TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

Pete_Cavan · 20-06-2010 11:05am

Nuttzz wrote: »

Why does the NRA need to develop MSA's at all

Cant they just tender them out per route. the succesful bidder pays X for motorway access per year. There is no need to PPP or any public money needed IMHO

Going down the PPP route ensures all aspects, including on/off ramps to the motorway and the MSA itself meet minimum standards. Once the current PPP contracts expire the cost of the MSA will have been paid off new contracts for operating all the MSAs will be very valuable and provide a great source of income for the NRA.

Nuttzz · 20-06-2010 4:03pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Going down the PPP route ensures all aspects, including on/off ramps to the motorway and the MSA itself meet minimum standards. Once the current PPP contracts expire the cost of the MSA will have been paid off new contracts for operating all the MSAs will be very valuable and provide a great source of income for the NRA.

The tender can cover all the minimum standards and specs for the motorway as part of the operating licence. The PPP contracts expire in 20-30 years, licensing them now and getting them built privately brings in revenue from day 1 of operation

L1011 · 30-06-2010 10:47pm

M4 ones today looked as identiclly part-finished as they have for ages. Facilities blocks up and covered in (roof/wall panels/glass), supports for two canopies up on each, no pumps, unfinished ground works...

There are meant to open 'in August' I believe. Thats only 5-8 weeks away.

Amtmann · 30-06-2010 10:52pm

MYOB wrote: »

M4 ones today looked as identiclly part-finished as they have for ages. Facilities blocks up and covered in (roof/wall panels/glass), supports for two canopies up on each, no pumps, unfinished ground works...

There are meant to open 'in August' I believe. Thats only 5-8 weeks away.

I saw that yesterday. The M4 is the best road in the country.

notel70 · 02-07-2010 6:49pm

Furet wrote: »

I saw that yesterday. The M4 is the best road in the country.

I would agree except for the cats eyes from balinasloe to galway, they are a disgrace, why are they so big and you cant but not driver over them when changing lane

Chris_5339762 · 02-07-2010 7:15pm

I'd kiss the tarmac on the Ballinasloe to Galway bit if it wasnt illegal to stop to do it. Best bit of motorway in the country by a mile.

Carawaystick · 03-07-2010 1:00am

Furet wrote: »

I saw that yesterday. The M4 is the best road in the country.

I'd have to disagree - the M4 has one of the worst Motorway/Motorway junctions in the country, 500m advance notice of the split with the M6.
Badly signed and badly designed and the third most expensive to boot.

They also didn't take debit cards at the turnpikes

The junction layout at Maynooth is poor also.

Jayuu · 03-07-2010 11:39am

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'd have to disagree - the M4 has one of the worst Motorway/Motorway junctions in the country, 500m advance notice of the split with the M6.
Badly signed and badly designed and the third most expensive to boot.

The signage problem at the M4/M6 split and the previous junction could be easily solved if we had an advance warning sign similar to this one which exists on the M1 (Southbound) at Lisburn in Northern Ireland.

03-07-2010 12:09pm

notel70 wrote: »

I would agree except for the cats eyes from balinasloe to galway, they are a disgrace, why are they so big and you cant but not driver over them when changing lane

You must overtake like Lewis Hamilton to be able to switch lanes without hitting at least one!

L1011 · 03-07-2010 2:58pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The junction layout at Maynooth is poor also.

Blame the planners for:

1: Allowing a business park to be slapped on the junction
2: Not requiring the business park to build either a larger scale full dumbell or roundabout interchange rather than the half-arsed halfdumbell they did build.

notel70 · 04-07-2010 2:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You must overtake like Lewis Hamilton to be able to switch lanes without hitting at least one!

Think you misread my post what im saying is that there is no way anyone driving above 100kmph can switch lanes on that road without going over the cats eyes, they are very uncomfortable to drive over(on 18inch wheels anyway) and also do not feel like they are doing my wheels any favors. I do not have this problem once I pass the ballinasloe exit;).

Amtmann · 05-07-2010 11:17am

AROUND 300 new jobs are to be created with the opening of the first motorway service areas in the country.

Irish company Applegreen has begun recruiting staff to fill the jobs, which will be created when the rest areas -- incorporating Burger King and Costa Coffee restaurants, showers, rest areas, playgrounds, and fuel outlets -- open in counties Dublin, Louth and Kildare.

