Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Coming home? Are you thinking about it?

12357…11

Comments

  • #202
    Old Perry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Old Perry


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    The facts beg to differ and I'd rely on them over opinion any day.

    This is true. its definetly on the up and up, even a quick scan of boards shows a fair amount more positive jobs threads than say this time 2 years ago. Certainly not like pre 2005 in that ya cant walz into a job and its 100% more competitive now but on the rise none the less.


  • #203
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    spunkymunky wrote: »
    I wouldnt go so fae as SO Lonely in my case but somewhat... I wasnt happy either way ( I thought anyway)
    If you do miss Ireland, its only a short hope over.

    I have PR so can back, and could probably get my job back too, so the options are good...its the distance and a big move (again) at 34!!!

    I would imagine it's more that you have changed. Living in another country and culture for a while gives you a different perspective.

    I left when the recession was still at it's worst. People were pretty down when I left. They are still pretty down despite the upturn.


  • #204
    Jimmy Iovine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭Jimmy Iovine


    I've just returned from three years abroad - one doing a postgrad in Wales and two working in England. I liked England. I really liked getting my wages in sterling for the past few months.

    I moved home partly because of the workload in England but mainly to be at least on the same island as my girlfriend. It was either going to be a case of me moving home or her moving over.

    We have plans (not concrete) to move abroad in a few years. Being a teacher, the money is in the Middle East. I think we'll end up over there for at least two years. I can see us living in Ireland in the long-term though, but who knows.


  • #205
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,899 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I left when the recession was still at it's worst. People were pretty down when I left. They are still pretty down despite the upturn.

    its all relative im afraid. some people aint doing too bad now but some are not in a particularly good place particularly those that are in trouble with mortgages etc. some industries arent doing great compared to others, some pay rates have dropped dramatically, many people are working more hours than ever with ever increasing workloads and responsibilities with little or no pay rises. some parts of the country are still not doing great whereby others are flying. i do feel in some industries, moral is very low due to the above and with increased taxes etc but in saying all that, if you're really that homesick and its not going away, its probably a good idea to come home. things are probably a lot better than they were a couple of years ago but im very cautious about our 'recovery' or as i say, our survival mode.


  • #206
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,899 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Jimmy Iovine wrote: »
    We have plans (not concrete) to move abroad in a few years. Being a teacher, the money is in the Middle East. I think we'll end up over there for at least two years. I can see us living in Ireland in the long-term though, but who knows.

    cousins are in the middle east last couple of years teaching. loving it. best of luck with your plans


  • #207
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    its all relative im afraid. some people aint doing too bad now but some are not in a particularly good place particularly those that are in trouble with mortgages etc. some industries arent doing great compared to others, some pay rates have dropped dramatically, many people are working more hours than ever with ever increasing workloads and responsibilities with little or no pay rises. some parts of the country are still not doing great whereby others are flying. i do feel in some industries, moral is very low due to the above and with increased taxes etc but in saying all that, if you're really that homesick and its not going away, its probably a good idea to come home. things are probably a lot better than they were a couple of years ago but im very cautious about our 'recovery' or as i say, our survival mode.

    I'm lucky enough that I've been home about 5 times this past year. From what I can tell from my friends who went back to college and re-skilled, people who lost their jobs and got another job or just people who just went to college and finished. It seems all the same. Everybody is making much less than back before 2008...which is understandable and makes sense.

    The only thing to me that doesn't make much sense is the fact that the cost of living was going down when I still lived there, a few years into the recession, the grocery stores had started to compete. You'd go into Tesco or Dunnes and get a 3 for 9.99 deal on meat. You could buy your dinners for a week for just over 20 euro. I know it's not a great indicator but Supremacs prices all went up. Prices of a lot of things seems to have gone up over the last 2 years or so.

    The price of rent in Galway barely budged. A lot of businesses actually went under because landlords refused to drop their rent despite the fact business was down for everybody. I know Dublin and Cork had similar situations...

    Here we sit over 7 years later. People working harder, making less and paying more. Obviously the introduction of Irish Water and Property Tax are two extra swift blows too...those are recurring charges and now that they are in place, they'll never be removed (though, there's hope for Irish Water) or go down in price. They'll only go up.

    BUT I'd still rather be in that Ireland with the security of living in Ireland rather than be in a booming America. That's just my opinion. I'm having unbelievable opportunities here too. I hope to never need social services here or in Ireland but I like living in a country that has them. More equality. There's still a class system in Ireland but it's not nearly as harsh of a drop off as it is here.


  • #208
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,899 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    I'm lucky enough that I've been home about 5 times this past year. From what I can tell from my friends who went back to college and re-skilled, people who lost their jobs and got another job or just people who just went to college and finished. It seems all the same. Everybody is making much less than back before 2008...which is understandable and makes sense.

    The only thing to me that doesn't make much sense is the fact that the cost of living was going down when I still lived there, a few years into the recession, the grocery stores had started to compete. You'd go into Tesco or Dunnes and get a 3 for 9.99 deal on meat. You could buy your dinners for a week for just over 20 euro. I know it's not a great indicator but Supremacs prices all went up. Prices of a lot of things seems to have gone up over the last 2 years or so.

    The price of rent in Galway barely budged. A lot of businesses actually went under because landlords refused to drop their rent despite the fact business was down for everybody. I know Dublin and Cork had similar situations...

    Here we sit over 7 years later. People working harder, making less and paying more. Obviously the introduction of Irish Water and Property Tax are two extra swift blows too...those are recurring charges and now that they are in place, they'll never be removed (though, there's hope for Irish Water) or go down in price. They'll only go up.

