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Irish families to take in Iraqi families

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    #32
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    comongethappy wrote: »
    No.... They will forcibly evict you & your family specifically.

    Its all over the news!

    At least mothercare will do well from this, what with all the extra asylum seekers leaving their state of the art buggies at bus stops, whilst they take their free bus to get their free healthcare and collect their free taxi plate.


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    #33
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Surely these people could be displaced to a country that is somewhat similar to their own country? Moving a people this far away from their homeland to a country that is so far removed from their own is madness. The move should be simply for shelter and safety. Do they need to come all the way here for that? The have been through a lot, this IMO only adds to the hardship.


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    #34
    323
    Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭323


    Typical posturing by our government, anything to appear nice and likable abroad.

    Don't agree with this, believe charity begins at home.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



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    #35
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    323 wrote: »
    Typical posturing by our government, anything to appear nice and likable abroad.

    Don't agree with this, believe charity begins at home.

    More than charity begins at home it's probably not charity when you look deeper. Sounds like a great idea. Just like a lot of these do good ideas.


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    #36
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Amazing to see that people are against even a limited number of refugees being taken in, and also amazing that some of the same people don't see to realize that the vast majority of refugees are actually being taken in by neighboring countries and have been for the last decade, due the various conflicts in Syria and Iraq.


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    #37
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    sin_city wrote: »
    Has Saudi Arabia, Qatar or UAE taken any refugees?

    I’m sure they’d settle better in a middle eastern Muslim country.

    For assimilation purposes, I think it would be best to take in only Christians.

    Some might call that racist or whatever, but ask yourself this….Do the Japanese or South Koreans ever take in any refugees?

    I’d like to keep the amount of people coming in at a minimum.

    If you ever...ever...find yourself using the expression "racist or whatever" in relation to your own opinion then you probably need to do some self reflection, fast.


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    #38
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    wes wrote: »
    Amazing to see that people are against even a limited number of refugees being taken in, and also amazing that some of the same people don't see to realize that the vast majority of refugees are actually being taken in by neighboring countries and have been for the last decade, due the various conflicts in Syria and Iraq.

    Why take any? If it's not at all significant, couldn't they be kept with their people? Why ship them so far from home to a country so different form theirs? Just to say "we helped". Helped what? Gave them shelter and removed them from possible violence? I don't begrudge any human a chance to flourish, but sometimes we get it wrong. Not that it's that black and white here, but bringing Iraqis to Ireland for shelter seems OTT.


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    #39
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sin_city wrote: »
    The Japanese and Koreans have made a decision not to take into too many non-Japanese or Koreans into their country.

    Are they racist for doing so?.

    Essentially yes.


    sin_city wrote: »
    Many people in Ireland would like that when the country is struggling with debt that the last thing we need is to bring in people who will initially at least be a drain on the welfare state..

    If Turkey and Albania can take in Syrian refugees, I'm sure we can take a few Iraqis.


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    #40
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Nodin wrote: »
    Indeed. Considering the numbers of refugees taken in over the Middle East, taking in a few here is hardly a major undertaking.
    Nodin wrote: »
    If Turkey and Albania can take in Syrian refugees, I'm sure we can take a few Iraqis.

    I'm pretty well disposed to the Irish Government responding in this manner.

    Similar programmes worked out well for Vietnamese and Bosnian people in the past,however,the key to a successful and meaningful response is that it is within the scope of our resources to organize and fund into the future.

    It hinges on an agreed definition of what exact number constitutes "A Few".......;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #41
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    walshb wrote: »
    Why take any?

    Its the right and decent thing to do.
    walshb wrote: »
    If it's not at all significant, couldn't they be kept with their people?

    We are talking about refugees fleeing oppression. Yes, it would be better for them to be home, but unfortunately there lives would be in danger if they went back.
    walshb wrote: »
    Why ship them so far from home to a country so different form theirs?

    So that they have a safe place to live, until such time as they can return home....
    walshb wrote: »
    Just to say "we helped". Helped what? Gave them shelter and removed them from possible violence? I don't begrudge any human a chance to flourish, but sometimes we get it wrong. Not that it's that black and white here, but bringing Iraqis to Ireland for shelter seems OTT.

