DART fines process. Please help!

lee711 · 28-07-2014 3:06pm #1

Right so today I had the horrible misfortune of being slapped a 150 euro fine for having a child ticket on the DART. I panicked and gave someone else's name and address. I know that was wrong but what will happen when the wrongly named person doesn't pay the fine? Will they be asked to prove they weren't there or will they be asked to identify the person?

I know I did the wrong thing by giving the wrong name but I am going to attempt to make it right.(even though I don't agree with the fact that the Dart ticketing system classes anyone over 16 as an adult , yet the government and basically everyone else classifies anyone over 18 as adult. Serious lack of logic going on there)

could anyone who has been in this situation or knows anything about it please help me?

goingnowhere · 28-07-2014 4:08pm

The named person will be dragged to court as a result, hopefully they can prove they were somewhere else.

On the other hand you have the fine receipt, you can pay that right now and this all goes away.

Incidentally Irish Rail read this forum, so you have just admitted to having travelled as an adult on a child ticket on a DART today. Won't take them long to figure who it was and pull the CCTV.

You must have really annoyed the inspectors as they have hit you with both fare evasion (100 euro) and a bye law offence (50 euro)

lee711 · 28-07-2014 4:24pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

You must have really annoyed the inspectors as they have hit you with both fare evasion (100 euro) and a bye law offence (50 euro)

I tried to say i was 15. But i could here the other inspectors going on about how this inspector was going to get me, cause that's what he does, or something along those lines. I wasn't rude or anything.

also if I ring up to say that the fine is in the wrong name, will an extra fine be handed down, cause i dont even know how I'm going to pay the 150 euro ( why I had the child ticket in the first place)? or would I be better off just paying it off with that name?

and I'm not trying to avoid it, I just panicked and messed up...

corktina · 28-07-2014 4:40pm

Man up , pay the fine and get an innocent person off the hook.

lee711 · 28-07-2014 4:45pm

corktina wrote: »

Man up , pay the fine and get an innocent person off the hook.

you know before you said that, I actually had no intentions of doing that, i was just asking these questions for the hell of it. thanks for the brilliant motivation

Jamie2k9 · 28-07-2014 5:00pm

If you had being honest and didn't lie about your age you probably would of only got the standard fine of 100....

lee711 · 28-07-2014 5:03pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If you had being honest and didn't lie about your age you probably would of only got the standard fine of 100....

I know but I panicked, usually when the bus driver asks for my age and I say 15, they look at me funny, say 'go on' and that's it. Apparently that doesn't happen with the dart.

lee711 · 28-07-2014 5:16pm

if I have the receipt can I just go and pay the fine and that'll be the end of it?

lee711 · 28-07-2014 5:24pm

Basically what I'm trying to get at is, will said person be contacted in anyway if I pay the fine within 21 days? There isn't a letter sent out to his address or anything?

goingnowhere · 28-07-2014 6:13pm

lee711 wrote: »

Basically what I'm trying to get at is, will said person be contacted in anyway if I pay the fine within 21 days? There isn't a letter sent out to his address or anything?

Pay now and there should be no evidence left behind. That said Irish Rail are completely within their rights to (and I imagine we all would hope they do) send out the fine notification by post.

So there is a chance.

Incidentally the inspectors had they discovered your lies would have been completely entitled to arrest you there and then,

lee711 · 28-07-2014 10:34pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

(and I imagine we all would hope they do)

why would it make a difference to you? I made a very bad mistake and I'm trying to fix it. God forbid you ever make one.

I've had a look at some of the rest of the DART fine threads and everyone is far too quick to jump down the person who started the thread's throat and to assume the worst. Must be desperate for some sort of self-righteousness in their lives.

Hilly Bill · 28-07-2014 10:59pm

lee711 wrote: »

why would it make a difference to you? I made a very bad mistake and I'm trying to fix it. God forbid you ever make one.

