DART+ (DART Expansion)

murphaph · 24-07-2009 1:23pm #1

New propoganda here but it really whets the appetite.....who knows if we'll have the nerve to do it though....

Judgement Day · 24-07-2009 2:41pm

Well thanks for posting that...I certainly have a clearer picture in my mind now but I am still far from convinced about the Interconnector's merits.
Anybody can make a sexy video presentation but what about reality?

Incidentally the rail route map on the video takes some beating. Included were Kingscourt (now disconnected), Claremorris/Collooney (disconnected), Foynes (disconnected), Midleton/Youghal (disconnected and partially removed), Mullingar/Athlone (impassable), Athenry/Claremorris (impassable) and the best off all Waterford/Ballinacourty (removed completely some years ago). I hope their DART Undergound projections are more accurate.

murphaph · 24-07-2009 2:53pm

The best place to find merit in the Interconnector is in foreign cities which have already built theirs ;-)

Munich (built 1972 to connect their one-time disjointed network) is the best known example. Berlin also has a (much older) Stammstrecke (called the Stadtbahn to this day) however and it also forms the backbone of the network here.

London has obviously got Crossrail on the agenda and Glasgow has one in planning too.

Dublin isn't a special case which wouldn't benefir immensely from such a joining up of the disjointed bits.

ardmacha · 25-07-2009 12:43am

The Berlin S-Bahn is a wonder of transport, even if it did reach a peak in 1943!

But even closer to home we can see the benefits of joining lines, the central line in Belfast integrates the network and allows easy transfer between the three suburban routes and the two longer distance services.

Chris_533976 · 25-07-2009 10:31am

And Munich are going to build a second one because the first is totally full

murphaph · 25-07-2009 11:34am

ardmacha wrote: »

The Berlin S-Bahn is a wonder of transport, even if it did reach a peak in 1943!

Unfortunately it's at it's lowest point since the war these days! Google S-Bahn Berlin chaos etc. to find out why...

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1912399,00.html

A sorry state of affairs however, the way they get information out to passengers and supply replacement buses and extra U-Bahns makes it bearable for most people. Even the current crippled network in Berlin is 100 times better than what poor old Dublin has. The interconnector is vital in this regard.

paulm17781 · 25-07-2009 12:53pm

It's actually a pretty good video. Boring and long, but I already know about the IC. For those who don't, it is the first decent attempt I've seen to explain in. Fair play to IE?*

* Yes, I know they should be focussing on services and not glossy videos etc.

serfboard · 25-07-2009 3:40pm

paulm17781 wrote: »

It's actually a pretty good video.

I agree. And while I'm not in favour of PR vs. spending the money on services, in this case, if you want the general public to buy into it, you have to explain it. And I think it does.

For example, I'm familiar in a very basic way with the IC, but I was unaware until I saw it, of the plan to have the turnaround at Inchicore. Seems sensible to me.

Davy · 25-07-2009 3:51pm

murphaph wrote: »

New propoganda here but it really whets the appetite.....who knows if we'll have the nerve to do it though....

Anyone having problems with the link?

murphaph · 25-07-2009 3:58pm

Davy wrote: »

Anyone having problems with the link?

Yeah it seems broken now (good old IE). The video was hosted on Youtube so here's the actual page (sans other good info, schematics etc. that were on the IE page).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_M6JyxNnDY

Davy · 25-07-2009 4:01pm

Ye cheers, it seems the whole site is down, not just the link

Enbee · 25-07-2009 9:55pm

I've had no problems with the link.

That video would have been relatively inexpensive to produce and I'm glad it's out there as it does a pretty good job of explaining how this scheme will plug a gaping missing link in Dublin's public transport infrastructure.

L1011 · 25-07-2009 10:14pm

I was surprised to see them include the PPT on their maps in the video, usually to date Interconnector stuff has airbrushed the PPT out of history!

BluntGuy · 25-07-2009 10:25pm

That video has been up there for a while - not very interesting if you already knew a fair amount about the project, but does a nice job summing everything up.

What is interesting are the newest schematics (Inchicore etc.). Seems a surface level station is now going to be built along with the main project, as opposed to just making provision for it.

The proposed network looks lovely but sometimes needs to brush out the Metro West and one or two of the proposed Luas lines because they simply aren't going to happen before 2015. I want to see a realistic transport schematic for 2015.

Chris_533976 · 25-07-2009 10:36pm

Good video overall, explains everything. I like the way that the Luas is mentioned, I'd have thought that CIE would conveniently leave that out (!!!)

