NCT passed but car not roadworthy ?

Guy:Incognito · 23-03-2014 7:09pm

kona wrote: »

It is obvious

So whats the issue with them checking the VIN then?

kona · 23-03-2014 7:11pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So what?, never bother checking Vin numbers on cars? Let people ring cars, swap plates and do as they please? If your sold a car that's a cut and shut then a vin most definitely becomes a roadworthiness item.

You should check the vin when you are buying the car. They won't issue a "road worthiness " cert IF they cannot either read it or find it or it's wrong.
VIN isn't a road worthiness item. Bald tyres are for example.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The NCT is the handiest place to have various things checked while they are in for a test. a car that's in order is never going to fail on a Vin number issue so whats the problem? It makes the most sense. But don't let that get in the way of a good moan.

Yes it is handy, but you get what you pay for which is a poor inconsistent test.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Would you rather have to go in for a second test to check all the things you don't think should be done on a roadworthiness test?

I'd rather not have to go take a "tester " by the hand and do his job for him which I've had to do to get my cert.
I'd rather they leave a road worthiness test to road worthiness items.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

you seem to just want to give out, but don't have a proper direction for it. A periodic check for cars is a good thing, end of.

Yes it's a good thing, however it's a **** test that's open to abuse, people should treat nct as a guide it's in no way a indication of road worthiness.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Cars over 10 years getting a one year cert will happen either way, regardless of what younger cars get . Would you rather it was a 1 year cert from the time the car turns 1? I have a feeling that regardless of the make up of it, you'll find something to give out about.

Yea I would rather that or every car gets 2 years. Instead of manipulating a "road worthiness" test to force people to buy new cars and support a industry

colm_mcm · 23-03-2014 7:12pm

kona wrote: »

A racket tbh, they call it a road worthiness test but there's so much bull**** from them it just makes it look like it a scam.

Since when is a vin number a road worthiness item for example? ( now I know your going to say prevents ringing, BUT I wouldn't class it as road worthiness tbh)
Another is two cars pass the same test on the same day, one gets 6 months the other 2 years.
Another is the op example.
Pre 80 doesn't need it , 80- +10 years is a year, under ten is two years. Why does the same test have different lengths of validity?

Then another is if you've a LSD fitted and they lash it on the brake tester and destroy it.

To be fair it has removed alot of ****e from the road but IMO it leaves alot to be desired.

Sorry bout the smiley above don't know how it got there!

None of the above makes the NCT a racket. Any test in any civilized country you can mention will have some sort of brake test using rollers - it's not a situation unique to Ireland.

Re the length of test you get on the day, if you get 6 months test, it means you're either 6 or 18 months late.
Giving someone who has not kept their test up to date a 2 year cert is effectively rewarding them for putting the test off.

Re the 4/10 year thing, the logic probably is that owners of brand new cars can afford to maintain them, and will service them and keep them roadworthy.

Cars over 10 years old are usually worth very little, so there are potentially more bad ones out there, so an annual test keeps them in check. Certainly judging on threads here on boards, a car with a new NCT seems to represent one that has had all its faults fixed, and an NCT date is a deadline to get all the little defects building up for the last year fixed.

Of course you will also occasionally have people with 10 year old cars who religiously maintain them, and new cars that are abused.

Checking VIN seems logical to prevent ringing, and prevent the same car being tested many times using number plates from deathtraps of the same model/colour. It also removes any leeway that the tester or customer may have on what exact car was tested on the day.

Its clear that the NCT isn't 100% perfect! but is still superior to the likes of the UK MOT where a garage does it.

Fair enough if you don't like the NCT, but your reasons for calling it a racket are a little unlikely.

kona · 23-03-2014 7:13pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So whats the issue with them checking the VIN then?

I've a issue with them FAILING a car on it. What's wrong with a advisory?

Guy:Incognito · 23-03-2014 7:16pm

kona wrote: »

I've a issue with them FAILING a car on it. What's wrong with a advisory?

So if I get your car, that's the same model and colour as mine, stick my plates on it to try get an NCT for my car, which is a ****heap, it should pass?

colm_mcm · 23-03-2014 7:17pm

kona wrote: »

I've a issue with them FAILING a car on it. What's wrong with a advisory?

What, they advise you that your car isn't the same as the one in the reg documents?

I'd imagine that sort of thing IS important and the only way you should get an NCT disc is if your car is the exact one on the ownership docs,

kona · 23-03-2014 7:20pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So if I get your car, that's the same model and colour as mine, stick my plates on it to try get an NCT for my car, which is a ****heap, it should pass?

I take it you've swapped the vin plates, engine numbers and possibly glass over too?

A stamp is a stamp too nothing a hour with filler , paint and a hammer And stamps wouldn't solve.

slimjimmc · 23-03-2014 7:21pm

goz83 wrote: »

They couldn't rescind the current cert, could they?

They can rescind if the cert should not have been issued in the first place.

kona wrote: »

That's totally irrelevant in the case of a "test". Both cars should get the same time, also it's to do with your year of registration not how overdue it is.

