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Once saved always saved is a false doctrine..
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Not sure.OSas is the number One Doctrine of Devils to Undermine the Fear of God,
Jesus said you MUST be born again. MUST. and no doubt about it!!!
"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". John 3vs3
Many church folk, from the pulpit to the back door, who are living in all sorts of unrepentant sin and iniquity who say they are born again. I say are living proof of the dirty lie of OSAS. OSAS sells, thats why so many churches buy it!. Chances are you bought it too!!
1 John 2:3-4 And hereby WE do KNOW that we KNOW HIM, IF (IF, IF, IF) we KEEP HIS commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.0 -
This verse refers to the use of a tree as a Totem Idol......and as I do not adore my Christmas tree nor permit others to do so.......
.......it is therefore NEITHER a Totem nor an Idol......but merely a decoration!!!!
However, an Ank is a pagan symbol used in the worship of pagan deities by the ancient Egyptians and by some modern 'mystery cults'......which puts it into a totally different category to a Christmas tree!!!
But your Christmas tree is a phallic symbol, it is not Christian and neither is Christmas for that matter. Christ was not born on the 25th of December so why do you celebrate it then? And if it is not Christ's birth you are celebrating then what is it and why the tree?......perhaps you didn't realise what an Ank was when you chose it as your avator???
Perhaps, but that’s besides the point at this stage of the argument. You seem to be implying that I advocate the Ank as a pagan symbol to be worshipped. If so then where have I advocated the worship of the Ank as a pagan symbol more than you have of the Christmas tree? You think the Christmas tree is a decorative thing as do I of the Ank. What’s the difference? The Christmas tree is a phallic symbol and has nothing to with the birth of Christ as does the Ank but the Christmas tree is ok but the Ank isn’t?.....you ARE joking.....I assume!!!
No I am not joking. I hate self-righteous people. So does God.Could I gently point out that hatred should have no place in a Christian's heart........and especially NOT hatred towards fellow Christians.
Hatred of the right things has a place though. God hates plenty of things.
For instance:
Deuteronomy 9:28
…'Because the LORD was not able to take them into the land he had promised them, and because he hated them, he brought them out to put them to death in the desert.'
Proverbs 6:16
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Revelation 2:6
But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
David also hated people:
Psalm 31:6
I hate those who cling to worthless idols; I trust in the LORD.
If a self-righteous person were a so called fellow Christian then I would not be a Christian. A Christian is someone who follows Christ, puts their trust in Christ, is like Christ. What makes someone self-righteous is the fact that they trust in their own righteousness rather than God’s. This proves they are not my brothers. Some of these self-righteous ones call themselves Christians but they are not. They give lip service to God but worship the creature. They are false brethren. Read what kind and loving words Paul used here and what he wished the false brethren who came in unawares to the saints at Galatia compelling them to be circumcised would do:
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!......sounds like the 'cure' could be significantly worse than the 'disease'!!!:eek:
I disagree. As bad as a the cure might be I think the disease is much worse.
......and the following verses of Scripture also come to mind:
Eph 5:11-13 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Reprove?
Reprove from Dictionnary.com:
1. to criticize or correct, esp. gently: to reprove a pupil for making a mistake.
2. to disapprove of strongly; censure: to reprove a bad decision.
3. Obsolete. to disprove or refute.
–verb (used without object) 4. to speak in reproof; administer a reproof.
To voice or convey disapproval of; rebuke. See Synonyms at admonish.
To find fault with.
—Synonyms 1. scold, reprimand, upbraid, chide, reprehend, admonish. See reproach.
—Antonyms 1. praise......could I gently remind you that MY position is that that fleshy works (of either sin or virtue) will NOT save or condemn anybody.......because the saved are OSAS and the unsaved are.......er.. UNSAVED!!!!:D
I think I pointed out clearly enough in my other response that the OSAS is a false doctrine. We are only Always Saved when we make it home. We have to make it there first though. It is like a man running a 100m sprint race. He is not awarded the status of having finished the race until he crosses the line. He could run 99% of the way and fall inches from the line and the guy behind him would pinch the prize. All analogies break down but you get my drift I think.......could I gently point out that saying 'I do' once to my wife DID pass muster with God as a binding life-long commitment between myself and her......
......so why shouldn't saying 'I believe on You' once ALSO pass muster with God as a binding eternal commitment between myself and Jesus Christ????
You’re vows are valid to you wife but imagine how she would feel if you never expressed another thing to her or vice versa until death did you part? She needs to know time and again that you love her. Plus people do renew their vows in marriage. And it is also possible to be married to somebody who you don’t love anymore or who you actually hate. It happens all the time. You start out loving them and committing to them and then after a few years you fall out of love with them for whatever reason or they fall out of love with you and although you are still legally married your marriage is meaningless because the love is gone. God hates divorce but He’d rather that than a bad marriage. Commitment to God is the same. Yesterday’s faith will be of no benefit to you in eternity if you lose faith it today. We must re-commit ourselves to God daily. The once saved always saved doctrine is what is wrong in the Church. It has become a vehicle of pride. Nobody has a right to say that they are saved until they are actually saved out of this world. Once you are still here it is possible to fall away and the only thing that can stop that from happening is daily faith action on God’s promises which puts His power in you, and once you are doing that you can safely say that you are “being” saved.0 -
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Run_to_da_hills wrote: »OSas is the number One Doctrine of Devils to Undermine the Fear of God,
Jesus said you MUST be born again. MUST. and no doubt about it!!!
"Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". John 3vs3
Many church folk, from the pulpit to the back door, who are living in all sorts of unrepentant sin and iniquity who say they are born again. I say are living proof of the dirty lie of OSAS. OSAS sells, thats why so many churches buy it!. Chances are you bought it too!!