I've had a look at some of the rest of the DART fine threads and everyone is far too quick to jump down the person who started the thread's throat and to assume the worst. Must be desperate for some sort of self-righteousness in their lives.

Nothing worse than stinging someone else with a fine to get away with paying the correct fare.

newbie2 · 28-07-2014 11:01pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

The named person will be dragged to court as a result, hopefully they can prove they were somewhere else.

Bullsh1t

goingnowhere wrote: »

Incidentally Irish Rail read this forum, so you have just admitted to having travelled as an adult on a child ticket on a DART today. Won't take them long to figure who it was and pull the CCTV.

Bullsh1t

goingnowhere wrote: »

Pay now and there should be no evidence left behind.

Bullsh1t

goingnowhere wrote: »

Incidentally the inspectors had they discovered your lies would have been completely entitled to arrest you there and then,

utter Bulsh1t

Stop scaring the young fella with ridiculous posts.

OP, If you have a receipt, pay the fine - express remorse etc and you'll be fine.

robertxxx · 28-07-2014 11:05pm

Don't pay it, Irish rail are a joke shop.

lee711 · 28-07-2014 11:08pm

newbie2 wrote: »

Bullsh1t

Bullsh1t

Bullsh1t

utter Bulsh1t

Stop scaring the young fella with ridiculous posts.

OP, If you have a receipt, pay the fine - express remorse etc and you'll be fine.

thank you, at least there is someone who isn't trying to just jump down my throat

lee711 · 28-07-2014 11:09pm

robertxxx wrote: »

Don't pay it, Irish rail are a joke shop.

completely agree, but it's not fair on the other person

Hilly Bill · 28-07-2014 11:14pm

lee711 wrote: »

I know but I panicked, usually when the bus driver asks for my age and I say 15, they look at me funny, say 'go on' and that's it. Apparently that doesn't happen with the dart.

So its a regular thing then?

Bigcheeze · 28-07-2014 11:18pm

Can a 16 year old child be brought to court for this ?

whiteshorts · 28-07-2014 11:19pm

Incidentally the inspectors had they discovered your lies would have been
completely entitled to arrest you there and then,

Where do you think you are living?

lee711 · 28-07-2014 11:28pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

So its a regular thing then?

get over yourself, if you were my age you would be doing the exact same thing. Money doesn't exactly grow on trees and being charged 3.05 for a one way 25 minute train journey is beyond ridiculous

plus as I have said before, by law I am a child, yet the public transport systems in this country think I'm an adult, and can conveniently charge me adult fare.

shruikan2553 · 28-07-2014 11:29pm

Was the name and address of another person or was it randomly made up? I wouldnt worry about someone else being brought into it if you made it up.

lee711 · 28-07-2014 11:30pm

whiteshorts wrote: »

Where do you think you are living?

very close to where i do?

I'm not sure I understand your q?

shruikan2553 · 28-07-2014 11:31pm

lee711 wrote: »

very close to where i do?

I'm not sure I understand your q?

Think the poster meant that the person saying they would arrest you was wrong. They have no power to detain a person as far as I know.

the groutch · 29-07-2014 12:11am

lee711 wrote: »

get over yourself, if you were my age you would be doing the exact same thing. Money doesn't exactly grow on trees and being charged 3.05 for a one way 25 minute train journey is beyond ridiculous

€2.35 using leap card btw, surprised anyone still uses cash.

goingnowhere · 29-07-2014 12:16am

OP got caught breaking the law.

OP further committed an offence by failing to give real name and address

OP now wants to find a way out

Its people like this who are resulting in the honest citizen paying more every day

There is no sympathy, only the basic and simple advice, pay the fine

And the official absolutely has the power to arrest, http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0031/print.html#sec129

(iii) require the person to give his or her name and address and, if the person fails or refuses to do so or gives a name that the authorised officer reasonably suspects is false or misleading may arrest that person without warrant,

lee711 · 29-07-2014 2:04am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Its people like this who are resulting in the honest citizen paying more every day

There is no sympathy, only the basic and simple advice, pay the fine
[/url]

I am truly sorry, Mr. High&Almighty that you had to come down from your throne of sweet justice to see this, a person who panicked very badly and is now trying to right his (very serious) wrong. But I don't need you to tell me that what I did was wrong, I am well aware that my actions were in no way justified.

