Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

Judgement Day · 03-11-2012 4:55pm

'It must be nice to have the keys to alternate realities. While you're there could you tell me what Britain would have looked like if Hitler didn't attack Russia and instead invaded Britain?'

Chuck Stone - while we're are off topic you might like to outline how you think Ireland would have looked if Hitler had overwhelmed Britain. :rolleyes:

yesman2000 · 03-11-2012 4:59pm

thecommietommy wrote: »

After all it's for a foreign army, I don't see anyone wearing an emblem for the French, American, Spanish army. Ok some say it's for charity for injured British soldiers, but surely if they join up it's up to the British govt to properly look after them when they are injured and not pestering people expecting charity ?

You should get yourself any Irish history book from that time and you'd very quickly realise why one might wear a poppy. I personally wouldn't but could definetly understand other irish people wearing one.

Nodin · 03-11-2012 5:06pm

LordSutch wrote: »

No idea, could be many people could be none? would take for ever to find out I reckon.

Nice way of trying to evade the point. All Empires are evil affairs, but the only one which has its 'defenders' come on here with their mealy mouthed apologia for centures of oppression and racism is the British one.

japer wrote:

and millions of people - including a few hundred thousand Irish people - fought in Brith uniforms and were pround to do so. They defended these islands against other empires .

And your point?

Chuck Stone · 03-11-2012 5:11pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

'It must be nice to have the keys to alternate realities. While you're there could you tell me what Britain would have looked like if Hitler didn't attack Russia and instead invaded Britain?'

Chuck Stone - while we're are off topic you might like to outline how you think Ireland would have looked if Hitler had overwhelmed Britain. :rolleyes:

You're making a mistake. I didn't claim to have the keys to alternate realities.

Regardless, one could equally ask how Ireland would have looked had the plantations not happened.

Conjecture is pretty much a waste of time.

Nodin · 03-11-2012 5:33pm

Japer wrote: »

All the European countries had Empires : Belgium, Germany, France, Spain. Portugal etc. We were part of the UK, and Irish people made up a third of the admonistration of India, for example. .

Again - whats your point?

Japer wrote: »

In the 20th century, we had much to fear from the like of Germany and Russia, and hundreds of thousands of Irish people fought against those empires....if they did not / nobody did, its almost certain your life would be a lot worse.

marwelie wrote:

Anyone who watches Our War on BBC would be moved to wear one.

The poppy funds are not limited to WWI/WWII veterans.

I might point out that the german drive towards acheiving MittelEuropa was only replicating what the British and others did outside Europe. It came to grief primarily because its easier to subjugate people armed with spears rather than rifles.

Nodin · 03-11-2012 5:35pm

'But the British ran a rather brutal Empire'

'Ah yes, but HITLER.'

...seems to occur rather a lot in this thread.

ejmaztec · 03-11-2012 5:38pm

Nodin wrote: »

'But the British ran a rather brutal Empire'

'Ah yes, but HITLER had much fewer Irish people working for him.'

:P

Lelantos · 03-11-2012 6:24pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

But you're also wearing it commemorating murderers who shot dead and murdered children on the streets of Ireland.

Is the poppy an IRA symbol?!

Jimoslimos · 03-11-2012 6:38pm

LordSutch wrote: »

This year will be President Michael D Higgins 1st year at the Remembrance day service in St Patrick's Cathedral Dublin, and it will be interesting to see if he bucks the trend of previous ROI Presidents and actually wears a poppy on the big day! Previous years have seen Irish Government ministers, foreign dignitaries, commonwealth leaders, embassy officials + nearly everybody else in the cathedral wearing poppies as a mark of respect on Remembrance Sunday, but the President of the ROI has always abstained, which is of course his/her choice . . . .

Might he actually wear a Poppy & buck the trend?

I doubt it.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The President should wear the poppy imo. We've established the Republic as a country and we should forget about past indiscretions and push forward. I'm not this 'West Brit' character which is often thrown at people like me, My Great grandfather's house was burnt down by the black and tans. He was a doctor who aided injured IRA men. They showed up at the door one night and politely ordered everybody out of the house including my grandmother in her pram.

In the here and now 2012, Ireland and Britain are as close as they've ever been since the 26 counties left the empire. We should strive to continue a strong relationship with our neighbours and remember the Irish who died on the battlefields.

32 counties is not possible at this time, remember that Westminster doesn't want to keep NI just like the majority in the Republic doesn't want to take them.

Seriously? Are people purposely missing the point on what the poppy is used for?

1) As a symbol to commemorate fallen soldiers in previous conflicts (WWI and II)
2) A RBL tool to raise funds for past and present soldiers of the British Army (and their families) involved in past and present conflicts

What leader of any independent state would honour those who chose to fight for a different county (allies or not)? If the president was in the UK at the time, then perhaps a gesture could be made - although as a neutral country it is unlikely.

