Taking shop to Small Claims Court for refusing to honour gift voucher

maglite · 06-04-2010 7:45pm

At a simplist level you buy a peice of paper that has the promise of the shop keeper to trade goods for that ammount at a later date, If no end date is specified it would be an open ended contract.

I suppose it is more akin to Note Payable than promisary note but it was more the idea i was getting across. But we are going very technical and i'm rusty on the old accounting and Commerce law

ejmaztec · 06-04-2010 10:16pm

maglite wrote: »

At a simplist level you buy a peice of paper that has the promise of the shop keeper to trade goods for that ammount at a later date, If no end date is specified it would be an open ended contract.

I suppose it is more akin to Note Payable than promisary note but it was more the idea i was getting across. But we are going very technical and i'm rusty on the old accounting and Commerce law

I'm also rusty, but not in accounting:D

I had this idea in my head from days of yore, that a promissory note was purely for "money", and not goods.

I think I might blow off the cobwebs from my lawbooks and reminisce.:pac:

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-04-2010 8:39am

maglite wrote: »

OP you entered into a contract whereby you purchased a promissory note from the shop where you can redeem goods up to and including its value.

Actually, the OP did not enter into any contract. The person who bought the Gift Voucher did. In law the contract was between the vendor and the purchaser not the OP.

JimsAlterEgo · 07-04-2010 8:39am

mambo wrote: »

15e, plus possibly time off work to attend the court (if the company chooses to contest it). But worth doing for the principle of the thing?

do you not get the fee back also?

maglite · 07-04-2010 9:23am

Alfredo Gorgeous Wildfire wrote: »

Actually, the OP did not enter into any contract. The person who bought the Gift Voucher did. In law the contract was between the vendor and the purchaser not the OP.

Alright, OP the purchaser of the voucher entered into a contract with the shop to BLAH BLAH BLAH, this voucher was then with the prior knowledge of both parties transfer to you for the completion of the contract.

Its akin to the bank now owning the house i once lived in.... the deeds have changed hands....

ejmaztec, if you get an answer do share I would be interested.

AlwaysAmber · 07-04-2010 10:04am

We had a similar situation in a company I used to run a couple of years back.

Long story made short - The voucher was 7 years old, we refused to accept it (mainly because the holder was an arrogant SOB) and got taken to the small claim courts and the claim was dismissed.
I can't remember the exact reason for dismissal, but we had argued that it was unreasonable for us to keep records of the transaction for 7 years in order to verify the voucher.

For those people saying that companies don't fight small claims court cases, you are very wrong. No person or company likes been taken to court and principle works both ways.

Red Alert · 07-04-2010 10:18am

Would a shop not apply principles of good customer service, like Fergal Quinn talks about in Crowning The Customer? This means that they're likely to ensure that by not taking the voucher:

a) The customer never comes back
b) The customer tells all their friends about the experience
c) Their friends don't go there

They've essentially cost themselves business. I for one will never do business with a trader who behaves in a fashion like that, even if they're legally on the right side of the line.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-04-2010 10:31am

maglite wrote: »

:Alright, OP the purchaser of the voucher entered into a contract with the shop to BLAH BLAH BLAH, this voucher was then with the prior knowledge of both parties transfer to you for the completion of the contract...

You are really making the law up as you go along, aren't you? Under Irish Law the voucher contract is only between the purchaser and the vendor. It is not taken (believe it or not) as transferable. Technically, the purchaser should pursue any claim on the voucher.

Anyway, 6 years after the fact and €30. The OP is a chancer!

ejmaztec · 07-04-2010 11:24am

First off, business records are supposed to be kept for 6 years, which is the time specified by the Revenue Commissioners, though how this relates to the treatment of Gift Vouchers is questionable.

One thing that I remember about law studies is that the expression "reasonable time" gets thrown round a lot, meaning that, even though someone may be in the right, the length of time that they waited before putting in a claim cancels any right that they once had. What is a "reasonable time" is up to the judge, registrar etc.

This could have been the reason why AlwaysAmber's old customer went away sobbing from the Small Claims Court.

*****************************

The National Consumer Agency even has a list on their website of various shops etc, and specifies the expiry dates, if any, of gift vouchers.

Here's a bit from:http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Hot_Topics/Campaigns/Gift Vouchers/

"Expiry dates

Expiry dates also vary widely. Some shops give you six months to redeem your voucher, so a gift token you received at Christmas and left in the bottom drawer will be no use by the following July.
Other shops have far more flexible "no expiry" vouchers or may be willing to extend the expiry date if requested. But remember that just because a voucher doesn't actually state an expiry date, this doesn't mean that the shop operates an open ended expiry policy.
If a shop refuses to honour a voucher that doesn't specify an expiry date, you have the option to refer the matter to the Small Claims Court."

