I think my Marriage is over

tmalmb · 28-08-2015 9:57am

The Princess Bride wrote: »

It seems to me like your wife has suddenly hit a brick wall, that she feels overwhelmed with her responsibilities.
She has probably felt this way for a while but bottled it up because -and this is my opinion only here- nobody outside has any sympathy for anyone feeling likely this . Think about it, we're all expected to be perfect adults and parents, but sometimes we forget to take care of ourselves we're so busy running around after everyone else.

She needs support and space, ideally she needs to talk to someone who'll listen without judging her.
Has she any close friends?(A counsellor would be good but of she's not ready for this,sorry be it.)

She is probably feeling incredibly vulnerable and scared right now. I'd imagine she is coming across as tough and selfish,when really, she's merely being vocal after many months/years of going through the motions.

Best wishes OP-It can't be easy for any of you.

thank you and i agree with your sentiments, I've been encouraging her to talk to folks but alas its seems she's pushed what close friends she's had away

I feel like a punchbag...I'm trying to stay strong but to be honest the stuffing is getting knocked out of me daily...I try, I really do try to keep communication open (despite the hurt I have) but so far it seems I just get hit with another punch.

How long should someone hang in there (taking these blows daily) before saying enough it enough

tmalmb · 28-08-2015 10:05am

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I hate to speak ill of your wife (a total stranger) because it's obvious you love her and are worried, but she is being incredibly selfish. It seems, as another poster said, as though she is intentionally avoiding mediation because she wants to have her cake and eat it too. In order to keep the house for herself in a separation, she would need to have custody of the children - but that looks like something she does not want. At the minute, she seems content to retain her comfortable living arrangements and financial stability and support from you while gallivanting around and ignoring 6 family members who obviously need her.

I don't doubt for a second that she needs help, but if she is being this cruel it shouldn't really fall solely on you to see to it.

I'd recommend you initiate proceedings for a legal separation and one of you find somewhere else to live. If you will end up primarily caring for the kids, you should retain use of the family home and be able to do so without your wife coming and going as she pleases.
I also think, hard though it may be, that you might have to break it to her parents.

I spoke to her parents the other night...they are devastated, they don't want me to leave...they said they need me and the kids need me

They've no idea whats going on and somewhat afraid to tackle my wife on it as she just blows up at them...my wife is now accusing me of trying to get them to pick sides....which is not the case...i asked them to do their best to mind her as i feel a breakdown is coming and alas my wife has pushed me away.

My wife wants the children, while she's behaving the way she is I have no doubt she loves them and wants them and truly cares for them

strandroad · 28-08-2015 10:25am

tmalmb wrote: »

Yes, I feel this is definitely the case....that said my wife has always been very caring (overly so)...I've not seen her this way since I known her....no apparent thought or care for the children or her parents (who have been very good to her over the years).

Perhaps you're answering your own question here, perhaps she was finding it hard for a while already and now she looked back at her life and saw that all she did was caring for others and it's what others keep expecting her to do, and had a breakdown over it.

What was your own relationship like in the last years? Did you have time together, with you working so much that you weren't home and her running your house as well as caring for her parents? Were you talking often, and I mean just about yourselves and not the kids etc? Do you know what her life plans or ambitions were, do you know her mental state in the last couple of years?

tmalmb · 28-08-2015 1:15pm

mhge wrote: »

Perhaps you're answering your own question here, perhaps she was finding it hard for a while already and now she looked back at her life and saw that all she did was caring for others and it's what others keep expecting her to do, and had a breakdown over it.

What was your own relationship like in the last years? Did you have time together, with you working so much that you weren't home and her running your house as well as caring for her parents? Were you talking often, and I mean just about yourselves and not the kids etc? Do you know what her life plans or ambitions were, do you know her mental state in the last couple of years?

I agree that I feel this is where she is at....the last few years (about 5) home has been my priority...my wife's father took ill so I recognised I needed to do a lot more... Over those years I feel my wife mental state deteriorated...she took her dads illness bad...that said he recovered and he's still active and with us today. I feel i've always supported my wife's dreams and plans, emotionally and financially...maybe I left it to late, maybe it was not enough

The Princess Bride · 28-08-2015 2:29pm

tmalmb wrote: »

i feel a breakdown is coming and alas my wife has pushed me away.