    BUT I'd still rather be in that Ireland with the security of living in Ireland rather than be in a booming America. That's just my opinion. I'm having unbelievable opportunities here too. I hope to never need social services here or in Ireland but I like living in a country that has them. More equality. There's still a class system in Ireland but it's not nearly as harsh of a drop off as it is here.

    its great to hear your story and im delighted you're doing great over there. its an amazing opportunity for you in every possible way and i wish you the best with it. im sure you will return home at some stage and irelands needs people like you to do so but sure if you dont want to, thats completely up to you. its great to have the option.

    im just deeply concerned of the direction ireland is going in. the cost of living has dramatically risen in a way that is unsustainable. unfortunately this will probably give at some stage for some families and it doesnt seem like we have much of a backup plan for these families. the vulnerable of our society have become very exposed in all of this and that is a major concern. i actually think inequality may be growing in ireland which greatly worries me. even though i see what your talking about with irish water, i do feel we should be paying for water on a usage basis, im more worried about it becoming privatised in the future. its a bit of a mess really and its a bill too much for most.


  • #209
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    SoFluffy wrote: »
    My husband and I are returning home next month. We lived in the Netherlands for 2 years and then Perth for 3. I have a job to go back to in Dublin, but my husband doesn't have anything yet. We always knew we wanted to reurn to Ireland, just didn't really know when, but my job in Ireland pretty much made the decision for us! We are excited, looking forward to spending time with family and friends, but I know we will miss some things about Oz, mostly the weather and outdoor lifestyle. We are hoping it will work out for us, but if it doesn't at least we know we gave it a try!!! Nice to read through this thread, anytime this topic of conversation comes up on irish in Perth facebook pages, it's all negative ' why would you want to go back?', 'you'll be back in 6 months time'.....usual stuff.....
    I'm in the middle of packing boxes and selling stuff on gumtree, took a break and read this, it nearly made me cry.....I'm so nervous, sometimes I think what the hell are we doing?!? Eekk.....😫😫

    Oh I am both so happy this thread was useful and sorry it made you sad! I hope you'll keep us in the loop on how you manage on your journey back. If worst comes to worst, you can always leave again. We're some of the luckiest people in the world, we have so much choice.

    Today I heard that "There's nothing to do in Dublin during the day, and nothing to do in California during the night" - I think this must be true for any hot country where outdoor sports and activities become a central part of life. But I have some friends in Ireland and they are busy every weekend at festivals, shows, hiking. I think wherever you are is what you make of it.

    Hope packing goes ok, and you have all the little cries you need :)
    BailMeOut wrote: »
    We moved back in 2010 and we lived away for nearly 20 years.

    If you do move back get your private Irish health insurance from day one of arriving as much of your coverage will not start for period of time after that. I forget how long but you will want to get that clock ticking as quickly as possible.

    The worst part of the move for my wife was getting an Irish driving license. I already had one but the new rules meant she had to do driving lessons and do the test again. There is no way around this as you cannot drive with you USA license after 12 months.

    Good luck and PM me if you need any help.

    Wow, away for 20 and back for 5. No regrets? That's a long time to be away and then come back but so cool to hear from someone who's done it :)

    Great advice re: insurance. Will keep that in mind.

    Am dreading getting an Irish license :( They have those stupid mini-tests now that cost a bomb both in time and money. I had a provisional in Ireland in like.... 2012 maybe, dont even know where it is, and I have been driving in America for two years. The hassle when I go back will be so annoying!
    Riverireland wrote: »
    To anyone thinking of coming home think twice. News of Ireland recovery are being greatly exaggerated.

    I think this may have some truth to it, but is entirely subjective as other people have said. Seems like the common theme of coming home is not money, but a mix of family/friends and standard of living. Always good to plan pessimistically and then be ok in the end, anyway :)
    spunkymunky wrote: »
    Ive read through this thread with great interest as I am one of the returned. I was almost 5 years away between Australia and New Zealand (Mainly New Zealand).

    Its been a good year but part of me cant shake that I should be back in New Zealand or not in Ireland. Not sure why but Dublin doesn’t seem the same (Ireland too!!) ….What was the Dubliner line about you cant go home??? I have changed and so has Dublin…it all seems so serious now!!

    New Zealand is so incredibly beautiful. If it was closer to Ireland (it's literally it's antipode, right?!) I would be there in a heartbeat.

    I wonder will Dublin start to feel more normal for you as time goes by? Keep us in the loop.
    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    im just deeply concerned of the direction ireland is going in. the cost of living has dramatically risen in a way that is unsustainable. unfortunately this will probably give at some stage for some families and it doesnt seem like we have much of a backup plan for these families. the vulnerable of our society have become very exposed in all of this and that is a major concern. i actually think inequality may be growing in ireland which greatly worries me. even though i see what your talking about with irish water, i do feel we should be paying for water on a usage basis, im more worried about it becoming privatised in the future. its a bit of a mess really and its a bill too much for most.

    This is a legit concern. I'd love to come back and work on it somehow - volunteer campaigning or something. I have no idea but I've always been so proud of ireland for having a social care system, I would hate to see it crumble.


  • #210
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    I have no idea but I've always been so proud of ireland for having a social care system, I would hate to see it crumble.
    I'd love to see it crumble and be rebuilt as a system that genuinely seeks to look after those who have temporarily fallen on hard times (except for what should be exceptional cases of incapacity to work).