1 John 2:3-4 And hereby WE do KNOW that we KNOW HIM, IF (IF, IF, IF) we KEEP HIS commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
You are confusing the ONCE OFF nature of Salvation .......with unsaved hypocrites who claim to be "saved" ....but whose openly sinful lives clearly denies their salvation!!!!:eek:
I have 'bought nothing' except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.......and could I clarify, lest there be ANY doubt ......that I DON'T live an openly sinful life.........and I DO keep the Commandments........
.......but I equally don't deny that I am a sinner saved by Jesus Christ through NO merit on my part!!!
......look.....outwardly keeping the 10 Commandmnents is 'easy paesey'......for anybody indwelt by the Holy Spirit.......
......but we should never forget that we are ALL occupying inwardly SINFUL BODIES.......and THAT is how we will remain until we die and are granted glorious bodies by God...after the Rapture!!!!:eek::D
.......and the number one 'Doctrine of Devils' is the idea that Salvation is impossible/useless/time enough.......which is the LOGICAL conclusion from a denial of OSAS!!!!
They will be unable to discern Spirits and will be effectively unable to correctly interpret Scripture.....which is SPIRITUALLY discerned!!!0 -
Not sure.
No I am not, I am referring to the once saved individuals that were once enlightened but still attend "church" just for the sake of being there.You are confusing the ONCE OFF nature of Salvation .......with unsaved hypocrites who claim to be "saved" ....but whose openly sinful lives clearly denies their salvation!!!!:eek:.
I well believe you are saved and have held strong to your faith but the Bible says umpteen times and gives plenty of examples of those that will "fall away" and will suffer the consequences in hellfire.I have 'bought nothing' except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.......and could I clarify, lest there be ANY doubt ......that I DON'T live an openly sinful life.........and I DO keep the Commandments........
.......but I equally don't deny that I am a sinner saved by Jesus Christ through NO merit on my part!!!:.
Only to those that endure to the time of the "rapture" as you say. Those that have backslidden and have fallen away will have to face the great tribulation. Failing this they will end up burning in hell along with the rest of mankind that reject Christ.......look.....outwardly keeping the 10 Commandmnents is 'easy paesey'......for anybody indwelt by the Holy Spirit.......
......but we should never forget that we are ALL occupying inwardly SINFUL BODIES.......and THAT is how we will remain until we die and are granted glorious bodies by God...after the Rapture!!!!:eek::D!!!:.
Satan will do anything in his power to gain as many souls as possible, he will even go as far as to invent a counterfeit Christian religion and decieve approximitally 1.1 Billion souls...and the number one 'Doctrine of Devils' is the idea that Salvation is impossible/useless/time enough.......which is the LOGICAL conclusion from a denial of OSAS!!!! !!!:.
For those like your self that have found the truth in the scriptures he will lie and try to make you believe you will always be saved even if you fall back and commit the most vilest of sins and die in that unrepentant state.
According to your logic if someone picks up a gospel tract off the street and gets "saved" from reading it they are guaranteed a ticket to Heaven. If so why bother read the Bible?,
The process of salvation is only beginning at this stage and is up to that person to battle it to the very end by learning of Satans tricks which can only be found in scripture.
If your logic is true why is there so much in the bible that would be "irrelivant" to those like your self that claim to be "holier than thou" that think they can escape eternal damnation for the same sins that that those that were not enlightened committ. You might as well rip your bible apart and just keep the pages are suited as most of it would be totally irrevilant.
I believe the Initial call of salvation is only the beginning. Many evangilists fail on this one and end up sending their new converts to spiritual shipwreck by sending them back again to their apostate churches.0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Soul Winner
But your Christmas tree is a phallic symbol, it is not Christian and neither is Christmas for that matter. Christ was not born on the 25th of December so why do you celebrate it then? And if it is not Christ's birth you are celebrating then what is it and why the tree?
……so WHAT date WAS Jesus Christ born on then??
The Bible is SILENT about the date of Christ’s birth…..but the Gospels of Matthew and Luke go into significant detail on the conception and birth of Jesus Christ.
Lk 1:26 records the conception of Jesus Christ as “in the sixth month” or the Jewish month of Elui, which corresponds to the months of August/September.......
On that basis, Jesus would have been born in May/June of the following year…..rather than 25th December or the 6th January.
......and I suppose the Skeptics and Atheists would level similar ‘Pagan Origins’ accusations IF Christians were to celebrate Christ's birth on 25th June, instead of 25th December!!!!
A similar controversy surrounds the observation of the Sabbath on Sunday……because the day that the Fourth Commandment commands us to keep holy was historically observed on Saturday!!!!
All mainstream Western Christian Churches have determined that the birth of Jesus Christ should be celebrated every year on 25th December (and the 6th January in the case of the Eastern Right Churches) and they have also determined that the Sabbath should be observed every seven days on a Sunday.
Please note that the Churches are NOT saying that the 25th December or the 6th January is the ANNIVERSARY of Jesus Christ's birth....they are merely the dates chosen to CELEBRATE the fact of His birth!!!
Could I point out that it is within the authority of individual churches to determine such matters, as no Biblical doctrines are infringed by them.
I personally adhere to celebrating Christ’s birth on 25th December and I observe the Sabbath on Sunday.
You, of course, are free to celebrate Christmas arbitrarily during the months of May or June, if you so wish ……and if you also wish to observe the Sabbath every Monday….then so be it as well.
However, you may find that your celebration/observation of these dates will be somewhat ‘lonely’ and without much fellowship from other Christians…..but don’t let that stop you!!!!:)
Originally Posted by J C
......perhaps you didn't realise what an Ank was when you chose it as your avator???
