yourtel - Landline Phone Service

seanfheargrinn wrote: »

Scared of taking on Facebook, scared of taking on Yourtel, and scared of taking on big business in general eh!!

Rise up little people!!!

seanfheargrinn wrote: »

With respect that is wrong. They have issued letters saying that they have passed on the debt to a debt collection agency and also that they have informed the credit bureau of your debt default - to check your credit rating to see if they have actually acted on it, you need to pay a fee. They have passed the debts onto the debt collectors Crosskerry's of Merrion Square who have issued debt demand letters demanding payment within 10 days or threatening legal action if you haven't done so - PM me your email address if you want proof and I will readily send you on my example as well as the threatening letters from Yourtel.

I don't doubt you for a minute, but if your idea of 'rise up little people' and take on Yourtel is to keep paying them, well………

emeldc wrote: »

I don't doubt you for a minute, but if your idea of 'rise up little people' and take on Yourtel is to keep paying them, well………

What!!!??? With respect, where have I ever said in any of my posts to keep paying them or even to pay them at all? I never mentioned about paying in my own situation at all in any of the posts, please read back in detail through them to ascertain the facts instead of quoting tit bits and jumping to a false conclusion.

I even advised people that to keep paying the bills just encourages their behaviour....

Because in our situation, the refusal to pay a penny (and having cancelled within our rights on numerous times, and Yourtel not providing the voice transcripts), Yourtel have launched the financial terrorism.....

Regards

My father-in-law has gotten some bills from this lot.

The only item on the bill is flat rate monthly fee.
No calls at all (even though they have been making phone calls)

If I ring them tomorrow can I get the recording where he "agreed" to this?
I'm not 100% sure but he said he got something in the post from them but returned it with no details.

Surely after all the complaints, one of the requirements should be that they clearly identify the company they are calling from, and that they are looking to have people change provider.

Just got €75 back on another scam through the actions of Comreg so they're not all bad .. they have to process these issues correctly and if they've got Yourtel to issue cancellation policy notices then the opportunity is there (for many) to exit the 'contract'. Yourtel are using bullying tactics and it is 99% bluff so we need to call their bluff and help the elderly to do likewise.

This Yourtel crowd rang my wife last week with the usual spiel i.e. giving impression they were Eircom, offering cheaper calls. Now the funny thing is our landline calls are about €1.50 a month so I had to ask her how much cheaper was she expecting! I work from home and am pestered by both physical and phone callers and at this stage they feel the sharp end of my impatience .. one guy called to the door selling 'paintings' and when he got frustrated with my refusal to buy his 'life's work' he shut my door on me! My family give out to me for being especially rude to the 'Microsoft' man - they say he's only doing his job!!!!

Anyway a question - how did the Yourtel man have my wife's date of birth? Is that on the NDD?

They've been on to me. They told me forcefully that they had a valid verbally agreed contract for their services and offered to play back the tape (hint Mr. Yourtel - this is not a good start as the basis of a fruitful relationship). Anyhow they lost interest once I advised them (a) that even if there was a contract I would be invoking the opt out option and (b) we were not with Eircom! Apparently I'm the rudest 'customer' they have ever spoken to!! Personally I thought calling me a customer was pretty low. I suppose I should have told them I wasn't with Eircom at the start:(

'Here's the secret of my success
Never say yes, no, no, never say yes'
-Elvis

If you find that all your outgoing calls are blocked due not paying Yourtel and are living alone with a panic alarm in case of a medical emergency etc., then Eircom are very likely to arrange for your outgoing calls to be restored.

Any reason why 'dj060874' post was completely removed rather than edited to make it less Boards-get-in-trouble like?

Just discovered my recently widowed 77 year old dad has unwittingly been snared by these parasites. He has a demand for 365euro from a German law firm.

I'm so angry with Eircom for allowing this to happen so easily and with Comreg who seem to be next to useless.

He has no letter offering him to cancel as per the Comreg website.
Not sure of our next move yet.

Many thanks kerbdog, doing that just now.

Hi everyone! My mum got tricked by these last August. Infuriatingly they sent a clipped voicemail and she requested a cancellation in November by registered letter and under instruction of comreg in which she stated she wanted to terminate as she never consented and this was to be "effective immediately". Yourtel replied completely ignoring this and stated it was in process for when the 2 year contract ends in 2016. They have ignored our request for the full voicemail in which my mother states she has no interest and hangs up. What they send us is pretty horrifying, the guy wouldn't let her speak on the phone unless she said yes, wouldn't let her ask questions until he had finished his rant. She paid only the first bill because they sent a threating 'late'notice and decided she would investigate into it after that.
So after keeping an eye on this forum and speaking to eircom at xmas we went with the instruction of ignoring all communication from yourtel, so this meant not answering phonecalls and returning all letters to sender.
Unfortunately, in the last month I have not kept an eye on the news and missed that COMREG instructed yourtel to send out cancellation letters to all customers who had been signed up after June. Unfortunately this letter was send to my mum's home but like the others she returned it to sender.
I send yourtel an e-mail today quoting the consumer acts in which they disobeyed and demanded the cancellation letter, in which they never replied so when I called the guy I spoke to was outrageously rude. He would not let me speak and just kept saying they would not send another letter, one had already been sent and it was returned to sender. I had to hang up on him because he was so aggressive. I have never experienced customer service like this in my life. He ignored my quoting of the letter sent in November, which in light of the recent investigation, I believe should act as a cancellation. He kept saying that was received to be processed for August 2016 which is so unfair and just ignoring all the wording of the letter.

