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Child sex abuse - UK elite stayed silent

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    #92
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Oh there is, here's another. The last one I will post if you continue to use the evidence word, despite me providing several examples.

    ‘The main pressure police have is being called institutionally racist if they highlight a crime trend like this.
    ‘There’s a fantastic reluctance to be absolutely straight because some people may take such offence.’

    The words of Mick Gradwell, a former Detective superintendent in Lancashire, from last month.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346291/Police-chief-We-speak-Asian-sex-gangs-appearing-racist.html

    This is the first directly related one you've posted.

    It has to be said that the words of a former cop in the Mail isn't the most convincing thing you could have come up with. However, at no stage does he state or allege that the police were "Pretty slow to act" or that an investigation was delayed or avoided because fear of "offending 'cultural sensitivities'" as you put it.


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    #93
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Nodin wrote: »
    This is the first directly related one you've posted.

    It has to be said that the words of a former cop in the Mail isn't the most convincing thing you could have come up with. However, at no stage does he state or allege that the police were "Pretty slow to act" or that an investigation was delayed or avoided because fear of "offending 'cultural sensitivities'" as you put it.

    You're being silly there. When the guy says the police fear being seen as institutionally racist, it is basically the same thing.


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    #94
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    You're being silly there. When the guy says the police fear being seen as institutionally racist, it is basically the same thing.

    Allow me to bold the important part there
    " However, at no stage does he state or allege that the police were "Pretty slow to act" or that an investigation was delayed or avoided"


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    #95
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    The same town in North West of England, and another trial on the way.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143366/Police-uncover-second-child-sex-ring-Rochdale-woman-says-abused-years.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


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    #96
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    it must be dinner time........never seen so much tripe in all my life.....


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    #97
    Invader_Zimmy
    Site Banned Posts: 69 ✭✭Invader_Zimmy


    I am truly disgusted. Here we have liberals who are more than happy to cover up rapes by moslems to "prevent" racism. Are there no limits as to how low liberals will stoop? I consider every single liberal in England to be an accomplice to rape. They were the ones who were more than happy to sell England for 30 pieces of silver.


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    #98
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Invader_Zimmy wrote: »
    I am truly disgusted. Here we have liberals who are more than happy to cover up rapes by moslems to "prevent" racism.

    The men are in jail, so this is probably one of the worse cover up's ever.
    Invader_Zimmy wrote: »
    Are there no limits as to how low liberals will stoop? I consider every single liberal in England to be an accomplice to rape.

    Considering that there was no cover up, claiming that Liberals are accomplices, is a rather nasty little smear.

    BTW, Nick Griffin nearly got the case thrown out, when he tweeted the verdict early. In fact, his stupidity may cause future legal problems in regards to this case. Seems to me the far right are the one who have put prosecution of these men in danger and not liberals.


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    #99
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Invader_Zimmy wrote: »
    I am truly disgusted. Here we have liberals who are more than happy to cover up rapes by moslems to "prevent" racism. Are there no limits as to how low liberals will stoop? I consider every single liberal in England to be an accomplice to rape. They were the ones who were more than happy to sell England for 30 pieces of silver.

    Yer last few sentences are OTT, but you have a point about many of today's 'liberals', who are more worried about 'keeping face', than being consistent on these issues.

    Ann Cryer MP has already said that police feared being seen as racist, if they developed a no nonsense policy towards these gangs,and not many of her party colleagues seemed to back her up.

    I think it is too easy for a lot of upper middle class liberals to ignore thse issues, because it happens to girls who grew up in tough estates. A touch of NIMBY about it all.


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    #100
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    Yer last few sentences are OTT, but you have a point about many of today's 'liberals', who are more worried about 'keeping face', than being consistent on these issues.


    ......do please explain.


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    #101
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    wes wrote: »
    Considering that there was no cover up, claiming that Liberals are accomplices, is a rather nasty little smear.

    Excuse me, did you even read the thread? It has already been established that there was a cover-up. The liberal media are shivering in their boots at the prospect of being labeled racist for reporting the truth, so they turn a blind eye.
    Most agencies have publicly denied a link between ethnicity and the grooming of vulnerable girls as young as 11 on streets by criminal gangs of pimps. But in 17 court cases since 1997 where groups of men were prosecuted for grooming 11 to 16 year old girls on the street, 53 of the 56 people found guilty were Asian, 50 of them Muslim, while just three were white, The Times reported.


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8240202/Cover-up-claims-over-Asian-sex-gangs.html


    The first step of dealing with a problem is acknowledging that a problem exists. Now, do you acknowledge that there is an endemic problem of pedophilia among the Pakistani Muslim community in Britain? Please leave your own personal religious allegiances at the door.


