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Enda's And Richard's Support

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    #62
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    The meeting starts at 11.30 so the vote won't be until sometime this afternoon I suppose unless something unexpected happens


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    #63
    vincenzolorenzo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭vincenzolorenzo


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I still think people are overly harsh on Kenny. He's a good organiser, good face to face (even people I know who are staunch supporters of other parties say this when they meet him), had the sense to surround himself with talent rather than those who were loyal to him (i.e. the polar opposite of the current cabinet) and brought Fine Gael from being a party I (incorrectly) considered a mouthpiece for a vested interest group to a party proposing sensible economic measures to deal with our current economic situation, first steps towards a better electoral system and generally seemed like a more capable set of hands to have on the levers of power than his counterpart in Government.

    His failing is that he's not slick, not good in front of a camera / microphone and rather than just be himself and be honest about that, he tried to improve himself in this area on a very public stage. The fact that the Irish electorate holds this against him is more our failing than his, imho.

    All that said, I think he should be stepping aside. Even if he defeats the coup, he can never hope to bring the party to a majority in the Dail when so many of the electorate won't vote FG with him at the helm. As I've already said, I see this as our failing rather than his, but if he wants what's best for Ireland (and in my view and presumably his, a majority FG government is the best thing realistically on offer in the next election) he should step down and offer his talents in re-uniting the party to it's next leader.

    I wouldn't be a FG head at all really but this post sums up my views on the whole thing very well. Bruton has more polish when on TV but that doesn't necessarily make him a better leader for the country. Either way i can see this causing a fairly big rift in the FG party and thats going to take time to heal


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    #64
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    vincenzolorenzo wrote: »
    I wouldn't be a FG head at all really but this post sums up my views on the whole thing very well. Bruton has more polish when on TV but that doesn't necessarily make him a better leader for the country. Either way i can see this causing a fairly big rift in the FG party and thats going to take time to heal

    I don't see it that way at all - What's the difference between Enda Kenny on the News at One, parroting back slick prompts from a Spin Doctor and a Ventriloquists Dummy with its mouth obediently opening and closing on cue - in both cases the thoughts and expressed opinions are not of the Figure in questions own volition.......

    - Enda Kenny has always come across as though he was sawdust to the core, suspended by the extremities of his limbs and that hinged mouth flapping uselessly.......


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    #65
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Raiser wrote: »
    I don't see it that way at all - What's the difference between Enda Kenny on the News at One, parroting back slick prompts from a Spin Doctor and a Ventriloquists Dummy with its mouth obediently opening and closing on cue - in both cases the thoughts and expressed opinions are not of the Figure in questions own volition.......

    - Enda Kenny has always come across as though he was sawdust to the core, suspended by the extremities of his limbs and that hinged mouth flapping uselessly.......

    I'd agree with most of that, Kenny always did seem to come across as being a bit of a cabbage which possibly explains why many of the cabbages on the FG back benches support him. Bruton might be a bit too intellectual for a lot of the mucksavage brigade.


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    #66
    Mikefitzs
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Mikefitzs


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    I'd agree with most of that, Kenny always did seem to come across as being a bit of a cabbage which possibly explains why many of the cabbages on the FG back benches support him. Bruton might be a bit too intellectual for a lot of the mucksavage brigade.

    "mucksavage brigade." enlighten us all please?

    Just a passenger



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    #67
    JonathanAnon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,718 ✭✭✭✭JonathanAnon


    Newstalk are outside the meeting. They say that if all 70 members speak for only five minutes (and all members ARE entitled to air their views), then the meeting could go on for nearly six hours... There is unlikely to be an outcome before 4 o'clock at the least I would think.


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    #68
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Anyone outside the Pale?

    Not necessarily, not at all. Who knew someone would take offence to the word mucksavage when the target of the word was specific not general. It was aimed at the backbenchers who have expressed support for Kenny who obviously don't see that the man does not have the confidence or the support of the general public and who could ruin their chance of really giving Fianna Fail a good drubbing in the next election.


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    #69
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    For the record I do not live in Dublin.

    I was born and raised in a rural area.

    I despair at the notion that sections of the Electorate go out on polling day and vote on certain criteria including:

    Who was Candiate A's Fadder or Uncle - Despite the fact that said individual may well have been in Court for any number of offences (Contemporary case in mind) and have had all the depth of Character and integrity of a Slug.

    Voting purely on the grounds of Geography - Ah well sure won't that lazy, Mammies Boy Thug who never worked a day in his life who happens to live (or pretend to live) 3 parishes away get us a new GAA Pitch?

    - In summary there is a perception with good reason that Cute Hoorism is vibrant and unabashed in certain sectors and its fcuking criminal in its own right.