My wife wants the children, while she's behaving the way she is I have no doubt she loves them and wants them and truly cares for them

I agree about the breakdown.
I reckon if you asked her, calmly, how she feels, she'd say she feels like her head is gonna burst.

tmalmb wrote: »

thank you and i agree with your sentiments, I've been encouraging her to talk to folks but alas its seems she's pushed what close friends she's had away

I feel like a punchbag...I'm trying to stay strong but to be honest the stuffing is getting knocked out of me daily...I try, I really do try to keep communication open (despite the hurt I have) but so far it seems I just get hit with another punch.

How long should someone hang in there (taking these blows daily) before saying enough it enough

I sometimes feel like a broken record in these threads.
I'm (again ) gonna mention the stages of grief.Your wife is grieving the loss of the woman she once was, the wife she once was and no doubt, the daughter she once was.
Somehow she is where she is, she has bravely stepped forward and is crying out for help.
But nobody had seen or heard or can understand, because she probably doesn't even understand herself.

Take time out for yourself. Have you a friend who'll listen without judging either of you or bitching about her?

Not one of us here can step into her shoes-we shouldn't judge her- I'd bet my life on this not having been on her "to do" list when you married 15 years ago.
Think about it.
She is reaching out because she is struggling here -criticism won't help.
She needs help.

Potatoeman · 28-08-2015 4:12pm

tmalmb wrote: »

I agree that I feel this is where she is at....the last few years (about 5) home has been my priority...my wife's father took ill so I recognised I needed to do a lot more... Over those years I feel my wife mental state deteriorated...she took her dads illness bad...that said he recovered and he's still active and with us today. I feel i've always supported my wife's dreams and plans, emotionally and financially...maybe I left it to late, maybe it was not enough

You were working during that time though, so it was financially beneficial for both of you.

Caring for elderly parents can be tough, can they get professional help if it happens again? These are her parents though and not yours. Does she not have other family that can help?

MouseTail · 28-08-2015 10:03pm

I hate to mention it, but you need to prepare yourself that there may be someone else involved. Of course there may not be, and it may be what you see at face value a woman reevaluating her life as her children become more independent, and her parents become more dependent, and she is wondering what about ME?
Just prepare yourself for the worst emotionally.

tmalmb · 05-09-2015 8:55am

When I first started this thread, I was in fear that my marriage was over....my wife was looking for space. Today almost 5 weeks later it saddens me to say that my marriage is truly over, I'm amazed at how quick it has accelerated, my wife initiated intimacy with me at the start of Aug and by the End of Aug its seems like there is total contempt for me....I don't get it, I think the woman I loved it gone and someone else has taken over

She wants me out...has gone as far as taken a protection order out against me, has had me charged for breach of protection order and all based on pure lies

....she sent me a text to say she'll drop the court cases if I just move out.

TBH...I was struggling with my marriage breakdown but her behaviours over the last week while shocking are helping me move forward...I still find it hard to say "my marriage is over" without crying up but at least the heavy flow of tears are subsiding.

I've gotten legal advice and they reassure me this is nothing more that moves to try push me out of the house...I do plan on leaving but not till we've done the mediation path.

I don't feel the mediation path will be an easy one...I'm torn with the desire to get out and the desire to play hardball for the pain I've been put through over the last month but maybe getting out as clean as possible it the best way forward

thanks for all the responses....it has been helpful...I've no idea what the future holds....I'm a man in his mid 40's stepping into a world of singlehood and its damn scary

amdublin · 05-09-2015 9:13am

OP I am so so sorry for you. What you have described you are going through sounds so tough. But you also sound like a great person trying to do the best for your children.
I am sorry I don't have more advice for you but I would say keep talking - talk to your friends, talk to her parents and most important talk to the professionals - your solicitor and your counsellor. Keep the counselling up, it's important for you.

You are doing the very best you can in an awful situation. Stick in there.

Be kind to yourself op.