    I believe our current system is breeding an underclass of under achievers who believe the role of the state is to support them in their lifestyle choices and that will come back to haunt us, if it isn't already.


  • Advertisement
  • #211
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    murphaph wrote: »
    I'd love to see it crumble and be rebuilt as a system that genuinely seeks to look after those who have temporarily fallen on hard times (except for what should be exceptional cases of incapacity to work).

    I believe our current system is breeding an underclass of under achievers who believe the role of the state is to support them in their lifestyle choices and that will come back to haunt us, if it isn't already.

    You're entitled to your own opinion, of course. But I'd disagree with that. In our best times, we had an unemployment rate of around 4% in 2001-2002. I'm of the opinion that if you give people opportunities they will seize them.

    To me that's the biggest problem in the US. There's such a clear class system at work. There's people that will never be given the opportunities to succeed. People point to those cases of someone who came from nothing and made millions as the example to follow. But the reality is, that's not possible for everybody.

    There has always been those exceptions in Ireland... The people that just don't want to work, who are happy to just take the tax payers money and not contribute themselves. It is disgusting and it's ****e when you're one of those having 30%+ taken out of your pay while looking at some a-hole going off to Lanzarote with money from your pocket BUT I've been thinking about this a lot.

    I think, unfortunately there's no sure fired, just system. I think it's a blunt force instrument. The minute you start penalizing people or with-holding for certain circumstance is the minute you start that downward spiral. Have a look at Kansas, they are going to start to limit dole recipients bank accounts, they cannot take out more than $25 from the ATM on a given day. My favorite thing about the Irish people is our caring and giving nature. Even with such high taxes and a huge downturn. We remain, per capita, one of the most giving nations on the planet to charities.

    What we could do, is start to encourage people to rat out dole cheats. Right now it seems like there's people who will call you dry or an a-hole if you tell the revenue about your neighbor on the dole working nixers. There's always that tired old "What about the bankers and politicians!? Why are you coming down on me?" - We need to get a handle on the corruption across all of our society. No more excuses.


  • #212
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    We're going off topic (seriously lads we need our own forum!) but would love to add to this.

    I put it down to this, simply. There will always be people who take advantage of, and game, the system. But for that tiny percentage who do, there are thousands who are using it as intended. For temporary support or for education or for the right reasons.

    In America, they will step over hungry homeless people to been seen going to a fundraiser for the homeless. Anyone who fails hasnt tried hard enough. College debt is huge. You can go bankrupt if you get sick. Schools are funded by local taxes, so rich areas have great education and poor areas dont. The list of stuff I could put here is huge and terrible and sad.

    If all we do in Ireland is provide free education, free health care and free social housing and some dole, then I'll always be proud. Even if it is a shoddy system. Would love to see it rebuilt too, but for the right reasons.

    A countries success should be measured by it's poorest person. Maybe that's dreamy and ridiculous, but a safety net for humans doesnt seem like such a horrific thing.


  • #213
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    Side note: Would you like a returning immigrants forum? I requested one here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96478786#post96478786

    Please comment if you'd like one!


  • #214
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • #215
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    Here in the Middle East, I have a friend from Poland. He earns the same as me in UAE terms. But he is able to invest his savings into farmland in Poland because agricultural land prices there are very low compared with Ireland. He can buy a hectare of land for one-third of what it would cost in Ireland. So he's bought up a few hundred acres, on which there are streams and woods, and an old farmhouse, too.

    I don't want to buy a farm as such. But it did make me think about buying an old cottage with maybe 10-20 acres or so of unimproved meadowland, full of hedges and wildlife, with a pond or two.... Somewhere in deepest Tipperary or Kerry where I could plant some native trees, have an orchard, grow my own vegetables, and make some hay in the summer. Just for the fun of it. Irish price: More than double what my friend has paid in Poland for far more land.

    The conversation made me think about the overall cost of living in Ireland. The agonizing question for me is this: "Is it worth it?" When I look at my friend, he gets so much more for the same money in Poland than I would in Ireland. I don't think Poland compares that poorly to Ireland by the way. It's got a seasonal climate, many forests, beautiful cities, and it is up-and-coming. But the real point is that when you have money, you have choice. So why choose the most expensive choice possible?

    So after x number of years abroad, let's say you have amassed 1M euros. You could take that and move to Ireland and pay Irish prices, or you could take it and move somewhere nice where things cost only 70% of what they cost in Ireland, giving you an effective purchasing power of 1.3M euros. That's the price of a very nice house right there (in Ireland) or a small bucolic estate (somewhere else). For me, quality of life is closely - but not exclusively - linked to financial security. And when I think how far my money would get me in Ireland versus some other countries where I might like to live, I'm struggling to see how Ireland is attractive.


  • #216
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    FURET wrote: »
    I don't want to buy a farm as such. But it did make me think about buying an old cottage with maybe 10-20 acres or so of unimproved meadowland, full of hedges and wildlife, with a pond or two.... Somewhere in deepest Tipperary or Kerry where I could plant some native trees, have an orchard, grow my own vegetables, and make some hay in the summer. Just for the fun of it. Irish price: More than double what my friend has paid in Poland for far more land.
    I wouldn't plan to invest in a retirement home unless I was already north of 55, TBH.

    There's a lot of Italians here in Switzerland, many of whom bought retirement homes back home in their thirties, planning on moving back when they retired and take advantage of their Swiss pensions in the cheaper Italian economy. Along the way life happened; many could no longer bring themselves to live in the relative chaos that is Italy and/or they started families, their kids grew up more Swiss than Italian, married Swiss spouses, had kids and have no intention of following their parents south to the 'old country'. As a result, many of those Italians at best spend just a few months in the houses they bought, not wanting to be too far from their children and grandchildren.

