[PR] Customers warned of possible disruption to Cork services from Monday 15 May

Transport21 Fan · 16-05-2006 3:28pm

paulm17781 wrote:

Please don't say "Where does he condone it?". He most certainly does NOT condem it and makes out as though it is every one elses fault.

For the record I think IE management have behaved awfully on this. They're not the ones striking though.

The woman interviewed on the news yesterday outside An Statuin Ticketing Irregularities in Cork after she missed a business meeting in Dublin put it beautifully: "The whole company is a joke and should be privatised".

Privatisation of rail and bus services has been a success from the UK to Denmark. Now it is is Ireland's turn to join in.

CIE cannot be reformed nor rehabilitated into a normal public transport company. There is only one option now and it has to be full privatisation of all bus and rail services with public subidies for lesser used routes.

CIE does function normally on any level - never has, never will. If they have not proved it with this latest circus, then they never will. The decent and professional staff within CIE are just as much victims of this carry-on as the public transport users. Dedicated public transport professionals cannot shine while suffocated within the CIE quagmire as they are always being dragged with the bottom with the worst elements who hold all the cards within CIE.

Sacking the drivers on strike is the way to start the ball rolling. A message must be sent out to these clowns that their skanger tactics will be no longer tolerated.

SeanW · 16-05-2006 4:06pm

SeanW wrote:

I would REALLY love to see the CIE Branch Davidians on here explain THIS.

I guess they didn't take the challenge?

popebenny16 · 16-05-2006 4:11pm

There's a few on IRN doing it but even there its half hearted.

Red Alert · 16-05-2006 4:23pm

Transport21 Fan wrote:

The woman interviewed on the news yesterday outside An Statuin Ticketing Irregularities in Cork after she missed a business meeting in Dublin put it beautifully: "The whole company is a joke and should be privatised".

Great, let's ask Gerry Adams how he'd run the train service. A non-transport expert's opinion surely is worth it's weight in gold.

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Privatisation of rail and bus services has been a success from the UK to Denmark. Now it is is Ireland's turn to join in.

Really? In the UK it's been attributed to the rise of Railtrack, whose negligence left a few people dead. Locomotives and carriages have given way to Tin Cans. I know nothing about denmark so i can't comment. France has an excellent publicly run railway network - 1 euro to any destination within paris city centre!

Transport21 Fan wrote:

CIE cannot be reformed nor rehabilitated into a normal public transport company. There is only one option now and it has to be full privatisation of all bus and rail services with public subidies for lesser used routes.

Why not? Dunnes Stores had serious union issues, which forced the closure of several stores for a long period a number of years ago. This severly inconvenienced those in the inner city without cars as dunnes was the only convenient, cheap good quality supermarket. Nobody is going to buy CIE for a decent price, and I do not want to see a Babcock type parasite come in and take it for a pittance.

Transport21 Fan wrote:

CIE does function normally on any level - never has, never will. If they have not proved it with this latest circus, then they never will. The decent and professional staff within CIE are just as much victims of this carry-on as the public transport users. Dedicated public transport professionals cannot shine while suffocated within the CIE quagmire as they are always being dragged with the bottom with the worst elements who hold all the cards within CIE.

They cannot shine under the current government as Martin Cullen and co will not take it in hand to reform CIE. This is because FF backed by the PD's have an interest in running down the company to privatize it - Barry Kenny and his men are only too willing to do that for the government - look at the freight business. Salaries should be modest. Bonuses should be generous, performance-related and team-oriented. If the train leaves late, no bonus for the station manager, driver, guard, maintainence guy who caused the delay.

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Sacking the drivers on strike is the way to start the ball rolling. A message must be sent out to these clowns that their skanger tactics will be no longer tolerated.

You really want to inflame the situation? We want a train! There'd be realistically no hope of a resolution if that happenned.

Chris_533976 · 16-05-2006 4:31pm

In my little dream world, heres what would happen.

An announcement would be made by Iaranrod Eireann to the effect of "There will be no train services for the next month while we train new drivers".

Every single driver/etc who has gone on strike would be sacked without any redundancy pay and with no reference. An advertisment (well publicised) would be put out countrywide for new drivers. These new drivers would be given quick, intensive training and the service would resume as soon as they are trained.

I'd love to see the look on the faces of the drivers if they were all told "You're all fired" and were escorted out of the train station by security and/or the army

MarkoP11 · 16-05-2006 4:54pm

Problem is it takes 70 odd weeks to train a driver so the drivers know that they can't lose thats the problem, no matter what happens they still have a job

DART would be easy as it takes 18 odd weeks to train a driver

Its not easy to drive a train, its exceedingly complex the key learning curve is the need to know every inch of the lines the train operates over. They need to know where every signal is and where to brake, it takes over a mile to stop at 100mph so you need to visualise a point in the future where you will stop. The rule book is huge. The physical effort is easy. Put simply I know how to drive i.e. what levers to pull in which order but I know little of the finer details like starting the engine (not trivial with a 3200hp engine) and I'd completely misjudge the stopping distances. I know a certain UK journalist who drove a train around a test track he didn't crash but out in the real world I wouldn't want to be a passenger

You can't skimp on standards, poor training has led/contributed to a number of accidents in the UK

popebenny16 · 16-05-2006 4:56pm

and then it'd be like the miners strike in the 80's.

No, I think IE are on a winner here and the unions have been stupid to the point of negligence. This is not the ground to have this dispute on from the unions point of view. There are better battlefields ahead for them. The longer this goes on the more annoyed prople will get and the more pressure will be put onto the unions to get the drivers back to work.

Yet again I'll ask this question:

Why arent they driving the mark3, mark2d and commuter trains? Nothing is stopping them, no-one in IE is stopping them, they just dont want to.

If there is anyone on this board who can give me that answer please do.

murphaph · 16-05-2006 5:15pm

You wouldn't need 70 weeks to train new drivers because you'd be rehiring the existing bunch on totally different contracts (real-world private sector type contracts!). A few out and out skanger ringleaders would not be hired. There would still be sisruption but not as bad as people may think. Thoseboys know that train diving is a pretty decent job and they'd take it over whatever eles they'd get with 10+ years train driving experience!

The company wouldn't need to be privatised IMO, just rehire everyone on new contracts that mean instant dismissal for (for example) unofficial strike action.

अधिनायक · 16-05-2006 5:17pm

MarkoP11 wrote:

Problem is it takes 70 odd weeks to train a driver so the drivers know that they can't lose thats the problem, no matter what happens they still have a job

Only problem is it took me 200 weeks to train for my job and I paid for the training. In the last 10 years I have rarely received free training from an employer and would never dream of trying to extort money if offered training. I have done a lot of training in the past 10 years mostly paid for by me. I do whatever I am told to do for 8 hours a day and if I don't change job, I don't expect a pay rise beyond the market rate. If I want more money I train for a better paid job. I am happy with this arrangement. It's fair and it puts me in charge of my destiny. So long as I am employable I get paid. If I don't like my job I give my notice and work somewhere else.

Why has a system been created where people are offered jobs for life? Why is their training paid for? Why do their contracts not require them to retrain to whatever new technology appears? Why have they been allowed to expect that they will be given pay rises for doing the same job throughout that time? Why can't they be fired when they refuse to go to work? Why are their jobs denied to people who would gladly do them without taking the piss?

Why do the politicians sustain this system by supporting the unfair demands of these few and undermining the management against the needs of the people who elected them?

Why do we - the passengers - have to suffer while this circus continues?

I don't blame the workers. I'd do the same if I was in their position. Yum yum- extortion!

[PR] Customers warned of possible disruption to Cork services from Monday 15 May

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