Big virtual hug going out to you.

Compu Global Hyper Meganet · 05-09-2015 10:23am

Hi OP,

It's obviously a difficult situation. Usually, I would say that you should be indignant and refuse to move out. In this case, her parents seem to be living there so unless you want to try to kick them out it makes more sense for you to move out rather than her (regardless of her behaviour).

I know it's probably not what you want to hear but while you are willing to have an amicable (albeit reluctant) separation, your wife is on a war footing. Her aggressive behaviour with the protection order shows this. Be prepared for the worst- she is probably willing to say anything to make herself look like the good guy. Mutual friends, her parents and maybe even your children may hear fabricated stories about how "abusive" you were.

She seems to know that you want to minimise the effect on your children and is taking advantage of this by behaving as she sees fit. However, your two older children are effectively adults. I suggest you treat them as such- sit them down and explain the situation to them honestly, show them the protection order and let them know that they are your priority in all of this. Your wife is relying on you treating your children like infants- call her bluff. If your wife refuses to engage in mediation/ divorce proceedings, tell them and tell them of her reasons (you have to continue supporting her financially while getting no visitation rights). They have every right to know and I wouldn't be too preoccupied with making her look like mother of the year if I were you. She's certainly not praising your parenting skills!

Best wishes

Colser · 05-09-2015 10:39am

If you plan on leaving anyway what do you hope to gain from mediation OP?Its very difficult living with an ex wife/husband so would you consider moving and still going for mediation..you could get your solicitor to send a letter confirming that you left in the interest of the kids.

tmalmb · 05-09-2015 10:42am

amdublin wrote: »

OP I am so so sorry for you. What you have described you are going through sounds so tough. But you also sound like a great person trying to do the best for your children.
I am sorry I don't have more advice for you but I would say keep talking - talk to your friends, talk to her parents and most important talk to the professionals - your solicitor and your counsellor. Keep the counselling up, it's important for you.

You are doing the very best you can in an awful situation. Stick in there.
Be kind to yourself op.

Big virtual hug going out to you.

thank you for these wonderful kind words, I filled up reading them and I think its the first time in weeks I felt good about crying

tmalmb · 05-09-2015 10:45am

Colser wrote: »

If you plan on leaving anyway what do you hope to gain from mediation OP?Its very difficult living with an ex wife/husband so would you consider moving and still going for mediation..you could get your solicitor to send a letter confirming that you left in the interest of the kids.

I guess I'm looking to formalize the whole thing, I want to agree on what I pay, and how/when I can spend time with the kids, I'd also like to agree on a communications plan e.g. if she is working late into the evenings then I'd be happy to hang out with the kids, feed them etc (in my place of course)...same if she has weekends away, I'd like to know in advance so I'm there for them.

While is hurting like hell, my gut tells me make this separation as clean as possible...with not future challenges, court cases etc..I think its best for the kids and honestly best for me...its the only way I think I can move on

tmalmb · 05-09-2015 10:52am

Compu Global Hyper Meganet wrote: »

Hi OP,

It's obviously a difficult situation. Usually, I would say that you should be indignant and refuse to move out. In this case, her parents seem to be living there so unless you want to try to kick them out it makes more sense for you to move out rather than her (regardless of her behaviour).

I know it's probably not what you want to hear but while you are willing to have an amicable (albeit reluctant) separation, your wife is on a war footing. Her aggressive behaviour with the protection order shows this. Be prepared for the worst- she is probably willing to say anything to make herself look like the good guy. Mutual friends, her parents and maybe even your children may hear fabricated stories about how "abusive" you were.

She seems to know that you want to minimise the effect on your children and is taking advantage of this by behaving as she sees fit. However, your two older children are effectively adults. I suggest you treat them as such- sit them down and explain the situation to them honestly, show them the protection order and let them know that they are your priority in all of this. Your wife is relying on you treating your children like infants- call her bluff. If your wife refuses to engage in mediation/ divorce proceedings, tell them and tell them of her reasons (you have to continue supporting her financially while getting no visitation rights). They have every right to know and I wouldn't be too preoccupied with making her look like mother of the year if I were you. She's certainly not praising your parenting skills!