    My aunt moved to Germany about 40 years ago - in the nineties she bought a place in Dublin with a view to retiring there. By 2004, while she never married or had kids, she realized that other than her siblings she knew no one back 'home' - in fact, Germany had become home at that stage. So she sold her apartment in Ireland and bought one in Munich instead.

    Unless you're in the homestretch (over a certain age or planning on returning anyway in the next few years), I really would treat any investment such as buying a property as exactly that; an investment. That it would hold it's value and bring in rent would be far more important than any daydream about planting trees, as there's a good chance you'll never actually live there. You can always sell it and buy what you want, rather than what makes sense, when you're ten years away from retirement or return.


  • Advertisement
  • #217
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    The more pertinent point from my post is the COL in Ireland.


  • #218
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    FURET wrote: »
    The more pertinent point from my post is the COL in Ireland.
    Not really as this too can change. Cost of living in Ireland twenty-five years ago was a lot lower, relative to other European countries, than it is now.

    What will it be in another twenty-five?

    Hence my point that planning too far ahead for these things is generally unwise.


  • #219
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    For some of us, Corinthian, it's probably not too far ahead at all! So issues like this take on a slightly greater immediacy.


  • #220
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    FURET wrote: »
    For some of us, Corinthian, it's probably not too far ahead at all! So issues like this take on a slightly greater immediacy.
    I agree, and pointed that out in the first line of my first post on this. But you'd be surprised how many thirtysomethings are already buying their 'retirement' homes for when they return to the aul sod.


  • #221
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    FURET wrote: »
    I don't want to buy a farm as such. But it did make me think about buying an old cottage with maybe 10-20 acres or so of unimproved meadowland, full of hedges and wildlife, with a pond or two.... Somewhere in deepest Tipperary or Kerry where I could plant some native trees, have an orchard, grow my own vegetables, and make some hay in the summer. Just for the fun of it. Irish price: More than double what my friend has paid in Poland for far more land.

    The conversation made me think about the overall cost of living in Ireland. The agonizing question for me is this: "Is it worth it?" When I look at my friend, he gets so much more for the same money in Poland than I would in Ireland. I don't think Poland compares that poorly to Ireland by the way. It's got a seasonal climate, many forests, beautiful cities, and it is up-and-coming. But the real point is that when you have money, you have choice. So why choose the most expensive choice possible?

    This is pretty much what we did twelve years ago. I took early "retirement" in my thirties, but also bearing in mind Corinthian's point-of-view. Back then, I was persuaded that investing for a retirement at 55/60/65 was a waste of money, especially as interest rates were expected to remain historically low at around 5% :eek:

    So instead, we "retired" to France where we could rear our children at a much lower cost than Ireland or the UK. I did plant a new orchard, a veg plot and caretakered the growth of self-sown oaks, acacias and chestnuts, and ten years on, the value of that continues to increase, to the point where it doesn't really make financial sense for me to go back to work in Ireland or the UK for anything less than six figures p.a. with at least 12wk holiday per year.

    Every year, the UK ex-pat pensioners here go through a nail-biting episode wondering if their winter fuel allowance is going to be paid/renewed; I don't have that problem - I can see my winter fuel for the next fifty years growing out the back. :)


  • Advertisement
  • #222
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    @ The Corinthian: It's probably overhasty to do so in most cases. My approach to property has always been unconventional - moreso now that I'm a long-term expat. My wife and I will not buy any property until we're ready to settle somewhere. And I personally find the idea of buying a rental property highly unattractive for a host of reasons.


  • #223
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    I was persuaded that investing for a retirement at 55/60/65 was a waste of money
    Oh, I certainly don't think that investing for retirement is a waste of money. But doing something like investing in a property you intend to 'live in', in 20 or 30 years time, is.
    FURET wrote: »
    @ The Corinthian: It's probably overhasty to do so in most cases. My approach to property has always been unconventional - moreso now that I'm a long-term expat. My wife and I will not buy any property until we're ready to settle somewhere. And I personally find the idea of buying a rental property highly unattractive for a host of reasons.
    If you feel property is an unattractive investment, then I completely agree with you. My point was one of 'rational' investment as opposed to 'sentimental' investment, that you'll often get.


  • #224
    keithclancy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    FURET wrote: »
    I don't want to buy a farm as such. But it did make me think about buying an old cottage with maybe 10-20 acres or so of unimproved meadowland, full of hedges and wildlife, with a pond or two.... Somewhere in deepest Tipperary or Kerry where I could plant some native trees, have an orchard, grow my own vegetables, and make some hay in the summer. Just for the fun of it. Irish price: More than double what my friend has paid in Poland for far more land.
    .

    10-20 acres ..... Can you imagine having to cut the grass :D:D:D:D


  • #225
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    This is pretty much what we did twelve years ago. I took early "retirement" in my thirties, but also bearing in mind Corinthian's point-of-view. Back then, I was persuaded that investing for a retirement at 55/60/65 was a waste of money, especially as interest rates were expected to remain historically low at around 5% :eek:

    So instead, we "retired" to France where we could rear our children at a much lower cost than Ireland or the UK. I did plant a new orchard, a veg plot and caretakered the growth of self-sown oaks, acacias and chestnuts, and ten years on, the value of that continues to increase, to the point where it doesn't really make financial sense for me to go back to work in Ireland or the UK for anything less than six figures p.a. with at least 12wk holiday per year.