BluntGuy · 25-07-2009 11:54pm

http://tentea.ec.europa.eu/download/project_fiches/ireland/fichenew_2007ie26010s_final.pdf

Seems the EU gave us quite a chunk of money to fund the railway order and detailed design stages of the project.

A June 2011 date has been given as the end date of the implementation schedule for this stage.

ardmacha · 27-07-2009 12:08am

Unfortunately it's at it's lowest point since the war these days! Google S-Bahn Berlin chaos etc. to find out why...

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...912399,00.html

They should bring back the old rolling stock they sold to Pyongyang, or was this only U-bahn stock. Even the DDR had better service than Dublin. Having the metro west etc on maps only confuses the issue, the interconnector is more important.

Enbee · 27-07-2009 1:09pm

U-Bahn stock according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyongyang_Metro

Is the consensus also that the interconnector is more important than Metro North?

I only ask because as an emigrant who spends just a few days per year in Dublin I have limited experience of public transport there. (I'm also lucky enough to stay in the city centre and so rarely venture out into the burbs.) I understand that Metro West may be postponed for financial reasons and that other projects could be at risk.

spacetweek · 27-07-2009 2:47pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

A June 2011 date has been given as the end date of the implementation schedule for this stage.

I certainly hope they will have broken ground on the project before that. They'd need to, to have it ready for 2015.

D.L.R. · 31-07-2009 4:06am

Hmmmmmmm looks promising

serfboard · 31-07-2009 12:58pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

Hmmmmmmm looks promising

Well it may have ... but perhaps you could tell us what it was - when I clicked the link I got "this job is no longer available" ... so, maybe it does not look so promising now!

D.L.R. · 31-07-2009 2:22pm

serfboard wrote: »

Well it may have ... but perhaps you could tell us what it was - when I clicked the link I got "this job is no longer available" ... so, maybe it does not look so promising now!

The link has changed. Here is the quote, job is still up on jobs.ie

Rail Tunnell Project Planner - 70k

Project Planner (Rail Tunnel) - Dublin - €70,000

Our client is a specialist in their field and have been established for decades. They are currently recruiting for a Project Planner on a two year contract to implement and plan a new underground rail tunnel. This is a full-time role with an immediate start.

Duties Include:
* Developing and maintaining the rail tunnelling project programme
* Reviewing the consultant's construction programme
* Working in a team and to monthly, quarterly and yearly deadlines
* Analysing the rates of TBM progression

Requirements:
* A third level qualification in civil or structural engineering
* Construction experience as a project planner in a tunnelling job a must

Benefits Package:
* Base Salary of approximately €70,000 per annum
* 25 Days Paid Holidays
* Free Parking

Interviews start taking place from Tuesday 21st July.

I wonder what tunnel that might be

Enbee · 01-08-2009 12:20pm

The words 'start' and 'immediate' are certainly very promising.

G_R · 05-08-2009 2:17am

i saw in the indo a few days ago that Minister Dempsey said that MN and Int will defo go ahead despite the downturn.

i tried ta find a link for it but the irish indo website jus doesnt like me. if someone else cud it'd be great.

i hate ta jinx it but its startin to look like it might actually go ahead

BluntGuy · 05-08-2009 2:54am

dannym08 wrote: »

i saw in the indo a few days ago that Minister Dempsey said that MN and Int will defo go ahead despite the downturn.

i tried ta find a link for it but the irish indo website jus doesnt like me. if someone else cud it'd be great.

i hate ta jinx it but its startin to look like it might actually go ahead

I don't read trash like the Indo but he has said it various times over the past few months, doesn't really mean anything until we see contracts signed and shovels on the ground...

You may be talking about this:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/europe-asked-to-fund-rail-projects-1838248.html

There was a similar story in the Irish Times a week back or so.

Also (related to the above article), check this out for piece of stupidity:

http://www.sligochampion.ie/lifestyle/ministers-priorities-dont-include-west-1847460.html

My favourite quote:

What better project is there in the country than the creation of a badly needed rail service to cover the western seaboard? Surely, it should get priority over two further rail schemes for the Capital?

