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Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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Comments

  • #7252
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    The only thing I'd have about Hurley at 15 is that he is not great under the high ball. If I were the opposing out half I'd be dropping garryowens on him all day.


  • #7253
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I can't see someone that orange fitting into the Sportsground.

    He'd do a great job for them, if he could be bothered.


  • #7254
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    The only thing I'd have about Hurley at 15 is that he is not great under the high ball. If I were the opposing out half I'd be dropping garryowens on him all day.

    He used to be really awful, but he's improved a good bit. He'll never be Kearney. Hurley can be very hot and cold, though. When he's off form it's grim viewing.

    That being said, Jones has only been ok since he came back, I don't think he's done enough to drop Hurley for him.


  • #7255
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    He's gotten better yeah but it's a weak point of his, especially at 15.

    If Ryan and POC are fit I'd say Ryan will start in the back row.


  • #7256
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    He'd do a great job for them, if he could be bothered.

    I was the only ripping the piss there, yeah he would. Too many ifs though!


  • #7257
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    He's gotten better yeah but it's a weak point of his, especially at 15.

    If Ryan and POC are fit I'd say Ryan will start in the back row.

    I don't see that we've any choice. We need to start Wian, Varley, Botha, POC, DOC, Ryan, POM, Coughlan. I'd have Holland and TOD as the subs.

    Tbh, a more interesting pack is who we play for the A side on friday.

    It'll probably be something like Kilcoyne, Henry, Ryan, Hayes?, Donnellan?, DOCv2.0, BOH, Butler. That being said, it could be any number of players, we need a few guys like Kilcoyne to step up, imo.


  • #7258
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I don't see that we've any choice. We need to start Wian, Varley, Botha, POC, DOC, Ryan, POM, Coughlan. I'd have Holland and TOD as the subs.

    Tbh, a more interesting pack is who we play for the A side on friday.

    It'll probably be something like Kilcoyne, Henry, Ryan, Hayes?, Donnellan?, DOCv2.0, BOH, Butler. That being said, it could be any number of players, we need a few guys like Kilcoyne to step up, imo.


    No faith in DOC2 for the starting team? I think the choice between him and DOC is very close if it comes down to it. He was the player that impressed me most against Leinster.

    And if Wallace doesn't make the HC team, he'll probably be ahead of BOH for the A game.


  • #7259
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    No faith in DOC2 for the starting team? I think the choice between him and DOC is very close if it comes down to it. He was the player that impressed me most against Leinster.

    And if Wallace doesn't make the HC team, he'll probably be ahead of BOH for the A game.

    I'm not sure about DOC2, but he's nowhere near DOC yet. At a push he should be ahead of Holland for the bench.


  • #7260
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I'm not sure about DOC2, but he's nowhere near DOC yet. At a push he should be ahead of Holland for the bench.

    At last a bit of realism. Don't see too much of it around here of late


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  • #7261
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Why is there a DOC vs DOC2.0 debate? One's a lock, one's a backrow.


  • #7262
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Why is there a DOC vs DOC2.0 debate? One's a lock, one's a backrow.

    Which one to drop for Ryan I suppose.


  • #7263
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Why is there a DOC vs DOC2.0 debate? One's a lock, one's a backrow.

    DOCv2.0 is a converted lock though, it's been suggested he'll end up back there.


  • #7264
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Flincher wrote: »
    Which one to drop for Ryan I suppose.
    Its a silly debate, Ryan is a better lock than backrow.


  • #7265
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Its a silly debate, Ryan is a better lock than backrow.

    Which is my argument. I think DOC is a better lock than DOC2 is a back row. But I think the difference between Ryan playing lock and back row is significant enough. DOC2 is a much more dynamic ball carrier in the back row and is very strong in defence too.


  • #7266
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    Which is my argument. I think DOC is a better lock than DOC2 is a back row. But I think the difference between Ryan playing lock and back row is significant enough. DOC2 is a much more dynamic ball carrier in the back row and is very strong in defence too.