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-04-2010 12:04pm

You have hit the nail on the head. In law "reasonable time" is quite discretionary but judges at Small Claims are usually equitable in their rulings. 6 years for a voucher from a chain store, I feel, will be thrown out as unreasonable as the customer had ample opportunities and goods available to purchase from the store during that period. Any claim of mislaying the voucher for 6 years would be deemed the claimants own fault. Reasonable Time is the key. 6 years is not reasonable in anyones language in this case.

slave1 · 07-04-2010 12:33pm

do you not get the fee back also?

According to the small claims procedure you are only entitled to the cost of the good so the €15 fee is gone.
I took a small claim and the third party wrote out to me straight away and offered the full cost of good which is the max the small claims cover. However I was so pissed off with the hassle they gave me I refused their offer and looked for the cost (€6) of my registered letter to them (which they never answered) the cost of the small claim (€15) and "grief" money.
They replied saying I was only entitled to the cost of the good, I said fine, see you in court.
They paid everything I asked for to avoid the court appearance.

If you don't ask, you won't receive.

borderlinemeath · 07-04-2010 1:04pm

6 years is too long a reasonable time to wait to use a voucher in my opinion.
The amount of the voucher is insignificant enough that it was forgotton about ie if the voucher was for €200 I doubt very much the OP would have left it for 6 years.
So if it did reach the SCC (which I doubt) a reasonable judge would view it as a petty claim by the consumer and dismiss it.

Dublindude69 · 07-04-2010 2:51pm

Red Alert wrote: »

Would a shop not apply principles of good customer service, like Fergal Quinn talks about in Crowning The Customer? This means that they're likely to ensure that by not taking the voucher:

a) The customer never comes back
b) The customer tells all their friends about the experience
c) Their friends don't go there

They've essentially cost themselves business. I for one will never do business with a trader who behaves in a fashion like that, even if they're legally on the right side of the line.

There are some customers to may not want to come back to your store.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-04-2010 3:13pm

Red Alert wrote: »

Would a shop not apply principles of good customer service, like Fergal Quinn talks about in Crowning The Customer? This means that they're likely to ensure that by not taking the voucher:

a) The customer never comes back
b) The customer tells all their friends about the experience
c) Their friends don't go there

They've essentially cost themselves business. I for one will never do business with a trader who behaves in a fashion like that, even if they're legally on the right side of the line.

Would you really want a customer like this back. Cashing-in vouchers only every 6 years?

eightyfish · 07-04-2010 3:29pm

Red Alert wrote: »

They've essentially cost themselves business.

I disagree with the previous two posts. I think the shop should take the voucher. In terms of good customer service, and for the sake of €30, it's best to please the customer rather than, as you say, ensuring they will never come back and tell all their friends.

The point is, though, that they are not obliged to - and anyone who keeps a voucher in a drawer for 6 years is not entitled to have it accepted.

ejmaztec · 07-04-2010 4:20pm

eightyfish wrote: »

I disagree with the previous two posts. I think the shop should take the voucher. In terms of good customer service, and for the sake of €30, it's best to please the customer rather than, as you say, ensuring they will never come back and tell all their friends.

In a hypothetical situation, the trader might not be certain that it's genuine, and having shreaded his 6+ years records, won't be able to track the transaction. This could be another reason for a trader's reluctance to accept it.

Welease · 07-04-2010 4:44pm

ejmaztec wrote: »

In a hypothetical situation, the trader might not be certain that it's genuine, and having shreaded his 6+ years records, won't be able to track the transaction. This could be another reason for a trader's reluctance to accept it.

Or maybe he's just not that bothered about someone who hasn't shopped there in over 6 years.

ejmaztec · 07-04-2010 5:05pm

Welease wrote: »

Or maybe he's just not that bothered about someone who hasn't shopped there in over 6 years.

I think we've already had that one:P, but the person who bought the voucher my be a regular customer who, once he forgives the recipient of his generous gift for waiting 6 years, takes his business elsewhere after beating a refund out of the shop manager.:eek:

borderlinemeath · 07-04-2010 5:08pm

Alfredo Gorgeous Wildfire wrote: »

Would you really want a customer like this back. Cashing-in vouchers only every 6 years?

Exactly, some "customers" aren't worth the hassle!
The same said customers are the type that return goods way outside the store policy and expect "goodwill" to be shown to them.

slave1 · 07-04-2010 5:56pm

Who is the "respondant" in this case? Do I just enter the name of the company, or do I need the name of a specific person at the company?

Just noticed this, you have to use the respondant company's registered address or else your small claim will be thrown out, check the name on www.cro.ie.

Taking shop to Small Claims Court for refusing to honour gift voucher

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