July 12th...

I detest shinners and I'm pretty much an anglophile so this is not me pushing some sort of agenda

What would shinners have to do with it?

http://tubeimage.com/files/bs8527vk0iluwdl055h6.jpg

Dudess wrote: »

I was just saying I'm not pushing a republican agenda as I don't have time for republican zealots either.

Quality download - sums up 12th July pretty accurately.

Hmm, I don't see why that was worth a ''I despise the shinners'', just to add credibility to your argument. The father of Republicanism was a Protestant, and Republicanism is based on the prinicples of liberty, equality and fraternity. Therefore there is no religious superiority. I'm a Republican, does that mean I can't criticize the parades? I agree with you mostly, but to throw a dig at the shinners and general Republicanism in fear that it would void your argument is silly.

I see no orange men marching outside so I couldn't really give a ****.

The Orange Order, Republican Sinn Féin (the breakaway who haven't accepted the Dail yet :rolleyes: ) and the sort are embarrasing for all of us, because sadly you'll find people out there who think the country is still populated by their sort.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74511
That article, from before the planned Love Ulster march, has good info on the Orange Order. They've been happy enough to hang around with the likes of Johnny Adair for years, and one or two of them have let their thoughts on immigrants be known over the years too.

If you think the Orange lot in Ireland are bad, you should see them in Scotland for what its worth.... very bogey far-right wing connections, and a few of them even turn out to boo down the annual Bloody Sunday march.

To be honest the UK doesn't seem all that interested in the North, most British people see it as a waste of tax money, and I'm sure they'd much rather up and leave. What republicans need to think about is that a single-state island will probably need a new flag/anthem and god knows what else...I know the idea of a 'socialist republic' in Connollys vision say is a nice one, but in reality a nasty civil war would be far more likely.... the next few decades will be all about compromise.

"Understanding the reactionary origins of the Orange Order is central is understanding why the claims that the marches represent 'Protestant culture' is about on a par with claiming a Ku Klux Klan march represents 'white culture'. Indeed the very promotion of a separate 'Protestant' culture can only be seen as deeply reactionary in the context of the 6 counties. The term 'Protestant' culture is never used to include the Protestant republicans of 1798 or 1934, for instance. As such it's real meaning can only be 'anti-Catholic'"

from http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/ws99/ws57_order.html

It's my dogs second birthday today, I'm not fussed .

It's all about defiance though, isn't it? That's why it's calculated to be so obnoxious. The intimidation side of it is horrible of course, but in a way I can see why they feel the need to have a strong unifying in-your-face celebration of their culture every year. It's pretty clear that Britain doesn't really want them, and none of the parties in the Republic acknowledge their right to have a state on this island even where their numbers are in the majority, so I'd imagine they feel fairly beseiged, and not a bit put out. Their motherland rejects them, their adopted land wishes to reject the legitimicy of their wants. Their nauseating attitude is ever so slightly provoked really. Of course, there's no little amount of hate and bigotry in it from their side. There's a very slow creep towards a 32 county republic in progress now, and there's not much they can do to stop it in these days of integration, when growing numbers of young people are apathetic about who's in charge as long as there's money in their pockets. So the event is calculated by the old school bigwigs to invoke memories of heritage and antagonism as much as possible in order to remind their people of who they are and why trying keeping the north as it is is their duty. Not something I agree with at all, but I certainly think that if the nationalist side showed a bit more respect for the validity of the North's claim to be part of the Union then maybe they wouldn't feel the need to be quite so provocative about celebrating it. I hope this changes, because otherwise this weekend is going to become absolute terrible chaos every year once the 32 county republic comes clearly onto the horizon.

Its a shame the BBC and UTV dedicate their "Glorious Twelfth" programmes to this crowd of sectarian idiots. They might as well cover the KKK rallies.

I grew up with these morons. I notice the BBC and UTV don't feature the "burn the catholics" songs and try to portray them as nice upstanding gents.

They are thankfully finished and they know it. You can guarantee on the 13th they'll be gladly taking the euros from the southern papists

PrivateEye wrote: »

I don't know about their 'majority' really though. Nowadays I think the majority of people in Ireland are indifferent, but think about the time of partition.

Or else getting on an anti republican high horse.

You have THREE counties in Ulster excluded from the state. The reasons for this were obvious- to install a unionist majority.

And don't forget gerrymandering.
Anyway, the fact that they're in the (not very sizable) majority doesn't legitimise them having everything their way and catholics having little or no say ("tyranny of the majority").

Why would a ''socialist republic'' ignite a civil war?

I don't think the prodestant working class would buy into it.

All historical struggles where the orange and green came together (like the Belfast strikes in 1907) were eventually smashed on sectarian grounds. I think the unionist community would be very skeptical of a united Ireland, even if it was in their interests economically.

The reunification of Ireland, on any terms, would ignite a civil war I think. They won't just go away like, or start waving green/red flags.

My family were SF in the 70s, and my Grandad was a firm believer in the 'socialist republic' idea. He was mainly a staunch anti-fascist type of republican, who believed the prodestant working class could be convinced to join a united Ireland if it was in their interests.

It's not the 70s now, the economics of the country (both sides of the border) are completely different, and I don't think a United Ireland will be something they wil embrace with open arms. Arms however may be seen.