Soul Winner
Perhaps, but that’s besides the point at this stage of the argument. You seem to be implying that I advocate the Ank as a pagan symbol to be worshipped. If so then where have I advocated the worship of the Ank as a pagan symbol more than you have of the Christmas tree? You think the Christmas tree is a decorative thing as do I of the Ank. What’s the difference?
I am not implying anything about your attitude towards the Ank.
I am simply drawing your attention to the fact thet the Ank is a Pagan SYMBOL …….
......and a Christmas tree is a decorated TREE……..
......so, the Ank is an occult symbol ......while the Christmas Tree is ..........a decoration!!!!:):eek:
Soul Winner
The Christmas tree is a phallic symbol and has nothing to with the birth of Christ as does the Ank but the Christmas tree is ok but the Ank isn’t?
The (occult) Theosophy Dictionary defines an Ank as follows:-
"Ank, Ankh (Egyptian) The symbol of life in ancient Egypt, represented as the tau-cross surmounted by a circle, and often called Crux Ansata. Usually placed in the hand of every representation of god or goddess; likewise in the hand of the initiant, and again on the mummy."
The Crux Ansata, by combining the masculine TAU with the feminine oval, exemplifies the principles of sexual generation ……..and is used by occultists to represent the sexual union of the male phallus with the female uterus.
According to Freud, phallic symbols are many and varied. They range from telegraph poles to microphones and pens……and possibly Christmas Trees......basically anything that is ‘long and vertical’.
Occultists however, are VERY SPECIFIC about what they deem to have phallic significance …..and their primary phallic symbol is the Obelisk.
...and the Ank is the occult symbol for the 'life giving' sex act…….
......so you are using an occult symbol for sex as your avatar!!!!:eek:
Originally Posted by Soul Winner
Yes. I hate self righteous people especially self righteous Christians and if a statue of Baphomet is the only thing that will keep them out of my house then that's who I will erect.
Originally Posted by J C
.....you ARE joking.....I assume!!!
Soul Winner
No I am not joking. I hate self-righteous people. So does God.
..........AMAZING!!!!:eek:
......and BTW a statue of Baphomet will not necessarily put off Christians.......they have full powers to rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus Christ, wherever they find him lurking!!
Originally Posted by J C
Could I gently point out that hatred should have no place in a Christian's heart........and especially NOT hatred towards fellow Christians.
Soul Winner
Hatred of the right things has a place though. God hates plenty of things.
For instance:
Deuteronomy 9:28
…'Because the LORD was not able to take them into the land he had promised them, and because he hated them, he brought them out to put them to death in the desert.'
Proverbs 6:16
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
Malachi 2:16
"I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Revelation 2:6
But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
David also hated people:
Psalm 31:6
I hate those who cling to worthless idols; I trust in the LORD.
Hatred of people should have no place in a Christian's heart........and especially NOT hatred towards fellow Christians
Christians LOVE the sinner ……but HATE the sin……
Soul Winner
If a self-righteous person were a so called fellow Christian then I would not be a Christian. A Christian is someone who follows Christ, puts their trust in Christ, is like Christ. What makes someone self-righteous is the fact that they trust in their own righteousness rather than God’s. This proves they are not my brothers. Some of these self-righteous ones call themselves Christians but they are not. They give lip service to God but worship the creature. They are false brethren. Read what kind and loving words Paul used here and what he wished the false brethren who came in unawares to the saints at Galatia compelling them to be circumcised would do:
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
The KJV version of the above verse doesn't talk of emasculation!!!
....it talks of 'cutting off' the false brethern......and NOT castrating them!!!:eek:
.....anyway, WHY do you appear to determine whether or not you would become a Christian on the basis of how you perceive nominal Christians behaving………..surely your decision to become a Christian should ONLY be based on whether you believe that Jesus Christ can save you?????
……equally your criticism of OSAS puts you somewhat within the ‘self-righteous camp’ YOURSELF!!!
……you tell Saved Christians that they will be judged on how many unrepented/unconfessed sins they have at their death ……and they will thus only be saved by their degree of righteousness at their death.......while you appear to deny that the saved are un-righteous sinners that are saved from sin by Jesus Christ!!!!
…..you obviously don't believe in circumcision in accordance with Jewish Law……..but you DO seem to believe in the application of Law (rather than Grace) when it come to sin !!!!0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Originally Posted by Soul Winner
Yes. I hate self righteous people especially self righteous Christians and if a statue of Baphomet is the only thing that will keep them out of my house then that's who I will erect.
Originally Posted by J C
......sounds like the 'cure' could be significantly worse than the 'disease'!!
Soul Winner
I disagree. As bad as the cure might be I think the disease is much worse.
AMAZING!!!!.:eek:
......you must REALLY dislike the self-righteous!!!!:eek:
Originally Posted by J C
.....and the following verses of Scripture also come to mind:
Eph 5:11-13 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Soul Winner
Reprove?
Reprove from Dictionnary.com:
1. to criticize or correct, esp. gently: to reprove a pupil for making a mistake.
2. to disapprove of strongly; censure: to reprove a bad decision.
3. Obsolete. to disprove or refute.
–verb (used without object) 4. to speak in reproof; administer a reproof.
To voice or convey disapproval of; rebuke. See Synonyms at admonish.
To find fault with.
—Synonyms 1. scold, reprimand, upbraid, chide, reprehend, admonish. See reproach.
