Principals & The "600 points" Students

AlekSmart · 29-08-2014 9:26pm

Begrudgery.....that's the word I was stuck for....:)

evolving_doors · 29-08-2014 9:29pm

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

Well if your working hard to get 200 points, then school might not be for you. Maybe you'll make a great actor or singer or... there are so many jobs that you don't need pen or paper for...
Put it this way when i went to school, it was the 15 year old that made the senior team that was the talk of the school... untill the LC results came out. Now no one was complaining that they weren't getting any attention because they weren't athletically gifted. No one should be complaining about not getting attention if they're not acedemically gifted... its not ur fault

First off:

What if you're working hard to get the 200 points and having a good experience in school and you get the course you want?? I don;t think anyone has the right to tap on the shoulder and say "Sorry sonny school probably just ain't for you".

School/Education is not about working towards 600 points..

singers and actors can get high points too BTW.. but i take your point that college ain;t for everyone.!!

As regards the last point, I think what the OP is saying is that the measure of achievement is purely the 600/A1's that appear in the paper every year without fail. It should be about "education" and every other success that happens in a teenagers life which should be celebrated.

and even then what do the results 'prove'... Personally I just blame the media for lazy/run of the mill journalism that is a box ticked on a calendar in the news office every year. (Not forgetting of course who benefits when all the grind/repeat schools rush to advertise their courses with exxxccceptional teachers lecturers. )

Mary63 · 29-08-2014 9:30pm

Plumbers marry hairdressers,doctors marry other doctors,that is the way it is and always has been.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with any occupation that pays you a salary but if you have to slog to get 250 points after six years in secondary school university is not for you.

evolving_doors · 29-08-2014 9:36pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Im not assuming people who didnt get 600 points were faffing about,i mentioned that in relation to OP who said the wonderful give it all a go characters didnt get credit for all the extra stuff they did,well,why should they,they obviously got involved because they enjoyed the experience,are we supposed to put all the Gaisce award winners on the front page.
Byhookorbycrook,it is a fact that the private schools top the leagues tables every year and their average points would be 450,you only have to look at the intake into the really high point courses in the top universities,the majority of students are from professional middleclass backgrounds.Plumbers sons and daughters dont go on to study law,brains are genetic and you cant turn a donkey into a racehorse.

Ahh hold on there, the primary role of the league tables is to show the transfer rate to third level college... Of course everyone going to grind schools go to college... so of course they are going to have the highest transfer rate to college!!

Mary63 wrote: »

Plumbers sons and daughters dont go on to study law,
brains are genetic
and you cant turn a donkey into a racehorse.

Could you provide a link to prove those 2 statements please?

rainbowtrout · 29-08-2014 9:42pm

Mary63 wrote: »

The student who didnt do anything else got the 600 points,this achievement is probably very rare in a school in a voluntary secondary school and naturally enough the principal wanted to take the brownie points.
The student who got the 600 points has probably got his first choice in medicine,the ones who got the 500 points and faffed around for the year will be fighting for places in DIT.

I'd love to see you post that in the Trinity forum. :pac:

acequion · 29-08-2014 9:43pm

[QUOTE=Mary63;91971282]Plumbers marry hairdressers,doctors marry other doctors,that is the way it is and always has been.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with any occupation that pays you a salary but if you have to slog to get 250 points after six years in secondary school university is not for you.[/QUOTE]

No Mary63 that is not the way it is. Maybe you live in some upper class enclave of rigid social boundaries and a breathtaking superiority complex.

But fortunately one of the good things about Ireland relative to other countries is that class divisions are not so rigid and actually I know a doctor who is married to a hairdresser and another lady doctor married to an electrician.

evolving_doors · 29-08-2014 9:46pm

acequion wrote: »

No Mary63 that is not the way it is. Maybe you live in some upper class enclave of rigid social boundaries and a breathtaking superiority complex.

But fortunately one of the good things about Ireland relative to other countries is that class divisions are not so rigid and actually I know a doctor who is married to a hairdresser and another lady doctor married to an electrician.

