Iranian security beat up protester

20Cent · 10-06-2010 11:09am #1

Are we a sovereign nation or not?
Looks like our guests can't behave themselves.
Israel abusing our citizens and passports.
Iranian security beat up a protester in front on Gardai/tv cameras and they do nothing. Maybe they have diplomatic immunity but what the hell were the Gardai doing.
09/06 nine O'clock news at about 19.20 on rte player.

Grumpypants · 10-06-2010 11:26am

Are you sure thats right i looked up six one news on the 9th at that time its something about the leaving cert ??

20Cent · 10-06-2010 11:28am

Sorry nine o clock news will edit op.

wes · 10-06-2010 11:29am

Yeah, we should do something, but I think diplomatic immunity probably limits our options. Certainly, this kind of behaviour is unacceptabel from any security guards.

Grumpypants · 10-06-2010 11:56am

I like the bit where the guard comes in and says "hey stop it now"

Someone should explain that they might get away with this kind of thing at home but here its not acceptable and should be made issue and appoligy.

Merch · 10-06-2010 12:05pm

Any footage?

Nodin · 10-06-2010 12:20pm

Merch wrote: »

Any footage?

Play the section "UNSC backs new sanctions....", its in there

http://www.rte.ie/news/9news/

Disgraceful really. There was no need to go in that hard on the man, he made no attempt to attack the minister. A good armlock and a shove out the door was all that was needed.

Run_to_da_hills · 10-06-2010 1:25pm

Also here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6qNpY-dZv8&feature=player_embedded#!

prinz · 10-06-2010 1:55pm

Up to the government this one lads. They could declare the security guards to be unwanted in this State and inform Iran, giving them a certain time period to withdraw the security staff from the country or they would face arrest and deportation.

10-06-2010 2:07pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Also here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6qNpY-dZv8&feature=player_embedded#!

I watched this, and I fail to see any brutality by the Iranian security. The guy inside the place might not have been hitting out while being removed, but he sure as hell didn't comply. I didn't see any punches, kicks, or such. He was manhandled, which is fair enough in the circumstances.

If anything the part at the end when they go outside shows two Gardai wrestling someone into a van shows more aggression.

You're blowing this out of proportion. :rolleyes:

dvpower · 10-06-2010 2:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I watched this, and I fail to see any brutality by the Iranian security. The guy inside the place might not have been hitting out while being removed, but he sure as hell didn't comply. I didn't see any punches, kicks, or such. He was manhandled, which is fair enough in the circumstances.

If anything the part at the end when they go outside shows two Gardai wrestling someone into a van shows more aggression.

You're blowing this out of proportion. :rolleyes:

There was a point at about 50s where there was maybe a mild assault. I didn't see anyone being 'beat up'.

There was a point where they manhandled, with the aid of a Guard, a protester out of the room. Since there were Gardai present, they should probably have left it entirely to the Gardai.

I'd be uncomfortable with foreign security personnel taking any action against anyone, expecially where the lawful authorities are present.

Cuddlesworth · 10-06-2010 2:42pm

dvpower wrote: »

There was a point at about 50s where there was maybe a mild assault. I didn't see anyone being 'beat up'.

There was a point where they manhandled, with the aid of a Guard, a protester out of the room. Since there were Gardai present, they should probably have left it entirely to the Gardai.

I'd be uncomfortable with foreign security personnel taking any action against anyone, expecially where the lawful authorities are present.

I have seen bouncers do far worse in public.

prinz · 10-06-2010 2:45pm

There was allegations that one of the protestors was pushed down a full or part flight of stairs. No video of that.

Edit: Meh see it now, not as serious as I first thought.

20Cent · 10-06-2010 2:55pm

You can see one of the thugs boot him in the back on the way down the stairs. They should have been arrested and charged immediatly or else kicked out of the country.
Enough thugs here already.

10-06-2010 3:02pm

dvpower wrote: »

There was a point at about 50s where there was maybe a mild assault. I didn't see anyone being 'beat up'.

Exactly, and yet how many posters here are ranting about such behavior? :rolleyes:

The only "evidence" we have that the protester was kicked or punched was the comment by RTE themselves. There was no such video footage, and lets face it, they would have shown it if they had it. Also the comment about being pushed down the stairs? It looks more like the protester was running down the stairs with the security coming behind, after he'd been ejected from the room.

There was a point where they manhandled, with the aid of a Guard, a protester out of the room. Since there were Gardai present, they should probably have left it entirely to the Gardai.

I'd be uncomfortable with foreign security personnel taking any action against anyone, expecially where the lawful authorities are present.

I'd agree except it was an occasion where the Iranian Minister was present, and the Iranian security were still going to be responsible for his safety. If it was some public event, then I'd have no problem with saying they were out of line. However this was a very specific event, and frankly the security were in their rights to take anyone out who was causing a disturbance.