—Antonyms 1. praise
……got it in one.......or was it three????!!!:eek:
Originally Posted by J C
......could I gently remind you that MY position is that that fleshy works (of either sin or virtue) will NOT save or condemn anybody.......because the saved are OSAS and the unsaved are.......er.. UNSAVED!!!
Soul Winner
I think I pointed out clearly enough in my other response that the OSAS is a false doctrine. We are only Always Saved when we make it home. We have to make it there first though. It is like a man running a 100m sprint race. He is not awarded the status of having finished the race until he crosses the line. He could run 99% of the way and fall inches from the line and the guy behind him would pinch the prize. All analogies break down but you get my drift I think.
………winning a 100 metre sprint requires MERIT, WORKS and EFFORT on our part…….
……..salvation is a FREE GIFT through God’s Grace…..and it therefore does NOT require any MERIT or WORKS and EFFORT on our part!!!!:cool:
.......living as Christian DOES require us to perform works and effort......to help OTHERS to come to Salvation!!!:D
Originally Posted by J C
......could I gently point out that saying 'I do' once to my wife DID pass muster with God as a binding life-long commitment between myself and her......
......so why shouldn't saying 'I believe on You' once ALSO pass muster with God as a binding eternal commitment between myself and Jesus Christ???
Soul Winner
You’re vows are valid to you wife but imagine how she would feel if you never expressed another thing to her or vice versa until death did you part? She needs to know time and again that you love her. Plus people do renew their vows in marriage. And it is also possible to be married to somebody who you don’t love anymore or who you actually hate. It happens all the time. You start out loving them and committing to them and then after a few years you fall out of love with them for whatever reason or they fall out of love with you and although you are still legally married your marriage is meaningless because the love is gone.
Could I gently point out that God regards the marriage as valid…….whether or not the two people involved continue to do so!!!!
Yes, we sinful Humans may fall in and out of love……..but Jesus Christ is constant……..and the Saved remain ETERNALLY saved!!!!
.......and the married remain married for life .......except in the case of adultery!!!!
Jesus highlights the ETERNAL difference between the Saved and the Unsaved in Jn 10:25-30.
Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness of Me.
But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them ETERNAL life, and they shall NEVER perish; neither shall ANYONE snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and NO ONE is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
I and My Father are one."
Soul Winner
Commitment to God is the same. Yesterday’s faith will be of no benefit to you in eternity if you lose faith it today. We must re-commit ourselves to God daily. The once saved always saved doctrine is what is wrong in the Church. It has become a vehicle of pride. Nobody has a right to say that they are saved until they are actually saved out of this world. Once you are still here it is possible to fall away and the only thing that can stop that from happening is daily faith action on God’s promises which puts His power in you, and once you are doing that you can safely say that you are “being” saved.
The unsaved are both legally and spiritually dead in God’s sight…….because they have inherited legal and spiritual death from Adam and Eve.
There is ETERNAL life in Jesus Christ and it is freely given TO ALL WHO COME FOR IT.....and are saved!!
To quote from C S Spurgeon :-
“There never was a man who came to Christ for eternal life, for legal life, for spiritual life, who had not already received it, in some sense, and it was manifested to him that he had received it soon after he came.
Let us take one or two texts - "He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto him." Every man who comes to Christ will find that Christ is able to save him—not able to save him a little, to deliver him from a little sin, to keep him from a little trial, to carry him a little way and then drop him—but able to save him to the uttermost extent of his sin, unto the uttermost length of his trials, the uttermost depths of his sorrows, unto the uttermost duration of his existence. Christ says to every one who comes to him, "Come, poor sinner, thou needst not ask whether I have power to save. I will not ask thee how far thou hast gone into sin; I am able to save thee to the uttermost." And there is no one on earth can go beyond God's "uttermost."
Now another text: "Him that cometh to me, [mark the promises are nearly always to the coming ones] I will in no wise cast out." Every man that comes shall find the door of Christ's house opened—and the door of his heart too. Every man that comes—I say it in the broadest sense—shall find that Christ has mercy for him. The greatest absurdity in the world is to want to have a wider gospel than that recorded in Scripture. I preach that every man who believes shall be saved—that every man who comes shall find mercy.
People ask me, "But suppose a man should come who was not chosen, would he be saved?" You go and suppose nonsense and I am not going to give you an answer. If a man is not chosen he will never come. When he does come it is a sure proof that he was chosen.
Says one, "Suppose any one should go to Christ who had not been called of the Spirit." Stop, my brother, that is a supposition thou hast no right to make, for such a thing cannot happen; you only say it to entangle me, and you will not do that just yet. I say every man who comes to Christ shall be saved.
I can say that as a Calvinist, or as a hyper-Calvinist, as plainly as you can say it. I have no narrower gospel than you have; only my gospel is on a solid foundation, whereas yours is built upon nothing but sand and rottenness. "Every man that cometh shall be saved, for no man cometh to me except the Father draw him."
"But," says one, "suppose all the world should come, would Christ receive them?" Certainly, if all came; but then they won't come. I tell you all that come—aye, if they were as bad as devils, Christ would receive them; if they had all sin and filthiness running into their hearts as into a common sewer for the whole world, Christ would receive them.
Another says, "I want to know about the rest of the people. May I go out and tell them—Jesus Christ died for every one of you? May I say—there is righteousness for everyone of you, there is life for every one of you?" No; you may not. You may say—there is life for every man that comes. But if you say there is life for one of those that do not believe, you utter a dangerous lie. If you tell them Jesus Christ was punished for their sins, and yet they will be lost, (after they come, and are saved) you tell a wilful falsehood.”0 -
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Originally Posted by J C
You are confusing the ONCE OFF nature of Salvation .......with unsaved hypocrites who claim to be "saved" ....but whose openly sinful lives clearly denies their salvation!!!.