    Tbf, DOC doesn't carry at all, so that's not much of an accolade.


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  • #7267
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77895933&postcount=3593

    Post on the Connacht thread re Fogarty heading to France, anyone got any details.


  • #7268
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    Which is my argument. I think DOC is a better lock than DOC2 is a back row. But I think the difference between Ryan playing lock and back row is significant enough. DOC2 is a much more dynamic ball carrier in the back row and is very strong in defence too.

    Ryan is a better second row than DOC and a better backrow then DOC2.

    I don't know if that adds to the arguement though :pac:


  • #7269
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77895933&postcount=3593

    Post on the Connacht thread re Fogarty heading to France, anyone got any details.

    Unconfirmed which club he's going to but he's told Cork Con's coaching staff thats where he'll be next season.

    I'll give you more details when I hear them


  • #7270
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=77895933&postcount=3593

    Post on the Connacht thread re Fogarty heading to France, anyone got any details.

    France is a large country on mainland Europe. It's capital city is Paris and it is a constitutional democracy.


  • #7271
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Good luck to him, it's a shame he never got his throwing right. Other parts of his game like carrying ability and work rate were excellent.

    So our hookers next season will be Varley, Sherry and Henry with Casey and Scannell already in the academy system.


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  • #7272
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Good luck to him, it's a shame he never got his throwing right. Other parts of his game like carrying ability and work rate were excellent.

    So our hookers next season will be Varley, Sherry and Henry with Casey and Scannell already in the academy system.

    True, Fogs would be a top level player but for it. A new start could be great for him.


  • #7273
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Good luck to him, it's a shame he never got his throwing right. Other parts of his game like carrying ability and work rate were excellent.

    So our hookers next season will be Varley, Sherry and Henry with Casey and Scannell already in the academy system.

    How highly is Scannell rated?

    In the England game he seemed to be a great leader in the pack. England scored a try right in front of me and he grabbed the pack and you could see them pick up a bit. I was impressed by that, and he did it a few other times. Is he a good player though?


  • #7274
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Good luck to him, it's a shame he never got his throwing right. Other parts of his game like carrying ability and work rate were excellent.

    So our hookers next season will be Varley, Sherry and Henry with Casey and Scannell already in the academy system.

    Handy players but a huge step down from Flannery. If you could combine Varley and Sherry we'd be laughing. One guys strenghts are the other guys weaknesses and vice versa. We could end up luring Sean Cronin home yet.


  • #7275
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    How highly is Scannell rated?

    In the England game he seemed to be a great leader in the pack. England scored a try right in front of me and he grabbed the pack and you could see them pick up a bit. I was impressed by that, and he did it a few other times. Is he a good player though?

    He'll need to improve his throwing if he's going to have any chance.


  • #7276
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Handy players but a huge step down from Flannery. If you could combine Varley and Sherry we'd be laughing. One guys strenghts are the other guys weaknesses and vice versa. We could end up luring Sean Cronin home yet.

    Sherry could be very good if he can get just a bit bigger.


  • #7277
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Ryan is a better second row than DOC and a better backrow then DOC2.

    I don't know if that adds to the arguement though :pac:

    No I think you've settled it.

    We should go with Ryan and O'Callaghan. :D


  • #7278
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Sherry could be very good if he can get just a bit bigger.

    If he got bigger he'd lose half of his dynamism. I actually think the fact that he's great in very open spaces is hiding the fact that he's not so hot in tight spaces and I'm not convinced he's a better scrumager than Varley. He's throwing is top notch though.


  • #7279
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    If he got bigger he'd lose half of his dynamism. I actually think the fact that he's great in very open spaces is hiding the fact that he's not so hot in tight spaces and I'm not convinced he's a better scrumager than Varley. He's throwing is top notch though.

    It's very hard to know what happens in scrums but scrums seem to be better with Sherry on, however, that could be as a result of changes later in games when Sherry tends to come on.