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    #102
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    Excuse me, did you even read the thread?

    Clearly you didn't read the thread. As I already posted multiple times on it.
    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    It has already been established that there was a cover-up. The liberal media are shivering in their boots at the prospect of being labeled racist for reporting the truth, so they turn a blind eye.

    The men are in jail. Seems to me that there was no cover up, or that its the worst cover up in history.
    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8240202/Cover-up-claims-over-Asian-sex-gangs.html

    People making claims of a cover is hardly proof of one. Care to show evidence where the police or charties clearly state there covering up these crimes? Oh wait no proof of that at all....

    Strange how no one has provided such evidence. Just claims of a cover up. Go figure. So where is your proof exactly?

    BTW, just 17 case were looked at. Why not all the cases......? Also, if you read the thread (you clearly didn't). I already talked about that claim earlier.
    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    The first step of dealing with a problem is acknowledging that a problem exists.
    Now, do you acknowledge that there is an endemic problem of pedophilia among the Pakistani Muslim community in Britain?

    Oh please, Pakistani's are hardly the only ones engaged in this sort of crime, and the fact is that people like you only care about such crime when commited by one groups and are happy to ignore it otherwise.

    Also, yes there is problem with a minority of Pakistani men who abuse young girls. There hardly the only group however, and if you read the thread, you would have seen that:
    Grooming and our ignoble tradition of racialising crime

    --SNIP--
    Thus no official data exists on the ethnic or religious background of perpetrators of this form of child abuse, and local charities have stated publicly that they do not consider it a race issue. But it is worth noting that, when asked by the Times to collate its recent work according to ethnicity, Engage – based in Blackburn and one of the largest multi-agency organisations working on this issue – found that in the past year that 80% of offenders were white.
    --SNIP--

    So firstly, there is no official data on this. Secondly the above group found that 80% of offender are white. So I take it we will be asking question about "white" culture, and an endemic problem in the "white" community? Oh wait we won't because that would be stupid.
    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    Please leave your own personal religious allegiances at the door.

    Sure, when you leave you own far right allegiance in the same place.


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    #103
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Nodin wrote: »
    ......do please explain.

    For a start, Channel 4 had to withdraw the documentary (called 'Edge of the City', iirc) back in 2004 that highlighted Muslim men in the North West grooming young girls. If the political pressure wasn't so much at the time, it could have been shown and prevented many future incidents.

    For certain people in the establishment, they know well that these episodes highlights the negatives of a multicultural society, which is what my meant by 'keeping face'. From my time in Rochdale, you see very little social relations between different ethnic groups, very much cut off from each other. This goes against the misused word of 'integration' that multiculturalists like to use.

    One factor in the raping of these girls, was that the rapists obviously never interacted with whites in the area on a purely normal basis, and it highlights a strange sort of cultural inferiority. Not that clueless idiots like Keith Vaz would like to admit this.


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    #104
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    An interesting article showing how prevalent this awful crime is:
    Nearly one in four people experienced sexual abuse as a child. Why is this swept under the carpet?

    --SNIP--
    A predominant focus in the recent case of the sex gang found guilty of abusing teenagers in Manchester was on “Asian men” preying on “vulnerable white girls”.

    Yet last month, the alarming statistic from the NSPCC that a child is subjected to a sex crime every twenty minutes in the UK went shockingly under-reported, in one tabloid relegated to a tiny box on page twelve, as if it wasn’t even worthy of being considered news.

    It is in fact white men who are responsible for the majority of child sex offences in the UK , and in the greater Manchester area where this case took place, 95% of those on the sex offenders register are actually Caucasian. Yet rhetoric from various portions of the media reporting on this case included statements such as; “It has long been known that Asian men are associated with this type of crime”, and, “We can’t say that they haven’t got an issue in their community because we’ve now seen so many cases”.
    --SNIP--

    Above emphasis mine.

    So looking at the figure, this is clearly a huge problem in the UK in general, and yet we so many groups concentrate on Asian men alone, and ignoring the rather shocking over all statistics, of 1 in 4 people having been sexually abused as a child, which apparently doesn't warrant the same media attention or discussion.


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    #105
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    wes wrote: »
    An interesting article showing how prevalent this awful crime is:



    Above emphasis mine.

    So looking at the figure, this is clearly a huge problem in the UK in general, and yet we so many groups concentrate on Asian men alone, and ignoring the rather shocking over all statistics, of 1 in 4 people having been sexually abused as a child, which apparently doesn't warrant the same media attention or discussion.

    90% of Britain is white shocker!

    I usually find you a moderate, intelligent, poster, but you seem determined to only engage in whataboutery on this thread.