Best wishes

thank you for the reply, I've taken the lead and spoken to the kids, I've explained the situation and informed them on the protection orderetc..the kids are at a loss, they don't get it...I'm reassuring them, letting them know it will get better, I've told them I will be moving out...just as soon as we sort out the mediation. All my kids said they will stand up in court and say these accusations are untrue...I appreciate their support but I don't want them getting stuck in the middle....my hope is that my wife simply rescinds her statements and I avoid two court cases (and of course associated legal costs)

Her parents and friends are horrified, everyone is confused with whats going on, no-one wants me to leave, they are all asking me to hang in there....but I can't.

My hope is to find a rental somewhere close where the kids can walk over to me whenever they want

My hope is that the finance agreement is amicable, I provide the necessary support but I've enough to rebuild my life

amdublin · 05-09-2015 11:11am

tmalmb wrote: »

thank you for these wonderful kind words, I filled up reading them and I think its the first time in weeks I felt good about crying

It's ok to cry. Good to even, as you said!!!!

I'm glad my words were of comfort to you. Stay strong (but kind to yourself) and remind yourself you are doing the best you can.

tara73 · 05-09-2015 12:14pm

OP, this is horrible, my thoughts go out to you and sending you a virtual hug.

but I ask myself why are you not fighting for yourself and the kids. you just wrote the kids are on your side and support you, would testify in court she's lying. if they say they'll do that, I'm pretty sure they don't want to stay with their mother in the house and go on living with her as if nothing happened, my guess is, they would like to stay with you!

so why don't you let her move out? she's the one causing all this trouble and hurt for you and the children, she wants a new life so she can find a new place (with your help maybe), and you and your kids stay in the house and live a good life without her.

I don't get it you giving all away. I mean, we only have your version of the story but from what you write and how you write it's hard to imagine you were such a bad guy she couldn't even talk to you and had to break up in such a horrible, unfair way.

I think you should gather all the support you have, and you have a lot, as you wrote, and stand your grounds!

and sorry, but for me, the only explanation for this crass movements of your wife is, there is somebody else on the scene.

Eeden · 05-09-2015 12:19pm

Colser wrote: »

If you plan on leaving anyway what do you hope to gain from mediation OP?Its very difficult living with an ex wife/husband so would you consider moving and still going for mediation..you could get your solicitor to send a letter confirming that you left in the interest of the kids.

tmalmb wrote: »

I guess I'm looking to formalize the whole thing, I want to agree on what I pay, and how/when I can spend time with the kids, I'd also like to agree on a communications plan e.g. if she is working late into the evenings then I'd be happy to hang out with the kids, feed them etc (in my place of course)...same if she has weekends away, I'd like to know in advance so I'm there for them.

While is hurting like hell, my gut tells me make this separation as clean as possible...with not future challenges, court cases etc..I think its best for the kids and honestly best for me...its the only way I think I can move on

Mediation is not about trying to save your marriage - it's about, as the OP says, trying to formalize everything (finances, access/custody, etc) and especially trying to do what's best for the children in the least adversarial way.

I wish you luck, OP and hope that things go as smoothly as possible for you. It does hurt, but you will get through it. It sucks to feel so rejected, but there will come a time when you won't care about that anymore.

Colser · 05-09-2015 1:10pm

Eeden wrote: »

Mediation is not about trying to save your marriage - it's about, as the OP says, trying to formalize everything (finances, access/custody, etc) and especially trying to do what's best for the children in the least adversarial way.

I wish you luck, OP and hope that things go as smoothly as possible for you. It does hurt, but you will get through it. It sucks to feel so rejected, but there will come a time when you won't care about that anymore.

I know what it is Eeden but there is a waiting list in some places and its very difficult living in the same house while you are waiting,that is all I meant.The OP said that he intends to move anyway so that doesnt need to be decided at mediation.
OP has your wife agreed to attend mediation?

tmalmb · 10-10-2015 6:30pm

Its me again, another month has passed and its been a month of downs and more downs :-/. I'm glad to say that emotionally I'm in a better place as the tears have dried up however sadness, hurt & loneliness continue to keep me company.