Now given that Ireland doesn't have a well-developed military, I don't have an issue with Irish people today getting their jollies by enlisting with the British Army, French Foreign Legion, etc. But don't expect to be fêted when you return.

More importantly, why is wearing a poppy seen as the only valid way to pay respect to those who have died? Actions and words speak louder than a piece of red plastic.

ejmaztec · 03-11-2012 6:40pm

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You're making a mistake. I didn't claim to have the keys to alternate realities.

Regardless, one could equally ask how Ireland would have looked had the plantations not happened.

Conjecture is pretty much a waste of time.

Given the way the system operates today, the land-owners/big knobs would still have shafted the less fortunate and trampled them under foot.:(

golden lane · 03-11-2012 6:49pm

my children are british.....and proud to be british......

they never murdered anyone.......

anyone on here that doesn't like that.....tough ****.......

i bet they are not kept by begging off the germans.....

indioblack · 03-11-2012 7:06pm

GRMA wrote: »

We owe a bigger debt to the Russians for destroying Nazism. If this was really about the debt we owe to people who stopped Nazism people wouldn't wear a British nationalist symbol which only remembers British soldiers - of all generations, from WW1 till now.

Why not? If, in your words, a bigger debt is owed to the Russians then, logically, a debt is owed to the British - a smaller one!

Hidalgo · 03-11-2012 7:49pm

nice_very wrote: »

heres a thought.... if the 30,000 who fought with the british in WW1, had fought instead with the easter 1916 rebels, we could be living in a very different country

Many of those who went to fight for the British Army did so with the encouragement of Irish politicians.

Prior to WWI breaking out Ireland was close (or at least Irish politicians thought so) to gaining Home Rule. WWI put Home Rule on the back burner for what was anticipated to be a short war. Irish politicians believed that Irish men joining thr British Army to fight would further help claims for Home Rule.

There's the reason why many joined.

Chuck Stone · 03-11-2012 7:53pm

golden lane wrote: »

i bet they are not kept by begging off the germans.....

The Germans, among others, are simply looking out for themselves.

If many of us had our way the British Banks might well have suffered massive losses from their exposure (€174,000,000,000) to the Celtic Pyramid.

Also, it would interesting to know how much of Britain's wealth has trickled down from its colonial past.

Consider too 'Britain's debt time bomb'

gurramok · 03-11-2012 8:05pm

golden lane wrote: »

my children are british.....and proud to be british......

they never murdered anyone.......

anyone on here that doesn't like that.....tough ****.......

i bet they are not kept by begging off the germans.....

How many Iraqi and Afghan children have been slaughtered by your army? Just wondering as you proudly display your poppy to support your soldiers.

Fratton Fred · 03-11-2012 9:43pm

gurramok wrote: »

How many Iraqi and Afghan children have been slaughtered by your army? Just wondering as you proudly display your poppy to support your soldiers.

How many were slaughtered by the Irish army during their occupation of Chad?

bobbysands81 · 03-11-2012 10:26pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Is the poppy an IRA symbol?!

No, buying a poppy commemorates soldiers that have killed Irish kids on Irish streets.

Lelantos · 03-11-2012 10:28pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

No, buying a poppy commemorates soldiers that have killed Irish kids on Irish streets.

So it is! an IRA symbol

gurramok · 03-11-2012 10:34pm

Lelantos wrote: »

So it is! an IRA symbol

Is that denial of British Army slaughter of Irish kids in NI?

bobbysands81 · 03-11-2012 10:36pm

gurramok wrote: »

Is that denial of British Army slaughter of Irish kids in NI?

Whatever it is, it's pathetic.

gurramok · 03-11-2012 10:38pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How many were slaughtered by the Irish army during their occupation of Chad?

Any figures? We know there were many "collateral damage" incidences of slaughter of Iraqi and Afghan kids by the British forces, ya know those wedding atrocities.

Bohemian1890 · 03-11-2012 10:39pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How many were slaughtered by the Irish army during their occupation of Chad?

When have the Irish army slaughtered anyone in Chad?. The British army is a parasite, simple as

Japer · 03-11-2012 10:39pm

A lot more kids would have been slaughtered in N. Ireland , and elsewhere in Europe among other places, were it not for the British army, Air Force + Navy.
Its arguably one of the most professional and respected armed forces in the world : respected even by its enemies. Were it not there, you would be speaking German or Russian and would enjoy a worse life than you currently enjoy.

bobbysands81 · 03-11-2012 10:41pm

Japer wrote: »

A lot more kids would have been slaughtered in N. Ireland , and elsewhere in Europe among other places, were it not for the British army, Air Force + Navy.
Its arguably one of the most professional and respected armed forces in the world : respected even by its enemies. Were it not there, you would be speaking German or Russian and would enjoy a worse life than you currently enjoy.

