Your Motorhome / Conversion, VRT and You.

Aidan_M_M · 29-07-2011 12:14am

I'll tell you an interesting one about VRT.... We registered 2 identical Motorhomes this year , layout , make , running gear , colour , absolutetly 100% identical apart from one was in January , and the other a few months later . Logically you'd assume the VRT would be if not identical , within 100 euro?
Ah..no . IIRC there was 1200-1400 of a difference! Like , WTF? And as per usual , they couldn't explain why the difference to us.

Buford T Justice · 29-07-2011 1:30am

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

I'll tell you an interesting one about VRT.... We registered 2 identical Motorhomes this year , layout , make , running gear , colour , absolutetly 100% identical apart from one was in January , and the other a few months later . Logically you'd assume the VRT would be if not identical , within 100 euro?
Ah..no . IIRC there was 1200-1400 of a difference! Like , WTF? And as per usual , they couldn't explain why the difference to us.

Of course not, that would involve someone being held accountable for what they do in the revenue office. Thankfully, you would have some evidence for an appeal, provided the second one was more expensive than the first one.

Aidan_M_M · 29-07-2011 12:28pm

they were both brand new....

Buford T Justice · 29-07-2011 6:04pm

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

they were both brand new....

Yes, but if the second MH was more expensive in VRT, then you could appeal it on the basis of the exact same one being charged a lesser vrt rate a month or three previous.

Joemc · 25-08-2011 1:06pm

Thanks Buford great info..

Does anybody know where I can get this inspection done in Dublin..I went to M50 truck and Van Centre and they told me that they could not do this test and put me in touch with an assessor but they need to arrange ramps at a garage..It is beggining to look expensive..

Anybody got this done in Dublin area..

Thanks a mill..

Joe

philahern · 25-08-2011 1:54pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

EU Bodywork: For Original, it would be BB (Van Lorry) and for Converted it will be SA

Sorry I posted another thread about this but should have just asked here but what I asked in a new thread there is:

"I am looking at getting a small van to convert to a camper and having gone through a lot of threads here I can see that I can now convert a van with head height less than 1.8m (something like a nissan vanette) as it seems like it would be of type N1 and I would declare it as type M1. What I don't understand is the SA body type. Looking at the vehicle conversion declaration form it would seem that you would be converting from type BB (Van Lorry) to type AF (multi purpose vehicle in category M1) There is no mention of what type SA is or am I getting it all wrong?"

Buford T Justice · 25-08-2011 7:56pm

philahern wrote: »

Sorry I posted another thread about this but should have just asked here but what I asked in a new thread there is:

"I am looking at getting a small van to convert to a camper and having gone through a lot of threads here I can see that I can now convert a van with head height less than 1.8m (something like a nissan vanette) as it seems like it would be of type N1 and I would declare it as type M1. What I don't understand is the SA body type. Looking at the vehicle conversion declaration form it would seem that you would be converting from type BB (Van Lorry) to type AF (multi purpose vehicle in category M1) There is no mention of what type SA is or am I getting it all wrong?"

No, as I said in my post about it for a motor home, the EU bodyworks must be SA. I don't know what SA means, and they don't supply that info either. Its just one of those things that is what it is I guess.

philahern · 25-08-2011 8:11pm

Buford T Justice wrote: »

No, as I said in my post about it for a motor home, the EU bodyworks must be SA. I don't know what SA means, and they don't supply that info either. Its just one of those things that is what it is I guess.

Thanks for that. I have a motor journalist friend who's looking into it for me so will report back what it means. Do you think a Nissan Vanette could pass as a camper then?

Buford T Justice · 26-08-2011 2:01am

philahern wrote: »

Thanks for that. I have a motor journalist friend who's looking into it for me so will report back what it means. Do you think a Nissan Vanette could pass as a camper then?

I see no reason why not, since the height requirement is no longer an issue. However, be sure that you pass the other requirements for a motorhome. i.e. cooking facilities of no less than 2 rings, plus a seating area, plus fixed sleeping acommodation (which may be part of the seating area once converted)

niloc1951 · 26-08-2011 11:19am

VRT = % of OMSP, right

It has been reported that those charged with assessing the VRT on a motor caravan refer to listings where motor caravans are offered for sale to enable them to establish the OMSP.

