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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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Comments

  • #1202
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    It's a minor detail in the present context, but all the same I'll check it out. It was said to me by somebody active in local community development around that time.

    I always remember it as been City Council who were building it, from what I recall it dragged on for years which kinda matches what you see when you look at the Ordnance Survey aerial photo's from 1995, 2000 and 2005.


  • #1203
    Aard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    antoobrien wrote: »
    There was also something about the possibility of a second parallel bridge beside the QB, which apart from impacting on a few of the university buildings - would also be smack bang in the middle of an SAC (the entire river/lake complex is covered).

    There's no route that doesn't cross one.

    The red route would not be introducing a new bridge or tunnel element to the SAC.


  • #1204
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Aard wrote: »
    The red route would not be introducing a new bridge or tunnel element to the SAC.

    I was told yesterday by one of the project engineers that there would be a parallel bridge. Now I wish I'd taken a photo of it because it was clearly a second bridge.


  • #1205
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Relevant route maps can be seen here, as it's pdf it's fairly trivial to just zoom in them:

    http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PC2_Board-6a-Possible-Road-Component-of-the-Ransport-Solution-Sheet-1-of-2.pdf

    http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PC2_Board-6b-Possible-Road-Component-of-the-Ransport-Solution-Sheet-1-of-2.pdf


  • #1206
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Relevant route maps can be seen here, as it's pdf it's fairly trivial to just zoom in them:

    http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PC2_Board-6a-Possible-Road-Component-of-the-Ransport-Solution-Sheet-1-of-2.pdf

    http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/PC2_Board-6b-Possible-Road-Component-of-the-Ransport-Solution-Sheet-1-of-2.pdf

    They had different, more detailed maps available at the consultation (should be online next week, after the second set of consultations) that had among other things potential junction types that are not present in the set of maps online.


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  • #1207
    Aard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Yes it's a little disappointing that no junctions are indicated on those maps. Junctions are a key part and can "make or break" a project like this. As I said in my previous analysis, a well designed/located junction can greatly mitigate against sprawl and suburbanisation, whereas a poorly designed/located one can exacerbate sprawl etc.


  • #1208
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Aard wrote: »
    Yes it's a little disappointing that no junctions are indicated on those maps. Junctions are a key part and can "make or break" a project like this. As I said in my previous analysis, a well designed/located junction can greatly mitigate against sprawl and suburbanisation, whereas a poorly designed/located one can exacerbate sprawl etc.

    In summary apart from the red route (which gets confusing) junctions for the N roads on the east of the river. It was less clear what would happen on the west and it wasn't easy to examine the maps closely with so many people around.


  • #1209
    Aard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    The western end of the some of the routes also include a "link road" arrangement so that traffic can avoid the Upper Newcastle Road. I think that this is a clever device that could/should be used for all routes, even the red route.


  • #1210
    2rkehij30qtza5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭2rkehij30qtza5


    Aard wrote: »
    Yes it's a little disappointing that no junctions are indicated on those maps. Junctions are a key part and can "make or break" a project like this. As I said in my previous analysis, a well designed/located junction can greatly mitigate against sprawl and suburbanisation, whereas a poorly designed/located one can exacerbate sprawl etc.

    Junctions are marked on maps at public consultation.


  • #1211
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Aard wrote: »
    The western end of the some of the routes also include a "link road" arrangement so that traffic can avoid the Upper Newcastle Road. I think that this is a clever device that could/should be used for all routes, even the red route.


    Looking at those graphics I find myself wondering, for example, what's to stop commuters driving out the Barna Road from the western suburbs, taking the "bypass" all the way to the eastern end, and then coming back into the "industrial" zone around Parkmore and Ballybrit?

    Or what would stop them rat-running up the Tonabrucky direction to link up with the "link road" you describe?


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  • #1212
    Aard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    ^I'm not sure I understand what you mean...


  • #1213
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,603 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Looking at those graphics I find myself wondering, for example, what's to stop commuters driving out the Barna Road from the western suburbs, taking the "bypass" all the way to the eastern end, and then coming back into the "industrial" zone around Parkmore and Ballybrit?

