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The Politics of House Viewing

13

Comments

  • #62
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    I have a rental property and I do pretty much everything that's been mentioned here:

    - I don't accept rent allowance.

    - I've no issue with a tenant claiming rent relief if he/she is still entitled to it.

    - I don't allow pets.

    - I allocate 15 minute slots and have a chat with the relevant individual(s) after that.

    - I look for a landlord's reference and an employer's reference.

    - I have a friend do a credit check on the prospective tenant.

    - I have a friend do a criminal record check on the prospective tenant.

    Surprise surprise I've never had a single issue. Diligence and caution pay off.


  • #63
    Ann Landers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    - I have a friend do a credit check on the prospective tenant.

    - I have a friend do a criminal record check on the prospective tenant.

    This sounds shady...


  • #64
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Ann Landers wrote: »
    This sounds shady...

    What's shady about it?

    My mate in the bank doesn't give me specifics - He just says "Yep, no issues".

    Same with my Garda mate - He just says "All good" or "Avoid".


  • #65
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    What's shady about it?

    My mate in the bank doesn't give me specifics - He just says "Yep, no issues".

    Same with my Garda mate - He just says "All good" or "Avoid".
    Do you really have to ask? Both are breaking the law.


  • #66
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    No Pants wrote: »
    Do you really have to ask? Both are breaking the law.

    Which law(s) precisely?

    Date Protection?!

    Give me a break...this is done all the time by bank staff and Gardai for their own rental properties.

    The Guards who we know even check out prospective neighbours for would be purchasers/tenants in our group of friends.

    It's hardly corruption most foul!


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  • #67
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Which law(s) precisely?

    Date Protection?!

    Give me a break...this is done all the time by bank staff and Gardai for their own rental properties.

    The Guards who we know even check out prospective neighbours for would be purchasers/tenants in our group of friends.

    It's hardly corruption most foul!

    It is a breach of data protection, if found out your friends would face disciplinary proceedings


  • #68
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Stheno wrote: »
    It is a breach of data protection, if found out your friends would face disciplinary proceedings

    If I was renting a place, I would have no issue whatsoever with the landlord having a friend of his check my credit history or whether I've a criminal record.

    Do you know why?

    Because I've nothing to hide.


  • #69
    Ann Landers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    If I was renting a place, I would have no issue whatsoever with the landlord having a friend of his check my credit history or whether I've a criminal record.

    Do you know why?

    Because I've nothing to hide.

    That's missing the point.


  • #70
    Larry Wildman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Larry Wildman


    Ann Landers wrote: »
    That's missing the point.

    Not really...what misses the point is valuing pinko liberal pseudo "rights" above an individual's right not to have his/her property wrecked by a dodgy tenant.


  • #71
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Not really...what misses the point is valuing pinko liberal pseudo "rights" above an individual's right not to have his/her property wrecked by a dodgy tenant.

    You and your friends are breaking the law!


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  • #72
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    Not really...what misses the point is valuing pinko liberal pseudo "rights" above an individual's right not to have his/her property wrecked by a dodgy tenant.

    Larry the charter here does not allow the encouragement of illegal acts. I'd suggest this conversation ends now.

    /Mod.


  • #73
    Daithi_2014
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Daithi_2014


    Lots of landlords give troublesome tenants good references to make sure some other poor sod takes them off their hands.
    But if called afterwards they will be able to tell the truth, when that person is no longer in their property, they have nothing to lose by telling the truth.

    On Irish Landlord website they are now recommending getting references from a prospective tenants last 3 landlords. Then at least the previous 2 will be unhindered in what they have to say for definite.

    If a person doesnt have 3 previous landlords though, they might find it very difficult now to rent when demand is high. Because they just arent showing enough check-able history.


  • #74
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ann Landers wrote: »
    If a tenant falls into arrears on their rent, they can be evicted. As regards the state the property will be kept in, bank statements won't help you with this, landlord references are what you need there. Someone can have a well-paying job and be a total pig.

    I've been involved in an eviction in the last few weeks- the original tenants appear to have sublet the property (and those tenants similarly did so). It was a nightmare trying to serve eviction papers- as we had no idea who was in the property. Meanwhile- rent hadn't been paid (by the end- in 22 months), the gas mains had been cut off and the meter removed, as the tenants decided to do an unauthorised bypass of the gas, the rooms were painted with high gloss black paint, the locks had been changed to prevent inspection of the property- and the day after the PRTB finally decided that all the eviction duckies had been lined up neatly and determined in favour, the place had been deliberately flooded and abondoned.