I know a farmer's daughter who became a Barrister!!! In Mary63's mileau that wouldn;t be allowed either i'd say..:pac::pac: wotwot

rainbowtrout · 29-08-2014 9:52pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Im not assuming people who didnt get 600 points were faffing about,i mentioned that in relation to OP who said the wonderful give it all a go characters didnt get credit for all the extra stuff they did,well,why should they,they obviously got involved because they enjoyed the experience,are we supposed to put all the Gaisce award winners on the front page.
Byhookorbycrook,it is a fact that the private schools top the leagues tables every year and their average points would be 450,you only have to look at the intake into the really high point courses in the top universities,the majority of students are from professional middleclass backgrounds.Plumbers sons and daughters dont go on to study law,brains are genetic and you cant turn a donkey into a racehorse.

*bursting my arse laughing at this comment and how ludicrous it is

You do realise that intelligent people can do trades? That not everyone wants a university education, and up until the mid 90s many were simply not able to afford it before the fees were abolished so they went and did trades/got a job?

I'm an electrician's daughter, both my parents left school at 15, they don't have academic qualifications. I hold qualification from four universities. Neither of my parents are donkeys, they just didn't have the opportunity of getting a Leaving Cert not to mind go to third level. They made sure I got that chance. Your narrow view of the world is breathtaking.

I'm delighted to be able to say that I work in a VEC school and am watching lots of students heading away to third level at the moment who come from the backgrounds you think aren't capable of third level.

spurious · 29-08-2014 10:22pm

You could argue the really smart ones should be plumbers, not doctors.

People will put off checking out a lump longer than they will getting an overflowing toilet sorted.

I suspect/hope we are having our collective chains pulled by Mary63. (Flush!)

Feeded · 29-08-2014 10:46pm

The reason for starting this thread was because my Principal, while very vocal about the aspirations of the laving cert cohort back in March, shimmied up to the 600+ kid like a housebound dog greeting its owner after a day's work. It was a bit cringeworthy.

I was empathising with the other hard working kids who contributed to school life and managed to get brilliant grades in the process. To me, the kid who embraces the daily life of school with a generous spirit ( volunteers to help first years, plays in the school band at a week's notice, plays on a school team..or stays back after school to help throw up the Christmas crib) are far more rounded individuals and deserve some recognition for their multitasking ability. I heard today that there's a plan to publish an article in next week's paper but it's too late in my opinion...the Principal has subtly judged them by placing them in separate editions.

Of course I'm not naive; I know such photos help with promoting the school and help to keep us all in a job but it sends out another message too. An earlier post suggested that the dedication of the 600+ student should be recognised and I agree but there's no harm in referencing it in a more inclusive light.

oncex · 29-08-2014 10:55pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Plumbers marry hairdressers,doctors marry other doctors,that is the way it is and always has been.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with any occupation that pays you a salary but if you have to slog to get 250 points after six years in secondary school university is not for you.

And how did you do in your Leaving Cert Mary? :rolleyes::rolleyes: Daughter of a plumber, got 550...if only my father was a doctor I may have got the other 50 points

Witcher · 29-08-2014 11:47pm

Feeded wrote: »

To me, the kid who embraces the daily life of school with a generous spirit ( volunteers to help first years, plays in the school band at a week's notice, plays on a school team..or stays back after school to help throw up the Christmas crib) are far more rounded individuals and deserve some recognition for their multitasking ability.

Again, how do you know he doesn't partake in activities outside of school?

Or is it only school activities that help to make a well rounded individual?

'Someone who hasn't put up a school crib hasn't lived!!!' :pac:

Mary63 · 29-08-2014 11:54pm

I think we could give those students mug of the year award Blay.

LoveChanel · 30-08-2014 12:49am

Mary63 wrote: »

Plumbers marry hairdressers,doctors marry other doctors,that is the way it is and always has been.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with any occupation that pays you a salary but if you have to slog to get 250 points after six years in secondary school university is not for you.

You know you should not stereotype people. I know a doctor who has married a Carpenter. A considerable amount of wealthy people haven't gone to uni and haven't finished secondary school. Just because you only get 250 in the lc does not mean your future salary is gonna be bad.

evolving_doors · 30-08-2014 1:08am

OK, it's one thing to propose that socio economic background bestows advantage to offspring, but stating that plumbers can't beget solicitors (or whatever) is a bit DowntonAbbeyAsshattery.

