Irish Euro Gold and Silver Commemorative coins

Spocker · 03-09-2014 3:56pm

DMcL1971 wrote: »

So, did anyone pick up the new coin from the Central Bank? Does it look nice?

Waiting for it to come in the post, it's a shame the CB don't send on the tracking number when they dispatch coins..

03-09-2014 4:02pm

I picked it up at lunchtime yesterday, I really like the design, but don't like the finish on the coin.
It looks too shiney, I noticed that it's minted by Pobjoy Mint. Is this a first by them? or did they also do the McCormack Coin?

Backfire · 03-09-2014 5:53pm

Spocker wrote: »

Waiting for it to come in the post, it's a shame the CB don't send on the tracking number when they dispatch coins..

I got mine in the post today with cert number 479. :cool:

DMcL1971 · 03-09-2014 10:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I picked it up at lunchtime yesterday, I really like the design, but don't like the finish on the coin.
It looks too shiney, I noticed that it's minted by Pobjoy Mint. Is this a first by them? or did they also do the McCormack Coin?

The only other coins that the Pobjoy Mint did were the Monastic Art and Lockout coins.

DMcL1971 · 03-09-2014 10:41pm

Spocker wrote: »

Waiting for it to come in the post, it's a shame the CB don't send on the tracking number when they dispatch coins..

It would be nice but I reckon it's a bit too hi-tech for them.

Back at the start of 2013 they added a question to their order form to see if we wanted to receive the leaflets via E-Mail instead of paper. Nearly two years later the question is still on every order form but they haven't implemented the mailing list yet.

I don't think this coin is selling particularly fast, so the orders will probably ship pretty quickly though.

Ag4me · 07-09-2014 10:19pm

I've been a collector of Irish silver proofs for many years. Never had an issue with the quality until now.
Just found this thread and decided to sign up so i could comment.

The new John Philip Holland coin is terrible quality.

I got 3 of them, and they arrived friday. In just a few minutes of checking i knew there were problems with these coins.
I have taken several pictures of the defects but of course, with the boards.ie rules, i can't upload them.

I'll attempt to explain what i saw.....
Whether it's the planchets or the dies (i'm going with the die), there is a mottled, bumpy, pitted finish to the mirror field of the coins.
The edges of the design and the lettering have poor definition. They're not sharp. The metal is spread and uneven, like as if the die itself has worn (Pobjoy striking too many coins with the one die, to save producing extra dies, perhaps?).
And 2 of the 3 have dents on the face, and on the rim.
2 of the 3 have liquid stains (i say liquid because the stains don't have the tell-tale look of milk spot stains).

Overall, the worst minted coins the CB has commissioned, ever.
All mine are going back. And i'm not getting replacements. My guess is, a very large number are in a similar condition.
Shortcuts and cost cutting during production at the Pobjoy mint, and a lack of quality checking.
These are not proof coins, at best they can be designated brilliant-uncirculated.

Blade · 08-09-2014 1:50am

Ag4me wrote: »

These are not proof coins, at best they can be designated brilliant-uncirculated.

Impaired Proofs might be a better description? Anyway I'm glad you've signed up to comment, you clearly know what you're talking about. These recent Boards.ie rules were just to stop spammers, I think you need 50 posts before you can post links or photos. I'll send you a private message with my email address, if you could please send me these photos by email I'll upload them for you here so we can further discuss it. Or if you already have them online somewhere I can repost the link for you.

Shelmalier · 08-09-2014 9:14am

As a recent and novice collector of these coins I find all the posts on here interesting and informative. Ag4me's post is a particularly interesting aspect of the coins, production and their quality. If I want to inspect my coin properly as per Ag4me's comments is it always done through the plastic capsule or can/should it be removed carefully without touching it and do I need a magnifying glass to inspect it in detail or is it sufficient to do it with the naked eye?

Also, does the CB not mint their own general circulation coins in Sandyford? Can they not therefore mint a commemorative coin there and have they ever minted a commemorative coin or are they always minted by a 3rd party?

Blade · 08-09-2014 4:45pm

Shelmalier wrote: »

If I want to inspect my coin properly as per Ag4me's comments is it always done through the plastic capsule or can/should it be removed carefully without touching it and do I need a magnifying glass to inspect it in detail or is it sufficient to do it with the naked eye?