    Its cost a little under 13.5k to repair the damage (the unit had to be fully gutted and refurbished- absolutely everything had to be skipped)- and Bord Gais are looking for 6k before they'll put the gas meter back in- and contact details for the tenant who we don't have- as I understand they want to pursue them over their little bit of gas network tampering (which apparently extended to putting in a bypass at the mains outside the property- causing significant damage- and they were damn lucky they didn't kill anyone).

    One neighbour has reported as a parting gift, the new exhaust system from his Mercedes commercial van has been expertly removed overnight- and apparently has CCTV footage of it happening, and has handed same to the Gardai, but been told not to expect anything to come from it. I've not seen the footage, nor been asked to view it- and most probably wouldn't be able to identify anyone even if I did.

    This was in a nice, private, gated community- which has never experienced anything on this scale before.

    Initial eviction notices had been served in 2012, because of lack of payment of rent- alongside antisocial behaviour (the tenants had lots of friends/buddies/relatives - most of them young men hanging around in groups- over drinking and smoking in the communal carpark, where they also held impromtu barbeques, both day and night- causing a lot of unease amongst particularly the elderly residents, but also parents with young children who felt intimidated by them.) The eviction papers were ignored (quelle suprise), and the PRTB process slowly churned its wheels. Towards the end of the process- it was noted that the current tenants- were not those on the papers- and had tenancy rights of their own (why- makes no sense to me)- and effectively the process was wound back almost to the beginning again.

    Its only when you've actually had to deal with removing problem tenants- that you can appreciate the cost of time, effort and money- involved in removing them from your property. You have no idea what damage they may leave in their wake- and normally a best case scenario is no structural damage caused (I'm not joking).

    The PRTB really are a joke.


  • #75
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Larry Wildman wrote: »
    pinko liberal pseudo "rights"
    Right...


  • #76
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    No Pants wrote: »
    Do you really have to ask? Both are breaking the law.

    If you suspected that a paedophile was moving in next door to you would you bother gettting a Garda to check or would you be more concerned about breaches of Data Protection?


  • #77
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    If you suspected that a paedophile was moving in next door to you would you bother gettting a Garda to check or would you be more concerned about breaches of Data Protection?
    Why would I suspect that this new neighbour is a pedophile in the first place?


  • #78
    The_Morrigan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭The_Morrigan


    Santa Cruz wrote: »
    If you suspected that a paedophile was moving in next door to you would you bother gettting a Garda to check or would you be more concerned about breaches of Data Protection?

    Santa Cruz I've already asked for the conversation to cease regarding getting your mates to do Garda and credit checks on the sly.
    Cut it out.

    /Mod


  • #79
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    TimeToShine wrote: »
    I went for a house (as a student, granted) a few years ago and there was about 50 people there. The LL basically said to the room at large (mostly students) that "Sorry I won't be taking any of the students, professionals/families can stay so I can ask them a few questions". We stayed back pretending we were professionals, and there was about 10 others there, all with the deposit in hand willing to pay up. He pretty much brought us one by one into the kitchen for an interview of sorts, expecting references, proof of our profession etc.

    Needless to say we didn't get it, and the house was snapped up by the next day. If you can bring references with you or make an effort to look "professional" then do it. It's very judgemental and pretty much discrimination but there's nothing we can do about it.


    He dodged a bullet there could have had lying students in this house now !


  • #80
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    People shouldn't be accessing privileged databases like the PULSE (or whatever the Guards use these days) to perform private checks for mates. I understand the landlord here and that he's using what's in his arsenal but it isn't right that the national police force should be engaged in this (further damages what little confidence I've had in them for a long time now) BUT there is nothing against the law about checking someone's social media (and their friends) and running names through google to look for court appearances, judgments against them etc. It's all public domain and should be used....it is by prospective employers HR departments!