Member has 'been sent to Belize' for a bit for flaming and not reading the charter, so back on topic.

LC student on newspaper with Principal...

Do not refer to this post etc.

Blackpanther95 · 30-08-2014 1:36am

Armelodie wrote: »

OK, it's one thing to propose that socio economic background bestows advantage to offspring, but stating that plumbers can't beget solicitors (or whatever) is a bit DowntonAbbeyAsshattery.

Member has 'been sent to Belize' for a bit for flaming and not reading the charter, so back on topic.

LC student on newspaper with Principal...

Do not refer to this post etc.

Okay so that means ^ just ignore that, and don't rebuttle or anything - ok cool.

Well obviously I don't agree with anything so silly, but I will say regarding the original post again, that if you ONLY study and your ONLY achievement is getting 600 points, is it so much to ask that you receive a bit of praise, on your own.

Feeded · 30-08-2014 8:03am

Blay wrote: »

Again, how do you know he doesn't partake in activities outside of school?

Or is it only school activities that help to make a well rounded individual?

'Someone who hasn't put up a school crib hasn't lived!!!' :pac:

Honestly, I know it's a regime of school, home and back again to school...and a Christmas Crib is like a good old barn raising...only this kid isn't interested in offering support to anyone else...I'm saying there are kids who can manage to do both and I've way more time for them...

evolving_doors · 30-08-2014 10:44am

Blackpanther95 wrote: »

Okay so that means ^ just ignore that, and don't rebuttle or anything - ok cool.

Well obviously I don't agree with anything so silly, but I will say regarding the original post again, that if you ONLY study and your ONLY achievement is getting 600 points, is it so much to ask that you receive a bit of praise, on your own.

I agree with you in the sense that its specifically results day and the student should get their dues...

I think though it runs much deaper than a photo in the paper...

For me it raises issues such as...
A rounded education:
(although in our school a student got the 625 and was into everything so the high achievers shouldnt be portrayed as a homogenous group who 'just study' to the detriment of everything else).

The points race:
If you have issues with the academic process then it kind of implies that 200points precludes you from college..when in fact I know a good few folk who didn't do to well but later in life went on to study in University.

As was mentioned earlier League tables are touted as being the best measure of a good school, when in fact it just shows the transfer rate from that school to third level only. I think its better to have a social mix where a school caters for all students including a trade, joining the army/guards, farmers,doctors,solicitors, stay at home parents. So it returns to the question of what the principal in the photo is 'selling'...and more importantly...what are all the grind school adds stuffed into that newspaper selling, cos it aint a holistic education to my mind.

And of course it leads nicely into the whole question of performance pay to teachers based on results.

So as far as the OP's point goes, I'd say in the microcosm world of ....results day=student with best result photo... then the student has fulfilled the requirement to appear in the paper.
But on a macro level...teachers are sick of the same old same old every year...

but maybe the nub is that the other students who are 'more rounded' shouldnt take any lesson from the token reward of the photo op. because everyone has their own achievements and struggles. They want to do well in school and other areas based on its own intrinsic merits...not because they might get the face in the paper to sell ads for grind schools.

mirrorwall14 · 30-08-2014 11:05am

I would like to see a proper spread in the local papers. The top student/students, the prefect who also achieved, the musician, sportsperson, the SEN student going to college etc etc. Essentially an acknowledgement that yes, even though this day may be about points there is no need for the media to continue to ignore other aspects of schooling.

rainbowtrout · 30-08-2014 12:37pm

Part of it feeds into the attitude if the principal. We had a 600 point student who I believe was on the paper - I didn't see it, but from what the principal told me a photographer from the local paper was hanging around outside the school from shortly after nine and asking all the students that came out if they would pose for a photo. Some said yes and some said no. Principal / teachers were not in photos. So there were a spread of photos from the school.

Blackpanther95 · 30-08-2014 4:43pm

Armelodie wrote: »

I agree with you in the sense that its specifically results day and the student should get their dues...

I think though it runs much deaper than a photo in the paper...