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    #70
    thegoodgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭thegoodgirl


    I really hope for the sake of the party and in order to win the next election that Richard comes out today on top.


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    #71
    Mikefitzs
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Mikefitzs


    Thanks for getting back to the topic. FG need a new young leader, someone appealing to the people. Someone in to sport, that knows what young people need, that knows what old people need, someone willing to get rid of the old type of Irish politics and embrace change (and get Mary Harney out of health before we all have to go to A&E in Tallaght because there'll be no where else in the country to get a few stitches.

    Leo Varadkar or Joe Carey....young people!

    Just a passenger



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    #72
    Pot Noodle =
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Pot Noodle =


    Any updates on the Power Struggle


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    #73
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    Pot wrote:
    Any updates on the Power Struggle

    There'll be no updates till later this evening. All 70 members are given the oppertunity to speak for 4 mins before they go to vote.


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    #74
    Pot Noodle =
    Registered Users Posts: 955 ✭✭✭Pot Noodle =


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    There'll be no updates till later this evening. All 70 members are given the oppertunity to speak for 4 mins before they go to vote.

    Thanks


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    #75
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Pot wrote:
    Any updates on the Power Struggle

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0617/finegael.html has snippets of news every now and then. It looks like the meeting is not even half over at this stage.


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    #76
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Idiotic side-discussion deleted. Multiple relevant formal reminders issued. As always, if you have a problem with a post and believe it to be reportable, kindly report it - idiotic side-discussions with multiple personal accusations are not an alternative to that as we don't have a vigilante training programme.

    On-topic please.

    /mod


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    #77
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    latest update from RTE

    16.01 Enda Kenny started his wind-up speech to his party's parliamentary party in the last five minutes, and a vote and a result is now expected within an hour.


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    #78
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Seems they won't release the numbers, just the result.

    Strange that the political parties representing our democracy tend not to adopt the highest standards of democratic values. Eg. Telling us how much/little support the winner has.


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    #79
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Kenny won.


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    #80
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    No numbers released and two Kenny supporters do the count?


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    #81
    dillodaffs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 67 ✭✭dillodaffs


    says who?


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    #82
    Kristopherus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    On RTE 1 TV now


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    #83
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    I'm not surprised that Kenny has won the vote but his position as leader is completelly untenable as far as I'm concerned. The majority of FG's talent has come out and said they don't have confidence in him. If they stick to their guns and say that they won't accept front bench positions under his leadership, Kenny will be forced out but I see there was a pre-emptive strike from the Kenny camp today with Jim Higgins coming out and saying that people have to accept the democratic decision. I've a feeling the Kenny camp knew for certain that they had the numbers and are now trying to put pressure on the talent to come in under his leadership. I thikn it'd be a massive mistake to do so.


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    #84
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Bad day for FG TBH.

    Now they've had their confidence crisis with no change of leadership they are borked.

    People still won't vote for a party with Enda at the top and it would look like the party was in major crisis if they have another attempt at changing leadership.


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    #85
    Wide Road
    Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    Wow, It now seems more like Richard ran too early and was badly advised. The timing was all wrong and his judgment has to be called into question. It will be an interesting few days in the history of fg because a front bench needs to be formed. This will show the voters if fg are in healing mode.


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    #86
    femur61
    Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    Kenny makes me cringe. I would have voted for FG but think Labour has probally got my vote now or independants.


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    #87
    Mikefitzs
    Registered Users Posts: 316 ✭✭Mikefitzs


    Well done Mr. Kenny but I feel your days are numbered as leader. You should bow out now and let in some young blood.
    There is no place in current politics for young people to get in the door unless you're already related to someone on the inside.

    FG get your act together sooner rather than later.

    Mr. Bruton, off you go now into the sunset and hope for Seanad seat.

    Just a passenger



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    #88
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    thebman wrote: »
    Bad day for FG TBH.

    Now they've had their confidence crisis with no change of leadership they are borked.

    People still won't vote for a party with Enda at the top and it would look like the party was in major crisis if they have another attempt at changing leadership.

    Exactly.

    Some of the Enda supporters trot out the old line "well under his leadership Fine Gael have increased the number of seats they have in the Dail" which conveniently forgets to mention that FG were so devestated in the 2002 election that given FGs natural support base the only way was up.

    With Bertie/Cowen et al having destroyed the countrys economy FG should be up around 38-40%, but they're not and even Labour are drawing ahead of them. As well as that Enda's approval ratings with the general public are nowhere near what they should be. Even with Cowen being the most hated politician possibly in the history of the state Enda is only barely ahead of him in the approval ratings with Gilmore being streets ahead.

    FG had the chance to break with their current staleness but instead the cabbages won. Its ended up being a great day for Labour and indeed for FF.


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