There is so much wrong with this statement I don't even know where to start.

murphaph · 05-08-2009 12:45pm

I wish we could strike oil and be wealthy beyond our dreams so we could just build the WRC to high spec, with modern rolling stock running at high frequency and good speed, so we can finally say "I told you so" to the likes of the moron who wrote that piece when it turns out to be a total failure. POPULATION DENSITY IS TOO LOW for the WRC to work. It's already relatively low in Dublin but still hundreds/thousands of times higher than along the WRC.

invincibleirish · 05-08-2009 12:54pm

Nice find BluntGuy, there's a similar trainspotter article published in the 'County' section of the Examiner yesterday extolling the virtues of extending the recently re-opened Midleton line back out to Youghal and onto Dungarvan and Waterford.

BluntGuy · 05-08-2009 1:26pm

murphaph wrote: »

I wish we could strike oil and be wealthy beyond our dreams so we could just build the WRC to high spec, with modern rolling stock running at high frequency and good speed, so we can finally say "I told you so" to the likes of the moron who wrote that piece when it turns out to be a total failure. POPULATION DENSITY IS TOO LOW for the WRC to work. It's already relatively low in Dublin but still hundreds/thousands of times higher than along the WRC.

Indeed.

That article just reeks of a misplaced sense of entitlement.

But this is how elections are won, give these idiots FF biscuits to buy their votes while essential projects get mere crumbs.

It's time Fianna Fail started thinking beyond the Pale. If it doesn't it will pay a heavy price at the next General Election just as it did in the Locals in June.

Maybe it's time these people starting thinking be-...

Well just thinking to be quite frank.

BluntGuy · 05-08-2009 1:30pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

Nice find BluntGuy, there's a similar trainspotter article published in the 'County' section of the Examiner yesterday extolling the virtues of extending the recently re-opened Midleton line back out to Youghal and onto Dungarvan and Waterford.

I must've missed it, is there an online web link to this article? I seem to have misplaced that section of the paper.

If not, could you give a general outline of what it said?

invincibleirish · 07-08-2009 4:13pm

I can't find it online either BluntGuy, the article just mentioned how great it was Midleton was re-opening and how impressive the new stations were (journalist compares them to the LUAS for some reason). Then the author talks of his hopes that the line is reopened to Youghal and marvels at how great it would if a new line is built onto Dungarvan and joins up with the old railway there to Waterford. Needless to say he didn't speculate on the cost of it all.

BluntGuy · 07-08-2009 4:18pm

invincibleirish wrote: »

I can't find it online either BluntGuy, the article just mentioned how great it was Midleton was re-opening and how impressive the new stations were (journalist compares them to the LUAS for some reason). Then the author talks of his hopes that the line is reopened to Youghal and marvels at how great it would if a new line is built onto Dungarvan and joins up with the old railway there to Waterford. Needless to say he didn't speculate on the cost of it all.

Or indeed if there would be any tangible economic, social or environmental benefits beyond having a nice-looking railway line to gawk mindlessly at.

Extension to Midleton? Yes.

Youghal? Perhaps, need to do my research.

The rest of it? A fallacy.

brandodub · 08-08-2009 5:03pm

IR clip very good but I do hope it gets the go ahead.I have to agree Dublin is crying out for this sort of train service

krugerrand · 22-08-2009 8:55pm

The Inchicore Station will be an excellent addition to the Inchicore area. Let's get this project started.

Chris_533976 · 23-08-2009 9:13am

I wonder if this project will be delayed to divert funds to the Malahide repair

RobD_ · 23-08-2009 9:44am

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I wonder if this project will be delayed to divert funds to the Malahide repair

well that was part of the scheme to be electrified so maybe it'll hurry them up :P

G_R · 23-08-2009 10:45pm

whats the latest on this from people in the know on here?

from what ive heard (tru media so probably not the most reliable sources) its defo going ahead if and when ABP approve.

i know ABP wanted some more info from the RPA. whats the status on that has it been delivered to them yet or when will it be?

any info you have would be good thanks

GerardKeating · 23-08-2009 10:53pm

Chris_533976 wrote: »

I wonder if this project will be delayed to divert funds to the Malahide repair

Media reports that Malahide will cost €25 million to repair, DART underground is a billion or two, so wont make much of a dent in the budget.

BluntGuy · 23-08-2009 11:00pm

dannym08 wrote: »

i know ABP wanted some more info from the RPA. whats the status on that has it been delivered to them yet or when will it be?

I think you're thinking of Metro North. ABP asked RPA for more information and gave them, I think, a deadline of October. Consequently, according to this, at least, heavy construction work won't begin until 2011 at the earliest.

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=43654-qqqx=1.asp

DART Undeground, well, we don't have much information on, as of yet. All we know is the railway order application is due to be made by the end of the year. I reckon we'll see heavy construction work on this project starting in 2011 as well - around the same time as MN. It seems MN's delay has given Irish Rail's Interconnector project time to "catch-up".

