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Prisons aren't expensive because of "pampering". They are expensive because they are run by the public service, with exorbitant salaries and all the other associated bonuses and pensions that go with this.
As for the original point, we can't afford a guard on every street. What we can do is make sure that proper sentences are handed out, and that criminals with multiple convictions are put away for a long time. So, raise it with politicians the next time you see them, and don't go off on some vague rant about bondholders.
Perhaps we should follow the example of the UK and privatise them. Group Four made such a good job of that that the government felt compelled to re-nationalise them. It's easy to run prisons on a shoestring when you can't manage to keep anybody in them.
:):) 0 -
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oscarBravo wrote: »Realising it is a good start. I didn't accuse you of disdain for anyone.
You're confusing justice with revenge. You've given no indication that you think we should punish people in order to make society safer; you've only indicated that we should punish people because you feel they deserve to be punished.
If you can produce some evidence that making people do harder time will reduce recidivism rates more effectively than making a genuine effort to rehabilitate them, please do so. Andrew Wakefield is a fraud and a liar. Does that mean that we should ignore everything that doctors have to say?
Rehabilitation may be wasted on some, but that is a piss-poor argument for replacing any attempt at rehabilitation with tougher punishment for all offenders. If the only lesson people learn in prison is that society doesn't consider them worthy of being treated like a decent human being, why are people surprised when people leave prison and don't act like decent human beings?
Going by your user name and by the knowledge displayed by your posts I imagine that you are involved in law enforcement (I am not asking -- it's none of my business). If that's so then I expect that you know much more about the subject than I do. My limited knowledge is sadly only that obtained from the media, and that is not usually a good source. So, I would be happy if rehabilitation worked, and possibly in many cases it does although the evidence seems to me to be that in many other cases it doesn't. Perhaps, though, there is one significant barrier to its doing so -- for example, if someone is sentenced and serves time for a violent armed robbery, is rehabilitated and released, how does he then support himself as a responsible member of the community? Who is going to employ him given his record? Is rehabilitation simply the first step without any follow up? What actually happens afterwards?Zubeneschamali wrote: »So, arrested in short order, as I suggested.
Not roaming the countryside with impunity, as you suggested.
Are you going to admit you were wrong?
Vote Fine Gael?
Well, they managed, I am told, to attack three shops in the area and were not caught until the following day. That is not a criticism of the Gardai, who clearly didn't hang about in this case! However, the point of my first and later posts was that the public perception seems to be that violent armed robbery of shops and family homes is on the increase, and the justice minister's response is to close 100 rural Garda stations.
Of course I have no means of knowing whether or not this particular crime would still have been committed if there had been a Garda station in our village, but I can't help wondering if their knowledge that the nearest one was on the other side of the city something like ten miles away gave them some comfort. Anyway, it is not just a matter of how many small stations there are, but more a case of resources. I would argue that we need a better resourced Gardai, with significantly more of them. If, for example, the robbers knew that there were Garda patrol cars out on the roads in numbers and might quickly turn up anywhere, they might have pause for thought. My (limited) perception is that this government and its predecessor has taken the opposite approach and, if so, has failed in its duty to the public.
So no, I am not yet going to "admit that I was wrong" on the strength of this particular case. I will happily do so when I see evidence that the problem of violent armed crime is being addressed. That doesn't necessarily mean draconian punishments or flogging at the stake (tempting though that might be for some crimes :rolleyes:), or the end of rehabilitation since I can believe that there are a number of complex issues involved. I just am not convinced by endless ministerial sound bites and little else. And I won't be voting for FG, or Labour, or FF at the next election since I have no faith in any of them.0 -
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BillyBoy13 wrote: »Reasonable force is a pretty straight forward concept. People seem to think if someone robs your house you have an automatic right to assault them.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
Just because he breaks the law by breaking into your house doesn't automatically give you the right to break the law too.
For example, you hear a noise one night, you creep down the stairs and see there's that hateful little 15 year old from the across the street and hes looking through the press in your living room.
You quietly pick up a baseball bat, creep up behind him he doesnt even realise you are there. Then you hit him as hard as you can across the head and when he falls down you start stamping on him. Even though hes unconscious you still continue to hit him with the bat.
You broke just about every bone in his body, organ damage etc... you leave him within a hair of his life and 8 months later he finally gets out of hospital but is paralysed from the neck down and has to eat soup for the rest of his life.
That wasn't self defense. That was an assault pure and simple. There is no way, in that scenario you can claim you were reasonably defending yourself.
Yes he broke into your house. Yes you are mad/pissed off/absolutely raging but that doesnt give you the green light to assault him.
There is no one size fits all answer regarding reasonable force. It depends on the circumstances...
Perhaps someone runs into your shop demanding the money from the till, you give it to him, he runs out the door with the money. As soon the door closes behind him you run out to the store room grab the axe and give chase. You finally catch him almost a kilometer down the road and then you buried the axe in his skull and killed him.
Or maybe he was robbing your house one night, you hear a noise and go down stairs. He charges at you with with the knife shouting and screaming and then you picked up the axe and hit him with it.
One of those examples is reasonable force the other one is assault... I'll leave you to figure out which ones which.
I think you need to stop watching Quentin Tarantino movies.
You have gone to an extreme which actually rarely if ever happens.
You are disregarding the type of breakin/robberies that are sadly all too common enough in rural Ireland.
Those are the ones where people breakin to a house with elderly people and proceed to tie them up, beat them and almost torture them to extract some money from them.
Do you suggest the elderly victims do nothing if they have a chance to protect themselves.
A number of years ago I recall an incident in Galway where some such lowlifes broke into an eldlerly farmer one night.
He told them he had a gun and would shoot them if they came into the bedroom.
They did and he shot at one of them and hit him.
He fled but ended up in hospital.
If the farmer had blown his head clear off I think it was justified.0 -
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