The full and part-time jobs will be mainly in food service, with additional jobs in retail, cleaning and maintenance.

Construction is in the final stages, with the Lusk northbound site expected to be the first to open in September or October. Sites at Castlebellingham and Enfield will follow.

The project represents an investment of more than €70m by the Superstop consortium, which also includes Top Oil and Pierse Contracting.

Petrogas, the Irish firm that operates the Applegreen filling stations, recently reported that full-year profits plummeted to €1.7m last year from €5.4m in the previous year, but insisted it is going ahead with planned expansions.

Director of operations Joe Barrett said the investment was a demonstration of the firm's commitment to providing quality to Irish drivers.

"We have invested heavily in the Irish economy across our network and this is just the latest demonstration of our commitment to provide outstanding value and quality to the Irish motorist."

Applegreen is the country's largest independent forecourt retailer, with 57 sites in the Republic and an expanding network in the UK. Established in 2004, it employs more than 650 people.

The news is a welcome boost for the Government after latest Central Statistics Office figures showed unemployment last month rose to a 16-year high of 13.4%.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/motorway-stations-300-jobs-on-the-way-2246299.html

Having done a serious amount of driving last week, including Cork-Navan and Cork-Dublin several times, I can really appreciate now how absolutely necessary these are.

L1011 · 05-07-2010 1:03pm

The problem is these are down there with the least necessary of the lot of them - well Lusk (due to the existing Applegreen semi-services) and Enfield (proximity to Dublin and the Applegreen semi-services at Celbridge / 2x24hr stations at Maynooth junctions) anyway.

My job requires insane volumes of driving - as I've said before I've driven every inch of HQDC on the island and theres probably less than a few hundred KM of national primary/secondary I haven't covered - and I can see there are far worse gaps.

The entire M9 - its quite some distance off the N9 at many areas and the N9 was poorly served to begin with, the M6 after Athlone - long distances between junctions, junctions far from civilisation (Loughrea for instance), junctions where the nearby stations aren't 24hr.

The M11 and M20 stations being tacked on to their PPPs will just make the lack of stations on the M6/7/8/9 look more ridiculous.

Chris_5339762 · 05-07-2010 6:15pm

The M20 station will be a huge failure as its far too close to Cork to make anyone need to use it

whyulittle · 13-07-2010 9:10pm

Seems to be a bit more activity on the M4 sites lately. A fair bit of ground works going on, and noticed safety netting hanging from the forecourt canopies this morning.

ClareVisitor · 13-07-2010 10:19pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The M20 station will be a huge failure as its far too close to Cork to make anyone need to use it

You'd be surprised, people travelling to Cork may stop off to freshen up before they hit the city. Scratchwood services at the bottom of the M1 as you go into London has been going for years. As I used to live just a mile from the end of the motorway myself I had no use for it, but people must be using it or it would have surely closed.

csd · 14-07-2010 8:08am

Here's a shot of the progress on the southbound M1 south MSA, taken Sunday:

Sully · 03-08-2010 10:37pm

I was reading Sean Kelly, Fine Gael MEP for Ireland South, newsletter today. Spotted something which I felt was worthy of discussion, or at least a mention.

I condemned the ham-fisted rollout of Motorway Service Stations on Ireland's new motorways.
The NRA has closed to the door to the private sector in the past, monopolising the construction of Motorway Service Areas. I have been contacted by a concerned constituent who is willing to build a service area but has been closed out by the NRA.
We now have a situation where the Government does not have the money to build Service Stations in Limerick, Cork, Waterford, Wexford and Cavan.
There is a simple solution to this problem which is let the private sector build them, this is best practice in other EU Member States and does not involve reinventing the wheel. All the NRA has to do is assign a plot of land for development and let the private sector construct the necessary access routes, buildings and so on.
Now that straitened times require creative thinking, the NRA should re-examine its ludicrous practices and allow the private sector to play its role in providing these necessary services.

He thinks, from what I gather, the private sector should be permitted to build service stations since the NRA are so damn slow and seem now not to have money to complete the constructions planned.

Having traveled a lot of motorways and felt the need to pull in for a "pit stop" or even a refuel - I find it most infuriating that there is hardly any on our motorway network. I cant get over the lack of foresight by the Irish government and the NRA - these should have been built at the exact same time, money allocated and planning sorted. However, there is not much good complaining about what they didn't do. We should now look forward and see what we can do.

