Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

molloyjh · 15-11-2012 9:06pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

If he turns out to be a Strauss like find he'll be kept on but when his signing was announced Schmidt mentioned that he was looking for a player to bridge the gap between the older (Ross) and younger (Furlong & Moore). If the latter two kick on and live up to their potential I dont think we'd hang onto Bent unless he's a lot better than them.

He could always move province if that ever happens? We need at least 4 THs anyway given international commitments at the moment. If O'Connell were to focus on LH then that leaves Hagan, Moore and Furlong covering TH when the internationals aren't available. I don't think that's too much.

totallegend wrote: »

He'll have to if the IRFU stick to their anti-foreigner policy

Am I the only one who thinks it would be a bit ridiculous to enforce this so strictly with Leinster given that 4-5 of our front row players are part of the international set-up? There's only so many Irish or IQ front rows out there. And we're producing plenty at the moment. Common sense should prevail on this one. With Healy unavailable so much McGrath and O'Connell isn't adequate LH cover IMO.

goreyguy · 15-11-2012 9:09pm

McGrath and O'Connell is plenty of cover along with Byrne is the academy.

Leinster either trust the young players they have or they don't, keeping VDM prevents home grown players like McGrath and O'Connell from developing.

As they key to development is experience.

molloyjh · 15-11-2012 9:16pm

goreyguy wrote: »

McGrath and O'Connell is plenty of cover along with Byrne is the academy.

Leinster either trust the young players they have or they don't, keeping VDM prevents home grown players like McGrath and O'Connell from developing.

As they key to development is experience.

You don't want to rush your props. McGrath looks ready to make the step up now and I'd expect to see a good bit of him this season. He could well surpass VDM naturally over the next 12 months and do it at his own pace. But VDM is a big squad player and if McGrath were to be injured would we be comfortable with O'Connell as starting prop in September?

Tox56 · 15-11-2012 9:24pm

Baker87 wrote: »

Whats the feeling on Furlong and Moore? Who has more promise?

I haven't yet see Moore play, saw Furlong in the u20's last campaign and was obviously impressed.

Tough to say, Furlong got all the hype because of his U20 performances, but Moore has looked comfortable at Rabo level, and Furlong hasn't played at that level yet.

goreyguy · 15-11-2012 9:24pm

McGrath looked ready to step up last season aswell, using the what if he gets injured excuse is dumb. Anyone could get injured, and we might not have sufficient depth. I don't know about you but I'd much rather we put faith into McGrath being ready to step up than delaying and losing him because we were afraid he might get injured and we wouldn't have enough cover despite having another talented you prop behind him in O'Connell.

Tox56 · 15-11-2012 9:25pm

goreyguy wrote: »

McGrath looked ready to step up last season aswell, using the what if he gets injured excuse is dumb. Anyone could get injured, and we might not have sufficient depth. I don't know about you but I'd much rather we put faith into McGrath being ready to step up than delaying and losing him because we were afraid he might get injured and we wouldn't have enough cover despite having another talented you prop behind him in O'Connell.

But Healy has to be one of the most frequently injured players in the Leinster squad. If he did get injured would you like to have O'Connell play in a H Cup game before he's ready?

goreyguy · 15-11-2012 9:26pm

Furlong has been pretty injury prone so far, need to take him slow. Moore has looked solid every time i've seen him.

Hagz · 15-11-2012 9:29pm

Tox56 wrote: »

But Healy has to be one of the most frequently injured players in the Leinster squad.

I guess, if you're talking about the amount of times he looks in pieces in-game. But outside of the 80 mins, Healy has been pretty blessed. What's the longest we've had to go without his services? Outside of international windows of course.

goreyguy · 15-11-2012 9:32pm

Tox56 wrote: »

But Healy has to be one of the most frequently injured players in the Leinster squad. If he did get injured would you like to have O'Connell play in a H Cup game before he's ready?

So if Healy gets injured and McGrath gets injured and we are left with O'Connell would I be happy? of course not, but its a sport anyone could get injured at any stage. Its a risky game, to suggest we should not trust mcgrath because he might get injured and then we would be down to "only" Healy and O'Connell is just being overly protective.

I want to see young academy players being successful at Leinster, not at other province or club because we were to afraid to trust them incase they got injured. McGrath has done pretty much everything possible to date to show he is ready to start playing a lot more regularly than he has so far. Keeping VDM (who has been a great servant for Leinster) past this season, is just preventing McGrath from progressing at Leinster. And in turn preventing O'Connell from more opportunities to show his worth.