    How is helping out a small number of Iraqi's OTT? Surely, giving these people a safe place to live, until such time as its safe for them to return home is the right thing to do.


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    #42
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sin_city wrote: »
    If we’re going to take in refugees it would make sense that they have stuff in common with us.

    Like who? I'm struggling to think who would qualify.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #43
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    K-9 wrote: »
    Like who? I'm struggling to think who would qualify.


    Are there any Scottish Iraqis?


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    #44
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Nodin wrote: »
    Are there any Scottish Iraqis?

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/08/uk-pm-emergency-talks-over-foley-killing-201482013549620357.html

    Judging by the West Midlands/Northern English accent on the black clad butcher,there is every likelyhood of there being more from our "homeplaces" involved in the regions upheavals.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #45
    carpejugulum
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭carpejugulum


    walshb wrote: »
    I don't blame Myers if he does hate this. It's America and Britain's and the rest of the war mongers' mess. It's disgraceful that the west has caused this kind of misery and displacement of a people.
    The West created fundamentalist Islam?
    walshb wrote: »
    Cost a fortune this.
    Iphones for people on the dole here, beheadings for children in the third world!


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    #46
    syklops
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    I got into a taxi a few weeks ago, and got chatting to the driver. I asked where is he from and he said "Iraq, but I am Kurdish". When I was leaving the taxi he said to me "My friend, you are going drinking now?" and I said I am. He said "When you drink, drink to a free Kurdistan". So I said OK, and my toast for the rest of the night was "To a free Kurdistan".

    That was us 100 years ago.


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    #47
    sin_city
    Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭sin_city


    K-9 wrote: »
    Like who? I'm struggling to think who would qualify.

    People who don't have a problem with people that drink alcohol would be a start.

    Not much of a struggle really to think of that....

    As for people like Nodin who thinks the Japanese are racist you have the arrogant opinion that what you want is more important that what many in Ireland do not want.

    It makes far more sense for people to go to the Gulf states than Europe.


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    #48
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sin_city wrote: »
    ..................

    As for people like Nodin who thinks the Japanese are racist you have the arrogant opinion that what you want is more important that what many in Ireland do not want.

    It makes far more sense for people to go to the Gulf states than Europe.

    There is unfortunately a strong element of racism in Japanese society
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan


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    #49
    sin_city
    Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭sin_city


    Thanks for the clarification.

    Just for the record...you are calling a whole country racist?

    Personally, I feel they have different values and want to preserve them.

    China resisted western imperialism attempt just over 100 years ago.

    Africa did not and the scramble for Africa took place.

    Needless to say, Chinese culture is still in tact while now in parts of Africa, as what happened in Ireland the native languages are starting to lose relevance.

    Slightly off tangent but I am merely showing that being conservative and non interventionist is not racist.

    If the broke country that is Ireland is going to take in refugees who will add to the welfare bill, then it would be preferential that they are not part of a religion that is so anti alcohol considering Irish society.

    It would be better for these people to go to places in the Gulf...such as Saudi Arabia....surely they can afford it more than us also?


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    #50
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sin_city wrote: »
    Thanks for the clarification.

    Just for the record...you are calling a whole country racist?

    Personally, I feel they have different values and want to preserve them.

    China resisted western imperialism attempt just over 100 years ago.

    Africa did not and the scramble for Africa took place.?

    You seem to be factually incorrect there.

    Why are you conflating asylum and imperialism?


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    #51
    Irish Stones
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    I might be a bit off-topic.
    I don't know about Ireland, but over here in Italy we receive some 1,000 (one thousand) refugees from North Africa and Middle East every day, every single day.
    Sometimes the refugees rescued are 2,000 a day.
    They cost us a fortune (90 millions euro per month, partly funded by EU) and more than this they need assistance. They need houses, they need food, health care and instruction.
    That money is taken away from other needs for our people. My sister lost her job, she's not receiving from the State the same level of sustain, she struggles to give her two children a decent life.
    The migrants are kept here until a decision is made whether granting them asylum or sending them back. This decision can take up to 18 months to be made.
    Meanwhile some of them flee from the centres where they are gathered and start living on whatever is easier.
    News are full of illegal immigrants caught in bad situations, drug dealing, robberies, killings, rapings, and other kind of violent living. Some areas of the largest cities have been nearly taken over by people from countries with totally different cultures, and this gives some problems to the natives who sometimes are forced to leave their neighbours to make sure they have a safe life. One third of our inmates (22,000 over 58,000) in our state prisons are people from other countries.
    It's not racism, it's facts.
    Giving home to thousands of people from abroad, especially whole families with small children, requires planning and resources.
    Taking them here without a clear vision of the next few years is just gambling. Gambling with citizens' lives. IMO.