    I take the Athlone bypass from West to East daily and am still within town limits. What is your odd obsession against people who do this? You want them to spend an hour in traffic (or cycling or Public Transport before you say it).

    I personally would use the bypass, get off at N84 junction and plod on towards Terryland with glee. In fact i cant wait for this to happen instead of the current situ where it takes as long to get from Doughiska to Terryland as it does to get from there to Monksland. I guess i'll burn in hell.


  • #1214
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Aard wrote: »
    ^I'm not sure I understand what you mean...


    This poster does:

    veryangryman wrote: »
    I take the Athlone bypass from West to East daily and am still within town limits. What is your odd obsession against people who do this? You want them to spend an hour in traffic (or cycling or Public Transport before you say it).

    I personally would use the bypass, get off at N84 junction and plod on towards Terryland with glee. In fact i cant wait for this to happen instead of the current situ where it takes as long to get from Doughiska to Terryland as it does to get from there to Monksland. I guess i'll burn in hell.


    We are told that the "bypass" is needed to take out "cars that don't want or need" to be in the city so that the existing infrastructure can be managed better:

    L1011 wrote: »
    Any traffic improvements for the city are nearly entirely unconnected to the bypass - and QBCs, cycle facilities etc are definitely part of the mix required for the city.

    The bypass is needed as a bypass. Not a relief road for the city, it already has that, except its expected to carry masses of traffic around the city.


    Yet already we have one poster who says he "can't wait" for an opportunity to use the "bypass" as a means of cross-town commuting.


    Is this a unique perspective? I doubt it. My guess, based on observation of car commuter habits in Galway, is that there are many thousands of habitual car users in and around the city champing at the bit, barely able to wait for a new era of delay-free driving.


    Why would anyone own a car and not want to use it?


    The original bypass proposal, first mooted over twenty years ago when developers were minor gods and sprawl was political gold-dust, was to be the car commuter's cure-all.


    I don't see much change of emphasis in the new plans. In fact, the more anecdotal reports I hear about the supposed "consultation" process, the more I begin to suspect that the "transport solution" aspect is mere window-dressing.


    Boxes will be ticked with gay abandon, as this project continues. But in terms of what a "bypass" is really about, the real-world situation is that collective use determines function.


    Take the proposed Green Route, for example. This starts at the R336 near Barna and joins the N6 somewhere near Coolagh.


    At present car-based commuters "plod" into and across the city from Spiddal, Barna, Knocknacarra and environs. What would deter them from simply switching tack, heading on to the "bypass" and coming back into the east side of the city from the Coolagh direction?


    And if in future thousands of motorists could and would do this "with glee" what will the effects be on (a) overall levels of car use and car dependence in the region, (b) car commuting within the city and (c) the potential for significant modal shift as required by national and EU policy as well as global imperatives such as the urgent need to mitigate climate change?


  • #1215
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    It'd have to happen at once. On the DAY the bypass opens, a big reconfiguration of the roads of Galway would have to take place to put in more bus lanes, better cycling infrastructure and less car space. I've often said that the bypass isn't the cure-all to Galways traffic problems but it'll make the city a much, much better place to live in. But it HAS to be done in conjunction with a major re-work of the town center and suburbs transportation... which I wouldn't trust Irish politicians and councillors to do properly.

    Either way you need a way to get across Galway without having to interact with the rest of the town... the current system just doesn't have the capacity. Four bridge crossings, one of which is awful (near the Cathedral) and two of which are in the town center just can't hack it for a town of Galways size.

    It needs to be multi-disciplinary. It shouldn't be an N road, it should be an M road to stop poor planning around it. And the councillors need to set it as the boundary of Galway, not as a place to sprawl development around. But thats a parochial thing, and sadly, probably won't happen.


  • #1216
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Iwannahurl wrote: »

    At present car-based commuters "plod" into and across the city from Spiddal, Barna, Knocknacarra and environs. What would deter them from simply switching tack, heading on to the "bypass" and coming back into the east side of the city from the Coolagh direction?