Tox56 · 15-11-2012 9:33pm

Hagz wrote: »

I guess, if you're talking about the amount of times he looks in pieces in-game. But outside of the 80 mins, Healy has been pretty blessed. What's the longest we've had to go without his services? Outside of international windows of course.

Yeah he has been lucky enough in that regard, but then again he is only 24. The sort of punishment he puts his body through will have to take its toll at some point.

irishbucsfan · 15-11-2012 9:42pm

Michael Bent plays both sides as well iirc

We need to remove the safety blanket. We'll be fine. If we suffer 2 injuries to loose heads we'll suffer exactly as any other team would. O'Connell is a good player anyway and Ed Byrne will be along in a couple of years as well, hopefully forcing another player out!

Baker87 · 15-11-2012 9:49pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Michael Bent plays both sides as well iirc

We need to remove the safety blanket. We'll be fine. If we suffer 2 injuries to loose heads we'll suffer exactly as any other team would. O'Connell is a good player anyway and Ed Byrne will be along in a couple of years as well, hopefully forcing another player out!

Is that the guy off Clongowes SC team of last year?

Looked a tad small for me if I remember correctly, granted he has plenty of time to develop.

tolosenc · 15-11-2012 9:59pm

Baker87 wrote: »

Is that the guy off Clongowes SC team of last year?

Looked a tad small for me if I remember correctly, granted he has plenty of time to develop.

molloyjh · 15-11-2012 10:08pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Michael Bent plays both sides as well iirc

We need to remove the safety blanket. We'll be fine. If we suffer 2 injuries to loose heads we'll suffer exactly as any other team would. O'Connell is a good player anyway and Ed Byrne will be along in a couple of years as well, hopefully forcing another player out!

Just to be clear I'm not talking about 2 LH injuries. I'm talking about Healy and Bent not being available for parts of the season due to the player welfare. If VDM goes that leaves us with McGrath (no issues there) and O'Connell (who has a grand total of 10 mins Pro12 experience so far).

The great thing about VDM is that we haven't had to rush McGrath and now he looks like he could overtake VDM this/next season anyway. That doesn't mean we no longer need VDM though. With VDM there we can conitune to develop O'Connell the same way we did McGrath. O'Connell is only 22 so he's still a baby.

15-11-2012 10:08pm

also, as seen before, if we lost Healy and McGrath we'd probably be allowed an emergency Brad Thorn

Foxtrol · 15-11-2012 10:22pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Just to be clear I'm not talking about 2 LH injuries. I'm talking about Healy and Bent not being available for parts of the season due to the player welfare. If VDM goes that leaves us with McGrath (no issues there) and O'Connell (who has a grand total of 10 mins Pro12 experience so far).

The great thing about VDM is that we haven't had to rush McGrath and now he looks like he could overtake VDM this/next season anyway. That doesn't mean we no longer need VDM though. With VDM there we can conitune to develop O'Connell the same way we did McGrath. O'Connell is only 22 so he's still a baby.

If we lost VdM at the end of the season we'd be in the same position as we'd been in previous years. I the past we had Healy (first choice), VdM (strong back up), McGrath (young up & comer) and now we'd have Healy (first choice), McGrath (strong back up), O'Connell (young up and comer). If we include Bent being able to play both sides and Tracey (who could move back to LH if there was an emergency) and also the academy VdM is sadly a luxury we dont really need and would more than likely make us lose at least one of our young homegrown props.

BTW how great is it that we're debating possibly having too many props who are practically all Irish qualified and mostly academy graduates?

irishbucsfan · 15-11-2012 10:26pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Just to be clear I'm not talking about 2 LH injuries. I'm talking about Healy and Bent not being available for parts of the season due to the player welfare. If VDM goes that leaves us with McGrath (no issues there) and O'Connell (who has a grand total of 10 mins Pro12 experience so far).

The great thing about VDM is that we haven't had to rush McGrath and now he looks like he could overtake VDM this/next season anyway. That doesn't mean we no longer need VDM though. With VDM there we can conitune to develop O'Connell the same way we did McGrath. O'Connell is only 22 so he's still a baby.

Yeah if O'Connell isn't ready then I'd be happy with Van Der Merwe signing another contract.

He's not a baby though, he's only a little younger than McGrath. I think he's ready to play Pro 12 rugby. Player Welfare is only really going to affect a minority of games, and not any important games (ie, Heineken cup games or playoff games) so I don't think we should be worried about O'Connell there.