But... But... But... But... The NAZI'S would have been worse.

delthedriver · 03-11-2012 10:46pm

Time to move on folks!

Bohemian1890 · 03-11-2012 10:50pm

Ask any honest, law abiding Nationalist that lived in a Nationalist area in the north of Ireland during the troubles should it be worn by an Irish person and you'd see what they'd tell you. IMO any Irish person who wears it is not worthy of calling themselves Irish.

Lelantos · 03-11-2012 10:51pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Whatever it is, it's pathetic.

Is it a denial of IRA murder of kids in Ireland, both sides of the border?

philologos · 03-11-2012 10:55pm

GRMA wrote: »

We owe a bigger debt to the Russians for destroying Nazism. If this was really about the debt we owe to people who stopped Nazism people wouldn't wear a British nationalist symbol which only remembers British soldiers - of all generations, from WW1 till now.

As I and others have explained to you, the poppy as a symbol has a more meaningful significance considering it is based on the poem In Flanders Fields by John McCrae. McCrae was Canadian. The symbol can be interpreted to one degree or another. It does not require the wearer to claim that the British army never made mistakes, or even that every war that the British fought was "a good war" and so on. Indeed, the poppy also allows scope for remembering the futility of war also. Pretty much all it is that poppies happened to grow near Flanders where John McCrae was when he was writing his poem in 1915.

Jimoslimos wrote: »

More importantly, why is wearing a poppy seen as the only valid way to pay respect to those who have died? Actions and words speak louder than a piece of red plastic.

It isn't the only way, it's a commonly accepted way and the 11th of November is a commonly accepted date for doing this. There's no obligation for you to join in. It's a good opportunity for reflection on war and conflict which I think is valuable every year.

Why is that so wrong?

bobbysands81 · 03-11-2012 10:56pm

A poppy we can all agree to commemorate:

http://i.imgur.com/GARVn.jpg

Anyone know how I post this as a pic?

Nodin · 03-11-2012 11:06pm

philologos wrote: »

As I and others have explained to you, the poppy as a symbol has a more meaningful significance considering it is based on the poem In Flanders Fields by John McCrae. McCrae was Canadian. The symbol can be interpreted to one degree or another. It does not require the wearer to claim that the British army never made mistakes, or even that every war that the British fought was "a good war" and so on. Indeed, the poppy also allows scope for remembering the futility of war also. Pretty much all it is that poppies happened to grow near Flanders where John McCrae was when he was writing his poem in 1915.

However funds go to all who served. As has been pointed out more than once.

bobbysands81 · 03-11-2012 11:07pm

Lelantos wrote: »

Is it a denial of IRA murder of kids in Ireland, both sides of the border?

No.

Why would Irish people want to commemorate an occupying army that have intentionally targetted and killed tens of thousands of people in this State including children?

caste_in_exile · 03-11-2012 11:07pm

appears as if they've bn shot thru the heart; like someones to blame.

time to put that poppy to bed already. much like the concept of britain

bobbysands81 · 03-11-2012 11:11pm

An even better poppy - http://i48.tinypic.com/2e4kod5.jpg

therewillbe · 03-11-2012 11:15pm

BX 19 wrote: »

Its only a problem if you make it out to be one

That's the war memorial at Islandbridge in Dublin for those that don't know

I hate that flower or is it a weed?Brits and those who fought for them wear them out of some sort of respect.In my small minded opinion,Sod them all.Roll on the `16.

mattjack · 03-11-2012 11:27pm

Only eight more days left , thank God and the spaghetti monster above for the poll results we will receive.Jesus wep't them Germans have a lot to answer for.

A Dub in Glasgo · 03-11-2012 11:29pm

philologos wrote: »

As I and others have explained to you, the poppy as a symbol has a more meaningful significance considering it is based on the poem In Flanders Fields by John McCrae. McCrae was Canadian. The symbol can be interpreted to one degree or another. It does not require the wearer to claim that the British army never made mistakes, or even that every war that the British fought was "a good war" and so on. Indeed, the poppy also allows scope for remembering the futility of war also. Pretty much all it is that poppies happened to grow near Flanders where John McCrae was when he was writing his poem in 1915.

Very noble indeed although this totally ignores the current politicisation of the red poppy. Would you wear the white poppy?

caste_in_exile · 03-11-2012 11:34pm

Tuned into some football earlier; was treated to a military precession is there no escape give it a rest you fcuking clowns...