My relationship with my kids has grown stronger, I've basically become the mum and dad to them over the last few months. I'm still in the house much to the anger of my wife...there has been lots of threats, locks will be changed, guards will be called etc. I don't rise to the attacks, I simply stay calm.

I still have two court cases pending based on his lies however on Monday mediation begins (assuming she turns up, was refusing to go unless I have her a date on when I move out but hopefully she will)

I'm not sure what to expect, I've looked on the separation/divorce forum and the messages seem mixed....

The biggest problem I have now is I don't want to be a weekend or part time dad, I love my kids dearly and they need me...and i need them.

If i do have to move out, I have the possibility of renting a house 4 doors away :-/. My gut tells me its to close to my wife but my heart is saying its right for the kids...folks any thoughts on this?...I've mixed feelings as I want to be there for the kids but hate the thought of continue to make my wife's life easy

LegacyUser · 10-10-2015 9:07pm

You stay right where you are , OP!
She wants to break up& find herself? There's the door , go

Ann84 · 10-10-2015 9:41pm

Sorry but why is the expectation that you will move out? Why doesn't she move out?

tmalmb · 10-10-2015 9:46pm

At mediation I do intend on asking her to let me buy her out, her parents live next door (sep house) and there is room for an extension that she could build...I see this as win win (both of us technically have the kids) and we can move on....alas my wife has become so self centered and selfish I don't think she'll want to give on anything

Ann84 · 10-10-2015 10:11pm

You need to start documenting everything, you shouldn't have to deal with threats and although one of you will have to leave the house, I don't believe it should be the instigator of the separation (unless there is abuse involved!!)

If you go to mediation and outline you clearly thought through plan, I think you'll get a bad reaction, I suggest you ease into this but under no circumstances should you leave the house...

Get your facts in order, spend tomorrow writing down everything that you can think of in relation to the demise of your marriage - facts not feelings, statements not arguments, practicalities not moralities...
That's the best advise I can provide, as a woman who had to suffer nonsense accusations in court, make sure you have your facts straight from the start and stick to your guns... Everything else is out of your control unfortunately

tmalmb · 10-10-2015 10:32pm

thanks Ann84, I'll do that

Smidge · 11-10-2015 2:24am

I'm not 100% sure on this tbh folks.
OP, your wife has been a stay at home mother for all of these years, is that correct?
Has been, as per your description, a kind "overly kind/thoughtful" woman throughout the years? Has kept your home and provided everything for you and both of your children and there have been no real complaints on your half(as per your posts)?
I'm sorry OP, but something doesn't add up here. You allude to misbehavings in your past(albeit a long time ago)but gloss over it.
NO woman who has been at home for so long and out of the workforce, dependant on the breadwinner, just decides in her 40's "I'm outta here" on a whim.
Women, and I'm sorry to sound sexist here but sadly in general its the case, dont throw away 20+ year marriages if all is ok.
You say it happened instantly(within a month).
I hate to say it OP, but things were wrong for a very long time in your relationship before this happened. You probably just didn't see it, or her, as the case maybe.

She just had enough and probably didn't handle it very well.
But its not her hormones or just "a notion" she took.
I think your wife just had enough and placed her cards on the table.
Just very sad that such a long marriage with children came to an end but I would hazard a guess that there were umpteen red flags before the final curtain call.
It seems clear that its over now and the best advice I can give at this point is to move forward as best you can

Good luck in the future to you all.

tmalmb · 11-10-2015 7:58am

You are correct Smidge, while it initially felt like an overnight decision as I looked back on the marriage (trying to deal with the emotional pain, hurt etc, I seen there were many, many red flag situations in the relationship and that we did not have a good marriage). They were noticed, acknowledged and swept under the carpet for whatever reason (kids, family, commitment, etc..). Just one slight correction, my wife was never the little woman at home, yes she gave up work for a few years but she always had her own life and funds to cover it :-). Whatever she felt, feels now about me is irrelevant...I've accepted it however the problem i'm now dealing with is the fact that she's practically abandoned the kids and when she is with them is bickering with them, calling them names. She won't engage their schools, doctors, dentists etc and I can't remember the last time she prepared a meal for them. While I want to move on, I cannot leave my children in such a hostile, cold environment :-/