  • #7280
    Flincher
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭Flincher


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Handy players but a huge step down from Flannery. If you could combine Varley and Sherry we'd be laughing. One guys strenghts are the other guys weaknesses and vice versa. We could end up luring Sean Cronin home yet.

    I wouldn't be too pushed about bringing Cronin back to be honest. I've fairly high hopes for Sherry, I was expecting a big season from him, but injuries messed it up. I think he'll be starting next year once he gets a run of games.

    There is still plenty of time for him to resolve his throwing - it took Fla a while as well. His ball carrying is excellent (he played No. 8 and threw into the lineout for Ardscoil Ris). I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn out as good a player as Cronin is (bar the pace obviously).


  • #7281
    PhatPiggins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭PhatPiggins


    Flincher wrote: »
    I wouldn't be too pushed about bringing Cronin back to be honest. I've fairly high hopes for Sherry, I was expecting a big season from him, but injuries messed it up. I think he'll be starting next year once he gets a run of games.

    There is still plenty of time for him to resolve his throwing - it took Fla a while as well. His ball carrying is excellent (he played No. 8 and threw into the lineout for Ardscoil Ris). I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn out as good a player as Cronin is (bar the pace obviously).

    He's throwing is his strong point. I didn't realise that's where he played schools level. Explains a lot about his skill set. Should get better but if Varley could throw to 6 then he'd start ahead of Sherry till he retires.


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  • #7282
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Flincher wrote: »
    I wouldn't be too pushed about bringing Cronin back to be honest. I've fairly high hopes for Sherry, I was expecting a big season from him, but injuries messed it up. I think he'll be starting next year once he gets a run of games.

    There is still plenty of time for him to resolve his throwing - it took Fla a while as well. His ball carrying is excellent (he played No. 8 and threw into the lineout for Ardscoil Ris). I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn out as good a player as Cronin is (bar the pace obviously).

    I don't know about Cronin, he was only ok yesterday, his throwing is still only alright. He's a very different player to Sherry.


  • #7283
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    He's throwing is his strong point. I didn't realise that's where he played schools level. Explains a lot about his skill set. Should get better but if Varley could throw to 6 then he'd start ahead of Sherry till he retires.

    Nah, Varley has too many weaknesses in his game. He's an awful passer, he's a only ok in the set-pieces. He's a decent player but Sherry has far more potential.


  • #7284
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Ryan is a better second row than DOC and a better backrow then DOC2.

    I don't know if that adds to the arguement though :pac:

    I just massively prefer seeing Ryan in the 2nd row than in the back row.

    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Good luck to him, it's a shame he never got his throwing right. Other parts of his game like carrying ability and work rate were excellent.

    So our hookers next season will be Varley, Sherry and Henry with Casey and Scannell already in the academy system.

    Not a bad group of players. Sherry and Varley are both good already and Henry has looked decent when he's got his chance.
    PhatPiggins wrote: »
    Handy players but a huge step down from Flannery. If you could combine Varley and Sherry we'd be laughing. One guys strenghts are the other guys weaknesses and vice versa. We could end up luring Sean Cronin home yet.


    Meh, I don't think Cronin is that great. He's got huge, explosive pace which is obviously very useful but I think Sherry has the potential to be an all-round better player. And I don't think the gap between Varley and Cronin is very big tbh.


  • #7285
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    I just massively prefer seeing Ryan in the 2nd row than in the back row.

    We've no choice though, Ryan has to play 6. As it is we're going to be very, very rusty playing against Ulster. Our lineout is barely functioning, our scrum has been shaky, it's all grim.


  • #7286
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,284 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    So what are people's opinions on Keatley in general?


    I don't have faith in him starting in a HC game yet... but I wouldn't write him off completely yet. He has shown he has a lot of talent but is still inconsistent and not ready for the big games imo. But I think he has to be given the chance by the coaching staff next season. ROG is still the main man but Keatley should start 1 if not 2 Heineken Cup games next year, and be trusted to come off the bench. Maybe even give him some time at 12. If he's not the answer, we've got to find someone else but I don't think we can make that judgement on him yet.