The people who were protesting outside were fine to do so in my eyes. But anybody who went inside is looking to create a sensation of some sort. The two protesters resisted being removed, and thats always going to result in force being used.

That it was the Iranian security that took action instead of the Gardai is a moot point. The protesters shouldn't have been there, and they were removed. Simple.

10-06-2010 3:03pm

20Cent wrote: »

You can see one of the thugs boot him in the back on the way down the stairs. They should have been arrested and charged immediatly or else kicked out of the country.
Enough thugs here already.

Ahh yes, Like the guy who kicks out at the cars as they're pulling away.. lovely.

prinz · 10-06-2010 3:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahh yes, Like the guy who kicks out at the cars as they're pulling away.. lovely.

How do you know he wasn't one of those arrested?

10-06-2010 3:11pm

prinz wrote: »

How do you know he wasn't one of those arrested?

I don't. Do you?

And as for a single supposed kick at a protester, hardly grounds from being arrested and kicked out of the country. The security did their jobs.

ejmaztec · 10-06-2010 3:12pm

The authorities obviously wanted the Iranians to feel at home, so didn't intervene.

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't. Do you?

And as for a single supposed kick at a protester, hardly grounds from being arrested and kicked out of the country. The security did their jobs.

Its securitys job to kick people in the back as they are walking down stairs in the opposite direction?

prinz · 10-06-2010 3:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't. Do you?

Nope, then again like I said the gardaí did their jobs.

Deleted User wrote: »

And as for a single supposed kick at a protester, hardly grounds from being arrested and kicked out of the country. The security did their jobs.

They may well have over stepped the mark. It is up to the gardaí to enforce the law of the land. It is not up to diplomatic security to throw hecklers out of a public forum. Was it invitation only? AFAIK it was open to anyone interested to attend.

20Cent · 10-06-2010 3:15pm

The guy who kicked the car at the end got grabbed by gardai.
The guys who manhandled two others off scot free.

Why is everyone so down on anger?
Its a legitimate expression, especially in this case.
The guys country has been taken over by a dictatorship that kills and tortures people. He has every right to be angry. He composed himself very well imho.
Should he just stand outside with a sign like a good little citizen?

10-06-2010 3:19pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

Its securitys job to kick people in the back as they are walking down stairs in the opposite direction?

Walking? Ahh yes, he was taking a slow calming stroll through the park, when these security guards jumped him for no reason.

1. He was in a place he shouldn't been unless he was willing to keep his mouth shut.
2. He shouted abuse and accusations in a forum totally unrelated to his issues.
3. He resisted being removed from the room.
4. And when removed from the room, he's starts to leg it down the stairs to avoid being held by them. (And I've ran down stairs in those older buildings before, and fell without about coming after me)

I don't really get why you seem to want to believe protesters to be absent of the responsibility for their actions/decisions. He placed himself in a position to receive attention by security or Gardai. He got it.

prinz · 10-06-2010 3:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really get why you seem to want to believe protesters to be absent of the responsibility for their actions/decisions. He placed himself in a position to receive attention by security or Gardai. He got it.

Attention from gardaí yes. The attention he got from Iranian security guards - no. They over stepped their mandate IMO.

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really get why you seem to want to believe protesters to be absent of the responsibility for their actions/decisions. He placed himself in a position to receive attention by security or Gardai. He got it.

Because he was thrown out and was leaving?

What reason did the Security guard have to kick him down the stairs?

10-06-2010 3:22pm

prinz wrote: »

They may well have over stepped the mark. It is up to the gardaí to enforce the law of the land. It is not up to diplomatic security to throw hecklers out of a public forum. Was it invitation only? AFAIK it was open to anyone interested to attend.

Open for anyone to attend and obey the rules of the forum. Oh, I guess there's a rule which says anyone can break into heckling the speaker, and causing a disturbance. If he hadn't caused a problem, he wouldn't have been ejected.

The guy who kicked the car at the end got grabbed by gardai.
The guys who manhandled two others off scot free.

Which neither of us know for certain.

Should he just stand outside with a sign like a good little citizen?

Simply put. Yes

prinz · 10-06-2010 3:23pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Open for anyone to attend and obey the rules of the forum. Oh, I guess there's a rule which says anyone can break into heckling the speaker, and causing a disturbance. If he hadn't caused a problem, he wouldn't have been ejected.

That's the role of the gardaí.

10-06-2010 3:25pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

Because he was thrown out and was leaving?

What reason did the Security guard have to kick him down the stairs?

Kick him down the stairs? Hardly. The camera showed no such actions. The possibility of a kick being thrown at him at one stage, but your comment throws up images of someone being chased down a stairs with kicks raining from all directions.