Im trying to figure out how to tackle this in mediation without her flying off the handle and simply pulling out of it

Shrap · 11-10-2015 8:35am

tmalmb wrote: »

Whatever she felt, feels now about me is irrelevant...I've accepted it however the problem i'm now dealing with is the fact that she's practically abandoned the kids and when she is with them is bickering with them, calling them names. She won't engage their schools, doctors, dentists etc and I can't remember the last time she prepared a meal for them. While I want to move on, I cannot leave my children in such a hostile, cold environment :-/

Im trying to figure out how to tackle this in mediation without her flying off the handle and simply pulling out of it

This could be your game plan for the first mediation session OP ^^.

a) State that you recognise that your relationship had massive problems that weren't dealt with and that you're facing the consequences of that is now separation.

b) State that you're here to start the ball rolling on finding a way to separate in whatever way is best for the children and their wants/needs.

c) State that your immediate issue is your family life NOW and the impact it's having on the children. Your wife's hatred (projected all around her) has got to stop - the name calling and the fighting with your kids. Say that the utter coldness towards everyone and making you the enemy in terms of protection orders, blackmail attempts to get you to move out, etc. is having a hugely negative impact on your kids.

Mediation is going to be a space for your wife to pour out in great detail ALL the times you got anything wrong and ALL the crappiness (as she sees it) of her life. She may lie and accuse you of things you didn't do, or perhaps the things you did do are sufficient to show what a nightmare you are (sorry - I don't think this obviously - but prepare yourself.....). She will be let have her say, but so will you. If your say consists of acknowledging as much as possible about what went wrong but constantly tries to bring it back to the present and what the kids are going through right now, you will not only hopefully get started on some agreed rules of behaviour, you will also have a verifiable record of your concerns (the kids and her current impact on them) if you need it for a court hearing at some stage.

Wishing you the best OP. You sound like an excellent father and tbh, if this pans out worse for you and you end up moving out (I hope you don't), I doubt your kids will take too long in moving in with you under their own steam. They're teens. They won't stay with an abusive parent if there's a better one just round the corner.

tmalmb · 12-10-2015 12:03pm

thanks Shrap, all starts in a couple of hours so here's hoping we can come to an agreement on how to move forward

Shrap · 12-10-2015 12:31pm

tmalmb wrote: »

thanks Shrap, all starts in a couple of hours so here's hoping we can come to an agreement on how to move forward

Best of luck. Stay strong.

stickybookmark · 12-10-2015 1:49pm

I just read the thread for the first time. Good luck with the mediation. I also think your wife moving in with her parents while you stay in the house with the kids is a good solution.

I can't believe she made up lies to try to get a protection order against you to get you to move out of the house which you pay the mortgage for.....unfortunately it's the oldest trick in the book for women in exactly that position though. But in this situation it seems an exceptionally low move.

I don't know if you've gone to any single father's support groups? If you do you will hear a lot of similar stories - man has been turfed out of family home but still expected to pay 100% of mortgage and bills (including things like life assurance, house insurance, property tax, water tax etc) while he hardly ever (or never) sees his kids.
At least coz your kids are grown up, apart from the 12 year old, you won't have the never sees his kids bit.

Take your decision about moving out very, very carefully. Do you want to end up in the above position? Can you afford to?

It takes true grit to hold tough and stick it out til the other person (i.e. your wife) eventually breaks and moves out. It's like a game of chicken - who will blink first, who will crack and move out first.
Whoever moves out is going to be a financially disadvantaged position and will lose the relationship they currently have with the kids, so no wonder no-one wants to be the one.
It's hard to keep up the strength needed to fight though.

Do you have a female family member (sister, cousin?) or friend or work colleague that you could go for a coffee with/exchange a few emails with for support? I really think a female ear can help in these situations. Even someone you haven't been in contact for a while that you think would be a good listener? You need all the support you can get

I think my Marriage is over

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