Run to da hills
No I am not, I am referring to the once saved individuals that were once enlightened but still attend "church" just for the sake of being there.
Obviously you are entitled to your opinion……but people, such as those described above, were probably NEVER saved!!!!:)
Originally Posted by J C
I have 'bought nothing' except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.......and could I clarify, lest there be ANY doubt ......that I DON'T live an openly sinful life.........and I DO keep the Commandments........
.......but I equally don't deny that I am a sinner saved by Jesus Christ through NO merit on my part!!!:.
Run to da hills
I well believe you are saved and have held strong to your faith but the Bible says umpteen times and gives plenty of examples of those that will "fall away" and will suffer the consequences in hellfire.
Such an idea is un-Biblical
For example Jesus Himself said in Jn 27-30
My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand.
…….and Heb 10:14-17 puts the issue (that the saved are saved forever) beyond all doubt:-
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Originally Posted by J C
......look.....outwardly keeping the 10 Commandmnents is 'easy paesey'......for anybody indwelt by the Holy Spirit.......
......but we should never forget that we are ALL occupying inwardly SINFUL BODIES.......and THAT is how we will remain until we die and are granted glorious bodies by God...after the Rapture!!!!!!:.
Run to da hills
Only to those that endure to the time of the "rapture" as you say. Those that have backslidden and have fallen away will have to face the great tribulation. Failing this they will end up burning in hell along with the rest of mankind that reject Christ.
……and WHY do you believe that ANY of the Saved “will end up burning in hell along with the rest of mankind that reject Christ”……when they have NOT rejected Jesus Christ ….and the Saved have actually BELIEVED ON HIM?????
Originally Posted by J C
..and the number one 'Doctrine of Devils' is the idea that Salvation is impossible/useless/time enough.......which is the LOGICAL conclusion from a denial of OSAS!!!! !!
Run to da hills
Satan will do anything in his power to gain as many souls as possible
Satan is indeed capable of almost anything……
……BUT the eternal destiny of the Saved is NO LONGER in the power of Satan…….they are under the protection of the hand of God and NO ONE, including Satan is able to snatch them out of it!!!!:)
......the 'tables are turned'.....and it is the Saved who have the power to rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus Christ!!!
Run to da hills
……..he (Satan) will even go as far as to invent a counterfeit Christian religion and decieve approximitally 1.1 Billion souls.
……there may be some ‘counterfeit Christians’…..but I can assure you they do not all belong to one denomination…….and there are ALSO many Saved Christians witnessing for Jesus Christ within EVERY Church!!!!:cool:
Run to da hills
For those like your self that have found the truth in the scriptures he will lie and try to make you believe you will always be saved even if you fall back and commit the most vilest of sins and die in that unrepentant state.
The Saved may sin.........but they will always be acutely aware that they are sinning......the prompting of the Holy Spirit of God is far stronger that anything that Satan can come up with!!!:D
…….once again you are confusing Salvation with sin!!!!
……….so which would you like to be……..an un-righteous SAVED sinner….
…….or and un-righteous UNSAVED sinner??????
Run to da hills
According to your logic if someone picks up a gospel tract off the street and gets "saved" from reading it they are guaranteed a ticket to Heaven.
YES!!!:D
Run to da hills
If so why bother read the Bible?,
You should do so because you love God and want to know Him better!!!!
Run to da hills
The process of salvation is only beginning at this stage and is up to that person to battle it to the very end by learning of Satans tricks which can only be found in scripture.
There is NO “process of salvation”……it is instantaneous……the moment you believe on Jesus Christ to save you.....you ARE Saved!!!
'Satans tricks' will only work on the unsaved……….who are not indwelt with the Holy Spirit…..and therefore DON’T have spiritual discernment!!!!
Run to da hills
If your logic is true why is there so much in the bible that would be "irrelivant" to those like your self that claim to be "holier than thou" that think they can escape eternal damnation for the same sins that that those that were not enlightened committ. You might as well rip your bible apart and just keep the pages are suited as most of it would be totally irrevilant.
HOW is somebody, like me, who claims to be an unworthy sinner saved by the blood of Jesus Christ through absolutely no merit on my part “holier than thou”……..wouldn’t “more sinful than thou” be a better descriptor of me????
......and WHICH parts of the Bible are irrelevant to the Saved?????
Run to da hills
I believe the Initial call of salvation is only the beginning. Many evangilists fail on this one and end up sending their new converts to spiritual shipwreck by sending them back again to their apostate churches.
The call to salvation must be ANSWERED……if you are to be saved!!!
Saved Christians will have no difficulties in remaining saved.....as they have Jesus Christ as their guarantor!!!!!!:)0 -
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Not sure.
I am at the point now where I find the OSAS teaching so repulsive that I cannot even listen to an OSAS preacher in a Church no matter what they are talking about.
Everything they say is tainted by this poisonous OSAS doctrine. Additionally, because they do not believe the Christian is in a Real Spiritual battle, they are more like game show hosts who are trying to keep their audience entertained rather than preaching the truth of Gods word.
Proof that OSAS is wrong from the Gospels
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-Gospels.html
Proof that OSAS is wrong from the book of James
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-1Tim-James.html
Proof that OSAS is wrong from Peter to Revelations.
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-Gospels.html
Corrections of the Misunderstandings of OSAS Scriptures
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-Corrections.html
The Way To Heaven, according to the Bible
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/.gif)
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.....and here is an answer to the question "can a saved person become lost?"
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t006.html
Tell me J C who is Jesus talking to when He says the following? The saved or the unsaved?
Matthew 5:13
"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.”