    Munster need to start Keatley sooner rather then later. ROG is playing like a complete drain and I think Keatley would struggle to be worse. He was playing decently enough at the start of the season, but has seen almost no game time since ROG came back. ROG's odd drop goal is entirely colouring his performances this season - he has largely been terrible. Munster would be much better off playing Keatley for most of their games and having ROG to come on in the last 10 minutes to hit the drop goals and grind them to a win.


  • #7287
    Clementine Helpless Scalpel
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Clementine Helpless Scalpel


    Keatley did quite well when he was given a run in the team. He needed time to settle, I don't think that's a problem tbh, lot of guys need to get games under the belt in order to excel, pretty basic issue imo.


  • #7288
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Munster need to start Keatley sooner rather then later. ROG is playing like a complete drain and I think Keatley would struggle to be worse. He was playing decently enough at the start of the season, but has seen almost no game time since ROG came back. ROG's odd drop goal is entirely colouring his performances this season - he has largely been terrible. Munster would be much better off playing Keatley for most of their games and having ROG to come on in the last 10 minutes to hit the drop goals and grind them to a win.

    Hard to know, O'Gara isn't playing as well as he thinks he is, but he's not quite as bad as that either. Ultimately it's up to young players to win their places. There is a massive downside to that, and I think everyone can see that Zebo wouldn't have gotten a run but for Howlett's injury but it's still a central tenet of every squad, even Leinster with d'Arcy (somehow) holding his place ahead of McFadden etc.

    The thing is, the window of opportunity for young players in any established squad to play with the "first" team is quite small, guys like Keatley have to impress in their cameos, like guys like Sherry and TOD have recently. Sherry is already pushing Varley, it's up to Keatley to be so good that he's pushing O'Gara. Of course, it's far, far harder to do that from outhalf, but Keatley doesn't help himself enough, imo.


  • #7289
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Hard to know, O'Gara isn't playing as well as he thinks he is, but he's not quite as bad as that either. Ultimately it's up to young players to win their places. There is a massive downside to that, and I think everyone can see that Zebo wouldn't have gotten a run but for Howlett's injury but it's still a central tenet of every squad, even Leinster with d'Arcy (somehow) holding his place ahead of McFadden etc.
    This season because of BOD's absence both D'Arcy and McFadden havee started nearly all the HEC matches together. It's hard to know what the situation would have been had BOD not been out. McFadden has still had more starts then D'Arcy.


  • #7290
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Munster need to start Keatley sooner rather then later. ROG is playing like a complete drain and I think Keatley would struggle to be worse. He was playing decently enough at the start of the season, but has seen almost no game time since ROG came back. ROG's odd drop goal is entirely colouring his performances this season - he has largely been terrible. Munster would be much better off playing Keatley for most of their games and having ROG to come on in the last 10 minutes to hit the drop goals and grind them to a win.

    Hard to know, O'Gara isn't playing as well as he thinks he is, but he's not quite as bad as that either. Ultimately it's up to young players to win their places. There is a massive downside to that, and I think everyone can see that Zebo wouldn't have gotten a run but for Howlett's injury but it's still a central tenet of every squad, even Leinster with d'Arcy (somehow) holding his place ahead of McFadden etc.

    The thing is, the window of opportunity for young players in any established squad to play with the "first" team is quite small, guys like Keatley have to impress in their cameos, like guys like Sherry and TOD have recently. Sherry is already pushing Varley, it's up to Keatley to be so good that he's pushing O'Gara. Of course, it's far, far harder to do that from outhalf, but Keatley doesn't help himself enough, imo.
    I agree that its up to young players to earn their places, but Keatley isn't getting nearly as much opportunity to do that as Madigan is. In fact Munster are far more conservative with their half backs than any other province, despite having very good reason not to be.

    They need to put a bit more faith in their depth. McGahan is really making the job tough on whoever is going to replace him.


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  • #7291
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I agree that its up to young players to earn their places, but Keatley isn't getting nearly as much opportunity to do that as Madigan is. In fact Munster are far more conservative with their half backs than any other province, despite having very good reason not to be.