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    #52
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    carpejugulum wrote: »
    The West created fundamentalist Islam?

    Iphones for people on the dole here, beheadings for children in the third world!

    So why stop at taking in a "few" Iraqis. Why not adopt the whole third world?

    If that is how these countries run and govern themselves that is their business, and I guess, their right!


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    #53
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    walshb wrote: »
    So why stop at taking in a "few" Iraqis. Why not adopt the whole third world?

    Errrr, maybe we should! Seriously, it's a small number of families. It isn't going to lead to the flood gates being opened or anything like that. I know there's a wider immigration debate but I don't see how it relates to a humanitarian gesture like this.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #54
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,717 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    K-9 wrote: »
    Errrr, maybe we should! Seriously, it's a small number of families. It isn't going to lead to the flood gates being opened or anything like that. I know there's a wider immigration debate but I don't see how it relates to a humanitarian gesture like this.

    Fair enough. I just think that maybe these families are being displaced a little too much here.


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    #55
    sin_city
    Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭sin_city


    Nodin wrote: »
    You seem to be factually incorrect there.

    Why are you conflating asylum and imperialism?

    Nope man, you just misunderstood...probably like how you misunderstood labelling the whole nation of Japan racist for not taking refugees


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    #56
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sin_city wrote: »
    Nope man, you just misunderstood...probably like how you misunderstood labelling the whole nation of Japan racist for not taking refugees

    No, you compared granting asylum with imperialism.


    There is a strong streak of racism in Japanese society. That's a fact.


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    #57
    sin_city
    Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭sin_city


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, you compared granting asylum with imperialism.


    There is a strong streak of racism in Japanese society. That's a fact.

    I compared China 100 years ago closing itself from foreigners like Japan does today.

    Just because you say "That's a fact"...that doesn't actually make it a fact...I mean, that type of debating and arguing may work for you in places but it's not a way to win an argument.

    Anyway, I hope Ireland doesn't take in anyone from Iraq.


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    #58
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sin_city wrote: »
    I compared China 100 years ago closing itself from foreigners like Japan does today.

    ..............................

    Here's what you stated
    China resisted western imperialism attempt just over 100 years ago.


    Africa did not and the scramble for Africa took place.

    Needless to say,
    Chinese culture is still in tact while now in parts of Africa, as what happened
    in Ireland the native languages are starting to lose relevance.

    A - Africa (which is a continent, not a country) resisted Western Imperialism, thought not as a body.

    B- You start to imply that because (as you claim) Africa did not resist Western Imperialism, it lost its culture.

    C - You raised both of these examples of Imperialism and the example of culture loss in a thread about Ireland giving asylum to Iraqis.

    You are therefore conflating asylum and imperialism.


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    #59
    sin_city
    Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭sin_city


    You don't get the point I made at all. Not going to try to explain AGAIN.

    You're saying the whole nation of Japan is being racist for not taking in my refugees........I disagree with that and I think we'd be better off considering how broke we are not to take in refugees.

    Right?


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    #60
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    sin_city wrote: »
    You don't get the point I made at all. Not going to try to explain AGAIN.

    You're saying the whole nation of Japan is being racist for not taking in my refugees........I disagree with that and I think we'd be better off considering how broke we are not to take in refugees.

    Not what I said.

    Albania has taken in Syrians. I don't see that we're so broke we can't taken in some Iraqis.


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    #61
    sin_city
    Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭sin_city


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not what I said.

    Albania has taken in Syrians. I don't see that we're so broke we can't taken in some Iraqis.

    Albania is a mostly muslim country.

    Their debt to GDP is half of what ours is.


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