Nct is enforced and lack of punished by road traffic acts not the nct themselves.

There is specific NCT legislation which specifies how and when certs are issued and expire. NCTS just follow the law, they have no say in the expiry date.

Guy:Incognito · 23-03-2014 7:22pm

kona wrote: »

I take it you've swapped the vin plates, engine numbers and possibly glass over too?

Why? Sure itd only be an advisory under your system. Sure I could just grind them off altogether.

kona · 23-03-2014 7:26pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why? Sure itd only be an advisory under your system. Sure I could just grind them off altogether.

So you would fail a car presented for a road worthiness test with the engine number vin plate , etched glass all matching docs but you couldn't find the chassis stamp?

colm_mcm · 23-03-2014 7:29pm

kona wrote: »

So you would fail a car presented for a road worthiness test with the engine number vin plate , etched glass all matching docs but you couldn't find the chassis stamp?

Don't some Renaults not have a chassis stamp?

kona · 23-03-2014 7:31pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Don't some Renaults not have a chassis stamp?

I dont know but then they will never be road worthy will they?

colm_mcm · 23-03-2014 7:33pm

kona wrote: »

I dont know but then they will never be road worthy will they?

Ah sure they're Renaults, there'd always be something wrong either way etc etc etc

Guy:Incognito · 23-03-2014 7:35pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Don't some Renaults not have a chassis stamp?

IIRC the issue is location rather than them being missing altogether. The Scenic is one that's come up a few time I think but ours has passed every time so it must be in one of the more obvious locations. I'm sure Renault has a list of the places they stamp but the NCT either hasn't been given the list or looked for it.

porsche959 · 23-03-2014 7:36pm

aquarius10 wrote: »

My 20 yr old son bought a 1998 car for €1000 recently through done deal and paid cash. it had just passed the NCT And looked ok. You'd think it would be a Safe bet ?

He has since put it up on a lift and checked by a mechanic who cannot believe it recently passed an NCT due to the amount of rust & corrosion on the chassis underneath. It will need a lot of work done to pass the next NCT.

The person who sold the car works in the local NCT centre. Alarm bells ringing in my head !

Before we phone the seller, have we any comeback ? Is there an ombudsman or what should we do ... I honestly think he has pulled a fast one, advice please

Exact same thing happened to me with a Jaguar XJ-S. Passed the NCT no problem but took it to a Jaguar specialist and he said "that car is not roadworthy due to corrosion under the bonnet".

kona · 23-03-2014 7:38pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Ah sure they're Renaults, there'd always be something wrong either way etc etc etc

Heh heh heh:pac:

slimjimmc · 23-03-2014 7:40pm

kona wrote: »

So you would fail a car presented for a road worthiness test with the engine number vin plate , etched glass all matching docs but you couldn't find the chassis stamp?

They are not required to check engine number and glass etching is no proof of anything really. The only thing they are required to check is the VIN (usually the windscreen or chassis plate/stamp).

If they can't find the VIN it's up to you to locate it, in the meantime they'll probably still do the test but can't issue a cert until you can show them the mark.

From the NCT manual

The Vehicle Identification Number on the vehicle must correspond with the information on the Vehicle Registration File/Book/Licence Certificate. Where difficulty is encountered in locating the Vehicle Identification Number it is the responsibility of the applicant to establish the location of this information on the vehicle.

kona · 23-03-2014 7:43pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

IIRC the issue is location rather than them being missing altogether. The Scenic is one that's come up a few time I think but ours has passed every time so it must be in one of the more obvious locations. I'm sure Renault has a list of the places they stamp but the NCT either hasn't been given the list or looked for it.

Well if nct tester can't find it, he's not doing his job, he's testing the car every car is stamped, so he can't just say **** this and fail the car because he either hasn't the relevant info to hand or is just plain lazy.

This is my point. He could fail a perfectly roadworthy car unfairly. In know it's only a visual, but most people would have to pay a garage to find the stamp or say where it is.

Unless you have to ability to test every single car to the relevant standard , don't have things in the test that can cause a FAIL for no reason, ADVISORY would be adequate.

If the vin plate , engine no and all the other info matches it should be acceptable.

Another example say the area stamped was cut out and replaced due to corrosion?

funnights74 · 23-03-2014 7:45pm

Stella Virgo wrote: »

the likes of of you get up everyone's hole with your stupidity. you go out and buy a pile, for a grand cash.believe everything that your told like a gullible fool. then AFTER :pac: getting the car, put it up on the rack and find loads of problems, how many ****ing times do the likes of you need to be told to inspect the car BEFORE you buy it. its everybody's fault except your own.....:rolleyes::pac::pac:

Fair point, but rather crudely put.

kona · 23-03-2014 7:51pm

slimjimmc wrote: »

They are not required to check engine number and glass etching is no proof of anything really. The only thing they are required to check is the VIN (usually the windscreen or chassis plate/stamp).
l

The windscreen isn't acceptable.

slimjimmc wrote: »

If they can't find the VIN it's up to you to locate it, in the meantime they'll probably still do the test but can't issue a cert until you can show them the mark.
l

Rubbish if they can't perform a requirement of the test they should either get the staff who can or buy in manuals/ info that can tell them where the location of stamps are.