Tell me something. Do you believe he would have left on his own, if the security guards had just ejected him from the room, and then returned inside?

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Open for anyone to attend and obey the rules of the forum. Oh, I guess there's a rule which says anyone can break into heckling the speaker, and causing a disturbance. If he hadn't caused a problem, he wouldn't have been ejected.

Theres a rule that says that once someone breaks the rule Security thugs have carte blanche to do what they want?

prinz · 10-06-2010 3:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Tell me something. Do you believe he would have left on his own, if the security guards had just ejected him from the room, and then returned inside?

The security guards should have left the people with authority eject and escort the man from the premises.

10-06-2010 3:27pm

prinz wrote: »

That's the role of the gardaí.

Any idea if its not the role of the security of any visiting minister when he's in attendance? Somehow I suspect American security would behave just the same if it had been one of their ministers getting such a reaction, or the British, etc.

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Kick him down the stairs? Hardly. The camera showed no such actions. The possibility of a kick being thrown at him at one stage, but your comment throws up images of someone being chased down a stairs with kicks raining from all directions.

Tell me something. Do you believe he would have left on his own, if the security guards had just ejected him from the room, and then returned inside?

No, my comment doesnt "throw up images" of that.

you're hyperbolic attempts at misdirection do, I said he was kicked down the stairs, he was kicked as he was going down the stairs, is that hard to follow? Or are too many images being thrown into your head?

And yet again, another pointless comment. If he left or not on his own is irrelvant, Iranian security guards dont have the authorrity to go around beating people up here.

20Cent · 10-06-2010 3:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Open for anyone to attend and obey the rules of the forum. Oh, I guess there's a rule which says anyone can break into heckling the speaker, and causing a disturbance. If he hadn't caused a problem, he wouldn't have been ejected.

Which neither of us know for certain.

Simply put. Yes

I'd say he expected to be ejected, its the beating by the thugs I have a problem with. It was a valid protest imho.

The clip from the News shows the guy who kicked the car being grabbed by Gardai so it is known for certain. The Iranian thugs haven't heard of anything happening to them.

Fortunatly some people stand up to thugs and dictators and don't stand outside politely waving a banner (in Iran he's probably end up in a torture chamber for that).

10-06-2010 3:29pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

Theres a rule that says that once someone breaks the rule Security thugs have carte blanche to do what they want?

Where are you getting "carte blanche to do what they want"? Did they take out battons and smack him over the head? Did they spray him with mace? Did they tazer him?

The manhandled him out.

prinz wrote:

The security guards should have left the people with authority eject and escort the man from the premises.

The Gardai should have been quicker to respond, and to take control. They didn't. What does that suggest to you?

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:32pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Where are you getting "carte blanche to do what they want"? Did they take out battons and smack him over the head? Did they spray him with mace? Did they tazer him?

The manhandled him out.

What is this utter rubbish?

Tell me Klaz, how far should they be allowed to go?

Obviously you're against Tazers and BAttons.

So how about just their bare hands? Should they be allowe to have one hold him down while three others kick him? Should one hold him while the rest start punching him?

Maybe they can just choke him till he passes out.

10-06-2010 3:40pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

No, my comment doesnt "throw up images" of that.

Strange, it does for me.

And yet again, another pointless comment. If he left or not on his own is irrelvant, Iranian security guards dont have the authorrity to go around beating people up here.

You have an amazing ability to exaggerate or maybe you're not thinking about the phrases you're using?

20Cent wrote:

I'd say he expected to be ejected, its the beating by the thugs I have a problem with. It was a valid protest imho.

There are two video clips on this thread. Perhaps you have another clip which shows where he was beat up?

Fortunatly some people stand up to thugs and dictators and don't stand outside politely waving a banner (in Iran he's probably end up in a torture chamber for that).

And thus they give all protesters a bad name. I believe in the right to protest. However I believe in the use of protesting in an intelligent manner. I have no problem with them protesting or even saying anything during the presentation. My problem is that they resisted being removed, and now people here are blowing it all out of proportion using terms like " Beating by Thugs", or "getting kicked down the stairs". I'd have no issue if they said their bit, and then left peacefully without any struggle.

The video's show them going manhandled out. There are no punches or kicked shown. The one point of a kick could easily be the security guard walking down the stairs after the protester on the last part of the stairs.

Sensationalism.

tricky D · 10-06-2010 3:43pm

Jeez, it's all very, very mild stuff. The security isn't great (the manhandling is poor) and they've likely got diplomatic immunity anyway. I remember bumping into Clinton a few years ago and the security he had (no Gardaí anywhere near) was armed, vested and enforcing no go zones in a public place. This stuff is so tame in comparison. Both protesters ended up walking out when they wouldn't be so lucky in most other places. Don't see any beatings, a kick in the arse yes, but beatings, no way.