IMHO such a resource only indicates a sellers own opinion of what his/her treasure is worth and more often than not the ACTUAL price the vehicle is sold for will be substantially less.

The Revenue or their agents should be working from a compilation of recorded SELLING prices to accurately and fairly assess the VRT, which as I said above is a percentage of the Open Market SELLING Price.

If challenged, the current practice of basing the tax on a fictional value (Open Market ASKING Price) would surely be overturned by the courts. It can not be acceptable that any administration can demand a tax based other than on verified information of the sum or value of the asset to be taxed.

No other industry would take such an unjust situation lying down, so come on Aiden_M_M et al, how PH himself and others in the industry joining together, putting a few Euro in the kitty and consulting a good tax lawyer.

hi5 · 31-08-2011 9:59pm

I have a 1969 vintage Commer van,original Irish reg which I had intented converting to a camper,would the VRT be based on the OMSP after the conversion or would it be the standard €200 charged for vintage vehicles?

Can I keep the €48 road tax as its still vintage on its original chassis?

Does it need a DOE test as most CoCos claim vintage vehicles do not (http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/MotorTax/VehicleTesting/
(see the last paragraph)

I suppose what I'm asking is,does it lose its classification as a vintage vehicle and become re-classified as a camper van?

Buford T Justice · 01-09-2011 11:56am

hi5 wrote: »

I have a 1969 vintage Commer van,original Irish reg which I had intented converting to a camper,would the VRT be based on the OMSP after the conversion or would it be the standard €200 charged for vintage vehicles?

Can I keep the €48 road tax as its still vintage on its original chassis?

Does it need a DOE test as most CoCos claim vintage vehicles do not (http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/MotorTax/VehicleTesting/
(see the last paragraph)

I suppose what I'm asking is,does it lose its classification as a vintage vehicle and become re-classified as a camper van?

I believe it does yes...... but I stand to be corrected.

santryman2 · 02-09-2011 12:25pm

I'm looking at buying a 04 Mercedes Vito 2.2CDi (or similar) for approximately Eur2,500 (max) and spending Eur1k converting it into a camper. Can anyone advise me on the process / things to watch out for:-

- Likely VRT?
- Will re-classifying be a problem given internal height <1.8m (Vito clearance is 1.5m)?
- Insurance cost (not my primary vehicle).
- Any other pitfalls?

THanks in advance

philahern · 02-09-2011 12:57pm

santryman2 wrote: »

I'm looking at buying a 04 Mercedes Vito 2.2CDi (or similar) for approximately Eur2,500 (max) and spending Eur1k converting it into a camper. Can anyone advise me on the process / things to watch out for:-

- Likely VRT?
- Will re-classifying be a problem given internal height <1.8m (Vito clearance is 1.5m)?
- Insurance cost (not my primary vehicle).
- Any other pitfalls?

THanks in advance

I was thinking of doing the same but after doing all the calculations I have given up on the idea. I figured that it would take about 5000-7000 based on on a vehicle of 1600. You can see the rough budget here http://tiny.cc/j4ylo Basically I couldn't find anyone to insure it with a head height of less than 1.8m. The only place I could find who would insure it is the motorcaravan club but they (rightly) require the conversion to be of a high standard. Also I think the vrt figure was very low in that budget from what I gather it could be as much as 1500 not sure though.

santryman2 · 02-09-2011 1:13pm

Thanks Phil - how have worked out your VRT of Eur800? And why do you think it's higher?

Also, I was planning to follow a layout template similar to attached, which would be a high enough standard. Admittedely, my estimate definitely on low side but reckon it oculd be done for 1500

http://cgi.ebay.ie/Mercedes-Vito-camper-surf-bus-day-van-Not-VW-T4-T5-/150613186041

philahern · 02-09-2011 2:05pm

That's exactly the layout I was gonna go for too. You'd be surprised, it all adds up. With the VRT as far as I can gather (open to correction on this) it is 13.5% of the open market selling price of the finished camper. The open market selling price is taken from places like buy and sell, donedeal and carzone.ie, newspapers etc. The problem is a '04 Vito converted well can be listed for sale for up to 8000+. It might not sell for that price but that's what they seem to be listed as.

santryman2 · 03-09-2011 5:16pm

Does anyone know if VRT is applicable on a Mercedes Sprinter camper conversion given that it is >3000kgs?

stapeler · 04-09-2011 10:56pm

santryman2 wrote: »

Does anyone know if VRT is applicable on a Mercedes Sprinter camper conversion given that it is >3000kgs?