I worry though that Van Der Merwe will be brought back solely due to the Lions tour and that could set the whole thing back a bit. It's not really the end of the world, VDM has been a great player for us and I like the guy.

Tox56 · 15-11-2012 10:30pm

The management will know the situation and hopefully they'll start giving McGrath and particularly O'Connell more serious gametime to prepare for VdM's possible departure. If O'Connell shows he is up to it, and McGrath builds on his promise, then losing VdM wouldn't be that big a blow.

irishbucsfan · 15-11-2012 10:33pm

Another player to mention is Royce Burke-Flynn. Not currently involved but he is playing very well this season according to Clontarfians. He has professional experience at a high level. If he continues to perform then he could be given a developmental contract as well.

goreyguy · 15-11-2012 10:49pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Another player to mention is Royce Burke-Flynn. Not currently involved but he is playing very well this season according to Clontarfians. He has professional experience at a high level. If he continues to perform then he could be given a developmental contract as well.

Would be pretty surprising considering the depth we have, would be a smart move by another province though.

.ak · 15-11-2012 10:52pm

Props are a strange folk that, if memory serves me correctly, live in mountains and carve origami out of rock.. with their bare hands. They live to a ripe old age and don't take kindly to being exposed to direct sunlight...

Basically I don't think we need to worry about pushing McGrath, O'Connell, Moore of Furlong out into the wilderness just yet. Patience...

CIARAN_BOYLE · 15-11-2012 10:54pm

goreyguy wrote: »

Would be pretty surprising considering the depth we have, would be a smart move by another province though.

I think that he meant signing him as a depth option at LH in case of injuries if VDM goes.

Or even bringing him in occasionally from the AIL to play A rugby if there are a few players out due to injuries.

molloyjh · 15-11-2012 11:55pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

BTW how great is it that we're debating possibly having too many props who are practically all Irish qualified and mostly academy graduates?

Absolutely.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah if O'Connell isn't ready then I'd be happy with Van Der Merwe signing another contract.

He's not a baby though, he's only a little younger than McGrath. I think he's ready to play Pro 12 rugby. Player Welfare is only really going to affect a minority of games, and not any important games (ie, Heineken cup games or playoff games) so I don't think we should be worried about O'Connell there.

I worry though that Van Der Merwe will be brought back solely due to the Lions tour and that could set the whole thing back a bit. It's not really the end of the world, VDM has been a great player for us and I like the guy.

The way I look at it McGrath is pretty much ready for regular Pro12 game time. O'Connell needs more time. He's on the bench for the B&I cup games behind McGrath and has only 2 senior caps to McGraths 23 (and they were both over a year ago now). He won't be getting much game time this season, if any, as well. He's not going to be ready for Pro12 action by September, even just coming off the bench. If we bring him in for a few of the smaller game next season and have him regularly start in the B&I Cup we can then see about getting rid of VDM for the 14/15 season.

goreyguy · 15-11-2012 11:59pm

We won't know if O'Connell is ready for the Pro12 until he starts to play in the pro12 and thats not going to happen with VDM in the squad. Also McGrath needs all those starts and sub appearances that would otherwise be going to VDM to keep improving, next season when he turns 24 is perfect timing for that. By then O'Connell will be 23 and also ready for an expanded role as the third LH.

molloyjh · 16-11-2012 12:13am

goreyguy wrote: »

We won't know if O'Connell is ready for the Pro12 until he starts to play in the pro12 and thats not going to happen with VDM in the squad.

But if we get rid of VDM only to find out O'Connell isn't ready what then? There's really no rush to get him involved. He isn't even starting for the As at the moment and you want him in the senior squad? All I'm saying is give him the extra year to get a bit more game time under his belt so we know where we stand with him. There's no reason we can't get him onto the bench in a few games like Dragons or Zebre next season while having him start for the As. That will give us a clear indication of where he is developmentally. Bring him through the same way we brought McGrath through. It took McGrath 2 full seasons to get from where O'Connell is at the moment to where he is now.

goreyguy · 16-11-2012 12:21am

He isn't starting games at A level because McGrath is stuck there because he can't getting enough playing time at the Pro12 level as is there is a log jam created by VDM.

McGrath is as talented or more talented than both Kilcoyne and Buckley but because we have a NIQ prop in front of him, he is stuck abusing props at 'A' level as opposed to challenging himself weekly at a higher level as both Buckley and Kilcoyne are doing.