I simply don't do subjection to oversaturation and will always be riled by it in all its forms, but saw the lighter side of it and so ripped the piss.

Fratton Fred · 03-11-2012 11:36pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Very noble indeed although this totally ignores the current politicisation of the red poppy. Would you wear the white poppy?

The only people politicising the poppy are the twats in the green army.

A Dub in Glasgo · 03-11-2012 11:42pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The only people politicising the poppy are the twats in the green army.

Ha ha, nice try. The red poppy is all about politics, any highly myoptic person can even see that!

round tower huntsman · 03-11-2012 11:46pm

the poppy is a fund raising exercise by the ba for vets. to wear a poppy is to support ba vets not only from ww1 or ww2 but also ireland campaigns,irag,afghanistan or any other imperialist road trip the ba has been on. no self respecting irishman could wear a poppy. why do some wear it?.........cos we have a large population of cap tipping quislings in ireland.

Fratton Fred · 03-11-2012 11:46pm

gurramok wrote: »

Any figures? We know there were many "collateral damage" incidences of slaughter of Iraqi and Afghan kids by the British forces, ya know those wedding atrocities.

Was there?

It's funny, according to Nodin, no one has a problem with UN missions.

Unless it's the British, obviously. It's a shame the Irish don't have the balls to actually use their army properly then the poppy wouldn't be so relevant.

philologos · 03-11-2012 11:47pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Very noble indeed although this totally ignores the current politicisation of the red poppy. Would you wear the white poppy?

I'm not "politicising" anything by choosing to wear the red poppy. I believe that it is a good thing to remember the fallen on November 11th, and to think about conflict and war on that day.

It's quite bizarre how interested you and others are in how I decided to commemorate the dead at war.

Fratton Fred · 03-11-2012 11:50pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Ha ha, nice try. The red poppy is all about politics, any highly myoptic person can even see that!

Politicised by Irish nationalists, yes.

Fratton Fred · 03-11-2012 11:52pm

therewillbe wrote: »

I hate that flower or is it a weed?Brits and those who fought for them wear them out of some sort of respect.In my small minded opinion,Sod them all.Roll on the `16.

Ooh ah up da ra I said ooh ah up da ra.

A Dub in Glasgo · 03-11-2012 11:54pm

philologos wrote: »

I'm not "politicising" anything by choosing to wear the red poppy. I believe that it is a good thing to remember the fallen on November 11th, and to think about conflict and war on that day.

It's quite bizarre how interested you and others are in how I decided to commemorate the dead at war.

I am not claiming you are politicising it, I am saying the red poppy is a politicised symbol... there is a difference.

You failed to answer the question about the white poppy, would you wear one?

round tower huntsman · 03-11-2012 11:55pm

philologos wrote: »

I'm not "politicising" anything by choosing to wear the red poppy. I believe that it is a good thing to remember the fallen on November 11th, and to think about conflict and war on that day.

It's quite bizarre how interested you and others are in how I decided to commemorate the dead at war.

the poppy is a fundraising exercise its not soley about remembering the fallen from ww1. its raises money for ba vets that have servedin every imperialist deed of the empire. you are basically supporting the brit war machine. if you wear a poppy you support the ba's actions in ireland,iraq,afghansitan etc............
no other way of putting it.

A Dub in Glasgo · 03-11-2012 11:55pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Politicised by Irish nationalists, yes.

Very few Irish nationalists in Britain and yet I see a politicised symbol so it must be something else

gurramok · 03-11-2012 11:58pm

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Was there?

It's funny, according to Nodin, no one has a problem with UN missions.

Unless it's the British, obviously. It's a shame the Irish don't have the balls to actually use their army properly then the poppy wouldn't be so relevant.

You don't make sense and you never have. I don't remember Irish warplanes and tanks bombing Afghan and Iraqi civilians? Please elaborate oh Frederick.

Fratton Fred · 04-11-2012 12:14am

gurramok wrote: »

You don't make sense and you never have. I don't remember Irish warplanes and tanks bombing Afghan and Iraqi civilians? Please elaborate oh Frederick.

The British participation in the cirrent Afghan war is no different to the Irish presence in Chad.

In fact, the Afghan war is being carried out with the support of the Irish, except of course the Irish army is woefully underfunded and therefore cant play a useful role. If they could, it would take some pressure off the British army and therefore less severely wounded soldiers in Britain.

A few Irish soldiers coming home in body bags might educate a few people AMD stop some of the self righteous bull****.

Fratton Fred · 04-11-2012 12:19am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Very few Irish nationalists in Britain and yet I see a politicised symbol so it must be something else

Do you? Do you see lizard people as well?

Why would an Irish person wear a poppy ?

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