    Every year, the UK ex-pat pensioners here go through a nail-biting episode wondering if their winter fuel allowance is going to be paid/renewed; I don't have that problem - I can see my winter fuel for the next fifty years growing out the back. :)

    You're living the dream :)
    What part of France out of curiosity? We'd consider either Spain or France, or pretty much anywhere in southern Europe. Doesn't have to be Ireland.


  • #226
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Oh, I certainly don't think that investing for retirement is a waste of money. But doing something like investing in a property you intend to 'live in', in 20 or 30 years time, is.

    The idea of saving for retirement is very important in almost all situations, e.g. when you're basically resigned to a fate of working until your early 60s in a single country and you need to maximize tax-efficiency, and you do that by locking your money away in a retirement account for x years.

    I don't save for "retirement" per se. But I am building towards financial independence at a very aggressive rate. I think the concepts of "retirement" and "financial independence" are different in that they have different connotations and function differently. And for some expats - like me for instance, and possibly CelticRambler - it makes far more sense to aim for the latter rather than the former.


  • #227
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,890 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Oh, I certainly don't think that investing for retirement is a waste of money. But doing something like investing in a property you intend to 'live in', in 20 or 30 years time, is.

    If you feel property is an unattractive investment, then I completely agree with you. My point was one of 'rational' investment as opposed to 'sentimental' investment, that you'll often get.

    Bad phrasing on my part. I do agree that it's too much of a crystal-ball prediction to sink your disposable income (i.e. what you can afford to contribute to a pension fund) into a place that you think you might want to live in at some point twenty or thirty years in the future.
    FURET wrote: »
    The idea of saving for retirement is very important in almost all situations, e.g. when you're basically resigned to a fate of working until your early 60s in a single country and you need to maximize tax-efficiency, and you do that by locking your money away in a retirement account for x years.

    But putting cash into any other investment is also risky. You can't take it with you to the next world, but you can't be sure either that you're going to be able to get it back in this one, even if you know where you're going to be when you formally "retire".
    FURET wrote: »
    I don't save for "retirement" per se. But I am building towards financial independence at a very aggressive rate. I think the concepts of "retirement" and "financial independence" are different in that they have different connotations and function differently. And for some expats - like me for instance, and possibly CelticRambler - it makes far more sense to aim for the latter rather than the former.

    Yeah, I think we're on a similar wavelength there. The idea of stopping work just because you've hit an arbitrarily decided birthday makes no sense to me, hasn't done for a long time. My decision to move to France (instead of returning to Ireland) was made with that in mind - cold financial reality more than dream ;) - and even though I've thoroughly reviewed the situation a decade later, now that the family has grown up, it still makes no financial sense for me to return to Ireland.
    FURET wrote: »
    What part of France out of curiosity?
    Bang in the middle. Draw a line from Paris to Toulouse and I'm half-way along it (only a day's drive from Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Luxembourg, Belgium, the Netherlands or England :cool: )


  • #228
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    FURET wrote: »
    I don't save for "retirement" per se. But I am building towards financial independence at a very aggressive rate.
    Probably a better way of thinking of it. After all, who knows if retirement, or more correctly pensions, will even exist in any meaningful manner in another few decades.

    And honestly, who wants to really 'retire'? I'd rather continue working, at something I enjoy, without the pressure that it has to support me financially. If I 'retired' I suspect I'd be dead within 18 months.


  • #229
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Am in Switzerland almost a year. Giving serious consideration to heading back home.

    One the one hand, the quality of life and range of activities for the kids is incredible and I feel lucky to have been able to get the chance to live here.

    On the other hand, I just don't know if I will ever be able to settle. I will always be an "auslander" and you are treated differently.

    I'm not particularly enthused about moving back to Ireland when I think of the reasons I left for. It's definitely a first world problem. Ireland and Switzerland are probably both in the top 10 countries on earth for quality of life but I can't stop focusing on the negatives of both countries :(


  • #230
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    keith16 wrote: »
    On the other hand, I just don't know if I will ever be able to settle. I will always be an "auslander" and you are treated differently.
    You will find that anywhere outside of where your were born and grew up. And that includes withing a country; here someone from Bern living in Zurich will always be seen as a bit of an outsider too. Just as someone from Limerick will still be hearing stab city jokes in Dublin twenty five years after moving there.

    However, it is possible to be accepted in Switzerland - be offered a seat at the Stammtisch, as it were. Hard work at first, but it can be done in my experience. I didn't crack that nut until I was here two years.


  • #231
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    But putting cash into any other investment is also risky. You can't take it with you to the next world, but you can't be sure either that you're going to be able to get it back in this one, even if you know where you're going to be when you formally "retire".

    "Risky" is a slippery word. Most people think it means "I might lose it all". To mature investors, it simply means "I might not get my expected growth of 8% per year".

    I just buy the whole market using Vanguard ETFs. I put the largest share of my equity holdings into the top 520 European businesses. I put another chunk into the top 500 US businesses. And I put a sliver into around 1000 businesses in emerging markets. I keep my age in high-quality short-term bond ETFs, and I rebalance annually. My total costs are 0.125% per year vs. 1.5% for an Irish Life pension, so I am certain to outperform an Irish pension of that type. Historically, a portfolio like mine has gained 8% per year back-tested 100 years, over 20-year periods. I have no fear whatsoever about losing it all; for that to happen, stock markets globally would need to go to zero, in which case, we'd all have far bigger problems.