It's not my role as customer to take the tester by the hand to show them how to do their job. The fact it's in the manual is just them covering their ass.

I'd love to ring a car and send it through just to show what a joke it is.

timmy4u2 · 23-03-2014 8:07pm

porsche959 wrote: »

Exact same thing happened to me with a Jaguar XJ-S. Passed the NCT no problem but took it to a Jaguar specialist and he said "that car is not roadworthy due to corrosion under the bonnet".

Corrosion under the bonnet?

slimjimmc · 23-03-2014 8:14pm

kona wrote: »

The windscreen isn't acceptable.

Rubbish if they can't perform a requirement of the test they should either get the staff who can or buy in manuals/ info that can tell them where the location of stamps are.

It's not my role as customer to take the tester by the hand to show them how to do their job. The fact it's in the manual is just them covering their ass.

I'd love to ring a car and send it through just to show what a joke it is.

It's not rubbish, it's there is black and white, read the manual yourself. Actually under the legislation they can refuse to do the test. If the car is a mainstream model available in the EU I agree they should have all details of VIN locations but some cars are not mainstream models or even models available in the EU, they can't be expected to know the VIN locations of every model worldwide.
And what if the VIN stamp is not where it is supposed to be?

It's not their job to go hunting for hidden or missing stamps.

goz83 · 23-03-2014 8:17pm

While I do believe it is necessary to have a national car testing facility and for it to be compulsory, i am left frustrated by how the ncts operates. Some of my views:

The vin absolutely shoukd be checked to make sure they are issuing a cert for the right car. But, as I mentioned earlier, i have put my car 1997 car through the nct a few times now and they only noticed the one digit error late last year. Time ran out on the retest and i booked a fresh test and they disn't mention the vin this time.

Instead, within a matter of a couple of months, they decided to fail my car on "advanced corrosion" of the brake line (oddly not spotted before and according to two independent mechanics, is only light surface corrosion).

They also failed my hid lights, which have been there since I bought the car. I now have rubbish standard lights not much better than a key ring torch.

I also take issue with the window tinting. Some centres seem to ignore it, while others hammer you for it. Factory tinted sun shade is ok, but after market is not! You're allowed to wear Snoop Dogg shades while driving at night, but a sun strip (not one covering half the screen) is not allowed? Joke of a system.

And many motorists are penalised when they buy a car with an out of date nct. They shouldn't have to receive a short nct because the previous owner didn't/couldn't get the car tested.

kona · 23-03-2014 8:48pm

slimjimmc wrote: »

It's not rubbish, it's there is black and white, read the manual yourself. Actually under the legislation they can refuse to do the test. If the car is a mainstream model available in the EU I agree they should have all details of VIN locations but some cars are not mainstream models or even models available in the EU, they can't be expected to know the VIN locations of every model worldwide.
And what if the VIN stamp is not where it is supposed to be?

It's not their job to go hunting for hidden or missing stamps.

Well then if it's not their job to look for the stamp then why is it on the test? What's the difference between hunting and looking? The testers descretion?

They *could* apply common sense if they can't find the stamp but everything else is in order.

My car was failed on the stamp despite having the vin number on a load of different places. It's clearly the car that's presented, the stamp is in a place that's known, Infact he said that he checked where it was, there's even a mark in the carpet where it is.

Basically he was failing my car because he was inept.

JohnBoy26 · 23-03-2014 8:49pm

A car with large amounts of corrosion underneath will still pass an nct as long as there is no holes present.

slimjimmc · 23-03-2014 9:07pm

kona wrote: »

Well then if it's not their job to look for the stamp then why is it on the test? What's the difference between hunting and looking? The testers descretion?

I said it's not their job to look for missing or hidden stamps, not just stamps. It's on the test for the reasons already given in this thread.

Looking= locations known
hunting = locations unknown

It's tester's discretion to decide if he can't find it after a reasonable effort. He only has an limited amount of time for the test after all. Many checks rely on a tester's discretion.

kona wrote: »

They *could* apply common sense if they can't find the stamp but everything else is in order.

My car was failed on the stamp despite having the vin number on a load of different places. It's clearly the car that's presented, the stamp is in a place that's known, Infact he said that he checked where it was, there's even a mark in the carpet where it is.

Basically he was failing my car because he was inept.

If it should have been well known to him then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

slimjimmc · 23-03-2014 9:11pm

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

A car with large amounts of corrosion underneath will still pass an nct as long as there is no holes present.

No, it depends on where the corrosion is and the extent of decay. Surface rust is acceptable on all body structure.
See page 56 of the NCT Manual.

porsche959 · 23-03-2014 10:22pm

timmy4u2 wrote: »

Corrosion under the bonnet?

Sorry, I meant corrosion on the underbody.

NCT passed but car not roadworthy ?

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