I called comreg today and they were not very helpful at all, mainly giving out to my mum for not opening the letters. I called back a few hours later and a guy was very short with me on the phone saying sarcastically 'the situation hasn't changed in the past few hours' referring to my mum's eariler phone call.

I am now feeling so helpless. Both my brother and I have emigrated in the past two years and we are trying to manage this situation from overseas but it is getting very complicated and very stressful for my parents. Does anyone have any advice?? We contacted the National Consumer Agency today. I am wondering in light of everything do we still have a point to argue? Feeling very helpless here!

Hi Sean,

Thanks so much for the detailed reply, myself and my brother really appreciate it as we've been in constant communication this week trying to find solutions to this.

Yes my mother immediately after receiving the bill at the end of August switched back to Eircom so I don't believe we even utilized their "services" at all. We have kept a copy of the registered letter sent. It emphasized immediate release and highlighted no consent was ever given so it's good for us to have on record. When I was home at Xmas I made sure that our number was removed from the NDD so that has also been done. I have also made contact with the NCA earlier this week so awaiting an update from them as they wanted to look into it further. Also going to make contact with the Data Protection Commissioner this week.

Regarding Yourtel, they sent a ridiculous letter home today, obviously following my phonecall earlier in the week, stating that "the January cancellation letter had been sent back and the February bill is enclosed". These letters they send are all so unprofessional and badly worded and never have a person sign off, it's all just very conspicuous. We have not paid them anything since that very first bill in August and nothing about that is going to change so they will be a long time waiting. My brother suggested we send them a letter back further highlighting our letter sent in November along with the information on the European Directive which you kindly provided and a confirmation that we will not be paying any bills or making any further communication. We have told our mother what to expect in the coming months with these aggressive letters with red writing etc and told her not to worry about these and just leave them aside unopened as they are only empty threats. They still ring the house so no calls are being answered unless the numbers are recognizable.


I am also drafting a letter to COMREG addressed to headquarters regarding our current situation so that they have it on record for the future (thanks also to L1011 for this advice). They have a lot to answer for in all of this. Of course money had to be involved. They gave all those affected with open cases absolutely no update on development of their cases or forewarning of delivery of notices. It's clear where their interests lie.

It's outrageous also that Eircom sold our information to this body then told us on the phone over xmas to "ignore them" after they caused the problem in the first place. So much corruption.

Thanks so much for the advice again. My mother is a lot more relieved about this now and we feel a lot more confident about handling the situation.

RTE Consumer Show wrote: »

Hi all,

It's Tadhg here from The Consumer Show.

We've had a couple of complaints about Yourtel ourselves and now I've seen this thread which clearly contains many more!

I wonder if there are any people with continuing problems, even after the Comreg ruling?

If so, please drop me a line on [email]tadhgatcocotelevision.ie[/email] and hopefully we can raise some more awareness and achieve a resolution.

Cheers,

Tadhg

Hi Tadhg

My issue with all this regarding Yourtel is the whole regulation of the industry by Comreg, Comreg's boss (Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources) and the Data Protection Commissioner’s office.

A lot of time has been spent by people here on this forum, trying to sort out their parents, elderly relatives etc issues with the utterly despicable modus operandi of Yourtel – false contracts, edited voice recordings, purportedly aligning themselves with Eircom, intimidating letters, debt collection letters (issued right before Christmas in one case for maximum effect), threats to impact your credit rating (which another poster has kindly pointed out is false) etc. Comreg have provided minimal to no support in my opinion.

This is time that people should have to do something more productive and not having to clear up a regulator’s mess, incompetence and conflict of interest.

Part of the mission statement of Comreg is, and I quote: "In terms of Consumer Protection, our aim is to safeguard the interests of the consumers of communication services by protecting and empowering them."


If you could help to get answers to the following issues I have (though I understand that it may not be the Consumer Show’s remit, but it may be someone else’s in RTE)...

1. What is the reason that Carrier Pre-Select licences are still issued by Comreg? These were the vogue in the 90’s I think, when Eircom was a state monopoly and the Government wanted to introduce some semblance of competition. CPS is well obsolete by now I would have thought. And the vast vast majority of consumers would be worse off with a CPS carrier, because you still need to pay line rental to Eircom, Vodafone, BT etc, so your combined monthly bills are higher than using a single provider.