    In which case they would bypass the core of the city, sounds like success to me. You end up removing traffic that shouldn't be within close proximity of city center (QCB is close proximity). My own opinion would be that as part of Outer bypass that bus lane be run over QCB in both directions and up over Sean Mulvoy road to the Dublin road. (connected to SQR buslane and extended westerward on WDR)

    Of course if you were coming from Spidéal or na Forbacha or anywhere west of Bearna in Cois Fharraige you wouldn't need to backtrack you'd just drive straight onto the start of the green route.

    If people want to drive westbound on WDR out of Knocknatallaght sure it's removes them from SQR, thus making dedicated buslanes over QCB more viable.


  • #1217
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    It shouldn't be an N road, it should be an M road to stop poor planning around it. And the councillors need to set it as the boundary of Galway, not as a place to sprawl development around. But thats a parochial thing, and sadly, probably won't happen.

    Motoway with greenbelt either side of it, that would do, make the Greenbelt 5km thick on the outside. County council will love that ;)


  • #1218
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    (1)It'd have to happen at once. On the DAY the bypass opens, a big reconfiguration of the roads of Galway would have to take place to put in more bus lanes, better cycling infrastructure and less car space.


    (2)I've often said that the bypass isn't the cure-all to Galways traffic problems but it'll make the city a much, much better place to live in.


    (3)But it HAS to be done in conjunction with a major re-work of the town center and suburbs transportation... which I wouldn't trust Irish politicians and councillors to do properly.


    (4)Either way you need a way to get across Galway without having to interact with the rest of the town... the current system just doesn't have the capacity. Four bridge crossings, one of which is awful (near the Cathedral) and two of which are in the town center just can't hack it for a town of Galways size.


    (5)It needs to be multi-disciplinary. It shouldn't be an N road, it should be an M road to stop poor planning around it. And the councillors need to set it as the boundary of Galway, not as a place to sprawl development around.


    (6)But thats a parochial thing, and sadly, probably won't happen.

    1. That is an utterly realistic scenario. On day one you'll have thousands of ecstatic motorists taking to the new road, and there they will stay. It's downright farcical for anyone to suggest that, once the bypass is opened and city streets are relieved of congestion, a substantial proportion of motorists will suddenly experience a Damascene conversion and will immediately switch to public transport, walking and cycling. What could possibly prompt them to do so?


    As for bus lanes and the like, it is a physical impossibility to implement anything of that sort "on the day the bypass opens". In a city where it has taken 30-50 years for the Council to notice that children need to cross the road to get to school, what hope is there that they will have any sort of coherent plan ready to implement within any reasonable timeframe? While they're bodging that project, the dominant car culture will continue to colonise all available space. It's been going on for decades, so what would trigger a paradigm shift following a massive increase in available road space? In any case, where is such a major project even hinted at in the current plans? Are there 60 scientists working on that particular option/alternative, as there are on the various road options?


    2. Better for whom? It is self-evident that the biggest winners from day one will be car owners and car users. One major reason why the city has not been made a better place to live in for pedestrians, cyclists and users of public transport, over a period of decades, is that the needs and wants of motorists have always been prioritised. This is exemplified in the attitude that non-motorists can only be accommodated properly after a bypass is built.


    3. What would motivate them to do so? Most of them have cared little and done less about the fundamental issues for years (some for decades) and have been content to wait for a bypass to materialise. And why would they bother once the biggest sweetie of all (a bypass) has been dished out, and there are no more votes to be garnered by supporting the most populist policy of all?


    4. The current system doesn't have the capacity for what? A feature of the current road network is that it is (a) not congested all the time, (b) is congested with cars travelling relatively short distances such as the school run, and (c) grossly under-provides for transport modes which do not cause any traffic congestion.