The countries drivers need service stations on these motorways. Without them, in my opinion, its a major safety risk. Driving for a lengthy periods of times on a motorway is tiring - your focus and concentration is not as alert as it would be driving on our normal country, windy, pothole ridden roads. You can run low on petrol, or just need a place to pull in and refuel your own fuel levels - but you cant. Not every slip road has a service area thats 24hrs and even if they did - you wont know until you drive up, and look around. Why bother, if its just going to waste your time?

The government/NRA needs to just hold up their hands (for once!) and agree they made a mistake and that their solution is to offer the private sector the chance to buy the land, build the stations, and service the people who use our motorways. Not wait until money comes flowing back in and then another lengthy period of "When should we start", planning, tendering, debates, another recession, etc.

We have had many campaigns calling on the NRA/councils/governments to do something in the past - should we not do the same here? Demand our local representative raise the issue in the Dail and put pressure on them to address this fundamental issue?

I have never been so angered as I am with the complete lack of care that we have no service stations and no will to get them sorted. Its shocking.

L1011 · 03-08-2010 11:42pm

The forecourt roof edging appears to be on both N4 ones now, light green on the one in front of the facilities block (for Applegreen) and dark green on the further out one (TOP, for trucks presumably).

murpho999 · 03-08-2010 11:54pm

Sully wrote: »

I was reading Sean Kelly, Fine Gael MEP for Ireland South, newsletter today. Spotted something which I felt was worthy of discussion, or at least a mention.

He thinks, from what I gather, the private sector should be permitted to build service stations since the NRA are so damn slow and seem now not to have money to complete the constructions planned.

Having traveled a lot of motorways and felt the need to pull in for a "pit stop" or even a refuel - I find it most infuriating that there is hardly any on our motorway network. I cant get over the lack of foresight by the Irish government and the NRA - these should have been built at the exact same time, money allocated and planning sorted. However, there is not much good complaining about what they didn't do. We should now look forward and see what we can do.

The countries drivers need service stations on these motorways. Without them, in my opinion, its a major safety risk. Driving for a lengthy periods of times on a motorway is tiring - your focus and concentration is not as alert as it would be driving on our normal country, windy, pothole ridden roads. You can run low on petrol, or just need a place to pull in and refuel your own fuel levels - but you cant. Not every slip road has a service area thats 24hrs and even if they did - you wont know until you drive up, and look around. Why bother, if its just going to waste your time?

The government/NRA needs to just hold up their hands (for once!) and agree they made a mistake and that their solution is to offer the private sector the chance to buy the land, build the stations, and service the people who use our motorways. Not wait until money comes flowing back in and then another lengthy period of "When should we start", planning, tendering, debates, another recession, etc.

We have had many campaigns calling on the NRA/councils/governments to do something in the past - should we not do the same here? Demand our local representative raise the issue in the Dail and put pressure on them to address this fundamental issue?

I have never been so angered as I am with the complete lack of care that we have no service stations and no will to get them sorted. Its shocking.

Understand your anger, but I was surprised two years ago when I drove in the US and none of their vast Interstate networks have service areas on them. Difference is that services off the motorways are clearly signposted, and this is something that is lacking on our motorways. Here, you would have to know where to exit motorway in order to get petrol/food etc and that is clearly wrong. At the time of the motorways being planned and built the NRA had a policy against service areas but they shold have at least planned to have off line ones clearly signposted, especially for foreginers who would have no idea what towns/villages to go to.

Pete_Cavan · 04-08-2010 11:12am

We now have a situation where the Government does not have the money to build Service Stations in Limerick, Cork, Waterford, Wexford and Cavan.

First of all, why on earth would anyone want to build a Motorway Service Area in Cavan when there isn't even a motorway within 10km of the county? I understand that some people are unhappy that motorways were built without service areas but building service areas without the motorway makes even less sense.

There is a simple solution to this problem which is let the private sector build them, this is best practice in other EU Member States and does not involve reinventing the wheel. All the NRA has to do is assign a plot of land for development and let the private sector construct the necessary access routes, buildings and so on.