If the saved are the salt of the earth and if it was impossible for them to loose their savour then why would Jesus even mention it? Surely this verse alone puts pay to the OSAS false doctrine?
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.
I can understand how you might think OSAS permits people to live like demons and still go to heaven. But the historic expression of the saints' eternal security is quoted here by your Satan cartoon: The Perseverance of the Saints.Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
I am at the point now where I find the OSAS teaching so repulsive that I cannot even listen to an OSAS preacher in a Church no matter what they are talking about.
Everything they say is tainted by this poisonous OSAS doctrine. Additionally, because they do not believe the Christian is in a Real Spiritual battle, they are more like game show hosts who are trying to keep their audience entertained rather than preaching the truth of Gods word.
Proof that OSAS is wrong from the Gospels
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-Gospels.html
Proof that OSAS is wrong from the book of James
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-1Tim-James.html
Proof that OSAS is wrong from Peter to Revelations.
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-Gospels.html
Corrections of the Misunderstandings of OSAS Scriptures
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/OSAS-Corrections.html
The Way To Heaven, according to the Bible
http://www.geocities.com/1christlover/
This doctrine that teaches that all God's people will endure to the end, that those who fall into sin and stay there show that they never were true believers.
Do you really believe that encourgages ungodly living?0 -
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Soul Winner wrote: »Tell me J C who is Jesus talking to when He says the following? The saved or the unsaved?
Matthew 5:13
"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.”
If the saved are the salt of the earth and if it was impossible for them to loose their savour then why would Jesus even mention it? Surely this verse alone puts pay to the OSAS false doctrine?
The saved are the SPECIAL 'salt of the earth'......with cleansing and flavour properties similar to salt...........BUT they are much better than ORDINARY salt......which can be adulterated......and is then useless and only fit to be trodden under the feet of men!!!
........BTW, as a Christian, I reject everything which Satan says ........including his twisted lie that OSAS is his doctrine!!!!!
......and I reject and I rebuke in the name of Jesus Christ all cartoons, which attribute the eternal security of the Saved to Satan.........when it is Jesus Christ who says in Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.........or ETERNAL SECURITY!!!!:eek:0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.
OK ......so WHAT have we here then????
........Satan boasting that he will 'recapture' sinners who have BELIEVED ON JESUS CHRIST to save them........
..........I wonder which part does Satan not understand????.......
.......is it the part about the sinners BELIEVING ON Jesus Christ......
.......or is it the part about Jesus Christ BEING FULLY ABLE to save them?????
Satan is still just as deluded as when he asked Jesus Christ to adore him!!!!!:eek:0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Salt is salt in this contect, Are you stating that there is two types of salt ie Some Christians are "Marks & Spensors" salt while other the "unsaved Christians" are Yellowpack salt
Jesus most certainly IS referring to two types of 'salt'.......the unadulterable Christian METAPHORICAL 'salt of the earth'.....which cleanses and makes it's SPIRITUAL presence felt on Earth, even where the number of Christians is very small..........and literal physical salt........which can be adulterated and becomes PERMANENTLY an IRREDEEMABLY useless as a result.Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Jesus said: "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men".
Jesus is here giving us a contrasting view of the man of God with Christ in him, and the man who has fallen away from God (Ie the once saved), and has no virtue. Note that if the salt have no savor, it is good for nothing. For it is the savor which is the goodness!
Jesus is contrasting the Saved with ordinary salt which can be adulterated to the point where it become useless.......and it then can NEVER be restored to utility and must be thrown out!!!!Run_to_da_hills wrote: »The savor signifies the good or righteousness. In this verse we are warned not so much of our duty to salt the world, but to see that our salt is genuine, having a real flavor. In other words, we make our calling and Election sure! The previous verses (matt. 5:11-12) set the context of Christians being reviled, persecuted, and having all manner of evil spoken against them, and it is in this context that in verses 13 and 14 we are warned not to lose our saltiness. Context is important!
Of course a Christian must be genuinely saved.......and not a 'wolf in sheep's clothing'.........
.......but the important message of the verse about the Christian 'salt of the earth' is that it always retains it's savor.......while ordinary salt is subject to adulteration......which CANNOT BE REMEDIED.....and the adulterated salt MUST be then thrown out as useless!!!! 0 -
Not sure.
Salt is salt in this contect, Are you stating that there is two types of saltThe saved are the SPECIAL 'salt of the earth'......with cleansing and flavour properties similar to salt...........BUT they are much better than ORDINARY salt......which can be adulterated......and is then useless and only fit to be trodden under the feet of men!!!
........BTW, as a Christian, I reject everything which Satan says ........including his twisted lie that OSAS is his doctrine!!!!!
......and I reject and I rebuke in the name of Jesus Christ all cartoons, which attribute the eternal security of the Saved to Satan.........when it is Jesus Christ who says in Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.........or ETERNAL SECURITY!!!!:eek: ie Some Christians are "Marks & Spensors" salt while other the "unsaved Christians" are Yellowpack salt
Jesus said: "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men".
Jesus is here giving us a contrasting view of the man of God with Christ in him, and the man who has fallen away from God (Ie the once saved), and has no virtue. Note that if the salt have no savor, it is good for nothing. For it is the savor which is the goodness!
The savor signifies the good or righteousness. In this verse we are warned not so much of our duty to salt the world, but to see that our salt is genuine, having a real flavor. In other words, we make our calling and Election sure! The previous verses (matt. 5:11-12) set the context of Christians being reviled, persecuted, and having all manner of evil spoken against them, and it is in this context that in verses 13 and 14 we are warned not to lose our saltiness. Context is important!
OSAS Get out of Jail card.