    5. Where in Ireland have politicians prevented road-facilitated car-dependent urban sprawl?


    6. You're absolutely right, it won't happen. So can we drop the pretence that the "bypass" is about anything other than facilitating car use? And while we're at it, can we acknowledge that most "bypass" enthusiasts really do not give a damn about sustainable transportation policy or about what will happen in relation to public transit, walking and cycling once a "bypass" is built?


  • #1219
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    dubhthach wrote: »
    In which case they would bypass the core of the city, sounds like success to me. You end up removing traffic that shouldn't be within close proximity of city center (QCB is close proximity). My own opinion would be that as part of Outer bypass that bus lane be run over QCB in both directions and up over Sean Mulvoy road to the Dublin road. (connected to SQR buslane and extended westerward on WDR)
    Of course if you were coming from Spidéal or na Forbacha or anywhere west of Bearna in Cois Fharraige you wouldn't need to backtrack you'd just drive straight onto the start of the green route.
    If people want to drive westbound on WDR out of Knocknatallaght sure it's removes them from SQR, thus making dedicated buslanes over QCB more viable.


    Success for whom? It is self-evident that if a large proportion of commuters switch to a bypass, and if road space within the city is significantly increased, then this creates an opportunity for more car use. Private car users can instantly avail of this expanded capacity whereas there will inevitably be a substantial time lag before public transport can fill the gap. Where are the measures in the current proposals to expand public transport at all?


    And what makes bus lanes viable? Passengers, of course. Where will those passengers come from? Out of cars? How exactly will that be achieved?


  • #1220
    Padkir
    Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭Padkir


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Looking at those graphics I find myself wondering, for example, what's to stop commuters driving out the Barna Road from the western suburbs, taking the "bypass" all the way to the eastern end, and then coming back into the "industrial" zone around Parkmore and Ballybrit?

    Or what would stop them rat-running up the Tonabrucky direction to link up with the "link road" you describe?

    Is that not one of the main points of the road? So they can avoid the city centre.


  • #1221
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    The alleged purpose of the road is as a bypass, including and perhaps especially for those people in Connemara allegedly "cut off" from the rest of the country.

    Of course, various people want a "bypass" for various reasons, most of them to do with the facilitation of car use: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85750010&postcount=495

    I keep having to ask the same question: if in fact the "bypass" is going to function as a ring road for car commuters, what effect will this have on (a) overall levels of car use and car dependence in the region, (b) car commuting within the city and (c) the potential for significant modal shift as required by national and EU policy as well as global imperatives such as the urgent need to mitigate climate change?


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  • #1222
    ballinadog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭ballinadog


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The alleged purpose of the road is as a bypass, including and perhaps especially for those people in Connemara allegedly "cut off" from the rest of the country.

    Of course, various people want a "bypass" for various reasons, most of them to do with the facilitation of car use: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85750010&postcount=495

    I keep having to ask the same question: if in fact the "bypass" is going to function as a ring road for car commuters, what effect will this have on (a) overall levels of car use and car dependence in the region, (b) car commuting within the city and (c) the potential for significant modal shift as required by national and EU policy as well as global imperatives such as the urgent need to mitigate climate change?

    (A) little or no change
    (B) little or no change to the amount of people commuting by car, however they won't now all be in the city on roads not fit to carry them but out on new rd
    (C) little or no change however there would be greater potential to make adjustments to the current infrastructure which would aid this modal shift, which there is currently zero potential for at the mo


  • #1223
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Success for whom? It is self-evident that if a large proportion of commuters switch to a bypass, and if road space within the city is significantly increased, then this creates an opportunity for more car use. Private car users can instantly avail of this expanded capacity whereas there will inevitably be a substantial time lag before public transport can fill the gap. Where are the measures in the current proposals to expand public transport at all?


    And what makes bus lanes viable? Passengers, of course. Where will those passengers come from? Out of cars? How exactly will that be achieved?

    Why would people shift to buses when
    (a) infrequent (you need a 15-20 minute headway)
    (b) time of trip not guaranteed.