And for your information, I am going to pay the fine tomorrow, so don't worry your little cotton socks, 'honest' self-righteous idiots like yourself will not be paying a single cent on my behalf.

You'd swear that half of the people on this, have never done anything wrong in their entire lives. I didn't come here looking for sympathy, I came looking for a way to try and get rid of this fine as quickly and quietly as possible. I panicked because I am not used to being in these type of situations. I am not used to being issued fines or being arrested or anything of the likes.

And if it makes you feel any better while you mouth off from behind your keyboard, I do feel like a pr*ck. It is all I have been thinking about all day and I regret it deeply.

Tow · 29-07-2014 10:08am

newbie2 wrote: »

Stop scaring the young fella with ridiculous posts.

If they are anything like the Luas nothing will happen. I have gotten about half a dozen fines sent to my house over the years. I suspect from the previous owners son... They send two letters per fine and not once has anyone knocked on the door looking for him or his parents.

bikeman1 · 29-07-2014 1:05pm

Incidentally they announced yesterday that up to the age of 19 you can now avail of child fares if you get the leap card.

You don't have to pay 3.05 for the 25 minute journey, you could use a leap card and it would be cheaper.

My story:
When I was 15, I got caught without a ticket (I was out enjoying the 071s and Cravens into Pearse on the Northern line), the booking office was locked at my local station, but when I got to Pearse I crossed straight back and took a train north to head home. It was on this train that I was caught.

Did I be smart and give a false name and address? No, I put my hand up, and told them where I went, (which confused them even more) and paid the fine (€45 at the time I think). Since that day, I always pay and tag on ever since my rebel teenage days!

SteM · 29-07-2014 1:41pm

lee711 wrote: »

I know but I panicked, usually when the bus driver asks for my age and I say 15, they look at me funny, say 'go on' and that's it. Apparently that doesn't happen with the dart.

You don't need to do that on the bus anymore if you just get a Leap card and are under 18.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/General-News/Child-Leap-Card-Changes-/

SteM · 29-07-2014 1:47pm

lee711 wrote: »

completely agree, but it's not fair on the other person

I don't understand you OP. You're happy to abuse the system by claiming your under 16 but you're unhappy with the service that you are defrauding?

If you're not happy with the service don't pay anything - just don't use it. Buy a bike instead.

lee711 · 29-07-2014 6:38pm

SteM wrote: »

just don't use it. Buy a bike instead.

i wasn't using it until my bike got robbed

Hilly Bill · 29-07-2014 9:18pm

lee711 wrote: »

get over yourself, if you were my age you would be doing the exact same thing. Money doesn't exactly grow on trees and being charged 3.05 for a one way 25 minute train journey is beyond ridiculous

plus as I have said before, by law I am a child, yet the public transport systems in this country think I'm an adult, and can conveniently charge me adult fare.

No i wouldnt. I think its a case of being a child when it suits . In general,when you are out and about, would you prefer to be treated as an adult or as a child?

Godge · 31-07-2014 6:46pm

lee711 wrote: »

get over yourself, if you were my age you would be doing the exact same thing. Money doesn't exactly grow on trees and being charged 3.05 for a one way 25 minute train journey is beyond ridiculous

plus as I have said before, by law I am a child, yet the public transport systems in this country think I'm an adult, and can conveniently charge me adult fare.

This attitude is why Ireland is in the mess it is in.

Five Lamps · 31-07-2014 11:15pm

lee711 wrote: »

I panicked and gave someone else's name and address.

Panicked but yet you were cool enough and quick thinking enough to pick a friend and rattle of an address.