Also, does the CB not mint their own general circulation coins in Sandyford? Can they not therefore mint a commemorative coin there and have they ever minted a commemorative coin or are they always minted by a 3rd party?

They advise against opening the capsule at all so as not to let air pollution get at it, but I don't think it'll make much if any difference if you're just doing it for a few minutes in a clean environment. They would have been exposed to air at some stage before they were put in the capsules anyway. However there's no need to remove them, you can take one part of the capsule off, inspect it then flip the coin onto it's other side into the other part of the capsule, without ever touching it.

We don't know yet exactly what issues Ag4me is reporting until we see the pics. Haven't contacted him/her yet, will do shortly. But I don't think I'd worry too much about it if a magnifying glass is needed to see them. Haven't heard anyone else yet mention them so it'll be interesting to see. But yes if quality is poor I wouldn't be long about saying it to the people in charge.

In Sandyford they only mint the standard circulation coins, they don't have the facilities to produce any type of Proof coins.

Blade · 08-09-2014 8:32pm

Ok here's the post on behalf of Ag4me:

There is always a certain amount of slope immediately where the mirror field meets the design. But proof engraving limits this as much as possible, so a sharper line is achieved. It's usually not noticeable, that is to say it won't especially catch your eye when rotating the coin in the light. I find it to be very obvious on the coins i got. Now, I will say that to a beginner or someone just buying a souvenir issue, this won't be noted. Neither will the term "proof" matter much to them. But it matters to me - the bar is raised to a certain level when stating a coin is proof. And i make no apologies when using a certain magnification. A true proof should stand up to it.

For instance, look at this picture of the 2012 Hound. Compare the definition of the lines in the Hounds "15" to the "15" in the Holland coin below. That is the difference, for me, between coining a proof.... and not.

The pictures below are just a few examples of the loss of definition or spread of the metal. Due to wear-and-tear of the die? Or poor engraving process? There's nothing crisp or fine. The lines and lettering are all just so 'blotchy'

Pictures below show the cleaning and handling errors by the mint after the coins were minted. The first shows some dents. The second shows a stain. The third shows stains and a dent on the rim.

Sitamoia · 08-09-2014 8:37pm

Wow, just wow! :eek:

fritzelly · 08-09-2014 8:38pm

Was it just the one coin you got or the same on mulitple. - Edit Reread your comment and its all the coins, geez
It does look bad on the lettering and a dent like that certainly devalues it.

Blade · 08-09-2014 8:40pm

Certainly look like very poor quality "proofs" to me too. I don't have mine to hand to compare, but I'm sure the rest of you can let us know if yours are the same. It's possible his were weak or late strikes from worn dies but like he says there's also signs of very poor cleaning and handling after the striking.

Backfire · 08-09-2014 8:41pm

Sitamoia wrote: »

Wow, just wow! :eek:

Totally agree.

I have just inspected my proof coin using a small magnifying glass and it seems to be as sharp as the hound coin and nowhere near as bad as the holland coin in those photos. Those photos make it look like that's actually noticeable to the naked eye.

Shelmalier · 08-09-2014 8:59pm

I've looked closely at my coin under a magnifying glass and while I can see what Ag4me is getting at with regard to definition it definitely doesn't have some of the more obvious flaws that are in the pics. Does the serial no. reflect the point in the minting process when the coin was struck? My coin is 01333. I wonder if by any chance Ag4me has coins with much later serial nos. and would that mean they were struck later by which time the 'stamp' was blunted or less than 100%

I would certainly agree that anything the CB release should be up to the very best international standards of 'proof' coins and anything less should be brought to their attention. Maybe the less than perfect coins are the reason why they improved the case this time round and issued fancy CB bags in Dame Street?

Blade · 08-09-2014 9:20pm

Shelmalier wrote: »

Does the serial no. reflect the point in the minting process when the coin was struck? My coin is 01333. I wonder if by any chance Ag4me has coins with much later serial nos. and would that mean they were struck later by which time the 'stamp' was blunted or less than 100%

The serial numbers tend to be quite random even when you get a large batch of them together in one box. The packing is probably made by a different company and most likely all put together at the CB itself in Sandyford. Can't see there being any correlation between the cert numbers and the minting order.