Foxtrol · 16-11-2012 12:21am

molloyjh wrote: »

But if we get rid of VDM only to find out O'Connell isn't ready what then? There's really no rush to get him involved. He isn't even starting for the As at the moment and you want him in the senior squad? All I'm saying is give him the extra year to get a bit more game time under his belt so we know where we stand with him. There's no reason we can't get him onto the bench in a few games like Dragons or Zebre next season while having him start for the As. That will give us a clear indication of where he is developmentally. Bring him through the same way we brought McGrath through. It took McGrath 2 full seasons to get from where O'Connell is at the moment to where he is now.

But McGrath was only dealing with 2 players ahead of him where as O'Connell would be dealing with possibly 4 (if you include Bent). I just dont think Leinster can afford to either keep VDM as a 3rd choice (which I doubt he'd be happy with himself) or to not give McGrath the game time VDM is getting this year.

molloyjh · 16-11-2012 12:41am

Foxtrol wrote: »

But McGrath was only dealing with 2 players ahead of him where as O'Connell would be dealing with possibly 4 (if you include Bent). I just dont think Leinster can afford to either keep VDM as a 3rd choice (which I doubt he'd be happy with himself) or to not give McGrath the game time VDM is getting this year.

So mix and match who starts, the same way we see with Reddan and Boss. Put VDM on the bench for some HEC games, McGrath for others. McGrath should be able to take his place in 14/15 without any noticeable drop in quality. In the meantime start giving O'Connell more game time at both A and senior level.

This "log jam" isn't created by VDM. It's created by the coaching staff who believe we need VDM. For as good as McGrath looks he's not ready to come off the bench against Clermont in SMM. So whatever about next season we need VDM this season. That means O'Connells game time this season will be limited. That will only change when the coaching staff believe McGrath is ready to take over from VDM.

Podge_irl · 16-11-2012 12:59am

molloyjh wrote: »

The way I look at it McGrath is pretty much ready for regular Pro12 game time. O'Connell needs more time. He's on the bench for the B&I cup games behind McGrath and has only 2 senior caps to McGraths 23 (and they were both over a year ago now).

Jaysus, I never would have guessed that McGrath had 23 senior appearances.

Tox56 · 16-11-2012 1:00am

Podge_irl wrote: »

Jaysus, I never would have guessed that McGrath had 23 senior appearances.

Only 5 starts though, definitely being eased in.

molloyjh · 16-11-2012 1:07am

Tox56 wrote: »

Only 5 starts though, definitely being eased in.

Which seems to be working well. All the more reason to do the same for O'Connell. Even if he's only starting to get regular senior game time in 14/15 he'll still only be 24, which is the same age Kilcoyne is now (or at least will be in a few weeks).

goreyguy · 16-11-2012 1:21am

The only way O'Connell can be eased in the same way, is for McGrath to graduate to be a regular starter in the Pro12. Which will only happen once VDM has left Leinster.

Hagz · 16-11-2012 1:24am

The experiment of Coghlan in the centre seems to be going quite well so. From what I've heard and read he's been quite impressive for UCD there, and he apparently did decent in this game.

I just hope the possibility of him playing blindside isn't discarded. I know we have depth there with McLaughlin (O'Brien well able to fit in, as is Ryan), Ruddock and Marshall, but Coghlan was great there in the u20s. He's played excellent at 7 for the B&I cup side as well.

Perhaps he will become uniquely versatile and cover both back-row and centre. He's obviously a very athletic player.

irishbucsfan · 16-11-2012 1:38am

molloyjh wrote: »

Which seems to be working well. All the more reason to do the same for O'Connell. Even if he's only starting to get regular senior game time in 14/15 he'll still only be 24, which is the same age Kilcoyne is now (or at least will be in a few weeks).

Well all you're pointing out is that VDM should move on if that's the case.

Currently we have Healy in the starting position, Van Der Merwe as the H Cup backup/Pro 12 starter and McGrath as the Pro 12 backup/A team starter.

If VDM were to leave we would have Healy as the starter, McGrath as the H Cup backup/Pro 12 starter and O'Connell as the Pro 12 backup/A team starter.

McGrath has been our 3rd choice now pretty much since Ronnie McCormack retired iirc. He retired at the end of 09/10 and McGrath was completely unproven. I don't see why we should be afraid to put O'Connell in the same position as him.

goreyguy · 16-11-2012 1:40am

i've read differently on coughlan, too slow being the main complaint.