    After all back in day the Salthill bus was every half-hour, if you missed it ye be better off going home and driving into town. If however it was running every 15minutes you would have higher patronage. Of course Galway has a worse case of An Lár-ism then even Dublin. Why for example are all bus routes routed through Eyre Square?

    If you can't provide a solution to getting buses through gridlock why would anyone start using them? People don't want to use public transport for quasi-religious reasons but because when done right it's a efficient and convenient ways of getting to work.

    Again there's nothing stopping the introduction of a buslane across the QCB and up the Seán Mulvoy road on the day of bypass opening. (Heck I'd go further and run one out to Oranmore on old N6), all you need is a line painting vehicle and some signs (covered until the day). Result the loss of culminative of 5.2km of road space to car users (2.6km each way).

    No road works required or anything, well that and the Gardaí to stop eating donuts.


  • #1224
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    It'd have to happen at once. On the DAY the bypass opens, a big reconfiguration of the roads of Galway would have to take place to put in more bus lanes, better cycling infrastructure and less car space. I've often said that the bypass isn't the cure-all to Galways traffic problems but it'll make the city a much, much better place to live in. But it HAS to be done in conjunction with a major re-work of the town center and suburbs transportation... which I wouldn't trust Irish politicians and councillors to do properly.

    Strong merit in what you propose. Why is this and other such possibilities not been included in the "N6 Galway City Transport Project" in addition to the Road Route Corridor's been proposed?
    I would imagine it would make the IROPI case stronger if they were to adopt such an approach?


  • #1225
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I don't understand any of these arguments against the bypass.

    They sound like arguments from those living in small towns who are afraid the town will die if bypassed.


  • #1226
    Pottymouth
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭Pottymouth


    It strikes me as strange hat there is no provision for a connection from the proposed new harbour development to any of the proposed new routes. One would think that the harbour would need a major connection to the new route otherwise substantial and sometimes heavy traffic will have to meander through the town. Am I missing something?


  • #1227
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Pottymouth wrote: »
    It strikes me as strange hat there is no provision for a connection from the proposed new harbour development to any of the proposed new routes. One would think that the harbour would need a major connection to the new route otherwise substantial and sometimes heavy traffic will have to meander through the town. Am I missing something?

    Harbour development though is a private concern (eg. Harbour company not local authority) so not surprising they've ignored it. It mightn't happen. Though there is a proposal for a road/bus corridor connection:

    http://connachttribune.ie/new-road-parallel-to-railway-line-proposed/


  • #1228
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I suggested that about five years ago. Maybe I should claim copyright....


  • #1229
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    I don't understand any of these arguments against the bypass.

    They sound like arguments from those living in small towns who are afraid the town will die if bypassed.


    In EU and world terms Galway "City" is a small town. :)

    Anyway, what happens to small towns in Ireland that are bypassed?


  • #1230
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Harbour development though is a private concern (eg. Harbour company not local authority) so not surprising they've ignored it. It mightn't happen. Though there is a proposal for a road/bus corridor connection:

    http://connachttribune.ie/new-road-parallel-to-railway-line-proposed/

    This proposal was never submitted in the planning application.
    http://www.galwayharbourextension.com/
    Harbour company(Semi State) is currently not under Galway City Council authority but could end up so as it is a Regional Port (Tier 3)


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  • #1231
    WallyGUFC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭WallyGUFC


    Bypass takes cars out of city centre. City centre traffic becomes less of a problem. Buses, cyclists, pedestrians can then move around the town more freely/quickly/safely. City centre living becomes more desirable. Increase in population. Increase in public transport use ;)

    Probably too simplistic. Think the bypass is a positive. If they sorted out the Salmon Weir Bridge that'd be very positive also.


  • #1232
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    WallyGUFC wrote: »
    Bypass takes cars out of city centre. City centre traffic becomes less of a problem. Buses, cyclists, pedestrians can then move around the town more freely/quickly/safely. City centre living becomes more desirable. Increase in population. Increase in public transport use ;)

    Probably too simplistic. Think the bypass is a positive. If they sorted out the Salmon Weir Bridge that'd be very positive also.

