running the business efficiently and within budget.

Yup, lets make tones of money, but screw everyone while we are at it. You can't put a budget on a life. That's illogical.

walshb wrote: »

Fair point, but the day to day activities of the HSE are very very similar to the day to day activities of any major business dealing with clients.

Now I know you are taking the piss. As they are nowhere near the same.

Best way forward is a bit from A and a bit from B...

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 14-10-2009 11:23am

walshb wrote: »

I am assuming that Drumm accepted this bonus?

If he had any shame at all, he would decline this, and especially
in the current climate. But he, like the lot, simply
do not have any shame and will take and take as long as
this corruption allows.

How exactly is this corruption???

walshb · 14-10-2009 11:28am

lamxavier, you just aren't getting it.

The HSE is a business. A business. It's no different than a lot of other businesses

How can you broadly say that a businessman, or leader can not make
it successful?

It needs a leader, not simply a person who knows bloody medicine.
Drumm is a doctor, and to me, he hasn't the capabilities to
run this big organisation. The qualities needed are leadership, passion, delegation,
motivation, comms skills, negotiating skills and more. This is what makes
a successful business.

It's no different than any other business in this regard.

techdiver · 14-10-2009 11:29am

Christian Greasy Saddle wrote: »

Yup, lets make tones of money, but screw everyone while we are at it. You can't put a budget on a life. That's illogical.

If you are going to respond to my posts at least interpret them correctly. No where did I say the health service should "make tones of money". The health service is more than adequately funded, it's bad management that has it in it's current state. My point was that someone with a grasp of business can succeed in running the service without throwing more money down a bottomless pit.

walshb · 14-10-2009 11:31am

Christian Greasy Saddle wrote: »

How exactly is this corruption???

I'll tell you how. Taking ****ing money out of my pocket to rearwd a man who has done
nothing to deserve such a reward. If he had done a marvelous job, then I may consider it.

The guy earns 315 K for the job and perks on top of that and now I have to fork
out for a bonus. Are you for real? It's a con job, a gravy train and is happening far too
long in this hole.

orourkeda · 14-10-2009 11:33am

Scoops for everyone

Min · 14-10-2009 11:40am

We need a revolution in this country, the people at the top are way overpaid and removed from reality, there is no need for this excessive pay which the taxpayer has to pay for.

It is endemic when it comes to people who control the taxes to waste it among their own.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 14-10-2009 11:41am

walshb wrote: »

I'll tell you how. Taking ****ing money out of my pocket to rearwd a man who has done
nothing to deserve such a reward. If he had done a marvelous job, then I may consider it.

The guy earns 315 K for the job and perks on top of that and now I have to fork
out for a bonus. Are you for real? It's a con job, a gravy train and is happening far too
long in this hole.

No offence, but I don't see you sitting at the table during his PR... You or I cannot say if he reached his targets in 2007, obviously he did. Also, nobody was b!tching back then about anything... were they? (well a few people were.)

walshb wrote: »

lamxavier, you just aren't getting it.

The HSE is a business. A business. It's no different than a lot of other businesses

How can you broadly say that a businessman, or leader can not make
it successful?

It needs a leader, not simply a person who knows bloody medicine.
Drumm is a doctor, and to me, he hasn't the capabilities to
run this big organisation. The qualities needed are leadership, passion, delegation,
motivation, comms skills, negotiating skills and more. This is what makes
a successful business.

It's no different than any other business in this regard.

Hmm, I view it differantly than a normal business. You can't play with peoples lives. Lots of cutbacks need to be made, a business mind does need to look at it, I agree there, but definately not on his own.

techdiver wrote: »

If you are going to respond to my posts at least interpret them correctly. No where did I say the health service should "make tones of money". The health service is more than adequately funded, it's bad management that has it in it's current state. My point was that someone with a grasp of business can succeed in running the service without throwing more money down a bottomless pit.

You spoke about making money and keeping within budget, sorry if I misinterpeted it. I wouldn't expect the HSE to have a very strict budget, some things need to be scrapped, but when it comes to medical products and the like, the budget shouldn't really exist. If you understand what I mean. Of course, they shouldn't be buying the very very best in everything, you know?

Brendan Drumm gets €70,000 bonus

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