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    #106
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    I usually find you a moderate, intelligent, poster, but you seem determined to only engage in whataboutery on this thread.

    Its not whataboutery, when the following is being posted:
    'Cover up' claims over Asian sex gangs

    --SNIP--
    Most agencies have publicly denied a link between ethnicity and the grooming of vulnerable girls as young as 11 on streets by criminal gangs of pimps. But in 17 court cases since 1997 where groups of men were prosecuted for grooming 11 to 16 year old girls on the street, 53 of the 56 people found guilty were Asian, 50 of them Muslim, while just three were white, The Times reported.
    --SNIP--

    So the only way to dispute the above is present other numbers in regards to such cases. Its no whataboutery to point that Asian men commiting such crimes are a small minority, when other people are exagerated claims, which btw are also mentioned in the article I linked:
    Nearly one in four people experienced sexual abuse as a child. Why is this swept under the carpet?

    --SNIP--
    It is in fact white men who are responsible for the majority of child sex offences in the UK , and in the greater Manchester area where this case took place, 95% of those on the sex offenders register are actually Caucasian. Yet rhetoric from various portions of the media reporting on this case included statements such as; “It has long been known that Asian men are associated with this type of crime”, and, “We can’t say that they haven’t got an issue in their community because we’ve now seen so many cases”.
    --SNIP--

    Above emphasis mine. So it perfectly valid to point out the overall statistics, when groups are trying to association only Asian with this crime. Saying that discussing statistics like this, is whataboutery is bizarre, considering so many claims in regards to Asian men on this thread as well. Surely, pointing out statistic that contradict such assertions is perfectly valid given the context of the thread and various claims being made.


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    #107
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    For a start, Channel 4 had to withdraw the documentary (called 'Edge of the City', iirc) back in 2004 that highlighted Muslim men in the North West grooming young girls. If the political pressure wasn't so much at the time, it could have been shown and prevented many future incidents..


    There was no political pressure and the programme aired the same year. It wasn't shown in May 2004 at the request of the police, as the BNP were stirring the shit during elections. It was shown in August 2004.
    steelcityblues wrote: »
    For certain people in the establishment, they know well that these episodes highlights the negatives of a multicultural society, which is what my meant by 'keeping face'. From my time in Rochdale, you see very little social relations between different ethnic groups, very much cut off from each other. This goes against the misused word of 'integration' that multiculturalists like to use...

    As this is an Irish board, you might occassionally highlight you're referring to Britain.

    As a matter of interest, do you think the abuse and culture of silence that followed child abuse carried out by Irish Roman catholic priests and occassionally laity is a good argument against multiculturalism?


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    #108
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Nodin wrote: »
    As this is an Irish board, you might occassionally highlight you're referring to Britain.

    As a matter of interest, do you think the abuse and culture of silence that followed child abuse carried out by Irish Roman catholic priests and occassionally laity is a good argument against multiculturalism?

    No, but any sexual abuse is terrible. In the OP, I highlighted how there are worrying similarities of elites in both Ireland and the UK doing nothing, out of either a fear or subservience, if not both.

    The difference between this, and what certain priests were doing, is that a cultural superiority (or inferiority) element to what the perpetrators in Rochdale, and elsewhere, were doing - in that all of their targets were white. If many of these gangs are going on in Britain, then it raises serious doubts about whether the multicultural agenda is actually working. Note, this is different from multiracialism.


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    #109
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    steelcityblues wrote: »
    No, but any sexual abuse is terrible. In the OP, I highlighted how there are worrying similarities of elites in both Ireland and the UK doing nothing, out of either a fear or subservience, if not both..


    I can't imagine the UK government being either fearful or subservient to a minority community.
    steelcityblues wrote: »
    The difference between this, and what certain priests were doing, is that a cultural superiority (or inferiority) element to what the perpetrators in Rochdale, and elsewhere, were doing - in that all of their targets were white. If many of these gangs are going on in Britain, then it raises serious doubts about whether the multicultural agenda is actually working. Note, this is different from multiracialism.

    .....you'd have to show that they refused to target Asian girls in the same situation to prove a definitive cultural/racial bias on the part of the perpetrators. It way well be that the conservative nature of the community doesn't allow girls enough independence to be in the same situation as the victims. More generally. seeing as we've had cases of this in this country, I'm not convinced its a practice peculiar to or unusually prevalent to British Pakistanis.


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    #110
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Nodin wrote: »
    I can't imagine the UK government being either fearful or subservient to a minority community.

    The police - at least in the North West of England - certainly were, in regards to the Rochdale gang. The elite is not just limited to the government.


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