Podge_irl · 16-11-2012 1:41am

Hagz wrote: »

The experiment of Coghlan in the centre seems to be going quite well so. From what I've heard and read he's been quite impressive for UCD there, and he apparently did decent in this game.

I just hope the possibility of him playing blindside isn't discarded. I know we have depth there with McLaughlin (O'Brien well able to fit in, as is Ryan), Ruddock and Marshall, but Coghlan was great there in the u20s. He's played excellent at 7 for the B&I cup side as well.

Perhaps he will become uniquely versatile and cover both back-row and centre. He's obviously a very athletic player.

Leinster's need at 12 is a lot more pressing then their need in an already crowded backrow though. From what I've seen of him, if he adjusts to the position well then he could be an excellent big centre. I'd rather see him kept at the one position for the next season or two - be that 12 or 6.

Podge_irl · 16-11-2012 1:42am

goreyguy wrote: »

i've read differently on coughlan, too slow being the main complaint.

I've only seen glimpses of him at 12. Obviously he is very fast for a backrow, but I suppose that could be a concern.

shuffol · 16-11-2012 1:53am

IMO the provinces are there ultimately to serve the national side, with our small playing pool we cant afford to have talents like McGrath 3rd choice when he looks ready to play HEC rugby now. We have to be more willing to give young players a chance, Look at what happened with Zebo for Munster last season, Howletts injury gave him a chance and 12 mths later he's the best left wing in the country. What would've happened had Howlett not suffered his injury? Give Mcgrath half a dozen starts and I'm sure he'll show himslef to be the 2nd best loosehead in the country.

.ak · 16-11-2012 9:09am

goreyguy wrote: »

i've read differently on coughlan, too slow being the main complaint.

Read that too. However, that could've just been the case for yesterday's game.

He's not slow, he burned half the Leeds team on the wing with Hudson last time he played in Donnybrook.

As a 12 I wouldn't give a flying feck if he only had a pace of a prop tbh, so long as he learns his running lines, offloads and defensive positioning.

.ak · 16-11-2012 9:12am

shuffol wrote: »

IMO the provinces are there ultimately to serve the national side, with our small playing pool we cant afford to have talents like McGrath 3rd choice when he looks ready to play HEC rugby now. We have to be more willing to give young players a chance, Look at what happened with Zebo for Munster last season, Howletts injury gave him a chance and 12 mths later he's the best left wing in the country. What would've happened had Howlett not suffered his injury? Give Mcgrath half a dozen starts and I'm sure he'll show himslef to be the 2nd best loosehead in the country.

Forwards and backs are entirely different, especially when it comes to scrummaging. My feeling is they need to be eased into it. You can drop a 19 year old into a test match in the backline and he may or may not light the world on fire ala BOD, but you rarely get that with props. Healy being the exception to the rule, although he had to do a lot of hard graft to get where he's at now.

He'll get his time. When you're in the top 3 in a position for a team like Leinster you're bound to get a few starts with injuries, internationals and rotation.

bamboozle · 16-11-2012 9:58am

huge credit is due to the Leinster coaches for the way they have managed and developed the props coming through the academy. We're at the stage where one of my favourite Leinster players and probably the most underrated HVDM can be let go at the end of the season as McGrath will be ready to step up. I havent seen Tracey but O'Connell, Moore & Furlong look the real deal to me, O'Connell has played 3 seasons at AIL level now, i reckon next season unless he's considered 2nd choice or going to get a fair bit of Rabo time he should be loaned to Connacht/Munster or over to England for the season to get consistent higher level experience.

Moore & Furlong can be given next season at (surprisingly strong) AIL level to further develop in a low key environment but they are serious players in the making.

regarding talk of Royce Burke Flynn above, he's been excellent for Clontarf, built like a 6, very fast and can prop both sides, he's a far far better player than Archer, Ryan, Cotter from what i've seen of them.

Leinster & Irish rugby is in safe hands from a scrummaging perspective...its 2nd row's i'd be more worried about...

jamiedav2011 · 16-11-2012 10:07am

To be honest, I think for the good of McGrath we should let VDM go next year.
It's a bit of a risk, but the reward for that is an all IQ propping quartet, and I think McGrath has earned it any time I've seen him play.

Guy is built like an absolute tank and as far as I've seen he's never been caught badly in scrummaging like Healy was back in the day (yet anyway!).