Your friend is about to be dropped into a lot of hassle. He'll have to waste his time and deal with this which could involve him/her going to court.

I would ring IR explain the situation and take responsibility for your actions.

(even though I don't agree with the fact that the Dart ticketing system classes anyone over 16 as an adult , yet the government and basically everyone else classifies anyone over 18 as adult. Serious lack of logic going on there)

I guess you knew this when you purchased the ticket. How IR classify an adult is quite common across transport systems and plenty of other organisations don't define an adult as being aged 18+.

Zander1983 · 01-08-2014 10:51am

This morning I bought a DART ticket in Drumcondra station on my way to Pearse station, but at Pearse station I was stopped and handed a 100 euro fine for travelling with a child ticket. I almost never take the Dart but my bike was punctured and I was in a rush to get to work early so took it this time. I'm almost certain I choose an Adult ticket in Drumcondra station. I remember thinking 1.15 euro was cheap but thought no more of it and got on the train. I was apoplectic when handed a fine. I have a good job, through which I pay vast taxes, and clearly either:

(a) made a mistake rather than intentionally screwing Irish Rail out of about 1 euro

or

(b) the machine in Drumcondra malfunctioned as I have never pressed "child" by accident before

Security kept me for 20 minutes because it took me ages to prove my address (my phone was dead).

What is incredibly annoying is the lack of common sense shown by Irish Rail security. Clearly, in my case, either (a) or (b) above applied and a fine was unjust. Instead, they handled the situation like a smug bunch of paid bullies, clearly delighted to have caught someone who had accidentally broken a rule. They seem incapable of employing what should be standard for any public servant - good sense and sound judgement.

Clearly, Irish Rail security are spending all their resources trying to catch people who may not have the right ticket - last week during the good weather, trains were predictably delayed due to vandalism and when it did arrive, was full of teenagers drinking heavily. Not a security guard to be seen.

I'm going to appeal this on the basis that I'm pretty sure I selected Adult on the machine (I will request CCTV footage).

Someone above pointed out Irish Rail staff read this forum. I hope so. Here's my message: try to do your bloody job while employing just a little bit of common sense for Christ's sake.

TheBandicoot · 01-08-2014 10:56am

Try see it from their perspective. I'm sure it seems obvious to you it was a mistake or malfunction, but they hear that excuse hundreds of times a day I'm sure, and I'm sure it sounds just as sincere.
Look on the bright side- you won't make the same mistake again

Zander1983 · 01-08-2014 11:57am

TheBandicoot wrote: »

Try see it from their perspective. I'm sure it seems obvious to you it was a mistake or malfunction, but they hear that excuse hundreds of times a day I'm sure, and I'm sure it sounds just as sincere.
Look on the bright side- you won't make the same mistake again

My problem is:

1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines
2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes
3/ Ignore drinking on trains
4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line

In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.

highnc · 01-08-2014 12:26pm

Zander1983 wrote: »

My problem is:

1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines
2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes
3/ Ignore drinking on trains
4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line

In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.

that will help your appeal!!

in a day or two, when the dust settles, you'll realise you made a mistake (honest as it may be) and they were just applying the rules...they probably hear loads of excuses daily but at the end of the day it's the passenger's repsonsibility to have the correct ticket...regardless of vast taxes paid

TheBandicoot · 01-08-2014 12:48pm

When you say security, who do you mean? Irish Rail Revenue Protection staff, or the actual security, the hired in big guys in stabproof vests? I assume you mean the former, the latter would not be around in the morning.

Zander1983 wrote: »

1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines

Common sense is subjective. I suspect what you see as common sense, is actually just wanting favourable treatment.
If they were 'gloating', fair enough, you have a valid complaint there about conduct. But I suspect given you were 'apoplectic' yourself at the time, your recollection might be coloured.

2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes

Too much? How do you define that? What difference does it make if people are off to pay taxes or to go drink in a park all day? You have to have a ticket either way.. It's not like white collar professionals don't try to evade fares too(they most certainly do). Morning peak is when there are more people using the system, so it follows there would be more possible fare evasion, so surely that is a good time to be vigilant? What a bizarre point.

