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Zero Grazing

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Comments

  • #52
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    jersey101 wrote: »
    The idea of zero grazing is to not damage the grass is it not?

    Nope the idea of zero grazing is to seperate the poor fool who gets invoved in it from as much of his money as possible, but they're real bastards about it they won't actually break you, they'll leave you just enough to keep going. Zero grazing ain't new lads, those zero grazers are just a reinvention of the wheel.

    There was a farm from somewhere in the north featured on the comic a few months back which was zero grazing full time. They had a certain model of zero grazer ( the name escapes me). A guy I was friendly with worked for the inventor/developer of that particular machine back in the day. They were all over the NW of england then but they said on the comic that the machine is no longer in production, that the one on that farm in northern ireland was one of the last working. What does that tell you? from development to production to the last being in use in less than 20 years. For my money zero grazing is at best a very marginal operation.


  • #53
    loveta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭loveta


    Horses for courses i suppose alot of accurate points made in previous posts but i feel they have there place and would not like to be without esp in the shoulders of the year or bad weather.I have more land out lying than i actually have on the main block and the largest parcel is only 25ac so in these cases its brillant at getting the green stuff into them,


  • #54
    st1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    loveta wrote: »
    Horses for courses i suppose alot of accurate points made in previous posts but i feel they have there place and would not like to be without esp in the shoulders of the year or bad weather.I have more land out lying than i actually have on the main block and the largest parcel is only 25ac so in these cases its brillant at getting the green stuff into them,

    Have to agree. I have 60% in one block that we own. And the rented land which is reasonable rent and been all 10yrs plus rented is between 1 and 3 miles away. Currently use rented land for silage and a bit of tillage. Have own large wagon and front mower. If I expand cow numbers to the max I can see a lot of benefits in using the rented land on shoulders or crap weather. With very small extra cost. Have enough cubicles slurry storage and machinery so surely it would be a benefit.
    I used to rent land that I could graze but it ended up cows walked 2km from furthest point to parlour each way. And I can tell you that was not labour free and cows hooves gave a lot of trouble.

    Think we need to have an open mind on these things. Not many farms will be able to graze large cow numbers relative to there acreage. I would not want to zg every day but it might be a useful tool to have. And I reckon most who actually zg dont have a 30k machine. I see lads using old single or double chops.


  • #55
    yellow50HX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,828 ✭✭✭yellow50HX


    st1979 wrote: »
    Have to agree. I have 60% in one block that we own. And the rented land which is reasonable rent and been all 10yrs plus rented is between 1 and 3 miles away. Currently use rented land for silage and a bit of tillage. Have own large wagon and front mower. If I expand cow numbers to the max I can see a lot of benefits in using the rented land on shoulders or crap weather. With very small extra cost. Have enough cubicles slurry storage and machinery so surely it would be a benefit.
    I used to rent land that I could graze but it ended up cows walked 2km from furthest point to parlour each way. And I can tell you that was not labour free and cows hooves gave a lot of trouble.

    Think we need to have an open mind on these things. Not many farms will be able to graze large cow numbers relative to there acreage. I would not want to zg every day but it might be a useful tool to have. And I reckon most who actually zg dont have a 30k machine. I see lads using old single or double chops.

    Think your spot on there. I don't think 100% ZG is practical in Ireland but it defo has a place for lads that want to expand number higher then the home place can take. Like you say it's a lot easier to drive a tractor and machine a mile of 2 up the road once a day then walk 150 cows over and back twice a day. If your looking to rent a place a mile away over 5 years and it doesn't have roadways or water or esb then not only do you have the issues of walking cows a long distance but you draw in water, set up drinking trough put in solar fencing and put up wires. Other wise it only be useful for silage and rearing calves and dry animals.


  • #56
    st1979
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭st1979


    yellow50HX wrote: »
    Think your spot on there. I don't think 100% ZG is practical in Ireland but it defo has a place for lads that want to expand number higher then the home place can take. Like you say it's a lot easier to drive a tractor and machine a mile of 2 up the road once a day then walk 150 cows over and back twice a day. If your looking to rent a place a mile away over 5 years and it doesn't have roadways or water or esb then not only do you have the issues of walking cows a long distance but you draw in water, set up drinking trough put in solar fencing and put up wires. Other wise it only be useful for silage and rearing calves and dry animals.

    When the cows were coming from 2km away they done everything possible to stay in the field unless they were being fed in parlour. Used to take 1 hr to get in 30 mins to put out so 3 hrs a day messing around


  • #57
    freedominacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭freedominacup


    st1979 wrote: »
    When the cows were coming from 2km away they done everything possible to stay in the field unless they were being fed in parlour. Used to take 1 hr to get in 30 mins to put out so 3 hrs a day messing around

    The debate seems to be about ZG against walking cows long distances often on public roads, how does it stack up when measured against other cropping? Delaval posted recently that he reckons he is heading for 12tDM/ha of grass utilised which is definitely impressive but it equates in DM yield to a reasonable crop of wholecrop wheat. If you were achieveing de's utilisation on ZG how does it stack up against wholecrop/maize/beet?