    So my philosophy is to get my fair share of what the market returns - nothing more. For instance, an investment portfolio of just 1.5M should yield 45K per year in dividends, topped up by a modest withdrawal rate, underscored by a minimalist, debt-free life style, supplemented by occasional short-term work-from-home contracts and a photography business on the side. Summers in Europe, winters in the tropics. Sorted. The vicissitudes of life may of course have something to say about that, but with a well thought out plan and of course a plan B in your pocket, you're unlikely to go too far wrong.


  • Advertisement
  • #232
    Ruu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,622 ✭✭✭Ruu


    Such a great thread! We are also on the road home. Herselfs family are not in the greatest of health and she will have to deal with a complicated will, house, money and several pieces of land. We both have good jobs, she is in with a big university and I am with a large public library (I do okay considering I don't have a degree and don't do well in that type of learning).

    Have a few bills in my name in Ireland, how else do you go about establishing residency (easily to start with) again?


  • #233
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    Ruu wrote: »
    Have a few bills in my name in Ireland, how else do you go about establishing residency (easily to start with) again?

    Like so: http://www.revenue.ie/en/personal/circumstances/moving/tax-residence.html#sec1
    Your residence status for tax purposes is determined by the number of days that you are present in Ireland in a tax year. You will be resident in Ireland for a tax year in either of the following circumstances:
    • If you spend 183 days or more in Ireland during a tax year or,
    • If you spend 280 days or more in Ireland over a period of two consecutive tax years, you will be regarded as resident for the second tax year. For example, if you spend 140 days here in Year 1 and 150 days here in Year 2, you will be resident in Ireland for Year 2.

    ....

    Can I elect to be resident?

    Yes. Should you arrive in Ireland in a particular year and you do not spend enough days here to be resident, you may, if you wish, elect to be resident. A condition of making the election is that you must satisfy your local Revenue office, that you will be resident here in the following tax year. You should also be aware that once you have made an election, you cannot withdraw it.

    As a resident you will be liable to pay tax on your worldwide income in Ireland. For further details see Booklet Res. 1 Coming to Live in Ireland.


  • #234
    iusedtoknow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭iusedtoknow


    FURET wrote: »

    I don't save for "retirement" per se. But I am building towards financial independence at a very aggressive rate. I think the concepts of "retirement" and "financial independence" are different in that they have different connotations and function differently. And for some expats - like me for instance, and possibly CelticRambler - it makes far more sense to aim for the latter rather than the former.

    Same here, I have lived in 3 countries over the last 10 years and as such will not have a pension pot of particular value anywhere. The 401K here in the US is my most valuable, and I only took that as my company matches 10% of my gross if I save that much. We also have a mixture of vanguard stocks and I was lucky enough to have invested in apple before the split :D. We have an apartment in Barcelona that my wife got in an inheritance, which we rent out long term which by the time we paid taxes etc still works out OK for us. The important thing is tbh that we've provided a home for people that needed it in a bind - it isn't an "investment" for us.

    But aside from that, we aren't focussed too much on retirement. We know it's a long way off and between my own career and my wife's - it's going to be a bit of a twisty road (in a nice way).

    Personally..I'd like to work till mid 60's and then live off the 401k somewhere in Spain (Seville or Malaga) and work a bit here and there. Of course - that is 30 years away yet - have a lot of living to do before then.


  • #235
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    iusedtoknow wrote: »
    Personally..I'd like to work till mid 60's and then live off the 401k somewhere in Spain (Seville or Malaga) and work a bit here and there. Of course - that is 30 years away yet - have a lot of living to do before then.
    Of course, and sorry for the cynicism, the best way to improve your chances of being able to do that is to never marry.


  • #236
    Alun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,486 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    iusedtoknow wrote: »
    Same here, I have lived in 3 countries over the last 10 years and as such will not have a pension pot of particular value anywhere.
    Agreed. We've lived in 4 different countries (so far!) and are in the same kind of boat. A big problem is that often investments taken out while in one country have tax advantages that can only be realised when actually retiring in that country, and it's difficult to find a definitive answer from anyone how that will all work out in practice when we do retire (wherever that may be), which is looming closer as I speak.


  • #237
    iusedtoknow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭iusedtoknow


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Of course, and sorry for the cynicism, the best way to improve your chances of being able to do that is to never marry.

    ? - the wife will actually overtake my salary in about 2 years. I've capped (at least here in the US, until I move into upper management). If anything her frugality coupled with the luck we've had in the market in the past couple of years could get us there sooner. Our 401K investments don't mature until we get to 59 1/2.

    Her own dream is to be a local family doctor in southern spain and work till her 70's. I'd be happy teaching english a couple of days a week and being able to travel around a bit.


  • #238
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    Yes, I have to say, if you marry someone who is good with money and budgeting and the union is an emotionally happy one, nothing will stop you. I'm similarly lucky - my wife is very frugal and sensible. Millionaire Next Door is a famous study of millionaires in the US - in all cases where a family became first generation wealthy, it was entirely a team effort.

    That said, woe betide the man or woman who marries someone who doesn't know how to set a budget or prioritize expenditure - especially if you're an expat without the safety net of social security.


  • #239
    statina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭statina


    Currently living abroad but will be moving home in the next few months. Primarily for family and friends and putting down roots, where I am feels very transient.

    Furet, I am thinking along your lines and am saving really hard to be financially independent.

    I am new to the world of investing but have heard a lot about Vanguard. Do you have any suggestions of books for a newbie to read on investing?


  • #240
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    statina wrote: »
    Currently living abroad but will be moving home in the next few months. Primarily for family and friends and putting down roots, where I am feels very transient.