Having said that, keeping VDM for one more year is an option, as it looks like we'll have quite a few NIQ spaces next year, with Isa being our only contracted NIQ so far.

I also think Goodman might come on to be a player we could get a fair bit from. Wonder how he'd feel about another year here? One thing I do feel we lack when Sexton is away is game control, and perhaps Goodman can give us that at 12.

Some really interesting times ahead in our front row though, as you can be sure Moore and Hagan won't be happy at being behind Bent.

I heard Hagan did really well yesterday too?

Overall, quite happy with the result tbh, given the respective sides.

jamiedav2011 · 16-11-2012 10:11am

Foxtrol wrote: »

Ross may be winding down soon, Bent looks to be a short term HvM or (Berne/Berquist at outhalf) sort of signing, Hagan apart from recent cameos hasnt been great so I wouldnt worry too much if I was Moore or Furlong. They both seem happy to put their down and earn the shirt and hopefully wont do Felix Jones on it.

Does he?! Anything but I would have thought.

irishbucsfan · 16-11-2012 10:12am

.ak wrote: »

Forwards and backs are entirely different, especially when it comes to scrummaging. My feeling is they need to be eased into it. You can drop a 19 year old into a test match in the backline and he may or may not light the world on fire ala BOD, but you rarely get that with props. Healy being the exception to the rule, although he had to do a lot of hard graft to get where he's at now.

He'll get his time. When you're in the top 3 in a position for a team like Leinster you're bound to get a few starts with injuries, internationals and rotation.

This is why people are saying O'Connell should be our 3rd choice next season. Up to this season McGrath has been 3rd choice for 2 seasons (this is his 3rd) and only had to start 4 games, and when you consider only 1 of those was in the first season you could possibly conclude those starts were elective. I think the role of 3rd choice is relatively sheltered, especially when you have a guy like Bent (used to be Stan Wright when McGrath first assumed the role) who can cover both sides.

16-11-2012 10:12am

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Does he?! Anything but I would have thought.

+ 1 million the second he got his first cap.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 16-11-2012 10:25am

The only thing I would be concerned about is McGrath getting called up internationally.

I don't think there is much difference between McGrath Kilcoyne Buckley and McAlister in terms of ability so if McGrath is getting regular games he could well be called up

If that happens Leinster could supply all four props to the Irish set up.

But at the end of the day the provinces are here to support the national side so its a risk that would have to be taken imo.

16-11-2012 10:27am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The only thing I would be concerned about is McGrath getting called up internationally.

I don't think there is much difference between McGrath Kilcoyne Buckley and McAlister in terms of ability so if McGrath is getting regular games he could well be called up

If that happens Leinster could supply all four props to the Irish set up.

But at the end of the day the provinces are here to support the national side so its a risk that would have to be taken imo.

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

CIARAN_BOYLE · 16-11-2012 10:31am

Deleted User wrote: »

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

We're talking about after that guys contract expires.

irishbucsfan · 16-11-2012 10:35am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

The only thing I would be concerned about is McGrath getting called up internationally.

I don't think there is much difference between McGrath Kilcoyne Buckley and McAlister in terms of ability so if McGrath is getting regular games he could well be called up

If that happens Leinster could supply all four props to the Irish set up.

But at the end of the day the provinces are here to support the national side so its a risk that would have to be taken imo.

I think the main difference is those guys are all starting so would supposedly be the better options, although Cronin is a good example where that isn't the case.

I think it is a genuine concern. Especially for 14/15 by which stage McGrath could be well established as too good to be ignored. I think though that if McGrath is that good to be demanding an international place over starters we might have to let him move on to another province to start for his own sake.

16-11-2012 10:36am

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

We're talking about after that guys contract expires.

ah I know, just couldn't miss a genuine opportunity.

I actually think that you're probably right. But we won't really be able to do anything apart from getting O'Connell gametime at LH and Hagan will need to become the monster we need.

If we are supplying players and their replacements to the National squad, then we are doing our job and the other provinces would need to catch up! I think that there's some Ulster and Connacht lads that are looking forward to a bit of a changing of the guard, both in management and players in the National Setup though.

A decent coach won't be flogging players, so if we are supplying starters and replacements, it won't be for every game. We'll have to hope that the coaches realise that their selections aren't just for that particular game, that it might make more sense to have Denis Buckley on the bench for Ireland, leaving McGrath to play a Pro12 game vs Ospreys etc.

Hopefully the new guy won't be as blind as the present.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

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