    They need to put a bit more faith in their depth. McGahan is really making the job tough on whoever is going to replace him.

    I think Downey will make a big difference next year, in the sense that for all his faults he can get across the gainline and pass the ball. The problem isn't just O'Gara, it's O'Gara and Mafi. One can't break and one won't pass but anyhow, I can see your point about needing to play Keatley more, just don't think Keatley has really demanded to be played more with his recent performances. If Keatley had used the Connacht game to make an argument for himself I'd be more understanding but if anything he made a case for O'Gara.

    Keatley needs to make sure his kicking is flawless, like McFadden has done, too, imo. He's still prone to poor misses.


  • #7292
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    rrpc wrote: »
    This season because of BOD's absence both D'Arcy and McFadden havee started nearly all the HEC matches together. It's hard to know what the situation would have been had BOD not been out. McFadden has still had more starts then D'Arcy.

    The idea that d'Arcy is starting at all when guys like McFadden and O'Malley are about is what I'm getting at though. To some extent I'd include Luke Fitz in it too, he's assured of his place when he really shouldn't be. It's a pity Conway has had such a bad run with injuries, I think he could be the guy to force Fitz into the centre.


  • #7293
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    The idea that d'Arcy is starting at all when guys like McFadden and O'Malley are about is what I'm getting at though. To some extent I'd include Luke Fitz in it too, he's assured of his place when he really shouldn't be. It's a pity Conway has had such a bad run with injuries, I think he could be the guy to force Fitz into the centre.
    Actually, I was wrong on them starting together. They've had equal starts, but O'Malley has had three as well (in the HEC).

    Joe tends to start a seasoned campaigner with a younger guy (Toner with Cullen or with Thorn, O'Malley with D'Arcy or D'Arcy with McFadden etc.) which is fine by me tbh.


  • #7294
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    rrpc wrote: »
    Actually, I was wrong on them starting together. They've had equal starts, but O'Malley has had three as well (in the HEC).

    Joe tends to start a seasoned campaigner with a younger guy (Toner with Cullen or with Thorn, O'Malley with D'Arcy or D'Arcy with McFadden etc.) which is fine by me tbh.

    I don't think anyone has much of a problem with that, most coaches do it, but it makes it harder for young guys to win places as you are always going to go with more experienced guys like Cullen and d'Arcy ahead of guys who (now) have more potential. So, for example, Sherry gets to play with Wian and Botha, Murray gets to play with O'Gara etc. The thing people use to criticise Munster coaches is used to praise others.

    It's also worth remembering in Keatley's defence, he's had to play with TOL. TOL is a super athlete but when he's off form, he can make it very hard for whoever's playing outhalf.


  • #7295
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I don't think anyone has much of a problem with that, most coaches do it, but it makes it harder for young guys to win places as you are always going to go with more experienced guys like Cullen and d'Arcy ahead of guys who (now) have more potential. So, for example, Sherry gets to play with Wian and Botha, Murray gets to play with O'Gara etc. The thing people use to criticise Munster coaches is used to praise others.

    It's also worth remembering in Keatley's defence, he's had to play with TOL. TOL is a super athlete but when he's off form, he can make it very hard for whoever's playing outhalf.
    We're not disagreeing here ;)

    I've stated elsewhere that Keatley should be getting starts with Murray. TOL is far too slow for Keatley's style of play. The examples I gave above are ones where this kind of rotation happens. Unfortunately for Keatley he's been done no favours by the Munster management, Murray also would benefit from that pairing because ROG doesn't require quick ball, so Murray doesn't have to deliver it. You could see he was trying to speed up to match Sexton's demands in the 6N, but he couldn't maintain the pace.


  • #7296
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    rrpc wrote: »
    We're not disagreeing here ;)

    I've stated elsewhere that Keatley should be getting starts with Murray. TOL is far too slow for Keatley's style of play. The examples I gave above are ones where this kind of rotation happens. Unfortunately for Keatley he's been done no favours by the Munster management, Murray also would benefit from that pairing because ROG doesn't require quick ball, so Murray doesn't have to deliver it. You could see he was trying to speed up to match Sexton's demands in the 6N, but he couldn't maintain the pace.