G_R · 23-08-2009 11:05pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

I think you're thinking of Metro North. ABP asked RPA for more information and gave them, I think, a deadline of October. Consequently, according to this, at least, heavy construction work won't begin until 2011 at the earliest.

http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=43654-qqqx=1.asp

DART Undeground, well, we don't have much information on, as of yet. All we know is the railway order application is due to be made by the end of the year. I reckon we'll see heavy construction work on this project starting in 2011 as well - around the same time as MN. It seems MN's delay has given Irish Rail's Interconnector project time to "catch-up".

damn, im always getting those 2 confused

sooner this project is started the better,
thanks blunt

ihatewallies · 24-08-2009 6:36am

you can safely ignore anything the Sunday Business Toast writes about MN.

The National Enquirer would be more accurate.

Empire o de Sun · 24-08-2009 9:52pm

Just thought this might interest some people here

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00261943.pdf

it was a letter to object to a development, planning ref: 2219/09

Chris_533976 · 24-08-2009 10:22pm

Its a very badly written letter, whoever wrote it

krugerrand · 26-08-2009 4:52pm

Quite rightly the planning application was refused.

The reason given by DCC:
"Having regard to Policy 7.4.0 (Rail Interchange) Of the Dublin City Development Plan which states that Dublin City Council support the measures currently being implemented or proposed by the Rail Procurement Agency (RPA), Iarnrod Eireann, Dublin Transportation Office (DTO) Council and other agencies, to enhance capacity on existing lines/services and provide new infrastructure including the proposed Interconnector route linking Heuston Station to Spencer Dock, the proposed development would materially contravene the provisions of the Dublin City Development Plan 2005-2011 and the proper planning and sustainable development of the area."

So there elephant storage limited !

G_R · 27-08-2009 3:33pm

for anyone who is interested, IR have put a pretty decent video on youtube about the project.

this one:

Empire o de Sun · 27-08-2009 7:10pm

That video has some good graphics explaining how the system will work.

G_R · 27-08-2009 7:24pm

thanks furet:D

25-11-2009 1:41pm

Sorry to be dragging up an old thread but why do we need an underground Dart connector between Heuston and Connolly? Is that not already well served with the Luas going door to door? And there is a Dublin Bus feeder service.

And if it is needed, why don't IR use the existing link that goes under the Pheonix Park? Does that not link onto the existing Dart line at Connolly? If no I'm sure it goes close to it and it would be easier to join that up than building a new underground link.

zootroid · 25-11-2009 2:23pm

Why is it that any time there is an announcement about the interconnector, it seems to be the same information that is reported? I've been hearing for a while about plans for a tunnel from Docklands to Heuston, and the announcement on Monday told me nothing new.

Aard · 25-11-2009 2:59pm

@Foreign:
The interconnector doesn't connect Heuston with Connolly. It bypasses Connolly altogether. The reason for not using the Phoenix Park tunnel is that it goes nowhere near the city centre. The interconnector will go right through the CBD, where most people want to go.

mysterious · 25-11-2009 8:18pm

foreign wrote: »

Sorry to be dragging up an old thread but why do we need an underground Dart connector between Heuston and Connolly? Is that not already well served with the Luas going door to door? And there is a Dublin Bus feeder service.

And if it is needed, why don't IR use the existing link that goes under the Pheonix Park? Does that not link onto the existing Dart line at Connolly? If no I'm sure it goes close to it and it would be easier to join that up than building a new underground link.

Yes but we need a dart service that continues from Huesten to Connolly. There needs to be heavy rail and light rail movements to get through the city onto the next destination. This would allow commuters from the south to connect to the northern lines without stopping

The Luas line really connects Tallaght and south city with Huesten and city centre, plus its packed and needs relief. When the docklands line is open the Red line will be at full capacity.

There needs to be a proper intergrated rail service and it should of been done in the 80s when it was proposed. 30 years later hello.

Trick of the Tail · 25-11-2009 9:40pm

The line through the Phoenix Park tunnel does link Heuston to Connolly.

The line was upgraded about 2 years ago, new track and signalling, but IR only use it for stock movement and the occasional GAA special.

There is absolutely no reason why that shouldn't be used as an interconnector - apart from the illogical stubbornness of Irish Rail who love the idea of doing a 'big project'.

A.

DART+ (DART Expansion)

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