3/ Ignore drinking on trains

That is security's job, not revenue protection- it is not a case of them either checking tickets or dealing with drinking. However I have seen security tell people to leave drink behind many times when getting on trains. Depends on security being there of course, and they can't be everywhere at once. Perhaps if less adults traveled on child tickets there would be more money to hire more of them

4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line

What does that have to do with Irish Rail?

In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.

Charming. Also, on-the-ground staff are the lowest rung with the least power to tackle an problems.

Zander1983 · 01-08-2014 3:40pm

@TheBandicoot

Do you think a 100 euro fine for travelling from drumcondra to pearse st (about 6 minutes) on an accidentally purchased child ticket which would have saved me, and cost irish rail, about 1 euro is fair? I know those are the rules, but are the rules fair? This scenario is absolutely absurd!

circular flexing · 01-08-2014 4:02pm

Zander1983 wrote: »

@TheBandicoot

Do you think a 100 euro fine for travelling from drumcondra to pearse st (about 6 minutes) on an accidentally purchased child ticket which would have saved me, and cost irish rail, about 1 euro is fair? I know those are the rules, but are the rules fair? This scenario is absolutely absurd!

The fine is designed to act as a deterrent to fare evasion in the future.

Maybe you made a genuine mistake, or maybe you've been travelling on child tickets for years and not getting caught (not saying you have but that's how the RUI people see it).

In any case, I'm sure you will be more careful about what ticket you buy next time because of the fine.

Tom2 · 01-08-2014 4:13pm

If you've calmed down, could I put three questions to you:

First - Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that somebody else (and certainly not you) was in the habit of buying a child ticket every day so as to evade half the fare. For as long as they got away with it, commuting in and out of work every day, they'd be defrauding Irish Rail of at least a tenner a week and helping to push everyone's fares higher than they needed to be. Would you not agree that a fine of €100 would be reasonable if and when they were caught?

Second - Let's say, again just for the sake of argument, that when they were eventually caught they claimed that it was the first time it had ever happened and they must have made a mistake in their hurry to buy a ticket. Do you honestly believe that should be sufficient grounds to let them get away with it?

Third - How are the Revenue Protection people supposed to be able to distinguish between the genuine mistake you made and the deliberate and persistent evasion described above?

I used to park in a pay-parking rail station and on just one occasion forgot to go to the machine and get a ticket. Needless to say, I was clamped when I got back that evening. Of course I was apopleptic at having to pay a release fee (I think it was €120) but I also realised it was entirely due to my own mistake and it made me damn careful never to let it happen again.

ebbsy · 01-08-2014 4:18pm

Would'nt bother paying the fine, see if ye can get away with it.

Zander1983 · 01-08-2014 5:23pm

Tom2 wrote: »

If you've calmed down, could I put three questions to you:

First - Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that somebody else (and certainly not you) was in the habit of buying a child ticket every day so as to evade half the fare. For as long as they got away with it, commuting in and out of work every day, they'd be defrauding Irish Rail of at least a tenner a week and helping to push everyone's fares higher than they needed to be. Would you not agree that a fine of €100 would be reasonable if and when they were caught?

Second - Let's say, again just for the sake of argument, that when they were eventually caught they claimed that it was the first time it had ever happened and they must have made a mistake in their hurry to buy a ticket. Do you honestly believe that should be sufficient grounds to let them get away with it?

Third - How are the Revenue Protection people supposed to be able to distinguish between the genuine mistake you made and the deliberate and persistent evasion described above?

I used to park in a pay-parking rail station and on just one occasion forgot to go to the machine and get a ticket. Needless to say, I was clamped when I got back that evening. Of course I was apopleptic at having to pay a release fee (I think it was €120) but I also realised it was entirely due to my own mistake and it made me damn careful never to let it happen again.