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange, it does for me.

You have an amazing ability to exaggerate or maybe you're not thinking about the phrases you're using?

The video's show them going manhandled out. There are no punches or kicked shown. The one point of a kick could easily be the security guard walking down the stairs after the protester on the last part of the stairs.

Sensationalism.

And you have an amazing ability to lie.

This isnt a case of one opinion or another, I mean theres actual video footage of whats happening.

It is quite baffling.

"You cant be sure he kicked him! He could have just been stepping really far out and lost his balance and connected with his back!"

10-06-2010 3:43pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

What is this utter rubbish?

Why? Because I disagree with you?

Tell me Klaz, how far should they be allowed to go?

Personally, I think they did nothing wrong in how they handled the situation.

Obviously you're against Tazers and BAttons.

So how about just their bare hands? Should they be allowe to have one hold him down while three others kick him? Should one hold him while the rest start punching him?

Maybe they can just choke him till he passes out.

You're missing the point. Beyond manhandling him out of the place, they didn't seek to do any damage to him. neither of the video's show the type of aggression which you seem to believe them to have done.

Show me a video which does show them punching and kicking the guy, and I'll jump on the bandwagon and cry abuse.

10-06-2010 3:47pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

And you have an amazing ability to lie.

Be careful. Leave that crap out and deal with the substance of the post.

This isnt a case of one opinion or another, I mean theres actual video footage of whats happening.

It is quite baffling.

Yes, quite. I can't understand where the beating and kicking has come from. Quite baffling. :rolleyes:

"You cant be sure he kicked him! He could have just been stepping really far out and lost his balance and connected with his back!"

I didn't even suggest that. I said that the video doesn't show any clear kicks. It could easily be the view of his legs as he's going down the stairs. I re-watched the clip 4 times, and at the end I couldn't be sure it was a kick. I surely didn't see it connect with the protester.

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? Because I disagree with you?

Personally, I think they did nothing wrong in how they handled the situation.

You're missing the point. Beyond manhandling him out of the place, they didn't seek to do any damage to him. neither of the video's show the type of aggression which you seem to believe them to have done.

Show me a video which does show them punching and kicking the guy, and I'll jump on the bandwagon and cry abuse.

What the video does show is them kicking him while hes going down the stairs, it shows them kicking him. Why do you keep on insisting it doesnt?

And wow, another dodge there. Answer honestly, how far should they be allowed to go?

dvpower · 10-06-2010 3:50pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I have seen bouncers do far worse in public.

I'd hold foreign diplomatic security personnel to a higher standard.
How they behave reflects on their country, and they are after all guests in another country. They should show as much restraint as they possibly can.

10-06-2010 3:53pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

What the video does show is them kicking him while hes going down the stairs, it shows them kicking him. Why do you keep on insisting it doesnt?

And wow, another dodge there. Answer honestly, how far should they be allowed to go?

No dodge. I've said they acted properly in manhandling him out.

And I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Fuhrer · 10-06-2010 3:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No dodge. I've said they acted properly in manhandling him out.

And I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

Its not a dodge?

Than are you incapable of actual reading?

I asked you how far they should be allowed to go, you havent answer once. Where you're getting this "Repeating myself" rubbish from is beyond me.

dvpower · 10-06-2010 3:58pm

Fuhrer wrote: »

What the video does show is them kicking him while hes going down the stairs, it shows them kicking him. Why do you keep on insisting it doesnt?

Are we all looking at the same video? There may have been a kick at about 27s, but the camera doesn't catch it clearly (I think I'd have to watch it frame by frame). If I was on a jury in this case, I don't think I'd accept it.

prinz · 10-06-2010 3:59pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Any idea if its not the role of the security of any visiting minister when he's in attendance?

Protecting the diplomatic staff is in their remit. Policing the public is not. Local law enforcement takes priority.

Coillte_Bhoy · 10-06-2010 4:31pm

meditraitor · 10-06-2010 4:43pm

"Iranian security beats up protester" haha...... thats not a beating.

You cant beat a good exaggeration..........

BluePlanet · 10-06-2010 4:44pm

prinz wrote: »

The security guards should have left the people with authority eject and escort the man from the premises.

In fairness there were guards there and they didn't seem too bothered.
The security guys had a good handle on the situation.

20Cent · 10-06-2010 4:45pm

BluePlanet wrote: »

In fairness there were guards there and they didn't seem too bothered.
The security guys had a good handle on the situation.

Guards probably didn't expect them to kick the guy down the stairs.

meditraitor · 10-06-2010 4:49pm

20Cent wrote: »

Guards probably didn't expect them to kick the guy down the stairs.

The Guards were probably expecting the Iranian security to wip out a nuclear warhead and bounce it of the protestors head;)

Iranian security beat up protester

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