DMcL1971 · 08-09-2014 9:38pm

The first thing that occurs to me is that my close up eyesight is starting to go, so thanks for making me feel old. The second thing is, I can't find my magnifying glass anywhere (memory loss and sight loss, I really am getting old). The third thing is that my phone takes lousy photos up close.

But from what I can make out, none of the coins that I have are like the ones that Ag4me has. There are no stains or marks and I can't make out any spread on the metal. However there is one thing that I am seeing on all of them and that is a small dent on the outer rim at the end of the spiral. In Ag4me's photo there is damage on the face after the end of the spiral as well as on the outer edge of the rim. On mine there is only a dent on the outer rim and it is barely noticeable.

Spocker · 08-09-2014 10:20pm

I have a small stain on one of my Holland coins, but as the others have said, it's no where close to the poor condition of Ag4me's coins(s)

I'd have no hesitation in sending that coin back to the CB as an extremely poor example of a proof coin

Ag4me · 08-09-2014 10:24pm

First, my thanks to Blade for kindly taking the time to make the post for me, pictures do help a lot.

And thanks to everyone for some interesting feedback.
Actually, i'm more upbeat to hear that Backfire has an excellent one.
There may be hope yet to get a good one.

It's interesting as well, Shelmalier's is only showing smaller signs of what mine have.
I too, think as Blade does, that the distribution of the cert numbers are a random thing. Well, except for the first 5 or 6 struck which get used for presentations.... you would want to ensure those!
But curiously, the numbers i have are 2882,2883,2884. I've never actually gotten 3 consecutive certs before.
I guess it is possible they are actually 3 consecutive coins from a batch struck when the die was at the end of it's lifespan.

Oh, and i got a response from the CB today.
The standard reply, 'sorry to hear you are not happy, you may return them for refund, etc'.
But that's really all the staff can say, to be fair.
She did say my comments would be passed to Pobjoy, however.
I would say to anyone who has noticed even the slightest defect, to report to the CB. Even if you decide to hold on to it.

Only by reporting to them can we ensure that the next coin will have a thorough QC check by whichever mint, at the insistence of the CB.

Gun_money · 08-09-2014 10:59pm

Trying not to travel to the fair 17/18/19 OCt
What are the chances of the 3 coin set being available after the fair?
Anyone hazard a guess of the price after the fair?
Going on the Double set Ivan Mestrovic coins is listed at $450/€350 (a bit excessive?)

More interested to see coin + travel expenses vrs retail price after fair
To see is it worth my while.....

Backfire · 08-09-2014 11:24pm

Hey guys,

I currently see these on sale on ebay at buy it now prices.

They are on my "to get" list.

Samuel Beckett (double set) €150 plus €10 pnp
2008 €5 Polar explorer silver coin (only 4000 minted) for €125 plus €10 pnp.

Are either of these worth these asking prices? I am tempted to get the explorer coin, I rarely see them for sale.

All opinions/info welcome

Blade · 09-09-2014 2:03am

Ag4me wrote: »

Only by reporting to them can we ensure that the next coin will have a thorough QC check by whichever mint, at the insistence of the CB.

Will you be going to the next coin fair in October? If so I would bring the coins then for replacements so as not to have to pay postage but also to speak to them face to face which will get the message across clearer. I would also print out those photos so that they can see the quality issues much clearer. They will listen to you and they will take it much more seriously if you do it this way rather than sending them emails, because as you saw there, they just gave you an automated type response. I will mention it to them too, because you're right, the Pobjoy mint is clearly not up to producing high enough quality coins and it's up to us to point this out for future releases.

Blade · 09-09-2014 2:19am

Backfire wrote: »

Hey guys,

I currently see these on sale on ebay at buy it now prices.

They are on my "to get" list.

Samuel Beckett (double set) €150 plus €10 pnp
2008 €5 Polar explorer silver coin (only 4000 minted) for €125 plus €10 pnp.

Are either of these worth these asking prices? I am tempted to get the explorer coin, I rarely see them for sale.

All opinions/info welcome

Too expensive, if you have the patience I'll give you a heads up when I see them available again cheaper. I think I know who's selling them at those prices on ebay, if you're going to the coin fair in Oct you should be able to pick them up for less, even from this ebay seller, if it's the same guy I'm thinking. PM me if you're going...