    Yeah, it's interesting you mention the scrumhalf's style of play, seemingly Munster want the scrumhalf to step before passing to tie in the backrow. You'd think with genuine pace like Earls, Zebo and Jones we'd be getting the ball out as fast as possible. That's directly opposite to what fluid teams like NZ do, where the ball is virtually never slowed. The annoying thing is Murray is well capable of passing without stepping, we could end ruining a decent player for no good reason.

    Mind you, going by last Saturday, we also view Mick O'Driscoll as some sort of 12.


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  • #7297
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Yeah, it's interesting you mention the scrumhalf's style of play, seemingly Munster want the scrumhalf to step before passing to tie in the backrow. You'd think with genuine pace like Earls, Zebo and Jones we'd be getting the ball out as fast as possible. That's directly opposite to what fluid teams like NZ do, where the ball is virtually never slowed. The annoying thing is Murray is well capable of passing without stepping, we could end ruining a decent player for no good reason.
    That's what I'm afraid of too. I rate Murray highly, but unless Munster change that style of play, he could easily be eclipsed by Marshall in the green jersey which would be a shame (not for Marshall I must add).

    It's also not good for Keatley. I see many Munster fans writing him off when he's just not being used effectively. Look at the 'Madigan' thread for instance.


  • #7298
    Junior
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,218 ✭✭✭Junior


    rrpc wrote: »
    That's what I'm afraid of too. I rate Murray highly, but unless Munster change that style of play, he could easily be eclipsed by Marshall in the green jersey which would be a shame (not for Marshall I must add).

    It's also not good for Keatley. I see many Munster fans writing him off when he's just not being used effectively. Look at the 'Madigan' thread for instance.

    I'd agree with you there I actually thought Keatley had a very good start to the season and hasn't been used correctly since.


  • #7299
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    rrpc wrote: »
    This season because of BOD's absence both D'Arcy and McFadden havee started nearly all the HEC matches together. It's hard to know what the situation would have been had BOD not been out. McFadden has still had more starts then D'Arcy.

    The idea that d'Arcy is starting at all when guys like McFadden and O'Malley are about is what I'm getting at though. To some extent I'd include Luke Fitz in it too, he's assured of his place when he really shouldn't be. It's a pity Conway has had such a bad run with injuries, I think he could be the guy to force Fitz into the centre.
    D'Arcy is better at 12 than both McFadden and O'Malley though. When he is playing for Leinster.

    They're both getting plenty of opportunity though recently.

    As for Luke, he has had an excellent season. Conway isn't close to that jersey yet.


  • #7300
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    rrpc wrote: »
    That's what I'm afraid of too. I rate Murray highly, but unless Munster change that style of play, he could easily be eclipsed by Marshall in the green jersey which would be a shame (not for Marshall I must add).

    It's also not good for Keatley. I see many Munster fans writing him off when he's just not being used effectively. Look at the 'Madigan' thread for instance.

    I thought Murray was quite good against France and Reddan was quite poor against England so for me, Murray is still the guy Ireland need to go with. If Marshall comes in ahead of Reddan and challenges Murray then it's a good thing for Ireland.


  • #7301
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    D'Arcy is better at 12 than both McFadden and O'Malley though. When he is playing for Leinster.

    They're both getting plenty of opportunity though recently.

    As for Luke, he has had an excellent season. Conway isn't close to that jersey yet.

    I really like Fitz, I think he has the full bag of tricks and he seems to be nice guy but on Saturday I couldn't help but think how little end product there is to anything he does. It looks good but is it anything more than that? As I said before, I'd have him as Ireland's replacement 13 to BOD but I'm not sure he's a back three player anymore. If you compare Nacewa to Fitz as utility back three players, Nacewa is leagues ahead of him.


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