    Furet, I am thinking along your lines and am saving really hard to be financially independent.

    I am new to the world of investing but have heard a lot about Vanguard. Do you have any suggestions of books for a newbie to read on investing?

    The Global Expatriate's Guide to Investing by Andrew Hallam. Only book of its type, rock solid advice and sources, and very easy to read and understand. But best to hold off investing on these terms if you're about to repatriate.


  • Advertisement
  • #241
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Yeah you need to be super careful about these things. Lots of people have been caught out by German tax authorities after investing in non German domiciled ETFs. The tax treatment of your investments can vary wildly from country to country.


  • #242
    Anachrony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 286 ✭✭Anachrony


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    If I could live in Santa Barbara or Monterey in CA without worrying about the water shortage, I'd jump at that.

    Bah, water. We have enough water for human usage. It's not like people are dehydrated and unable to bathe. Their large, formerly green lawns are browning up, and that's it. Unless you're a farmer you'll be fine. Are you a farmer? If not that's hardly a reason not to live somewhere.

    We're also un-mothballing our desalination plant and expanding greywater use for landscaping. Longer term there are other infrastructure improvements we can invest in to make more efficient use of the water we have if conditions persist. Which they may not with the El Nino pattern shaping up this year.

    If you want a reason not to live here it's that we have some of the least affordable real estate in the US relative to income. Property values here are comparable to some of the most expensive urban areas, but unlike those cities, our job market here is nothing special. The ratio between income and home value is terrible. On the other hand, there's a reason for that, and it's that people want to live here.


  • #243
    keithclancy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,208 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    On the Growing old part, Ireland in my opinion is fairly awful place to do it.

    I know good few people that have been financially well off, but the problem wasn't money, it was the infrastructure and services. Eventually when you get to a stage of not being able to drive anymore you have to rely on Taxis or non existent buses.

    Or if you are unable to function by yourself in your home anymore you need to pay for home help.

    If you start to have mental problems the facilities are not great either.

    In the Netherlands they have a staged system of being independent for as long as possible, with home care, then group facilities in the neighborhood where people come from that are more like normal apartments than facilities.

    People can get reliable public transport to anywhere they want to go and have access to excellent healthcare to boot.

    Even the topic of Euthanasia is an option, if you are at a point where your quality of life isn't there anymore you can choose your time yourself rather than suffer in a bed for a long time.

    And there are also places like Hogewey for people that suffer from Dementia for example:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AlzheimersCommunity/alzheimers-disease-dutch-village-dubbed-truman-show-dementia/story?id=16103780

    After seeing some of the Mental Health and Care homes in Ireland the one I did see were pretty rubbish.

    Maybe I'm just a bit cynical since I've had a few funerals recently but thats my two cents anyway.

    In short Ireland is one of the last places I would want to live out my final years in.


  • #244
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Anachrony wrote: »
    Bah, water. We have enough water for human usage. It's not like people are dehydrated and unable to bathe. Their large, formerly green lawns are browning up, and that's it. Unless you're a farmer you'll be fine. Are you a farmer? If not that's hardly a reason not to live somewhere.

    We're also un-mothballing our desalination plant and expanding greywater use for landscaping. Longer term there are other infrastructure improvements we can invest in to make more efficient use of the water we have if conditions persist. Which they may not with the El Nino pattern shaping up this year.

    If you want a reason not to live here it's that we have some of the least affordable real estate in the US relative to income. Property values here are comparable to some of the most expensive urban areas, but unlike those cities, our job market here is nothing special. The ratio between income and home value is terrible. On the other hand, there's a reason for that, and it's that people want to live here.

    I should have said the water coupled with the cost. I wouldn't want to pay to live somewhere with those kinds of restrictions. I have a lot of family in Florida they have Water restrictions from time to time too. It always seemed inconvenient.

    Also the traffic is pretty terrible and although I like the beaches around Santa Barbara and the town part is pretty nice it kind of reminds me of Scottsdale, AZ or Bellevue, WA...nice but pretty pretentious and sort of so clean, it's kind of fake. The hanging lights along the main street. It really is beautiful and I would be fine with living there but it doesn't feel all that genuine. Much nicer than Malibu. There's no work for me around Santa Barbara.

    Monterey is beautiful but there's no work for me there. I'd have to commute to Silicon Valley.

    The California drivers are real pr1cks. Even in other states they are just the worst. You've got the threat of Earthquakes too...but sounds like Washington and Oregon have that too which is a shame because the Pacific Coast line is amazing.

    I really love Hawaii too but cost with the threat of natural disasters and being stuck over in the middle of the Pacific is a bit daunting. Also in Hawaii...driving at 35 mph all the time would drive me crazy.


  • #245
    Suaimhneach
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 4,436 Mod ✭✭✭✭Suaimhneach


    @keithclancy, I think a lot of what you're saying is important, but you cant live your life now (somewhere between 20-50?) planning for when you're 70, right? I mean, ABSOLUTELY, plan and consider it, but dont make life decisions based on something that may or may not happen in 40 years?

    I'm in the Bay Area and recently went to a Baby Shower (my first!) in Atherton - now there is a place where money and (no) water restrictions and the "America Dream" have gone wild. It was like someone had a cheat code in a Sims plot. Gorgeous, but surreal.

    I think a lot of the small gorgeous towns along highway 1 are 100% pretentious, but that's because they're intentionally designed that way. It's a weird place to live.


