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The "Border Fox" has seen the light.

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    #32
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    mossieh wrote: »
    Quite true Noel.
    It is only my opinion. I think that indoctrination to a religion from early childhood is akin in method (not purpose) to the enrolment of children in the hitler youth. It's hard for people to shake off beliefs that are drilled into them as kids. It is brainwashing, in my opinion.
    Was it hard for you to shake it off? I think it's very easy in fact.


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    #33
    mossieh
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mossieh


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Was it hard for you to shake it off? I think it's very easy in fact.

    Personally, yes it was. At the age of fourteen, deciding that if there was a god as I had truly believed, that he had utterly betrayed me was pretty traumatic. It took me a long time to get from thinking that god was a complete * to the realisation that I was the * for having believed in him.

    *insert the bad word of your choice, my choice would get me banned sharpish.


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    #34
    interestinguser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 73 ✭✭interestinguser


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Was it hard for you to shake it off? I think it's very easy in fact.
    Rubbish. People who genuinely hold religious beliefs will not just shake them off, especially beliefs that are drilled in from childhood. It can be very difficult in fact.


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    #35
    mossieh
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mossieh


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Was it hard for you to shake it off? I think it's very easy in fact.

    Would you find it easy Noel?


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    #36
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    mossieh wrote: »
    Personally, yes it was. At the age of fourteen, deciding that if there was a god as I had truly believed, that he had utterly betrayed me was pretty traumatic. It took me a long time to get from thinking that god was a complete * to the realisation that I was the * for having believed in him.
    Maybe this is prying too much but how did/could God betray you? I'm sorry you felt this way.
    interestinguser wrote: »
    Rubbish. People who genuinely hold religious beliefs will not just shake them off, especially beliefs that are drilled in from childhood. It can be very difficult in fact.
    Why would someone who is, for example, a faithful Catholic want to drop their faith? On the other hand if religion means nothing to you, it's easy to stop going to Mass and praying etc.
    mossieh wrote: »
    Would you find it easy Noel?
    Certainly not, it would be like cutting an arm off. I'm talking about people who have no time for religion.


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    #37
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    That Christianity is brainwashing, is your opinion, nothing more.

    http://jcnot4me.com/Items/Misc%20Topics/brainwashing.htm

    Basically with that link, I am asking outside of your faith how can you be sure? Your always telling us atheists how arrogant we are. Maybe there is an element of "do as I say not as I do" in that?


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    #38
    mossieh
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mossieh


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Maybe this is prying too much but how did/could God betray you? I'm sorry you felt this way.
    Too personal to get into on a public forum Noel, sorry. All I will say is that to someone who was as a kid, completely accepting of the faith I was brought up in, a sequence of fairly catastrophic incidents in my life showed me that my prayers were wasted breath. I think the prayer of a child to a god he believes in, is something that a just god could not ignore. Mine did. Someone close to me at the time kept repeating the mantra: 'god is good', well, he has a funny fu*king way of showing it.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Why would someone who is, for example, a faithful Catholic want to drop their faith? On the other hand if religion means nothing to you, it's easy to stop going to Mass and praying etc.
    Well we were talking about people who were indoctrinated from childhood.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Certainly not, it would be like cutting an arm off. I'm talking about people who have no time for religion.
    Ironically, losing an arm at the age of eight was the first trial that your loving god set me and my family. There was much more to follow.

    Despite how this might sound, I'm not bitter. I do however, find it difficult to listen to guff about 'god's plan for us'.
    Knowing that in a random universe, shít happens, is a much greater source of comfort to me.

    I've gone seriously off-topic here. Apologies OP.


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    #39
    wolfsbane
    Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Yes I'm glad too. Anyone else our there glad? :)
    Delighted, if it's true. I know several former terrorists who are truly changed men by the grace of God.

    I know others who at some stage professed to be born again but their lives subsequently showed them to be bogus. A guilty conscience causes some to adopt a religious profession, but without the real heart change the Holy Spirit brings.

    I note from the article that some victims of republican terror are unhappy at his change. How sad, but it just points up the fact that the Protestant community, like the Catholic one, is composed mainly of unbelievers. Protestant in name only, without the knowledge of God and His salvation in their hearts.


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    #40
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    mossieh wrote: »
    Quite true Noel.
    It is only my opinion. I think that indoctrination to a religion from early childhood is akin in method (not purpose) to the enrolment of children in the hitler youth. It's hard for people to shake off beliefs that are drilled into them as kids. It is brainwashing, in my opinion.

    I'm quite sure that you have no idea what you are talking about.


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    #41
    wolfsbane
    Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    mossieh said:
    Too personal to get into on a public forum Noel, sorry. All I will say is that to someone who was as a kid, completely accepting of the faith I was brought up in, a sequence of fairly catastrophic incidents in my life showed me that my prayers were wasted breath. I think the prayer of a child to a god he believes in, is something that a just god could not ignore. Mine did. Someone close to me at the time kept repeating the mantra: 'god is good', well, he has a funny fu*king way of showing it.
    I sympathise with you troubles, my friend. Life is indeed hard at times.

    Let me suggest to you that the true God heard your prayers, and has done you good in sparing you to this time, delivering you from the false gospel you had your hopes in. Had life not soured your trust in it, you might well today be looking to a Church to get you to heaven and submitting your conscience to men rather than God.

    Every Christian knows something of that, for we had to lose hope in everything else but God before we would put our trust in Him alone. Paul the apostle had to lose his faith in Judaism, in his own attempts to merit God's favour, before he could bow to Jesus Christ and accept His righteousness. Luther had to abandon his trust in the Church and penance before he could be justified by faith alone.

    God is good to all in the sense that He gives so many good gifts to believers and unbelievers alike: rain, sun, food, shelter, family, etc. To some degree we all have those. He could have justly destroyed us all, but has spared us to this time.

    But the ultimate good God does is reserved for His people, for those who trust in Him. He forgives their sins and is going to bring them to live with Him forever. The afflictions of this life will soon be over, but and endless eternity of peace and joy awaits all to trust in Him.
    Matthew 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

    Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us...
    28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


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    #42
    mossieh
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mossieh


    Fanny Cradock wrote: »
    I'm quite sure that you have no idea what you are talking about.

    :) ok. Thanks for sharing.


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    #43
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Wolfsbane, that post is just despicable. What a cheap shot. You should be ashamed of yourself.


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    #44
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    mossieh wrote: »
    :) ok. Thanks for sharing.

    Anytime :)


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    #45
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Whats wrong with Wolfsbane's post?


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    #46
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    mossieh wrote: »
    I've gone seriously off-topic here. Apologies OP.
    No worries.
    keano_afc wrote: »
    Whats wrong with Wolfsbane's post?
    I see absolutly nothing is wrong with Wolfsbane's post. I was also delivered from the same false religion that was forced down my troath with out choice for the first 20 years of my life. Thank God I found the real truth in the scriptures and not the false hope in worldly man made religion.

    "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" John 8vs32


  • Options
    #47
    mossieh
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭mossieh


    wolfsbane wrote: »
    mossieh said:

    I sympathise with you troubles, my friend. Life is indeed hard at times.

    Let me suggest to you that the true God heard your prayers, and has done you good in sparing you to this time, delivering you from the false gospel you had your hopes in. Had life not soured your trust in it, you might well today be looking to a Church to get you to heaven and submitting your conscience to men rather than God.

    Every Christian knows something of that, for we had to lose hope in everything else but God before we would put our trust in Him alone. Paul the apostle had to lose his faith in Judaism, in his own attempts to merit God's favour, before he could bow to Jesus Christ and accept His righteousness. Luther had to abandon his trust in the Church and penance before he could be justified by faith alone.

    God is good to all in the sense that He gives so many good gifts to believers and unbelievers alike: rain, sun, food, shelter, family, etc. To some degree we all have those. He could have justly destroyed us all, but has spared us to this time.

    But the ultimate good God does is reserved for His people, for those who trust in Him. He forgives their sins and is going to bring them to live with Him forever. The afflictions of this life will soon be over, but and endless eternity of peace and joy awaits all to trust in Him.
    Matthew 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

    Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us...
    28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

    Extraordinary, truly extraordinary.


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    #48
    PDN
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,686 ✭✭✭✭PDN


    mossieh wrote: »
    Sorry for the truncated quote but that line interested me. It didn't strike me that Wicknight was unhappy 'that an extremely dangerous individual appears to be following a path that is undoubtedly more beneficial to society' but that he saw no particular reason to be happy that Dessie O' Hare was now a christian. He doesn't have to be a christian to contribute to society you know. If anything, it's just swapping republican brainwashing for religious brainwashing. You're smart enough to argue without putting words in peoples mouths PDN.

    I don't see that I'm putting words in people's mouths at all.

    If it was reported that Osama bin Laden had renounced Islam, had become an atheist and was no longer going to participate in violence then I would be absolutely delighted. I certainly would not express my unhappiness that he had become an atheist. Even if we don't agree with someone's new belief system, we should be happy if their embracing of that belief system is going to lessen violence and suffering.


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    #49
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    mossieh wrote: »
    Personally, yes it was. At the age of fourteen, deciding that if there was a god as I had truly believed, that he had utterly betrayed me was pretty traumatic. It took me a long time to get from thinking that god was a complete * to the realisation that I was the * for having believed in him.

    *insert the bad word of your choice, my choice would get me banned sharpish.

    That was about the age by which I started to doubt my faith. However here I am aged 18 believing in Christianity, it's funny the way things work sometimes isn't it?


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