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Rangers FC lodge papers to go into administration

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Comments

  • #2942
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    The denial is gas


  • #2943
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    You're having a worse time understanding the difference between the club and the company behind it.


  • #2944
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    You're having a worse time understanding the difference between the club and the company behind it.

    Unreal...The club is the company.

    When Rangers FC face liquidation they will cease to exist.

    Everything is wiped.

    A new company has nothing to do with the fact the the old company was liquidated. It's a separate entity.


  • #2945
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    You're having a worse time understanding the difference between the club and the company behind it.

    If we follow your logic then we should be able to keep the title from 1891 ?
    Or wait, let me guess... 'that's different' ?

    Are you going to be trotting this "defence" out for the next few months until you finally grasp whats happening?


  • #2946
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    You're having a hard time grasping what liquidation is all about.
    It happened at Napoli didn't it? And they still have all their titles.


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  • #2947
    Jelle1880
    Registered Users Posts: 9,839 ✭✭✭Jelle1880


    ColeTrain wrote: »
    Unreal...The club is the company.

    When Rangers FC face liquidation they will cease to exist.

    Everything is wiped.

    A new company has nothing to do with the fact the the old company was liquidated. It's a separate entity.

    So before 1899 there was no Rangers ?

    For the last ****ing time: The club is not the company.

    The titles, trophies, honours,... were won by the players, the managers, the club members,... and not the company.

    The company is the legal entity, but that can always change without having any impact on the history of the club.

    It's been done by other clubs in the past, will be done in the future by other clubs too and it's only you lot who seem to be unwilling (because it's not that you're unable) to grasp this.

    Face it: Your wet dream of Rangers being completely gone won't happen, no matter how hard you claim it will happen.

    eagle eye: And with Charlton, with Fiorentina, with Middlesbrough,...


  • #2948
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It happened at Napoli didn't it? And they still have all their titles.
    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    So before 1899 there was no Rangers ?

    For the last ****ing time: The club is not the company.

    The titles, trophies, honours,... were won by the players, the managers, the club members,... and not the company.

    The company is the legal entity, but that can always change without having any impact on the history of the club.

    It's been done by other clubs in the past, will be done in the future by other clubs too and it's only you lot who seem to be unwilling (because it's not that you're unable) to grasp this.

    Face it: Your wet dream of Rangers being completely gone won't happen, no matter how hard you claim it will happen.

    eagle eye: And with Charlton, with Fiorentina, with Middlesbrough,...

    Starting a new co is all in the name, it's new. Rangers are being liquidated.

    How can Rangers 2012 claim to have won anything in 2010 when they weren't even born?


  • #2949
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Explain how what is currently happening Rangers differs from Airdrieonians?


  • #2950
    Eirebear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,014 ✭✭✭Eirebear


    Dempsey wrote: »
    Explain how what is currently happening Rangers differs from Airdrieonians?

    Airdrieonians went bust and didnt come back. They were refused entry into the league in favour of gretna (That worked well!)

    Airdrie Utd are what became of Clydebank after Ballantyne took control of them, changed their name and moved them to Airdrie.
    It could be argued that Airdrie Utd are closer to Clydebank than they are to Airdrieonians.

    That is not the plan, at the moment, for Rangers. They will not be taking over another clubs league share and they won't be coming back as another "club" in a purely football sense.


  • #2951
    bobmalooka
    Registered Users Posts: 1,521 ✭✭✭bobmalooka


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    So before 1899 there was no Rangers ?

    For the last ****ing time: The club is not the company.

    The titles, trophies, honours,... were won by the players, the managers, the club members,... and not the company.

    The company is the legal entity, but that can always change without having any impact on the history of the club.

    It's been done by other clubs in the past, will be done in the future by other clubs too and it's only you lot who seem to be unwilling (because it's not that you're unable) to grasp this.

    Face it: Your wet dream of Rangers being completely gone won't happen, no matter how hard you claim it will happen.

    eagle eye: And with Charlton, with Fiorentina, with Middlesbrough,...

    Jelle come friday morning there will be no football club operating from Ibrox called Rangers.

    IF at some stage in the future some clever businessman buys Ibrox and sets up a new football club it will be just that a new football club.

    Its not a change of legal entity, Rangers will cease to exist.....this week.

    There is no switching of assets or companies, the liquidators will try to sell the assets to the highest bidder(think of a closing down sale). Green will bring them to court saying his buddies Duff and Duffer said he can have them on the cheap and life will go on without ye're club.


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  • #2952
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Eirebear wrote: »
    Airdrieonians went bust and didnt come back. They were refused entry into the league in favour of gretna (That worked well!)

    Airdrie Utd are what became of Clydebank after Ballantyne took control of them, changed their name and moved them to Airdrie.
    It could be argued that Airdrie Utd are closer to Clydebank than they are to Airdrieonians.

    That is not the plan, at the moment, for Rangers. They will not be taking over another clubs league share and they won't be coming back as another "club" in a purely football sense.