The MSAs are being built by the private sector with private sector money. They are PPPs. The NRA has to do is assigned the plots of land for development and let the private sector construct the necessary access routes, buildings and run and operate the stations. At least this way the MSAs are guaranteed to be open 24 hours (if just run by a private company they might decide to close at 10pm because it was costing them money to stay open) and they will stay open (if it is not profitable the private company could close it down and we would be left with no MSAs). Even if the private company operating the petrol station stayed open, the food outlets (eg. BurgerKing) could close down. Basically this is the best way to ensure we have properly run and maintained MSAs. When the current PPP contracts expire, the NRA will still own the infrastructure and future contracts for operating the MSAs will be very profitable for them.

Sulmac · 04-08-2010 11:53am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The MSAs are being built by the private sector with private sector money. They are PPPs. The NRA has to do is assigned the plots of land for development and let the private sector construct the necessary access routes, buildings and run and operate the stations. At least this way the MSAs are guaranteed to be open 24 hours (if just run by a private company they might decide to close at 10pm because it was costing them money to stay open) and they will stay open (if it is not profitable the private company could close it down and we would be left with no MSAs). Even if the private company operating the petrol station stayed open, the food outlets (eg. BurgerKing) could close down. Basically this is the best way to ensure we have properly run and maintained MSAs. When the current PPP contracts expire, the NRA will still own the infrastructure and future contracts for operating the MSAs will be very profitable for them.

Are you sure every part of the MSAs will be open 24/7? I think I remember reading somewhere that the restaurants (e.g. Burger King) only have to open for a minimum of 18 hours a day, while only the petrol station and toilet aspects need to be open permanently.

That said, there's nothing to stop them all being open 24/7 if they want.

04-08-2010 12:17pm

Sulmac wrote: »

Are you sure every part of the MSAs will be open 24/7? I think I remember reading somewhere that the restaurants (e.g. Burger King) only have to open for a minimum of 18 hours a day, while only the petrol station and toilet aspects need to be open permanently.

That said, there's nothing to stop them all being open 24/7 if they want.

The petrol station will, no doubt sell the usual collection of "extras" that all large service stations sell, no one will go hungry.

Bluetonic · 12-08-2010 5:37pm

Lots of work on the M1 @ Ballough the last few nights.

Road markings are now in place off the M1 and a good bit of tarmac was delivered each night. Work is on going on the M1 for the approach signs.

The north building was fully light up last night, all signs etc..,.

L1011 · 12-08-2010 9:45pm

MYOB wrote: »

The forecourt roof edging appears to be on both N4 ones now, light green on the one in front of the facilities block (for Applegreen) and dark green on the further out one (TOP, for trucks presumably).

Signs up on the roof edging now.

NFD100 · 13-08-2010 8:34am

any pics?

baalthor · 13-08-2010 5:58pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Understand your anger, but I was surprised two years ago when I drove in the US and none of their vast Interstate networks have service areas on them.

Are you sure ?? The "service area" doesn't have to be right on the motorway - it just means there's a designated site with these services at reasonable distance when you exit the motorway/freeway.

The US does have them but as you can see from the article, local businesses lobbied to prevent them being built directly off the motorway - just like they did here Eurodeputy Kelly !

Geogregor · 14-08-2010 1:19pm

baalthor wrote: »

Are you sure ?? The "service area" doesn't have to be right on the motorway - it just means there's a designated site with these services at reasonable distance when you exit the motorway/freeway.

The US does have them but as you can see from the article, local businesses lobbied to prevent them being built directly off the motorway - just like they did here Eurodeputy Kelly !

I actually prefer US system over European one. Building services off the motorway offers greater competition as there is no one selected operator. You often have 3 or 4 gas stations and even more eating options around some junctions.
The key is clear signage on the freeway which tells you what gas, food, and logging you can expect on coming junction.
It is simple and less bureaucratic than selection of official contractors to run European style services.

14-08-2010 3:02pm

Geogregor wrote: »

I actually prefer US system over European one. Building services off the motorway offers greater competition as there is no one selected operator. You often have 3 or 4 gas stations and even more eating options around some junctions.
The key is clear signage on the freeway which tells you what gas, food, and logging you can expect on coming junction.
It is simple and less bureaucratic than selection of official contractors to run European style services.

Personally, I prefer the European/UK system as it ensures the services are where they are needed (as in between junctions etc.), not where the operators would prefer to place them to maximise profit!

cameramonkey · 14-08-2010 3:19pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally, I prefer the European/UK system as it ensures the services are where they are needed (as in between junctions etc.), not where the operators would prefer to place them to maximise profit!

i would prefer a Us style system with better sign posting. Uk is in Europe by the way.

TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

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