  • #246
    Anachrony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 286 ✭✭Anachrony


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Also the traffic is pretty terrible

    Traffic? Really? Are you sure you aren't confusing it with LA? Downtown Santa Barbara has a walk score of 100%, and has everything you need within about two miles. And even the furthest flung suburbs are only about 15 minutes from the furthest suburbs on the opposite side of town.

    I've never heard anyone who has spent much time here complain about traffic. If you commute to or from another community maybe, there are bottlenecks on the highway during rush hour. But if you live within the community it's really not hard to get around. It takes me about 5 minutes to drive to my office in the heart of downtown, and I never face traffic issues.

    I can see a tourist having trouble with traffic, because they don't know where to drive. But it's not hard to learn, and most of the town does not have traffic issues. Don't drive on State Street or along the beach, basically. That's it. You drive on the big one way streets parallel to State Street, park in one of the convenient public lots near your destination, get out and walk. For the beach, park and walk; don't cruise down that one street more than necessary. Even if you do spend all your time at the beach (which you probably wouldn't if you were living your regular life rather than vacationing), you'll learn other beaches that are much less crowded and don't have congested streets.

    Earthquakes are another thing that always concern people who don't actually live here way more than Californians. Not a big impact on quality of life. Most modern construction can handle the sort of earthquake you are likely to encounter, and most of the buildings are only 1 or 2 stories anyway. Wildfire is a concern, but mostly limited to certain areas up in the hills on the periphery of the community.


  • Advertisement
  • #247
    iusedtoknow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭iusedtoknow


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    The California drivers are real pr1cks. Even in other states they aYou've got the threat of Earthquakes too...but sounds like Washington and Oregon have that too which is a shame because the Pacific Coast line is amazing.

    I really love Hawaii too but cost with the threat of natural disasters and being stuck over in the middle of the Pacific is a bit daunting. Also in Hawaii...driving at 35 mph all the time would drive me crazy.

    Sure there is a threat of earthquakes but in the 3 years I've lived here, we've had 3 jolts, the last one being last Sunday which was 3.3 and about 14 miles away off the golden gate - if I hadn't have felt the vibration before the shake, I'd have thought it was my neighbor moving furniture.


  • #248
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    I'd never felt an earthquake before that October 17th evening in 1989 when the 7.1 hit in Santa Cruz.

    Its the aftershocks that really mess with you... over 90 smaller earthquakes (over 3.0) in the following three weeks. You never knew if/which one was going to be another really fcuking huge one.

    Then I moved to Seattle just in time to be in a 6.8 earthquake. No aftershocks on that one thank god. Of course the entire pacific coast is lined with active volcanoes. The last one blew in 1980, killed 58 people.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Volcanoes


  • #249
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Anachrony wrote: »
    Traffic? Really? Are you sure you aren't confusing it with LA? Downtown Santa Barbara has a walk score of 100%, and has everything you need within about two miles. And even the furthest flung suburbs are only about 15 minutes from the furthest suburbs on the opposite side of town.

    I've never heard anyone who has spent much time here complain about traffic. If you commute to or from another community maybe, there are bottlenecks on the highway during rush hour. But if you live within the community it's really not hard to get around. It takes me about 5 minutes to drive to my office in the heart of downtown, and I never face traffic issues.

    I can see a tourist having trouble with traffic, because they don't know where to drive. But it's not hard to learn, and most of the town does not have traffic issues. Don't drive on State Street or along the beach, basically. That's it. You drive on the big one way streets parallel to State Street, park in one of the convenient public lots near your destination, get out and walk. For the beach, park and walk; don't cruise down that one street more than necessary. Even if you do spend all your time at the beach (which you probably wouldn't if you were living your regular life rather than vacationing), you'll learn other beaches that are much less crowded and don't have congested streets.

    Earthquakes are another thing that always concern people who don't actually live here way more than Californians. Not a big impact on quality of life. Most modern construction can handle the sort of earthquake you are likely to encounter, and most of the buildings are only 1 or 2 stories anyway. Wildfire is a concern, but mostly limited to certain areas up in the hills on the periphery of the community.

    I guess if you can live and work in that area it would be fine. I've driven up there twice. Been snagged in awful traffic on the Pacific Coast Highway and the...I want to I-10..might be wrong on that, though.

    I like the Californian employees rights a lot more than other states. I'll give it that.

    I know what you say about the beach. I've had a pool at my beckon call right under my balcony for 4 years. I've been in it twice.

    We get wildfires here and crime...lots and lots of violent crime. Which I know is a problem in parts of California too..the parts I could probably afford! Most people I know in Phoenix moved from California or New England.


  • #250
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Suaimhneach wrote: »
    @keithclancy, I think a lot of what you're saying is important, but you cant live your life now (somewhere between 20-50?) planning for when you're 70, right? I mean, ABSOLUTELY, plan and consider it, but dont make life decisions based on something that may or may not happen in 40 years?

    I'm in the Bay Area and recently went to a Baby Shower (my first!) in Atherton - now there is a place where money and (no) water restrictions and the "America Dream" have gone wild. It was like someone had a cheat code in a Sims plot. Gorgeous, but surreal.

    I think a lot of the small gorgeous towns along highway 1 are 100% pretentious, but that's because they're intentionally designed that way. It's a weird place to live.

    The class system is plain to see here too. You see homeless people getting rushed out of Scottsdale and left to their own volition in downtown Phoenix or Tempe..it's a strange one


  • #251
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Anachrony wrote: »
    Bah, water. We have enough water for human usage. It's not like people are dehydrated and unable to bathe.

    The south west is in year four of a historic drought.

    Betting on El Nino this winter is serious desperation at this point.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement