Thinking of starting BJJ

spongebob89 · 29-01-2015 6:39pm #1

Seriously thinking of giving this a go.. I ust to train MMA for over a year and eventually got burnt out wasn't enjoying it anymore. Iv always been in an out of martial arts but find I struggle a bit with people im more the introvert type.

The ground aspect in MMA was fun when rolling with someone your own level by winnin some an losing some.. but what is full on bjj like? Would it be as tiresome after a session as an mma session giving the half hour of intense fitness training at the start of mma classes.. Dose bjj have that level of intensity and time dedicated to the fitness aspect? In a typical 1.5 hr bjj class how much time is usually fitness, instruction, sparring?

I heard on a YouTube video some bjj black belt was giving some talk and mentioned alot of guys quit after there blue belt.. Dose that happen alot around here? If so why would that be?

Mellor · 30-01-2015 7:16am

spongebob89 wrote: »

Dose bjj have that level of intensity and time dedicated to the fitness aspect? In a typical 1.5 hr bjj class how much time is usually fitness, instruction, sparring?

There's no such thing as a typical BJJ class just like theres no such thing as a typical MMA class. Some gyms separate fitness into a separate class. But the warm up can have varying intensity, so maybe you would call that fitness.

Typically, we'd do 15mins warm up, 45 mins technique or drills, 30 mins rolling.
And we's also have classes that are all technique and others that are all sparring.

I heard on a YouTube video some bjj black belt was giving some talk and mentioned alot of guys quit after there blue belt.. Dose that happen alot around here? If so why would that be?

In my experience, most people leave before they get their blue belt.
White belts are usually the majority in any clubs I've been to.
Blues would be the nest, simply because purple belt is a significant level and takes years to get there. And thats with plenty of dedication.

Froshtbit · 30-01-2015 10:24pm

Jits is a great sport and you will find it tiring. Although,if you're used to MMA you should be fine. I've been at it a few months and dont get to train as often as I'd like. (12 hour days are not conducive to training.) It's hard to get competant at and even harder to get good at which is why a lot of people dont stick with it.

spongebob89 · 30-01-2015 11:09pm

Froshtbit wrote: »

Jits is a great sport and you will find it tiring. Although,if you're used to MMA you should be fine. I've been at it a few months and dont get to train as often as I'd like. (12 hour days are not conducive to training.) It's hard to get competant at and even harder to get good at which is why a lot of people dont stick with it.

How often do you get to train? Would 2 sessions a week be good enough to learn an get good at it within a year? As two sessions is all id probably be able to commit to as iv other stuff going

Froshtbit · 30-01-2015 11:13pm

2 a week is more than I get to go! Ah no, it varies for me, sometimes 3 times a week sometimes Im luky to get one. If you an reliably get 2 classes in a week, you'll progress, especially ehen you already have a base in MMA. I assume You likely already know some basis like guard, half guard, full mount etc and so the learning curve shouldnt be as steep.

spongebob89 · 31-01-2015 1:14am

Froshtbit wrote: »

2 a week is more than I get to go! Ah no, it varies for me, sometimes 3 times a week sometimes Im luky to get one. If you an reliably get 2 classes in a week, you'll progress, especially ehen you already have a base in MMA. I assume You likely already know some basis like guard, half guard, full mount etc and so the learning curve shouldnt be as steep.

Yeah I remember them alright, js been 5yrs now but I do remember the kimora, armbar, guillotine.. Were the only submissions id ever get (sometimes) but I sucked at escapes an set ups..

For you to have to pay full wack for all classes an regularly only get 1 class must frustrate you. That's my main concern about it too that due to the popularity of the sport now ive noticed some local clubs charging € 70 - 80 a month, and id only be about to attend 2 classes a week really can't justify that as im a student with child responsibilitys so that is alot of money for me to pay for 2 classes a week.. The people doing bjj and mma an the whole lot certainly get their moneys worth

Froshtbit · 31-01-2015 2:22am

I just pay by the lesson. I'm lucky like that.

The subs, at first anyway, arent as important as the rest of it. I rarely ever sub anyone because I'm still a relative noob. I just try to survive and learn what the guys who are better do in given positions. It's again, why people tend to quit. It can be frustrating to feel stalemating a roll is as good as you can hope for.

In saying that, the first time you pull off a a sweep or a reversal or even a takedown you feel like a king.

bubba185 · 31-01-2015 2:38am

Evolution mma Tullamore great lads to train with no one looks down on anyone bjj beginners classes,training is hard as it should be two sessions a week is ok no need to over train just practice with someone on your days off. Or you could try SBG Dublin

arybvtcw0eolkf · 31-01-2015 6:49pm

spongebob89 wrote: »

I heard on a YouTube video some bjj black belt was giving some talk and mentioned alot of guys quit after there blue belt.. Dose that happen alot around here? If so why would that be?

Happens in most style's of martial arts, hence the saying 'A black belt is a white belt who never gave up'.

Regards fitness training when you turn up for a BJJ class, or whatever style you're doing ~ this pisses me off big time.

My main style is Judo, and my take on it is when I'm on a Judo mat I want to do Judo and not 30 minutes of cardio as a warm up.

If someone isn't fit and they want to advance let them look after their own fitness, I simply couldn't give a toss.. I commute cycle over 20km a day, I do my gym work in the morning and I'm f*cked if I want to do circuits before Judo ~ when I'm on the mat I want to do Judo (or BJJ if I'm in a BJJ class).

I can run etc in a park or on the roads when, I can't throw people out there!.

/rant over

RoboRat · 03-02-2015 10:18am

Stop thinking about giving it a go and just give it a go. I have a mate who has been telling me for well over 2 years that he would love to try bjj but every time, there is an excuse. Just try it, if its not for you then so be it but you sound a lot like me personally... I have done Kempo, Bushido, Judo, Muay Thai and boxing, its not that I didn't want to stay at them, just life got in the way and I was playing a lot of football so I was focussed on that.

I have been doing BJJ for about 3 years now (albeit being out for 1 year due to a bad knee injury). I love it and I love that its both technical and physical. There is a viewpoint that a lot of blue belts quit and I think thats down to the fact that it is a very difficult sport. You have to do it for a long time before you will start seeing results, especially in active rolling. You will spend a lot of time tapping and its a humbling experience. A lot of people do it for a year or so and then feel it would be a waste to quit as a white, so when they get their blue they feel they have accomplished something so that year or two wasn't wasted... thats just my viewpoint.

I am still a white and I am happy as I am still learning but I have definitely moved to the next level. I spent a lot of time relying on strength and being honest, that held me back for a long time. I have my own game which suits my build and I see opportunities that I never used to see. I feel comfortable rolling with higher belts and although I might not get the sub, its a win to not get tapped because like anything, you need a good foundation before you can build, and the good foundation in BJJ is your defence.

I have to say that BJJ people are easily the best people I have trained with for trying to help you develop. Higher belts have always taken the time to point out what I am doing wrong and right. Sometimes I may have done something that was almost right and they have shown the tweaks that are needed to get them right. I have also looked a lot of things up on youtube and asked the higher level lads to allow me to try them, if I am doing it wrong, or there is a better way for me to do it, they are extremely helpful and will help to figure it out.

Chris89 · 03-02-2015 7:10pm

A blue belt in BJJ takes a long time to acheive, a lot of people set their targets on that blue belt for so long that when it comes, and they see how much effort is required for a purple belt, they quit.

Thats it in my experience really, people are happy to 'retire' with a blue belt rather than stick it out and go all the way!

Good luck with your training!

spongebob89 · 03-02-2015 8:10pm

Chris89 wrote: »

A blue belt in BJJ takes a long time to acheive, a lot of people set their targets on that blue belt for so long that when it comes, and they see how much effort is required for a purple belt, they quit.

Thats it in my experience really, people are happy to 'retire' with a blue belt rather than stick it out and go all the way!

Good luck with your training!

Really? How long would it take to get a blue belt with 2 nights of training a week roughly? Is grading based on how long your training or are you giving a specific test? I think its all about enjoying the sport tho an not rushing to get a belt to retire! im tryna figure out if ill stick it for life because I gave up mma after a year, it became to much an I lost motivation. I know grappling is tough and tiring but maybe not as bad as the mma was!

Chris89 · 03-02-2015 8:55pm

There are many factors involved, like the standard at your academy, your own personal rate of progression, athletic ability, age, size etc etc etc

I have seen blue belts after 1 year, most had some prior experience in sports or martial arts, some were just keen and trained every day.
The norm is around 1.5-2 years maybe, training a few times a week. Although i have seen longer (usually due to inconsistency)

Theres two types of guy with 'one year' training - one who trains 5x a week and one who trains 2x. So dont worry about the actual time, that will pass anyway. And youre right not to get caught up with the belts, its a fantastic martial art and im sure youll enjoy it regardless of grade!

Mellor · 03-02-2015 9:13pm

spongebob89 wrote: »

Really? How long would it take to get a blue belt with 2 nights of training a week roughly?

1-3 years based on training 2-5 times a week. Too many variables to be more precise than than.

RoboRat · 04-02-2015 1:30pm

Really? How long would it take to get a blue belt with 2 nights of training a week roughly? Is grading based on how long your training or are you giving a specific test?

Too many variables in regards to how long it will take. It depends on how much you train, how good your instructor is at teaching (some people are better at relaying information than others, regardless of their rank) how quickly you understand techniques, how quickly you can then tie them all together, your physical condition, your age (speaking as a 37 year old with 2 ACL replacements, training 5 times a week is not feasible, especially in cold weather!).

It is also about how good your training partners are and whether you push yourself and roll with better people or are happier to roll with your own level/ lower levels - I am not saying that the latter is wrong but if you push yourself and test yourself, you will progress quicker. Its also advisable to enter competitions as these are the real test of your ability.

Its also worth noting that some gyms give stripe promotions based on attendance whereas others promote based on ability, some do both. For me personally, I feel that if you can roll with and compete with a blue belt, then you are at that level and worthy of a promotion but the decision is in the hands or your instructor.

To paraphrase Royce Gracie 'A black belt only covers two inches of your ass. You have to cover the rest'. If belts are important then BJJ is not an ideal sport, I couldn't give a monkeys what colour my belt is, if I am getting better, fitter and having fun, thats all that matters. I gauge my progression on what I have learnt and how effective I am rolling. I have rolled with purple belts that have been very competitive rolls and I have tapped them a few times - thats what is important to me!

yourdeadwright · 04-02-2015 6:05pm

Probably obvious but If you train twice a week for 2 years and a guy trains 3 times a week for 2 years, He'll have trained a whole year more than you in mat time,

spongebob89 · 04-02-2015 10:43pm

Iv narrowed it down to two gyms to train with, bjj revolutions morning classes really appeal to me but its 20 quid more expensive than this other BJJ club.. Team balance in drumcondra. Anyone know of the all round standards of this team balance club?

If anyone knows other gyms that have morning classes that I may have missed

Dave 101 · 04-02-2015 11:15pm

spongebob89 wrote: »

Iv narrowed it down to two gym to train with, bjj revolutions morning classes really appeal to me but its 20 quid more expensive than this other BJJ club.. Team balance in drumcondra. Anyone know of the all round standards of this team balance club?

If anyone knows other gyms that have morning classes that I may have missed

bjj revolution would be worth the extra 20 imo

spongebob89 · 04-02-2015 11:20pm

Dave 101 wrote: »

bjj revolution would be worth the extra 20 imo

Why is that do you know anything about the other gym?

How frequent are injuries in BJJ?

Chris89 · 05-02-2015 12:27am

how long is a piece of string?

injuries are common in bjj, but more accurately: injuries are common in people! look after your body and you will be fine.

If a fiver a week is influencing your choice of gym then youre already off to a bad start!

Just try em both if youre unsure.

Mouthalmighty · 05-02-2015 3:40pm

Dave 101 wrote: »

bjj revolution would be worth the extra 20 imo

Never heard of team balance but Bjj Revolution is (if I'm not mistaken) is Andy Ryan's gym. Trust us train there he's a pioneer of the sport of BJJ and MMA in Ireland, a black belt in Bjj and Judo and an excellent coach to boot. A serious dude to train with.

yourdeadwright · 05-02-2015 3:43pm

I done my first class in 5 years or more on Monday and i'm absolutely shattered since haha,
It was really enjoyable to get back into a class and get rolling,
I weight train 5 days a week and decided to do BJJ on my two rest days but i'll defiantly be changing that it took a hell of a lot out of me, Guess I'm not as young as I used to be

FTA69 · 05-02-2015 4:01pm

I only did grappling for a few months but while I thought the cardio wasn't as demanding as boxing I did think it was a lot tougher on your body in general. "Gentle art" my b*llocks. I seemed to have a permanently strained neck or shoulder and ended up getting a massive cauliflour on my ear as well. It's all well and good saying "push through it" but when your broken ear cartilage is getting mashed into a mat by someone's body-weight, it isn't much fun at all. Similarly, the likes of judo and getting torn around and f*cked on your back for hours might look great but I imagine you'd bloody feel it afterward.

Dave 101 · 06-02-2015 12:09am

spongebob89 wrote: »

Why is that do you know anything about the other gym?

this is why

Mouthalmighty wrote: »

Andy Ryan's gym. Trust us train there he's a pioneer of the sport of BJJ and MMA in Ireland, a black belt in Bjj and Judo and an excellent coach to boot. A serious dude to train with.

yourdeadwright · 06-02-2015 10:43am

FTA69 wrote: »

I only did grappling for a few months but while I thought the cardio wasn't as demanding as boxing I did think it was a lot tougher on your body in general. "Gentle art" my b*llocks. I seemed to have a permanently strained neck or shoulder and ended up getting a massive cauliflour on my ear as well. It's all well and good saying "push through it" but when your broken ear cartilage is getting mashed into a mat by someone's body-weight, it isn't much fun at all. Similarly, the likes of judo and getting torn around and f*cked on your back for hours might look great but I imagine you'd bloody feel it afterward.

I was shattered ,but u make it sound like hell , I quite enjoyed it all and it wasn't nearly as bad as you make it sound, it was just a good workout that felt me tired, I'd honestly say your more likely to injure yourself playing football

FTA69 · 06-02-2015 11:27am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I was shattered ,but u make it sound like hell , I quite enjoyed it all and it wasn't nearly as bad as you make it sound, it was just a good workout that felt me tired, I'd honestly say your more likely to injure yourself playing football

I could be suffering from chronic Wussitis but I found the BJJ took a toll on me after a few weeks. As I said, I was only at it for a very brief period so only scratched the surface really. I agree with you on the soccer comment, worst injury I ever had was breaking my leg playing ball on a Sunday morning.

Chris89 · 06-02-2015 11:57am

FTA69 wrote: »

I could be suffering from chronic Wussitis but I found the BJJ took a toll on me after a few weeks. As I said, I was only at it for a very brief period so only scratched the surface really. I agree with you on the soccer comment, worst injury I ever had was breaking my leg playing ball on a Sunday morning.

How soon into your training did you begin to spar? First week?

MartyMcFly84 · 06-02-2015 12:09pm

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I done my first class in 5 years or more on Monday and i'm absolutely shattered since haha,
It was really enjoyable to get back into a class and get rolling,
I weight train 5 days a week and decided to do BJJ on my two rest days but i'll defiantly be changing that it took a hell of a lot out of me, Guess I'm not as young as I used to be

I would say if you relax a bit more it wont take so much out of you. Often lifters "hulk out" and try and squeeze their way through the class or rolls. If you chill out and loosen up you will find you can train much more regularly.

But of course I am sure you moved loads of muscles in a way they have not been moved in 5 years , a sure case of the aches if I ever heard one

- Don't roll like your life depended on it , or its the finals of the black belt mundials and you will be fine. Worse that happens, the guy passes your guard and/or you tap out and start again.

FTA69 · 06-02-2015 12:13pm

Chris89 wrote: »

How soon into your training did you begin to spar? First week?

Yeah, started rolling my first class and every class had a heavy emphasis on sparring. I think another factor was that some classes we didn't really warm up properly in a cold gym and that led to lots of pulls and strains.

Mellor · 06-02-2015 12:23pm

FTA69 wrote: »

I could be suffering from chronic Wussitis but I found the BJJ took a toll on me after a few weeks. As I said, I was only at it for a very brief period so only scratched the surface really.

If you were getting hurt a lot you're doing something wrong.
Not tapping often enough, or early enough. Trying to muscle through techniques, relying on brute force over movement. Etc

It's pretty common for guys starting out. You'll see guys, who are otherwise strong and fit, dripping sweat and wrecked after a 60min session and a few 5mins rolls.
But the guys who are rolling technically, are getting much more work done, and capable of doing so for 2-3 hours or more.

FTA69 · 06-02-2015 12:33pm

Mellor wrote: »

If you were getting hurt a lot you're doing something wrong.
Not tapping often enough, or early enough. Trying to muscle through techniques, relying on brute force over movement. Etc

It's pretty common for guys starting out. You'll see guys, who are otherwise strong and fit, dripping sweat and wrecked after a 60min session and a few 5mins rolls.
But the guys who are rolling technically, are getting much more work done, and capable of doing so for 2-3 hours or more.

Errah of course like, I was at it less than three months and gave it up when I moved back to London. I was probably doing everything conceivable wrong and was with lots of other new fellas so we were probably spazzing out on each other every day.

Boom_Bap · 06-02-2015 12:35pm

If you roll with a more experienced person, you notice they are moving fluently rather than with strength. Once you learn to do that, you get less wrecked.

Chris89 · 06-02-2015 12:48pm

FTA69 wrote: »

Yeah, started rolling my first class and every class had a heavy emphasis on sparring. I think another factor was that some classes we didn't really warm up properly in a cold gym and that led to lots of pulls and strains.

There are few 'absolute rules' in jiu jitsu, there will always be exceptions.. but in my experience starting sparring too early will turn more people away from training than anything else!

I personally started this way, spar on the first day. There were no beginners classes so from day 1 i was training and sparring with more experienced grapplers. I was young and fit, and i enjoyed and benefited from this style of training. But a lot of people knocked it on the head pretty early.

If you are introduced to jiu jitsu like this, its very likely that you will be roughed up in your first few classes. Its generally accepted in the jiu jitsu community (especially among the more old school academies) that there is a bit of a baptism with fire in BJJ and you will have to tough it out as a beginner and ony the strong will survive etc. I agree that this is beneficial and will probably breed tougher training partners and martial artists but heres a few thoughts..

I teach the beginners classes at our academy, and even though myself and all the other instructors sparred from day 1 in our training - there is NO sparring in our beginners classes.
We have a warm up, consisting of isolated movement patterns which will be required for the technique in the class to come (hip escapes, bridges, technical stand ups) and some body weight exercises and movements to get the blood flowing and the joints warm!

Then for the rest of the class, we practice technique, usually starting with just one and expanding on it to create a whole sequence by the end of the class. For example, the first technique might be a closed guard opening and pass to the side control. By the end of the class we will be practicing opening the guard, passing to the side control, transitioning to the mount, and finishing with an armbar.

We have plenty of open mat time at the academy, so we make sparring OPTIONAL for all beginners. Most take the opportunity for a couple of spars early, but do so at their own pace! Maybe just one the first day after class, then two the next week and so on! But quite a few students prefer to stick with the technique, let their bodies adjust to moving on the floor and around another person! A lot of people tell me they woke up sore all over after one of our beginners classes, even without sparring jiu jitsu can be very challenging on the body if you have never done any movement like this!

This method caters to both types of student, the fit and able and the students looking to become fit and able.

In a gym where you spar from day 1, it is likely that the beginners get mushed around and tapped regularly for their first few months. If i have been training like this for 5 months, and a new beginner comes into class to spar, i will be delighted that i get to spar with someone i can beat, and its a fair bet that i will unleash my full capacity of wrath on you - as its my first opportunity to finally tap someone! The new guy will either get turned away, as he is getting injured, or intimidated or whatever. OR he will stick around like me, and in 5 months time will be pulling the head off some other poor young lad on his first day.

Like i said before, this will toughen you up for sure, people who train like this are usually very hard to submit later in their careers, probably two big cauliflower ears and can grind it out with most on the mat. BUT it also turns a lot of newbies away.

When sparring is an option, you can still become the tough untappable behemoth i mentioned above, but you can also ease yourself in if you are unfit, nervous, young, small in stature or whatever.

I will say though, that those who avoid sparring for too long, usually have a grand understanding of the technique, but when they do eventually spar they crumble under any sign of real pressure, often lack that grit and determination to battle out of a dodgy position. So even though it is not compulsory, I still advise beginners to try it within the first few weeks!

For anyone thinking about trying BJJ, consider the above. One option might appeal to you more than the other. And for anyone who gave up after a few weeks, consider the above also!

If you had no experience of football, and you came to my football class, and i showed you how to take a corner kick and how to do a throw in - and told you to go off and play a full 90 minute match with more experienced players at the end of class - you probably wouldn't be scoring too many goals anyway.

Sorry for the long post, this is something i have been thinking about recently so had a few thoughts fresh in the head!

be interested to hear some of your guys opinions/experiences of this

dardis · 06-02-2015 1:39pm

Chris89 wrote: »

If you had no experience of football, and you came to my football class, and i showed you how to take a corner kick and how to do a throw in - and told you to go off and play a full 90 minute match with more experienced players at the end of class - you probably wouldn't be scoring too many goals anyway.

Nice

Clive · 06-02-2015 2:16pm

Chris89 wrote: »

There are few 'absolute rules' in jiu jitsu ...
be interested to hear some of your guys opinions/experiences of this

+1 to all of this. I had an interesting conversation with another coach about this recently - he had a great phrase for it " coaching masturbation" (sorry mods!). Taking someone who is fit, dedicated and driven, teach them a few techniques and send them off to win medals isn't that difficult. That type of person you can set doing a drill, head off for a cup of coffee and when you come back they'll be doing exactly what they were told.

Taking someone unfit, nervous and timid and helping them flourish is far more rewarding to me.

Doug Cartel · 06-02-2015 2:20pm

Chris89 wrote: »

Sorry for the long post, this is something i have been thinking about recently so had a few thoughts fresh in the head!

be interested to hear some of your guys opinions/experiences of this

This probably deserves a thread on its own to be honest. I can split it off if you want.

Anyway, I used to be captain of my judo club in college, and one of my main duties was meet and greet the new members, answer their questions and try and help them get settled in. From this experience I can tell you that the majority of people get scared off by being thrown into sparring on their first night.

On the other hand there is still a sizeable minority who really like the fact that they can get stuck in straight away. Personally I did randori/rolling/whatever you want to call it of my first judo session and I loved it. I'm not even sure why I went to the class, as I was training muay thai at the time, but after a few rounds of judo I was an instant convert.

I agree that sparring should be optional, and furthermore I think it should be opt-in not opt-out, at least for the first while, and it needs to be made clear to the beginners that they are not expected to do it until they have had a chance to get to understand what is expected of them.

There have been a few times in more than one club where I have been partnered up with someone and it turns out they haven't got a clue what the rules are, or even what they are supposed to be doing. This is after they have already had several rounds against other beginners who don't have much of a clue themselves. I don't think anyone should be put in that position.

When I started, I was only partnered with experienced people, and they made damn sure I knew what the rules were, stopping any time there was an issue and explaining everything to me. If I had been partnered up with a beginner, I probably would not have had such a positive experience. To say the least.

I will say though, that those who avoid sparring for too long, usually have a grand understanding of the technique, but when they do eventually spar they crumble under any sign of real pressure, often lack that grit and determination to battle out of a dodgy position. So even though it is not compulsory, I still advise beginners to try it within the first few weeks!

I think the thing here is that you are going to take a while to get used to sparring and it's something you need to be eased into gradually. Simply delaying it just means you are still being thrown in the deep end all of a sudden, it's just happening later on.

I dislike when people go to either end of the scale, either making people spar straight away, or else holding it off for years and years, like it's something only advanced students should do. As with most things in life you have to strike a balance.

Doug Cartel · 06-02-2015 2:29pm

Clive wrote: »

Taking someone who is fit, dedicated and driven, teach them a few techniques and send them off to win medals isn't that difficult. That type of person you can set doing a drill, head off for a cup of coffee and when you come back they'll be doing exactly what they were told.

Taking someone unfit, nervous and timid and helping them flourish is far more rewarding to me.

How about trying to run a class which has to cater to both these people at once?

yourdeadwright · 06-02-2015 2:30pm

MartyMcFly84 wrote: »

I would say if you relax a bit more it wont take so much out of you. Often lifters "hulk out" and try and squeeze their way through the class or rolls. If you chill out and loosen up you will find you can train much more regularly.

But of course I am sure you moved loads of muscles in a way they have not been moved in 5 years , a sure case of the aches if I ever heard one

- Don't roll like your life depended on it , or its the finals of the black belt mundials and you will be fine. Worse that happens, the guy passes your guard and/or you tap out and start again.

I think it was more from just moving in new ways, cause im pretty quick to tap and try my best to use movement more than strength, All round it was very enjoyable and looking forward to hitting the mats again tonight,

FTA69 · 06-02-2015 3:30pm

There's also the other issue where some gyms have an "ultimate warrior" mentality where people get knocked to sh*t immediately in sparring. That's also something that p*sses me off. I compete at the boxing and still have no bother sparring everyone from women half my size to raw beginners, I can adjust myself to their level and try take something from the experience. (Obviously I wouldn't be doing that if I'd a fight coming up.) However in some gaffs they do have a "sink or swim" mentality which will put 95% of people off and you could lose someone potentially very good because everyone decided to hammer him in his first few days.

MartyMcFly84 · 06-02-2015 3:40pm

some gyms have an "ultimate warrior" mentality

Smells like victory!

Mellor · 07-02-2015 6:44am

I agree with the general point Chris89 was making. In that forcing people to spar and roughing them up serves isn't a great approach. In that case, not sparring for a while is probably the better option.

But I'd disagree that the options are polarised like that. You can spar without roughing them up. And maybe if you don't put them through a trial by fire starting out, they will be less inclined, when they a few months under their belt, to pull the head off some new beginners.

Chris89 · 07-02-2015 3:15pm

Mellor wrote: »

I agree with the general point Chris89 was making. In that forcing people to spar and roughing them up serves isn't a great approach. In that case, not sparring for a while is probably the better option.

But I'd disagree that the options are polarised like that. You can spar without roughing them up. And maybe if you don't put them through a trial by fire starting out, they will be less inclined, when they a few months under their belt, to pull the head off some new beginners.

A newcomer to sparring in many cases will rough themselves up. Perhaps 'roughing up' was not the best choice of words on my part.
Exerting too much energy in all positions, trying to move your opponent instead of moving yourself, incorrect breathing, adrenaline, ego issues. All of these will play a part in how a beginner may feel after their first day of sparring.

While we are all practicing the same martial art, we all bring different life experiences to the mat. And while I certainly wouldnt 'rough up' a beginner myself, i cannot say the same for everyone! I am not saying anyone is intentionally wrecking the new guy so he wont come back, or having flashbacks to their first spar and taking it out on their new partner.

But, as I (and maybe you?) have been sparring for a long time, with lots of different people, I have the experience to read my partner. A few examples would be - listen to their breathing, feel the tension in their muscles, see if they appear panicked.
Because I am experienced enough in sparring to remain calm and assess all of this, I can make the correct decisions on how to manage the 'fight' and protect my partner from injury.

I would say it is rare that a newcomer is injured, roughed up, or turned off the sport by an experienced grappler.

I think the issue is new lads getting beaten up by slightly less new lads.

I doubt there is any real malice behind any of these incidents, just lack of awareness, ego control, inability to stay calm.

At the end of the day though, an ould roughing up will serve you well. Too many softboys walking around this world thinking theyre unstoppable.

I suppose theres a time and a place for sending someone home with their tail between their legs!

darced · 07-02-2015 11:26pm

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Chris89 · 08-02-2015 12:10am

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You are like me so, and many others. But there are people who would (for reasons listed before- and many more) need to take it a bit slower or else theyll pack it in after the first week.

Plenty of killers at our school who started slow and can go at it hard now!

Andrew H · 21-02-2015 4:27am

Mouthalmighty wrote: »

Never heard of team balance but Bjj Revolution is (if I'm not mistaken) is Andy Ryan's gym. Trust us train there he's a pioneer of the sport of BJJ and MMA in Ireland, a black belt in Bjj and Judo and an excellent coach to boot. A serious dude to train with.

Phil Migliarise is the leader of Team Balance and in this podcast he tells us about his life choices and how he became involved in leading Team Balance, receiving his 5th degree Black Belt from Relson Gracie and talking about his 35 affiliates though out the World.

Team Balance Ireland are lucky enough to have an affiliation to Team Balance and Ray Butcher has received his Black Belt off of Phil.

Team Balance Ireland trains with Phil and Rick as much as possible through our affiliation and we have Team Balance Members coming to Dublin and going over to Philly to train and offer their advice on training on a regular basis.

Here is the link to Phil's life story, training under Rorion, Royce, Helio and Relson Gracie and founding Team Balance:

cletus · 21-02-2015 9:51am

I found that "isolated rolling" (that's trademarked by the way

) worked well with beginners.

By this I mean that for the first few classes, instead of normal rolling, you ale them only roll the particular escape/drill etc that they worked on in class, but at full pace.

This way they get some feeling for working with non compliant partners, making the technique work or not, but without the feeling of being absolutely at a loss as to what to do when their partner ties them up in a position they've never seen

Kettlebelljim · 02-03-2015 12:15am

When I started bjj I was the new guy for almost 6 months. I was rolling from the get go and was spazzing like mad. Eventually you learn to tap early and tap often. This forced me to learn how to defend and defend well.
I agree with the teaching of a technique in a beginners class and drilling various variants and finishing with a couple of rounds of specific sparring for time. Basically starting in the positions relevant to the technique covered.
As the beginners advance over a few weeks they will have a few basic techniques in their repertoire to be able to roll with each other.
The most important thing I learned (after tapping early) was to relax under pressure and be patient.
Some days you are the hammer, other days you are the nail.

yourdeadwright · 02-03-2015 3:30pm

Kettlebelljim wrote: »

When I started bjj I was the new guy for almost 6 months. I was rolling from the get go and was spazzing like mad. Eventually you learn to tap early and tap often. This forced me to learn how to defend and defend well.
I agree with the teaching of a technique in a beginners class and drilling various variants and finishing with a couple of rounds of specific sparring for time. Basically starting in the positions relevant to the technique covered.
As the beginners advance over a few weeks they will have a few basic techniques in their repertoire to be able to roll with each other.
The most important thing I learned (after tapping early) was to relax under pressure and be patient.
Some days you are the hammer, other days you are the nail.

Id have to agree once you learn to relax and flow instead of trying to force everything and hold everyone life you life depends on it, it becomes a lot easier , I suppose like anything the more you spend on the mat the more relaxed you become

yourdeadwright · 10-03-2015 6:03pm

anyone ever suffer from Mat burn on there chin from rolling,
At least I think its from the mat or maybe a combation of mat and people shoulders or writs while trying for chokes,
Any way to heal it quicker,

Mellor · 11-03-2015 1:39am

Never on my chin, but I get them on the front of my toes. Awkward to heal. Keep it clean and sue antiseptic cream.
I used to use a iodine powder on my feet, found it very good.

Boom_Bap · 11-03-2015 10:29am

Sure it's mat burn? I've seen people pick up infections from the mat that look like burns but aren't.

http://www.poss-mma.com/common-skin-diseases-spread-during-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-training/

If it is a skin thing, don't roll as you are risking infecting others.

Thinking of starting BJJ

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