    Cows can easily get through a 10kg/DM buffer in an hour before/after milking morning and evening assuming around 3-4kg/DM from concentrates in mix. Once you get above 10kgs of buffer DM it starts to make more sense for them to be housed at night esp in poor weather.


  • #58
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    freedominacup wrote: »
    The debate seems to be about ZG against walking cows long distances often on public roads, how does it stack up when measured against other cropping? Delaval posted recently that he reckons he is heading for 12tDM/ha of grass utilised which is definitely impressive but it equates in DM yield to a reasonable crop of wholecrop wheat. If you were achieveing de's utilisation on ZG how does it stack up against wholecrop/maize/beet?

    Cows can easily get through a 10kg/DM buffer in an hour before/after milking morning and evening assuming around 3-4kg/DM from concentrates in mix. Once you get above 10kgs of buffer DM it starts to make more sense for them to be housed at night esp in poor weather.
    I have a friend in Holland who is total ZG for the summer. The best he can do is 15 tonne DM/ha


  • #59
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    delaval wrote: »
    I have a friend in Holland who is total ZG for the summer. The best he can do is 15 tonne DM/ha

    that pretty poor isnt it. Have you any idea of what are the dutch figures for grass growth in a season. Considering land is costing over 20k in holland this has a major bearing. I presume a utilisation figure is up around 100% and a clean cut would grow an extra 25% more grass. So take delaval's figure of 12t ha utilised grass @ 90% utilisation (I wont say yeah or nah about that figure) and will call it the Irish figure

    so 12 / 0.9 = 13.5~ total grass grow in Ireland

    Extra growth using zero grazing 25% so

    13.5t/ha * 125% = 16.875t/ha (total zero grazed tons)

    16.875/12 = 1.40 or a zero grazer will be getting 40% more grass per ha into their cows.

    is the 25% extra grass growing in a season a fair figure for Irish conditions?



    Come on lads its a Sunday afternoon we have to prove that zero grazing full time is the way forward:)


  • #60
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    freedominacup wrote: »
    The debate seems to be about ZG against walking cows long distances often on public roads, how does it stack up when measured against other cropping? Delaval posted recently that he reckons he is heading for 12tDM/ha of grass utilised which is definitely impressive but it equates in DM yield to a reasonable crop of wholecrop wheat. If you were achieveing de's utilisation on ZG how does it stack up against wholecrop/maize/beet?

    Energy grown per acre is the important figure and not Tons per acre


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  • #61
    delaval
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭delaval


    bob charles wrote: »
    Energy grown per acre is the important figure and not Tons per acre
    I must grow a few hundred acres of sugar beet next year. I'd say my covers ill be low in May and June:):)


  • #62
    TEAT SQUEEZER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭TEAT SQUEEZER


    freedominacup wrote: »
    The debate seems to be about ZG against walking cows long distances often on public roads, how does it stack up when measured against other cropping? Delaval posted recently that he reckons he is heading for 12tDM/ha of grass utilised which is definitely impressive but it equates in DM yield to a reasonable crop of wholecrop wheat. If you were achieveing de's utilisation on ZG how does it stack up against wholecrop/maize/beet?

    Cows can easily get through a 10kg/DM buffer in an hour before/after milking morning and evening assuming around 3-4kg/DM from concentrates in mix. Once you get above 10kgs of buffer DM it starts to make more sense for them to be housed at night esp in poor weather.
    bob charles wrote: »
    that pretty poor isnt it. Have you any idea of what are the dutch figures for grass growth in a season. Considering land is costing over 20k in holland this has a major bearing. I presume a utilisation figure is up around 100% and a clean cut would grow an extra 25% more grass. So take delaval's figure of 12t ha utilised grass @ 90% utilisation (I wont say yeah or nah about that figure) and will call it the Irish figure

    so 12 / 0.9 = 13.5~ total grass grow in Ireland

    Extra growth using zero grazing 25% so

    13.5t/ha * 125% = 16.875t/ha (total zero grazed tons)

    16.875/12 = 1.40 or a zero grazer will be getting 40% more grass per ha into their cows.

    is the 25% extra grass growing in a season a fair figure for Irish conditions?



    Come on lads its a Sunday afternoon we have to prove that zero grazing full time is the way forward:)
    bob charles wrote: »
    Energy grown per acre is the important figure and not Tons per acre...

    perhaps freedoms question is answered by bob... is it not fair to say the type of zero grazed grass that should be offered to stock is on a par with any energy crop and dont forget the protein %age in grass


  • #63
    TEAT SQUEEZER
    Closed Accounts Posts: 516 ✭✭✭TEAT SQUEEZER


    the use of zero g as a buffer feeding option at the shoulders etc is where i`d see the majority of benefits with the system.. machinery sharing might improve viabilitymore...

    buffering at the shoulders on most farms is done in its most expensive form ie; milled conc or with poor performing forage ie, silage so again food for thought...


  • #64
    bob charles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    delaval wrote: »
    I must grow a few hundred acres of sugar beet next year. I'd say my covers ill be low in May and June:):)

    My cattle tried to grazing method for sugar beet last year in July, they got a right kick in the arse when there was no sugar beet to put in front of their noses come winter time.


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