    Sure as the bypass would be taking car's out of the city centre you could close Salmon Weir Bridge from Private Motor Vehicle's. Make it an "on demand" bus lane and widen the footpaths.


  • #1233
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Sure as the bypass would be taking car's out of the city centre you could close Salmon Weir Bridge from Private Motor Vehicle's. Make it an "on demand" bus lane and widen the footpaths.

    There was talk years ago of building a vehicle only bridge 20metres downstream of Salmon Weir Bridge (taking out the bend when coming from Court house direction -- straight through), in that plan the idea was that existing Salmon Weir Bridge would become pedestrian/Cyclist only.


  • #1234
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    dubhthach wrote: »
    There was talk years ago of building a vehicle only bridge 20metres downstream of Salmon Weir Bridge (taking out the bend when coming from Court house direction -- straight through), in that plan the idea was that existing Salmon Weir Bridge would become pedestrian/Cyclist only.

    Cheaper option would be to do nothing and just remove the car traffic. Then can concentrate that money on a bridge/tunnel upstream for the bypass.


  • #1235
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Cheaper option would be to do nothing and just remove the car traffic. Then can concentrate that money on a bridge/tunnel upstream for the bypass.

    Sure and the cheaper option was to use roundabouts instead of interchanges on the M50 (estimated cost saving of £50m in 1980) we all know how that turned out in long run!


  • #1236
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Sure and the cheaper option was to use roundabouts instead of interchanges on the M50 (estimated cost saving of £50m in 1980) we all know how that turned out in long run!

    Not sure why are you bringing the M50 into it? Salmon Weir Bridge is in Heart of Galway City. Less than 3 minutes walk from Lynch's Castle. We really do not need to facilitate car traffic at this location by building a NEW bridge.
    Back to the Bypass. If the bypass was built we would as many ascertain be taking many car's out of the city centre so one could close Salmon Weir Bridge to Private Motor Vehicle's after this. Make it a smarter travel / public transport gate.


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  • #1237
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Not sure why are you bringing the M50 into it?

    Because taking the cheaper option for the M50 lead to a 1bn upgrade 20 odd years later.


  • #1238
    veryangryman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,603 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    In EU and world terms Galway "City" is a small town. :)

    Anyway, what happens to small towns in Ireland that are bypassed?

    Depends... but...

    If we take the N77 (old N8) as an example, there is an impressive long cycle lane that was built shortly after around Durrow/Abbeyleix.

    I don't think that this cycle route would have been a runner if long distance national traffic were using it.

    Well you did say "small town". Anyway I hope that this inspires you today. :)


  • #1239
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Not sure why are you bringing the M50 into it? Salmon Weir Bridge is in Heart of Galway City. Less than 3 minutes walk from Lynch's Castle. We really do not need to facilitate car traffic at this location by building a NEW bridge.
    Back to the Bypass. If the bypass was built we would as many ascertain be taking many car's out of the city centre so one could close Salmon Weir Bridge to Private Motor Vehicle's after this. Make it a smarter travel / public transport gate.

    I know where the Salmon Weir Bridge is, I was born less then 10minutes walk from it ffs, closing it to private cars does nothing to alleviate the issue it poses to pedestrians due to narrow footpaths and buses having to take wide turns.

    Given that 4-5 bus routes are "multiplexed" across that one bridge it makes sense to replace the bridge with a proper width bridge (Without a humpback) that would be in alignment with St. Vincent's Avenue/Headford Road.

    4590787741.jpg


  • #1240
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    dubhthach wrote: »
    I know where the Salmon Weir Bridge is, I was born less then 10minutes walk from it ffs, closing it to private cars does nothing to alleviate the issue it poses to pedestrians due to narrow footpaths and buses having to take wide turns.

    Given that 4-5 bus routes are "multiplexed" across that one bridge it makes sense to replace the bridge with a proper width bridge (Without a humpback) that would be in alignment with St. Vincent's Avenue/Headford Road.