No we have Satan capturing those that were once enlightened by the Holy Spirit but were deceived by the the lie of OSAS and fell back into sin and died in that state of unrepentant sin.
OK ......so WHAT have we here then????
........Satan boasting that he will 'recapture' sinners who have BELIEVED ON JESUS CHRIST to save them........0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.OSAS Get out of Jail card.
This 'card' is actually closer to the non-OSAS position ........wherby it is (erroneously) believed that we can get ourselves out of the 'sin bin' by repenting/confessing our sins.......without ever having been saved by Jesus Christ!!!!!
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast
The saved are released from spiritual 'Jail'........when they are saved......and the unsaved remain in spiritual 'Jail' .........no matter how often they repent of their evil deeds!!!!!
Being saved is like an amnesty......and remaining unsaved is like rejecting parole........when you could get it if you just asked for it!!!!!:D0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.OK ......so WHAT have we here then????
........Satan boasting that he will 'recapture' sinners who have BELIEVED ON JESUS CHRIST to save them........Run_to_da_hills wrote: »No we have Satan capturing those that were once enlightened by the Holy Spirit but were deceived by the the lie of OSAS and fell back into sin and died in that state of unrepentant sin.
.........as I have already asked .....which part does Satan not understand, when he boasts that he will 'recapture' sinners who have BELIEVED ON JESUS CHRIST to save them????.......
.......is it the part about the sinners BELIEVING ON Jesus Christ......
.......or is it the part about Jesus Christ BEING FULLY ABLE to save them????? 0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Anyone who believes OSAS is seriously deluded. It's a fools paradise.
........well then there are a good many seriously deluded 'fools' in Paradise...........and plenty of 'wise' men in Hades, awaiting Judgement!!!!!
.......the repentent thief beside Jesus on the cross, 'foolishly' believed on Jesus to save him......while the other 'wise guy' scoffed at them both........
........and Jesus told the 'foolish' thief that he would be with Him in Paradise .........please also note that there were no conditions attached by Jesus.......and no long list of repented/confessed sins, on the part of the thief...........and no warnings that Satan might 'capture' the thief before he died IF he didn't continue to persevere right up to the point of death........!!!!!
The thief had eternal security from the moment he believed on Jesus to save him.......and Jesus confirmed this fact by saying in Lk 23:43 "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise".!!!!!!
'Twas a good thing that RTDH wasn't there......or he would be running around warning the thief to 'hold out' despite all his pain until the very end........and warning him that Satan would 'have him' if he allowed himself a few 'expletives' when the soldiers broke his legs in order to hasten his death!!!!!:eek:
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Not sure.
Billy Graham also holds to the same beliefs as yourself. He said, “When we do sin, God does not reject us or disown us. Our fellowship with Him may be broken, but our relationship is not; we are still members of His family if we have truly committed our lives to Christ.” He also said, “I am convinced that once a person sincerely and honestly trusts Christ for his or her salvation, they become a member of God's family forever -- and nothing can change that relationship.”" alt=".as I have already asked .....which part does Satan not understand????....is it the part about the sinners BELIEVING ON Jesus Christ..or is it the part about Jesus Christ BEING FULLY ABLE to save them?????
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Today, thousands of people believe this teaching because that is what they have been told by their denominational leaders and they believe it without questioning it or studying their Bibles.
But does the Bible teach such? NO
The main argument of those who believe the doctrine of OSAS is that God promised security to the believer and don't get me wrong God has promised security to the believer but there is a condition...You must follow him!.
John 10:27-29 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”
Romans 8:38-39 “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
The Bible does teach security for the believer, but it is conditional.
Jesus says that the security he provides is for those who “hear my voice” and “follow me”
The security of remaining in the love of God is comfort against all external threats.
These passages, however, don't discuss what happens if an individual chooses to wander from the fold, or to leave the love of God.
That is not to say that the believer has no security at all.
1 John 1:7 says, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 2:1 teaches, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”
The believer has assurance of salvation if he repents and confesses his sins to God.
Why is this doctrine wrong?
The scriptures teach the opposite in several places.
Consider Galatians 5:3-4 says, “For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
Consider also Hebrews 6:4-6 which says, “For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame0 -
Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Run_to_da_hills wrote: »The main argument of those who believe the doctrine of OSAS is that God promised security to the believer and don't get me wrong God has promised security to the believer but there is a condition...You must follow him!.
........and the Saved WILL follow Him!!!!!
......and ARE therefore OSAS!!!!Run_to_da_hills wrote: »John 10:27-29 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”
Romans 8:38-39 “For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
The Bible does teach security for the believer, but it is conditional.
.......making progress!!!!
........so you believe that the Bible does teach security for the believer!!!!
.......so we only differ on the 'conditional' bit..........so why would Jesus save a murderer ..........and later condem the man for thinking lustful thoughts about a woman who flirted with him????Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Jesus says that the security he provides is for those who “hear my voice” and “follow me”
The security of remaining in the love of God is comfort against all external threats.
These passages, however, don't discuss what happens if an individual chooses to wander from the fold, or to leave the love of God.
....and there is a good reason why these passages don't discuss what happens if an individual chooses to wander from the fold, or to leave the love of God.......because they WON'T do so .......as they are OSAS!!!:DRun_to_da_hills wrote: »That is not to say that the believer has no security at all.
.......so he is a 'little bit saved'..........something like a 'little pit pregnant'....perhaps?????
......or does the believer repent and confess his sins because he is ever grateful to God for assuring him of salvation ?????Run_to_da_hills wrote: »1 John 1:7 says, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 2:1 teaches, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”
The believer has assurance of salvation if he repents and confesses his sins to God.Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Why is this doctrine wrong?