For me it raises issues such as...
A rounded education:
(although in our school a student got the 625 and was into everything so the high achievers shouldnt be portrayed as a homogenous group who 'just study' to the detriment of everything else).

The points race:
If you have issues with the academic process then it kind of implies that 200points precludes you from college..when in fact I know a good few folk who didn't do to well but later in life went on to study in University.

As was mentioned earlier League tables are touted as being the best measure of a good school, when in fact it just shows the transfer rate from that school to third level only. I think its better to have a social mix where a school caters for all students including a trade, joining the army/guards, farmers,doctors,solicitors, stay at home parents. So it returns to the question of what the principal in the photo is 'selling'...and more importantly...what are all the grind school adds stuffed into that newspaper selling, cos it aint a holistic education to my mind.

And of course it leads nicely into the whole question of performance pay to teachers based on results.

So as far as the OP's point goes, I'd say in the microcosm world of ....results day=student with best result photo... then the student has fulfilled the requirement to appear in the paper.
But on a macro level...teachers are sick of the same old same old every year...

but maybe the nub is that the other students who are 'more rounded' shouldnt take any lesson from the token reward of the photo op. because everyone has their own achievements and struggles. They want to do well in school and other areas based on its own intrinsic merits...not because they might get the face in the paper to sell ads for grind schools.

I think it also works the other way, people who get 600 points feel like they have "passed the tests" and now its time to reap the rewards when really they haven't done anything yet, if they don't work as or even harder than before they won't make a cent. The only reason nowadays to get 625 is to do medicine imo.

Pinkycharm · 31-08-2014 5:47pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Im not assuming people who didnt get 600 points were faffing about,i mentioned that in relation to OP who said the wonderful give it all a go characters didnt get credit for all the extra stuff they did,well,why should they,they obviously got involved because they enjoyed the experience,are we supposed to put all the Gaisce award winners on the front page.
Byhookorbycrook,it is a fact that the private schools top the leagues tables every year and their average points would be 450,you only have to look at the intake into the really high point courses in the top universities,the majority of students are from professional middleclass backgrounds.Plumbers sons and daughters dont go on to study law,brains are genetic and you cant turn a donkey into a racehorse.

Mary you are really pissing me off because what you are saying is complete and utter BULL. Plumbers sons and daughter DO go onto study law, medicine and whatever else they want to if they have worked for it. Lots in my school are prime examples of those you speak of.

Success IS NOT measured by points in any way. I myself got 590 in my leaving in 2008. Then, my mother was unemployed and my father worked in a creamery as well as doing college in the evening. He left school after his intercert and he's more successful than I am now.

I turned down medicine to go into teaching because I wanted to help other kids find their way up because I saw teachers in my own school not give two ****es about kids that struggled on the way up, who could have very well achieved great things with a little bit of attention.

Does that still mean my genetics are off?

Would LOVE to know your story!

EDIT::: Damn only saw above mod post now!!!!! Sorry!!!

On the other side though, I think maybe schools should have a little wall of fame for those who do achieve high in the school but should include those who have made huge progress too!

J.R. · 02-09-2014 9:20pm

Mary63 wrote: »

Plumbers sons and daughters dont go on to study law,brains are genetic and you cant turn a donkey into a racehorse.

Leonard Susskind's father was a plumber. He is the Felix Bloch professor of Theoretical physics at Stanford University,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10654762/The-man-who-proved-Stephen-Hawking-wrong.html

Blackpanther95 · 03-09-2014 3:20pm

J.R. wrote: »

Leonard Susskind's father was a plumber. He is the Felix Bloch professor of Theoretical physics at Stanford University,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10654762/The-man-who-proved-Stephen-Hawking-wrong.html

Nooooo Susskind is not (just) a professor, he is the inventor/creator of string theory!

But like there's no need to respond to obviously trolling posts.

Mary63 · 03-09-2014 7:02pm

Why respond so Blackpanther95.

And obviously it is of note that leonard Suuskinds father was a plumber,it is the rarity of this happening that makes it noteworthy,do a search of the backgrounds of professors in any university and you can bet your life the vast majority are from professional backgrounds.

trollfest deleted

spurious · 03-09-2014 7:07pm

Enough.

Principals & The "600 points" Students

Comments