    4590787741.jpg

    I don't care where you were born. Fail to see how that is relevant. My point was that we should not be pushing more and more private car traffic through at this location. If it was closed would not have issues with the buses turning - they would not be competing with all the private car traffic that currently use it.


  • #1241
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Because taking the cheaper option for the M50 lead to a 1bn upgrade 20 odd years later.

    Still fail to see the relevance in relation to the Salmon Weir Bridge?


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  • #1242
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    what_traffic wrote: »
    I don't care were you were born. Fail to see how that is relevant. My point was that we should not be pushing more and more private car traffic through at this location. If it was closed would not have issues with the buses turning - they would not be competing with all the private car traffic that currently use it.

    Let you seem to presume to offer me a geographic lesson vis-a-vie Lynch's castle. How was that relevant? The Claddagh bridge is less than 5 minutes walk from Lynch's castle do you propose to ban traffic from that as well?


  • #1243
    WallyGUFC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭WallyGUFC


    what_traffic wrote: »
    I don't care where you were born. Fail to see how that is relevant. My point was that we should not be pushing more and more private car traffic through at this location. If it was closed would not have issues with the buses turning - they would not be competing with all the private car traffic that currently use it.
    But there'll be less traffic, with the bypass. Less traffic than there is now. What need is there to go the full hog and close it to private traffic altogether?


  • #1244
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    WallyGUFC wrote: »
    But there'll be less traffic, with the bypass. Less traffic than there is now. What need is there to go the full hog and close it to private traffic altogether?

    Because there will be no need for it with the bypass. It would create a better realm for pedestrians, cyclists and public transport users in the City Centre/NUIG. Would improve journey times of buses on the West side of the city. Would also have knock on benefits to the Woodquay area.


  • #1245
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Let you seem to presume to offer me a geographic lesson vis-a-vie Lynch's castle. How was that relevant? The Claddagh bridge is less than 5 minutes walk from Lynch's castle do you propose to ban traffic from that as well?

    Sure why not! Just private car traffic.


  • #1246
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    what_traffic wrote: »
    I don't care where you were born. Fail to see how that is relevant. My point was that we should not be pushing more and more private car traffic through at this location. If it was closed would not have issues with the buses turning - they would not be competing with all the private car traffic that currently use it.

    Buses on the existing Salmon Weir Bridge will still be a danger to pedestrians even without car traffic.

    A new bridge should should be built alongside the Salmon Weir Bridge to keep motor traffic safely away from pedestrians. That much is plain and simple! Whether or not cars are allowed to use the new bridge is up for debate. Personally, I am open to it being public transport only if a bypass is built.


  • #1247
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    KevR wrote: »
    Buses on the existing Salmon Weir Bridge will still be a danger to pedestrians even without car traffic.

    A new bridge should should be built alongside the Salmon Weir Bridge to keep motor traffic safely away from pedestrians. That much is plain and simple! Whether or not cars are allowed to use the new bridge is up for debate. Personally, I am open to it being public transport only if a bypass is built.

    I would trial the Public Transport Salmon Weir Bridge first for 6 months / 1 year . May not need to spend more money on a new bridge at all. It is a protected structure as far as I know.


  • #1248
    Zzippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,166 ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    What do people think will be the preferred route? Have an interest in a property that may be affected by one, which is causing a lot of stress... do people believe they really don't have a preferred route?


  • #1249
    tf2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 178 ✭✭tf2


    Zzippy wrote: »
    What do people think will be the preferred route? Have an interest in a property that may be affected by one, which is causing a lot of stress... do people believe they really don't have a preferred route?

    My money is on the green route.


  • #1250
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Still fail to see the relevance in relation to the Salmon Weir Bridge?

    You're proposing something and one of the grounds of justification is that it's cheap. The relevance is clear to pretty much everyone else here.


  • #1251
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    tf2 wrote: »
    My money is on the green route.
    The green route is the one that will be chosen after this charade of a "public consultation" is out of the way. Minor tweaking arising from threatened legal action is all that will be considered.

    "'Politics ... consists [of] choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." (J.K. Galbraith)


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