  • #81
    Ann Landers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    I've been involved in an eviction in the last few weeks- the original tenants appear to have sublet the property (and those tenants similarly did so). It was a nightmare trying to serve eviction papers- as we had no idea who was in the property. Meanwhile- rent hadn't been paid (by the end- in 22 months), the gas mains had been cut off and the meter removed, as the tenants decided to do an unauthorised bypass of the gas, the rooms were painted with high gloss black paint, the locks had been changed to prevent inspection of the property- and the day after the PRTB finally decided that all the eviction duckies had been lined up neatly and determined in favour, the place had been deliberately flooded and abondoned.

    Its cost a little under 13.5k to repair the damage (the unit had to be fully gutted and refurbished- absolutely everything had to be skipped)- and Bord Gais are looking for 6k before they'll put the gas meter back in- and contact details for the tenant who we don't have- as I understand they want to pursue them over their little bit of gas network tampering (which apparently extended to putting in a bypass at the mains outside the property- causing significant damage- and they were damn lucky they didn't kill anyone).

    One neighbour has reported as a parting gift, the new exhaust system from his Mercedes commercial van has been expertly removed overnight- and apparently has CCTV footage of it happening, and has handed same to the Gardai, but been told not to expect anything to come from it. I've not seen the footage, nor been asked to view it- and most probably wouldn't be able to identify anyone even if I did.

    This was in a nice, private, gated community- which has never experienced anything on this scale before.

    Initial eviction notices had been served in 2012, because of lack of payment of rent- alongside antisocial behaviour (the tenants had lots of friends/buddies/relatives - most of them young men hanging around in groups- over drinking and smoking in the communal carpark, where they also held impromtu barbeques, both day and night- causing a lot of unease amongst particularly the elderly residents, but also parents with young children who felt intimidated by them.) The eviction papers were ignored (quelle suprise), and the PRTB process slowly churned its wheels. Towards the end of the process- it was noted that the current tenants- were not those on the papers- and had tenancy rights of their own (why- makes no sense to me)- and effectively the process was wound back almost to the beginning again.

    Its only when you've actually had to deal with removing problem tenants- that you can appreciate the cost of time, effort and money- involved in removing them from your property. You have no idea what damage they may leave in their wake- and normally a best case scenario is no structural damage caused (I'm not joking).

    The PRTB really are a joke.

    Sounds horrible, but also sounds like a rare case. What pre-checks should have been done, do you think, to flag these prospective tenants as troublemakers? References would have been your best bet, I guess?


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  • #82
    Ann Landers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    murphaph wrote: »
    People shouldn't be accessing privileged databases like the PULSE (or whatever the Guards use these days) to perform private checks for mates. I understand the landlord here and that he's using what's in his arsenal but it isn't right that the national police force should be engaged in this (further damages what little confidence I've had in them for a long time now) BUT there is nothing against the law about checking someone's social media (and their friends) and running names through google to look for court appearances, judgments against them etc. It's all public domain and should be used....it is by prospective employers HR departments!

    Of course not, anything in the public domain is fair game. Totally different from getting people to breach data protection laws for you.


  • #83
    Ann Landers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    Daithi_2014 wrote: »
    Lots of landlords give troublesome tenants good references to make sure some other poor sod takes them off their hands.
    But if called afterwards they will be able to tell the truth, when that person is no longer in their property, they have nothing to lose by telling the truth.

    On Irish Landlord website they are now recommending getting references from a prospective tenants last 3 landlords. Then at least the previous 2 will be unhindered in what they have to say for definite.

    If a person doesnt have 3 previous landlords though, they might find it very difficult now to rent when demand is high. Because they just arent showing enough check-able history.

    I don't even think I have contact details for my third to last landlord. I also hate the thought of bothering someone like that who isn't even getting any economic benefit from knowing me anymore. I had to get proof of residence from a former landlord to get a small grant for a postgrad and felt so bad badgering her about it. The second to last, I wouldn't mind as I'd still be fairly fresh in the memory.

    Three references is a tad excessive, IMO. Many prospective employers don't even look for that many!


  • #84
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Ann Landers wrote: »
    Sounds horrible, but also sounds like a rare case. What pre-checks should have been done, do you think, to flag these prospective tenants as troublemakers? References would have been your best bet, I guess?
    References from previous landlords excluding current landlord and of course, checking the references are genuine!

