Squatting with heels elevated yes or no?

drdeadlift · 04-10-2014 9:23pm #1

Having problems with my ankle flexibility.Should i work on fixing that issue or simply elevate my heels?

Alf Veedersane · 04-10-2014 9:37pm

I'd always be inclined to try to fix the actual problem, where possible, rather than work around it.

But they're not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people with good ankle mobility use lifting shoes.

LuckyLloyd · 04-10-2014 10:18pm

Both

Nervous Wreck · 04-10-2014 11:24pm

First one, then the other. Sorting your ankle issues should be the priority, IMO.

Edit: I'd also only ever elevate my heels by wearing oly shoes. I'm completely against standing on plates as a method of raising the heels.

vinnyme · 06-10-2014 4:59pm

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Edit: I'd also only ever elevate my heels by wearing oly shoes. I'm completely against standing on plates as a method of raising the heels.

Amen to that. Standing on plates disrupts your grounding completely.

If you cant seem to fix your ankle mobility (which should only take a few weeks of tweaking with the right stretches) then by all means, go for the Oly shoes. As with Alf's comment, I also know a lot of guys with excellent mobility that use Oly shoes.

Darkest Horse · 06-10-2014 7:33pm

I don't agree that it's disruptive. It can be very helpful if the ultimate goal is to get the to floor by progressively lowering the raise, eventually graduating to no raise. Sometimes these issues have nothing to do with mobility and more with the body not wanting to get into a position in which your balance and stability is compromised, i.e. it won't let you get to a depth at which you could fall over. Just getting down into the position sends positive signals back to the brain (if there are no mobility issues present) and merely "feeling" what the position is like can often be the first step to ingraining it. For example, I've often used a small heel raise to assist people into catching a snatch in a deep position and to graduate from overhead squat to a full snatch. This works really well and it'll work for a conventional squat also. So work on the mobility of the ankle (which is hard to obtain) but also work on getting into positions and "feeling" what they are like in, first, unweighted and, then, in weighted patterns.

Mellor · 07-10-2014 12:22am

Darkest Horse wrote: »

Sometimes these issues have nothing to do with mobility and more with the body not wanting to get into a position in which your balance and stability is compromised, i.e. it won't let you get to a depth at which you could fall over.

What you are describing is still a mobility issue.
If your balance and stability is poor, then there's a mobility issue. If your body doesn't want to get into that position, it's a mobility issue. Children have no issues getting comfortably into that position, they don't need to learn it, and they are stable. Reason being, greater mobility and ROM within joints.

Darkest Horse · 07-10-2014 9:08am

Mellor wrote: »

What you are describing is still a mobility issue.
If your balance and stability is poor, then there's a mobility issue. If your body doesn't want to get into that position, it's a mobility issue. Children have no issues getting comfortably into that position, they don't need to learn it, and they are stable. Reason being, greater mobility and ROM within joints.

You are wrong. It's possible for somebody to be unable to do an unsupported bodyweight squat but to be able to do one when using the support of an outstretched trx or the hands of a trainer to lend the required stability.

Blacktie. · 07-10-2014 9:40am

Darkest Horse wrote: »

You are wrong. It's possible for somebody to be unable to do an unsupported bodyweight squat but to be able to do one when using the support of an outstretched trx or the hands of a trainer to lend the required stability.

How does this make him wrong? That till shows a stability and balance issue which he states is to do with mobility.

Darkest Horse · 07-10-2014 10:02am

Blacktie. wrote: »

How does this make him wrong? That till shows a stability and balance issue which he states is to do with mobility.

A lack of stability can be, but is not necessarily, caused by a lack of mobility. Look I'm just saying to work on both.

Mellor · 07-10-2014 10:48am

Darkest Horse wrote: »

You are wrong. It's possible for somebody to be unable to do an unsupported bodyweight squat but to be able to do one when using the support of an outstretched trx or the hands of a trainer to lend the required stability.

That doesn't prove me wrong, not even close tbh.
They can't squat unassisted because they can't keep their centre of gravity over their base. With the TRX, their centre is still out, they just hold themselves up to prevent falling. This is nowhere near a good squat position.

And it's absolutely a mobility issue. A really basic one tbh.

DAM...
...Dat Ankle Mobility

Alf Veedersane · 07-10-2014 10:54am

I'm not sure if anyone is saying this isn't the case but there is a difference between stability and mobility and improving mobility doesn't necessarily mean that stability will follow.

Hanley · 07-10-2014 11:10am

Darkest Horse wrote: »

You are wrong. It's possible for somebody to be unable to do an unsupported bodyweight squat but to be able to do one when using the support of an outstretched trx or the hands of a trainer to lend the required stability.

No.

Because of...

Mellor wrote: »

...the shin angle here - look at where the knee is relative to the ankle. Do that without support and you fall arse over tit because of center of gravity.

And if you do try and keep a shin angle approximating that you need to lean incredibly far forwards to the point there your chest is over your toes, which turns it more into a GM and pretty much removes all quad involvement anyway so it's not even worth doing.

This is all pretty simple;

> raise the heels if you need to
> if raising the heels ATTACK foot / calf / ankle
> ball to foot x2mins/side/day
> roller to calf x2min/side/day
> stretch calf x2min/side/day
> improve joint ROM x2min/side/day

There's nothing wrong with an inch to two elevation. Especially if wearing weightlifting shoes.

And as stated - you should be able to do all these things barefoot. But once you have that base level movement capacity, then using shoes for better positions makes a lot of sense.

Hanley · 07-10-2014 11:12am

Also anyone else cop how much her knees are pulling in there? So much for "stability" helping position.

Mellor · 07-10-2014 11:29am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not sure if anyone is saying this isn't the case but there is a difference between stability and mobility and improving mobility doesn't necessarily mean that stability will follow.

Yeah of course. Both are required, usually in different areas. Mobility work might not help a joint stability issue.

But a stability issue won't manifest as an inability to squat to proper depth, especially not one that's alleviated by raising your heels.

Alf Veedersane · 07-10-2014 11:44am

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah of course. Both are required, usually in different areas. Mobility work might not help a joint stability issue.

But a stability issue won't manifest as an inability to squat to proper depth, especially not one that's alleviated by raising your heels.

I had a train of thought that disappeared down the tracks after I started typing but I concur with that.

Darkest Horse · 07-10-2014 2:46pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not sure if anyone is saying this isn't the case but there is a difference between stability and mobility and improving mobility doesn't necessarily mean that stability will follow.

My point is getting somewhat convoluted here but this is what I am trying to say. I'm not suggesting a mobility issue can be fixed by taking a stability based approach.