    There is nothing different except the spin put on it by people. its 2 clubs going out of business replaced by 2 newcos. A club isnt defined by its SPL share either.


  • #2953
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/4371930/Rival-fans-want-Light-Blues-dumped-in-Div-3.html

    Opinions coming from supporters groups about how they feel their club should vote. Will clubs listen to their fans though?
    Aberdeen fans&#8217 wrote: »
    “Financial considerations should not be the first thing here — they should not over-ride integrity and fair play.

    “We keep hearing how financially important Rangers are to the SPL and that they should be given special consideration because of money.

    “But we gave figures to the club and they were scrutinised by the chief executive, who is an accountant, and he did not take issue with them.

    “It only takes 300 season ticket holders to wipe out the benefits of having Rangers in the SPL.

    Interesting comment about the financial impact they believe Rangers have on Aberdeen's finances which was not disputed by the club.


  • #2954
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    What seems to be a similar Irish example of this process is Cork City, in 2010 Cork City Investments FC Ltd was wound up and Liquidators were appointed. A NewCo was created, "Cork City FORAS Co-op", after the winding up order was issued and this NewCo was awarded a licence to play in the league.

    This NewCo bought the rights to the name "Cork City Football Club" off the liquidators of Cork City Investments FC Ltd and as this former holding company was still in existence during it's liquidation the NewCo was able to claim there was an unbroken continuity of Cork City FC when the name was bought off the liquidator. As a result the current Cork City FC dates it's foundation to 1984, not 2010, and lays claim to the 2 League titles and other trophies won by the OldCo.

    It all looks very similar to the Rangers plan and unless someone can point out a big difference it looks to me like the NewCo will be able to claim the tainted history.


  • #2955
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    What seems to be a similar Irish example of this process is Cork City, in 2010 Cork City Investments FC Ltd was wound up and Liquidators were appointed. A NewCo was created, "Cork City FORAS Co-op", after the winding up order was issued and this NewCo was awarded a licence to play in the league.

    This NewCo bought the rights to the name "Cork City Football Club" off the liquidators of Cork City Investments FC Ltd and as this former holding company was still in existence during it's liquidation the NewCo was able to claim there was an unbroken continuity of Cork City FC when the name was bought off the liquidator. As a result the current Cork City FC dates it's foundation to 1984, not 2010, and lays claim to the 2 League titles and other trophies won by the OldCo.

    It all looks very similar to the Rangers plan and unless someone can point out a big difference it looks to me like the NewCo will be able to claim the tainted history.

    The Airtricity League doesnt recognise their claim


  • #2956
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Dempsey wrote: »
    The Airticity League doesnt recognise their claim

    Ah I see, just checked the Airtricity League website and they have the year of foundation as 2009. Guess I was wrong so :p


  • #2957
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Say what you will but I'll know, you'll know and everybody else will know that the newco is really Glasgow Rangers. I've no ties to the club and don't even like them but their history will always be there and part of any new Rangers club. It doesn't matter what any league association says either.

    Fans follow a football club not a business and all thats going on here is pedantic business bull talk.


  • #2958
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Say what you will but I'll know, you'll know and everybody else will know that the newco is really Glasgow Rangers. I've no ties to the club and don't even like them but their history will always be there and part of any new Rangers club. It doesn't matter what any league association says either.

    Fans follow a football club not a business and all thats going on here is pedantic business bull talk.

    The business just pays the bills....:rolleyes:


  • #2959
    Savage Tyrant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,165 ✭✭✭Savage Tyrant


    Dempsey wrote: »
    The business just pays the bills....:rolleyes:

    Or doesn't. :pac:


  • #2960
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Savage Tyrant wrote: »
    Dempsey wrote: »
    The business just pays the bills....:rolleyes:

    Or doesn't. :pac:

    If a liquidation process begins this week how on earth will a football club emerge from the ashes in time for the new season? Surely Ibrox will be sold to try and repay some debt? Or tried to be sold anyway?

    Don't know too much about this so apologies if these questions have been dealt with.


  • #2961
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Say what you will but I'll know, you'll know and everybody else will know that the newco is really Glasgow Rangers. I've no ties to the club and don't even like them but their history will always be there and part of any new Rangers club. It doesn't matter what any league association says either.

    Fans follow a football club not a business and all thats going on here is pedantic business bull talk.

    Some people just do not understand what liquidation means.

    Glasgow Rangers, if liquidated will no longer exist, their history will always be there but it's laughable to suggest that it can be transferred and/or bought by a new team!

    As it stands Glasgow Rangers will die in 2012, other clubs may claim their legacy, in fact there might even be more than one, but whatever new club steps in to the gap will be just that, a new club.

    The more progressive Rangers fans should be delighted that finally they can lose all their baggage.


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  • #2962
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,213 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Any truth in rumours that Super Ally has walked away???!!!