Clearly, there should be levels of offenses and first offense, second offense etc. One blanket fine is ridiculous. It's not like these things are hard to implement. 99% of people have the proper ticket so the staff are twiddling their thumbs most of the time, antsy to jump on any mistake from a customer. At the end of the day, this is appalling customer service.

LXFlyer · 01-08-2014 5:32pm

Zander1983 wrote: »

Clearly, there should be levels of offenses and first offense, second offense etc. One blanket fine is ridiculous. It's not like these things are hard to implement. 99% of people have the proper ticket so the staff are twiddling their thumbs most of the time, antsy to jump on any mistake from a customer. At the end of the day, this is appalling customer service.

Whether you like it or not, this is now pretty much standard practice across all transport operators be they here, in the UK or on the continent.

They do not have the time to be differentiating between first/second/later offenders - believe it or not the levels of fare evasion have been quite significant.

Since the zero tolerance approach was adopted, significant numbers of fines have been issued.

Unfortunately for you, I really think you're just going to have to take this on the chin as one of life's learning experiences.

Irish Rail have been very clear in their notices on this:
http://www.irishrail.ie/media/fixedpenaltydlleaflet1.pdf

Hilly Bill · 01-08-2014 5:34pm

Its always and "Accident" when you get caught and their fault, but never the persons fault for not checking what they were buying before paying for it. No sympathy.

Hilly Bill · 01-08-2014 5:36pm

Zander1983 wrote: »

This morning I bought a DART ticket in Drumcondra station on my way to Pearse station, but at Pearse station I was stopped and handed a 100 euro fine for travelling with a child ticket. I almost never take the Dart but my bike was punctured and I was in a rush to get to work early so took it this time. I'm almost certain I choose an Adult ticket in Drumcondra station. I remember thinking 1.15 euro was cheap but thought no more of it and got on the train. I was apoplectic when handed a fine. I have a good job, through which I pay vast taxes, and clearly either:

(a) made a mistake rather than intentionally screwing Irish Rail out of about 1 euro

or

(b) the machine in Drumcondra malfunctioned as I have never pressed "child" by accident before

Security kept me for 20 minutes because it took me ages to prove my address (my phone was dead).

What is incredibly annoying is the lack of common sense shown by Irish Rail security. Clearly, in my case, either (a) or (b) above applied and a fine was unjust. Instead, they handled the situation like a smug bunch of paid bullies, clearly delighted to have caught someone who had accidentally broken a rule. They seem incapable of employing what should be standard for any public servant - good sense and sound judgement.

Clearly, Irish Rail security are spending all their resources trying to catch people who may not have the right ticket - last week during the good weather, trains were predictably delayed due to vandalism and when it did arrive, was full of teenagers drinking heavily. Not a security guard to be seen.

I'm going to appeal this on the basis that I'm pretty sure I selected Adult on the machine (I will request CCTV footage).

Someone above pointed out Irish Rail staff read this forum. I hope so. Here's my message: try to do your bloody job while employing just a little bit of common sense for Christ's sake.

Try that one before putting money in the machine and buying the right ticket.

Hilly Bill · 01-08-2014 5:39pm

Zander1983 wrote: »

My problem is:

1/ Security show no common sense and clearly gloat when handing out fines
2/ Spend too much time at stations on work day mornings catching people off to earn money to pay taxes
3/ Ignore drinking on trains
4/ Ignore the many drug addicts on LUAS's red line

In short, they are an incompetent bunch of cowards who do nothing to tackle actual problems with rail travel in Dublin.

Is that because you got fined?

Zander1983 · 01-08-2014 6:25pm

@Hilly Bill

I can see you're very helpful around these parts

Fred Swanson · 01-08-2014 6:25pm

This post has been deleted.

Hilly Bill · 01-08-2014 6:30pm

Zander1983 wrote: »

@Hilly Bill

I can see you're very helpful around these parts

Thanks, i do my best.

DART fines process. Please help!

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