2. Why did ComReg grant a licence to Yourtel for CPS based on their previous form in other European countries as evidenced by the links kindly provided on boards by another poster (Auld Jim Halpin)?


3. Comreg were aware of wrong right to cancel period (it should be two weeks instead of the 1 week that Yourtel gave) last summer, yet it took them until late January to issue a judgement against Yourtel. Why the delay?

4. Comreg’s funding is from the industry it regulates, e.g. Yourtel pays it for the CPS licence and hence helps pays the wages of Comreg staff. Does this not create a huge conflict of interest? I would like to know what is the income generated to Comreg by issuing a CPS licence to Yourtel – I am sure RTE can get this under the Freedom of Information Act.

5. The time that people have spent dealing with the fall-out from non-legitimate Yourtel contracts along with stress caused to both themselves and relatives – will Comreg pursue Yourtel for compensation for all this? (Yourtel seems to want to get paid for every letter they issue and also have no problem getting legal firms to issue 'Final Demand' letters).

6. Why does ComReg allow Eircom to manage the National Directory Database (NDD) and generate income by selling people’s landline numbers and addresses to tele-marketers like Yourtel? Why are landline numbers not automatically opted out of telemarketing calls similar to mobile numbers? Why do old, vulnerable people have to be subjected to cold-calling and why do consumers intentionally have to make an effort to opt-out of the NDD register?


7. Data Protection Commissioner’s role:

www dot comreg.ie/consumer_initiatives/direct_marketing_opt-out_register.492.566.html

On this page it states and I quote: "It is a criminal offence to make an unsolicited marketing call to a fixed line telephone number that is recorded in the opt-out register. Enforcement is a matter for the Data Protection Commissioner."

So considering that ComReg have registered a case against Yourtel in Dec 2014 for calling people that were on the NDD opt-out register, where is the Data Protection Commissioner in all this!?
No doubt, the DPC office is short staffed, with a backlog, but if a criminal offence has been committed??
Latest update from Comreg regarding NDD breach (23-Mar-2015):
comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg1529.pdf
In this, I see they want to pursue the route of financial penalties on Yourtel. However based on people’s experience so far with Yourtel, why is their CPS licence not revoked with immediate effect? Seems to me to just be more money for Comreg.


It also appears be a regulation-lite type environment that the Irish ruling elites like to operate in. In fact, several other European countries have accused Ireland of this this month, based on fact that so many of the social media/IT/comms companies have operations in Ireland, so the ruling elites don’t want to upset these corporate bosses, or another way is that all these companies are doing a lot of hard lobbying to our politicians.
Consumers and the public suffer alas.

8. What is Dept of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources role in all this, considering Comreg answerable to it and ultimately to the taxpayer?

Thanks



Background info to above as follows

oireachtas.ie/parliament/media/committees/pac/correspondence/2013-meeting691701/%5BPAC-R-802%5D-Correspondence-3C.6.pdf
(put www in front of links)

This is the link to Comreg chairperson Presentation to Dail Public Accounts Committee on ComReg's accounts from Jan 2013 - skip to page 2 for details of how ComReg is funded by all the telecom companies - including Yourtel, postal companies, premium rate services etc.

"Turning now to funding and operations, ComReg does not receive any funding from the State. We receive levy income from the electronic communications, postal and premium rate services industries we regulate. In addition, we receive licence fees and spectrum access fees from these firms/individuals using radio spectrum licenced under the Wireless Telegraphy Acts. Income in excess of our costs is treated as surplus and handed over to the Exchequer. Since the establishment of our organisation in 1997, we have already passed on over €820 million in surplus to the Exchequer.

ComReg has a staff of 107, comprised mainly of professionals such as engineers, accountants, legal staff, economists and analysts, who have the skills and qualifications needed to undertake economic regulation."

In it it states that "Our income for the year to 30 June 2012 was €57m and expenditure was €22m, leaving a surplus of €35m."

So 107 staff and a yearly expenditure of €22m.... Leaving aside costs like advertising etc, it appears some people in there are well paid. And Yourtel is helping with this wage bill by paying a fee for their Carrier Pre-Select licence .....


On page 1 of the pdf doc in link, the ComReg chairperson states that and I quote:
"In terms of Consumer Protection, our aim is to safeguard the interests of the consumers of communication services by protecting and empowering them."

Er Comreg not doing a good job there based on volume of complaints on this board and is there not a huge conflicted interest when Yourtel contribute to Comreg’s income.

Next link is how Eircom make money off landline users via the National Directory Database and selling your details to telemarketers.
Again put www in front.

comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg1467.pdf

Page 6 and 7 of the PDF document are the relevant pages. So Eircom, a private company, makes money selling on your details to telemarketers.

People need to start seriously questioning our political elite about how people's phone details are being sold on to telemarketers and why people's landline numbers are opted in to the NDD telemarketer register instead of being opted out of the telemarketer register automatically.