  • #2963
    the realpigiron
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭the realpigiron


    Jelle1880 wrote: »
    What part of 'It will still be Rangers FC' did you not get ?

    Again, because you seem to be unable to grasp this: It's not the company that wins titles.

    Those titles have been won by Rangers FC, the football club.
    And if the company behind Rangers FC changes that doesn't mean the club is dead.

    We all know that the average Celtic fan will keep repeating this 'Your history is gone' crap ad nauseum, but that doesn't make it any more true.

    Why do you want to maintain your checkered history anyway. Lets face it Rangers history with their sectarian signing policy and numerous incidents of hooliganism with their supporters down the years is steeped in shame. Yeah they won some trophies and had some good players, but I think the establishment of a NewcoRangers with no baggage attached presents a real opportunity for Rangers fans to get behind a club with a fresh and untainted mandate. There is a kind of poetic justice and sense of karma to this whole saga when you think about it.


  • #2964
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    If a liquidation process begins this week how on earth will a football club emerge from the ashes in time for the new season? Surely Ibrox will be sold to try and repay some debt? Or tried to be sold anyway?

    Don't know too much about this so apologies if these questions have been dealt with.

    The administrators and Charles Green believe that they can have a new football club by tomorrow (or whatever subsequent deadline they retreat to), the reality will be that the liquidators will drive a hard bargain over assets and players can walk away from their contracts despite claims by Green & the admin.

    tl;dr, that row has yet to happen!


  • #2965
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,553 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    Any truth in rumours that Super Ally has walked away???!!!

    Chris McLaughlin confirms on twitter 48 minutes ago that McCoist has left Rangers without comment. This could just be a renegotiation of his contract with the newco, maybe they cant afford his current wage.

    EDIT
    Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

    Creditors meeting at Ibrox took 9 mins. 30 creditors were there. CVA officially rejected. Ally McCoist was there but didn't speak. #Rangers
    Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

    One #Rangers debenture holder said to me as he emerged 'the club is gone.'
    Chris McLaughlin ‏@BBCchrismclaug

    New trading name for #Rangers is The Rangers Football Club.

    Keith will love the new trading name!


  • #2966
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    I'm no Celtic fan, as is well documented on these pages, but it is absolutely ludicrous to think and say that once Rangers is liquidated that some new team/club can "buy" or "own" the history of the old club.

    As for those saying "the company is not the club" - you were happy to play along with the notion that it is for enough years, to ignore people saying it was doomed for long enough, to put your heads in the sand and go lalalalalalalallalacanthearyoulalalalalalaeverythingsoklalalalalalala for long enough, to wallow in the glory of the trophies won under suspicious circumstances, to dish out the stick to all around.

    When it was pointed out that there were misgivings, people were told to stfu, as long as you were winning, it was all rosey.

    THE CLUB made the mistakes, THE CLUB pays for them.

    History is not some tangible commodity.


  • #2967
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    If we were dealing with a mere name change, the new "entity" would not need to apply to the SPL, or to division 3. They need to apply as they are not the same club.

    Rangers are dead, and their history is just that now, history that will always be associated with a now defunct club. A new club needs to apply to be a member of the league, and starts with nothing in terms of cups and titles.


  • #2968
    latenia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭latenia


    The liquidation will be very interesting in terms of how they collateralise the assets. The rights to the name "Rangers FC" certainly has some value, but to expand on that, their history and other seemingly abstract ephemera probably has a price too-the right to use "54 times champions of Scotland" on merchandise for example, or to hang pictures of Jim Baxter or Ally McCoist on the corridors of Ibrox.
    If the new club (presumably a limited company) doesn't acquire these assets then I don't think they'll be legitimately able to claim that they are true heirs to Rangers' heritage.
    This situation didn't come about when Rangers went bust-it happened at the moment they formed into a company because it was at this point that the entirety of the club's various facets became one single entity. The accounting department was the same as the goalkeeper was the same as the club crest was the same as the burger stall etc.
    The team is not seperate from the rest of the company so when the company no longer exists, the team no longer exists.


  • #2969
    latenia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭latenia


    Dempsey wrote: »


    New trading name for #Rangers is The Rangers Football Club.



    As if they'll be allowed to do this without bidding for the name at the liquidation. I couldn't form a new club called 'The Manchester United.'


  • #2970
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,909 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Dempsey wrote: »
    The denial is gas

    They have been in denial since the whole saga started, its absolutely pathetic and would be quite sad if i didnt get such a kick out of watching their deluded posts over the last few months. And still, some of them refuse to face reality:rolleyes:


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  • #2971
    Bob the Seducer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭Bob the Seducer


    latenia wrote: »
    As if they'll be allowed to do this without bidding for the name at the liquidation. I couldn't form a new club called 'The Manchester United.'

    Debatable, there's a good chance you could if the former club no longer existed.

    Chester F.C. (founded in 1885) changed their name to Chester City in 1983 and went bust in 2010. Following Chester City's winding up a new successor club was formed called... Chester F.C.


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