I guess so since the rules changed last January. The 3000kgs rule is out the window and now 13.5% of OMSP.

Buford T Justice · 04-09-2011 11:45pm

santryman2 wrote: »

Does anyone know if VRT is applicable on a Mercedes Sprinter camper conversion given that it is >3000kgs?

As above, the answer to that is yes!

Alanv420 · 18-09-2011 9:21pm

Great tread. I think I missed where and how you apply for a reduction in vrt.

samdeman · 19-09-2011 1:13pm

is vrt payable on ambulance conversion?

Buford T Justice · 22-09-2011 5:10pm

samdeman wrote: »

is vrt payable on ambulance conversion?

Yes, its applicable on any re-classification

santryman2 · 23-09-2011 10:28am

Folks I am looking to use a Vito (108/109) as a part-time 2 berth camper, ie attend triathlon races etc.

I am obviously aware of the VRT issue but is it possible to avoid camper re-classification by keeping the van as commercial (i.e. Tax Eur288 and Insurance Eur350ish).

Buford T Justice · 23-09-2011 3:22pm

IF you want to have the hassle of getting a van taxed, its up to yourself really.

spaceHopper · 23-09-2011 4:09pm

santryman2 wrote: »

as a part-time 2 berth camper

If you mean, something you can take out so the van can be used for work then that isn't allowed it has to be a full time conversion.

Fright · 20-10-2011 12:47am

Beford, can you recommend a garage from the NSAI list? I've contacted 2 of them and none of them do it. Both directed me to assessors who don't want the job and said that if they do it will cost €250 + VAT with no guarantee.
I just keep going round in circles

Buford T Justice · 20-10-2011 1:20am

Fright wrote: »

Beford, can you recommend a garage from the NSAI list? I've contacted 2 of them and none of them do it. Both directed me to assessors who don't want the job and said that if they do it will cost €250 + VAT with no guarantee.
I just keep going round in circles

Do you mean to have the conversion declared for revenue?

Cawleys Garage in Sligo will do it. Contact Colette in the VTN office and book it in. Can't say how much they charge for it, but i think its around the €100 mark. Could be wrong though, but they will definitely do it for you.

Its basically just a case of dotting a few I's and crossing a few T's

Fright · 20-10-2011 2:19am

Yeah sorry Buford, forgot to say it was the "SQI" test. It's a long way from Wexford, but if they'll do it so be it.
Its sad to say that one garage will do it and the others won't.
Both garages I contacted said that they haven't got the equipment to check the gas and electrics. I told them that they don't have to test them. Just look inside the van and state that its not a van any more and that it has the equipment stated in the regulations, bed, cooker etc.
Still refused.......

Buford T Justice · 20-10-2011 9:31am

Fright wrote: »

Yeah sorry Buford, forgot to say it was the "SQI" test. It's a long way from Wexford, but if they'll do it so be it.
Its sad to say that one garage will do it and the others won't.
Both garages I contacted said that they haven't got the equipment to check the gas and electrics. I told them that they don't have to test them. Just look inside the van and state that its not a van any more and that it has the equipment stated in the regulations, bed, cooker etc.
Still refused.......

That's because they haven't a clue what they're talking about. Cawleys wouldn't do the engineers report for me, I had to get that done somewhere else. Might I suggest phoning around and checking if you can get it done locally before you head off. If you're not having any luck then give quinnfix a buzz in Sligo (Garage must be simi registered). They'll do it for you, and you could nearly get everything finished in the one day or so. Provided you didn't need to bring the van back for a second time for the engineers report if you get me.

Fright · 20-10-2011 10:34am

Cheers for that man. Can you tell me one more thing? When I phone or call to any of the NSAI or SIMI reg garages, what am I actually asking them to check?
As I said, the 3 places I contacted (as suggested by the VRO in rosslare to me personally) said that they didnt do it or said they can't check gas & electricty etc.

Your Motorhome / Conversion, VRT and You.

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