Blade · 09-09-2014 2:37am

Gun_money wrote: »

Trying not to travel to the fair 17/18/19 OCt
What are the chances of the 3 coin set being available after the fair?
Anyone hazard a guess of the price after the fair?
Going on the Double set Ivan Mestrovic coins is listed at $450/€350 (a bit excessive?)

More interested to see coin + travel expenses vrs retail price after fair
To see is it worth my while.....

That's anyone's guess and TBH more often than not I've guessed wrongly on similar releases. I'd be about 75% on them selling out at the fair. Even if they do sell out I don't think they're going to shoot up that much in price, maybe 150 Euro? given the amount of individual coins of each that everyone already has. I really don't think we can compare these to the Mestrovic's of which there was only 8,000 singles (was it?) Irish and the same amount which were only available in Croatia and therefore not easily accessible to people here in Ireland. Anyway 350 Euro is excessive for the double set, I would put them between 200 to 250 Euro in value.

podgeandrodge · 09-09-2014 6:38am

Anyone know the current value of the 2008 Antarctic Explorer double coin set (€100 gold coin and the €5 silver coin,1000 issued) ?

Thanks.

DMcL1971 · 09-09-2014 12:49pm

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Anyone know the current value of the 2008 Antarctic Explorer double coin set (€100 gold coin and the €5 silver coin,1000 issued) ?

Thanks.

I haven't seen one of these for sale for a while now. When you see them as a 'Buy It Now' sale on eBay or on Adverts, people are usually looking for over 1K for them. If you see them as an eBay auction they actually sell for less than that, they were fetching around 850 a couple of years ago. With the drop in gold price they have come down a bit but they are still valuable due to their rarity. There is a single gold for sale on eBay at the moment for 935 which I think is way overpriced. If I had to guess I would say you should expect to pay around 800 for the double and 750 for the single.

If you are looking for one then the coin fair might be your best bet usually at least one dealer will have one.

MasterSun · 09-09-2014 1:48pm

Gun_money wrote: »

Trying not to travel to the fair 17/18/19 OCt
What are the chances of the 3 coin set being available after the fair?
Anyone hazard a guess of the price after the fair?.

This would be the 1st euro triple coin set issued by the CB.
My guess is around 180, i have no doubt that they will be sold out at the fair.

DMcL1971 · 09-09-2014 2:34pm

Gun_money wrote: »

Trying not to travel to the fair 17/18/19 OCt
What are the chances of the 3 coin set being available after the fair?
Anyone hazard a guess of the price after the fair?
Going on the Double set Ivan Mestrovic coins is listed at $450/€350 (a bit excessive?)

More interested to see coin + travel expenses vrs retail price after fair
To see is it worth my while.....

It's a tricky one alright. My brother is in Galway, if he was to go to the fair it would cost him about 30-40 in petrol, 10 in tolls, 6 in parking, 5 admission to the fair, another 10 for a bit of lunch. So that would be 60 or 70 just to go to the fair. Not to mention spending the whole day away from home.

Even if the triple set sells out at the fair and he has to buy it on eBay instead for 200, it would be cheaper than going to Dublin specifically to get it. It is fine for people like me who live about a 20 minute drive from the RDS, but not so good if you are outside Dublin.

podgeandrodge · 10-09-2014 10:15pm

DMcL1971 wrote: »

I haven't seen one of these for sale for a while now. When you see them as a 'Buy It Now' sale on eBay or on Adverts, people are usually looking for over 1K for them. If you see them as an eBay auction they actually sell for less than that, they were fetching around 850 a couple of years ago. With the drop in gold price they have come down a bit but they are still valuable due to their rarity. There is a single gold for sale on eBay at the moment for 935 which I think is way overpriced. If I had to guess I would say you should expect to pay around 800 for the double and 750 for the single.

If you are looking for one then the coin fair might be your best bet usually at least one dealer will have one.

Thanks. I actually have one from when they were issued and was wondering what they were worth. Most likely will hold onto it!

Gun_money · 15-09-2014 5:43pm

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Anyone know the current value of the 2008 Antarctic Explorer double coin set (€100 gold coin and the €5 silver coin,1000 issued) ?

Thanks.

Last actual price I seen was €1050 for the Double set, but that was a while back. It will always be a case of supply and demand for prices on this set.

Irish Euro Gold and Silver Commemorative coins

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