    In Germany it's very common for landlords to request a Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung (certificate of no rental arrears) from the tenant. The previous landlord might issue a healthy fake reference to a problem tenant to get shot of him but he won't issue a certificate of no rental arrears if he's owed money as it effectively states no money is owed.

    It would be one extra step landlords in Ireland could introduce themselves, independent of the law mandating it. But landlords (and tenants) in Ireland are a fragmented group, with no real cohesion or common purpose.

    The bank statements are part of the overall picture of the prospective tenant. I wouldn't rent to someone on the strength of a healthy bank balance alone and I wouldn't rent to them on the strength of a good previous landlord's reference alone. It's about getting a holistic impression of the prospective tenant.


  • #85
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Ann Landers wrote: »
    Three references is a tad excessive, IMO. Many prospective employers don't even look for that many!
    The prospective employer who hires the "wrong" candidate has a MUCH easier time getting rid of them than the prospective landlord who rents to the "wrong" tenant. An employer can generally terminate the employment without reason during the probationary period and that's it. A LL on the other hand can not simply terminate the tenancy and go around and throw the tenant out. Due process takes over a year usually. If you're looking to blame anything...blame the dreadful system that protects rogue tenants so well. If it took 2 weeks to get rid of such people, there'd be far less need for scrutiny by the LL.


  • #86
    Ann Landers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 817 ✭✭✭Ann Landers


    A rent arrears cert is a good idea.


  • #87
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ann Landers wrote: »
    Sounds horrible, but also sounds like a rare case. What pre-checks should have been done, do you think, to flag these prospective tenants as troublemakers? References would have been your best bet, I guess?

    Its not as rare a case as you'd imagine.
    Also from a family member- my sister rented out her apartment in Galway.
    Its a fairly large apartment, over 3 floors, with 4 or 5 bedrooms (following a renovation). Her tenants (students) decided to have a barbeque out back, without cognisance of the large gas cylinder nearby (its immediately to the rear of Jury's Hotel, on Bridge Street). Queue- an explosion that caused significant structural damage.

    Another sister (I have 4)- rented to student nurses.
    She got the first month's rent, and their deposit.
    They never paid another cent.
    They left midway through eviction proceedings the following June (as term had ended). She never got a penny back off them- despite all having had parents sign as guarantors for them.

    And- another sister- has had 3 instances of non-paying tenants in Smithfield in Dublin. One caused water damage to apartments below by deliberately flooding the place when they deserted it. The other two just left of their own accord, no damage caused (other than not paying rent).

    This is from immediate family members. Its not a rare occurrence at all- its actually remarkably common.


  • #88
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Pre-checks?
    Nothings seems to work.
    Professionals may be unlikely to not pay their rent- but even this happens on occasion.
    Students- less said the better. Normally they pay their rent, when parents act as guarantors- but even this is not a given. If they cause trouble- consider getting your property back without major damage, as as good as it gets.
    Members of a minority travelling community- most are fine. Sometimes the message that a rental property is for one family- and not for them to randomly share between extended branches of the family- seems to be an alien concept. If they pay the rent, great- if not- you're in for the full legal process, before they vanish overnight.
    Random members of the public- gathering as much personal information as possible- where they work, their car registration number etc- and letting them know you have their information- is probably as good as it gets. If a problem occurs with the rent- how good a relationship have you with them- and how long into the tenancy before the issue occurs?

    The flipside of the coin- is pretty much all of these people- who are good tenants- will have it in their head, that the landlord is going to screw them out of their deposit.

    There is a complete breakdown of trust on both sides- however, the landlord has a lot more to loose than others.........


  • #89
    aaabbbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭aaabbbb


    I still don't get the idea of the whole "landlord reference " its so easy to fake it's pretty much futile.


  • #90
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    aaabbbb wrote: »
    I still don't get the idea of the whole "landlord reference " its so easy to fake it's pretty much futile.

    That's why two months rent as deposit should be standard even at that its not enought when the tenant doesn't want to pay the rent.


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  • #91
    Daithi_2014
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Daithi_2014


    aaabbbb wrote: »
    I still don't get the idea of the whole "landlord reference " its so easy to fake it's pretty much futile.

    Its not as easy as you think. Most savvy landlords can suss out the fakes while talking to them. Nobody should ever take a written reference as real anyway and should always call and have a good chat about the person.
    And good luck faking 3 of them.


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