The scriptures teach the opposite in several places.
Consider Galatians 5:3-4 says, “For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. "
......good job I'm not circumcised then!!!:eek:Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Consider also Hebrews 6:4-6 which says, “For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
.......please re-read those TERRIBLY FINAL words "it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance" .......which means that anybody who is unsaved and who hardens their heart against God, having been fully enlightened by the Holy Spirit.......will NEVER be saved!!!!0 -
Not sure.
If the saved REFUSE to follow him they are cast out as unprofitable servents. And dont tell me they were never saved to begin with If so you may also as well take the Parable of the sewer as a fairy tail. This is one of the reasons I cannot stand listening to an airy fairy OSAS preacher that cannot grasp and preach the reality of the Gospel that your salvation is conditional.and the Saved WILL follow Him!!!!!
and ARE therefore OSAS!!!!!!!!
The Bible does teach security for the believer ONLY TO THOSE THAT ENDURE TO THE END. You are trying to put words into my mouth..
so you believe that the Bible does teach security for the believer!!!
You still cannot differenciate between someone who is still committed to following Christ and has sinned and and the person who has deliberately rejected his call to follow Christ and turned his back on him. You cannot see any difference in this at all..
...so we only differ on the 'conditional' bit..........so why would Jesus save a murderer ..........and later condem the man for thinking lustful thoughts about a woman who flirted with him????!!!!!!!!
Read the Following: God will FORGET all the good work that someone has done if he turns his back on him.
"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity,and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die". Ezekiel 18 25
How more clearer to it can you get than that.0 -
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Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine.Run_to_da_hills said:
Perseverance of the Saints teaches the same.The main argument of those who believe the doctrine of OSAS is that God promised security to the believer and don't get me wrong God has promised security to the believer but there is a condition...You must follow him!.
Exactly. But note what it says about His sheep. They follow Him; not, follow Him for a time. They never perish; not, sometimes perish.John 10:27-29 “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”
Jesus says that the security he provides is for those who “hear my voice” and “follow me”
Indeed they don't, for the true believer cannot leave the fold or the love of God. If they sin, He chastises them and causes them to repent.These passages, however, don't discuss what happens if an individual chooses to wander from the fold, or to leave the love of God.
Remember the terms of the New Covenant: it is unconditional and cannot be broken.
Remember how God dealt with sinning saints in Corinth: sickness, and even death. Were they damned? Not at all, for the Holy Spirit gives us the reason for this chastisement:
1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.1 John 1:7 says, “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”
1 John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
1 John 2:1 teaches, “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”
He also says:
1 John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
This is the practice of sin, rather than isolated incidents. The true believer falls into sin occasionally, but never returns to sin as a dog returns to its vomit. Those who so return prove they were bogus to begin with - like Judas, who was a thief all the time he professed faith.
What do you believe this passage teaches? A true believer can fall away and perish?Consider also Hebrews 6:4-6 which says, “For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame
If so, you must also believe that any true believer who falls away never can come back. Do you believe that?
You seem to say elsewhere that they can repent and be restored. 0 -
Not sure.
Depends on the Christian, if he is a backslider and falls away from his faith, God will do everything in his [power to try and put that person back on track through repentance BUT GOD CANNOT FORCE ANYONE TO TURN BACK. IF THAT PERSON REFUSES TO REPENT AND DIES HE WILL BE DANMED!! END OF STORY> For the wages of sin is death Romans 6 vs 23.Exactly. But note what it says about His sheep. They follow Him; not, follow Him for a time. They never perish; not, sometimes perish. Indeed they don't, for the true believer cannot leave the fold or the love of God. If they sin, He chastises them and causes them to repent. Remember the terms of the New Covenant: it is unconditional and cannot be broken.
Absolutly. The parable of the vine testifies this.What do you believe this passage teaches? A true believer can fall away and perish?
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-27(KJV)
Throughout Scripture especially in the four Gospels there are parables dealing with Repentant sinners ie. those that "saw the light", ie. "born again", "saved" that have strayed away fron the truth and have genuinely repented and have come back to it ie both the parable of the lost coin and prodogal son.If so, you must also believe that any true believer who falls away never can come back. Do you believe that? You seem to say elsewhere that they can repent and be restored.
Also Scripture there are parables of those that "saw the light", ie. "born again", "saved" that have strayed away fron the truth and NEVER came back or repented and have DIED in their sin and subsiquently ended up burning in eternal hell such as the parable of the unprofitable servant. Unfortunitally those that follow your religion, i.e. OSAS like to dismiss all these parables altogether and say they only concern the unsaved.0 -
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Not sure.
I was expecting that answer.which makes those three parables out to be NONSENSE .Run_to_da_hills said:
Yes, they only speak of the unsaved. .Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’.
No there is no contradicrtion what so ever. Many saved will endure to the end and many "saved" will fall away from grace and be danmed as simple as that.
Jesus is clearly preaching about those that were saved and went out preaching with the wrong motive. They may have thought that they were doing God a favour but will be turned away and damned on Judgement day. Such will be many of these greedy Gospel prerachers and television evangelists. This is also discussed Romans 16 vs 17.18 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple". Romans 16 vs 17,18
These parables preach of "falling away from grace" a choice made by man and not god. a person makes the choice to follow Christ or not. Jesus preaches more about Hell than Heaven in the Bible. A book which you dismiss as important because you have this "Get out of Jail card" in your back pocket. A card which gives you amnesty to all your actions of the future no matter how bad they get. I certainly dont buy that.If these parables speak of truly saved people becoming unsaved again, then they contradict all the other texts that teach they will persevere to the end.0 -
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