Is it time to arm ourselves with weapons?

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 8:17am #1

In the front of todays 'The Star' newspaper there is an article about Padraig Nally calling for people in rural areas to arm themselves with guns after the recent spate of violent robberies.

What does AH reckon? Should we arm ourselves and be ready??

Living alone in rural Ireland myself, I can see the advantages, but I'd probably end up accidently shooting myself, so I'll stick with my dog for the moment!!

Feelgood · 10-01-2013 8:26am

I am armed already, with my penis.

Canis Lupus · 10-01-2013 8:29am

I want bear arms.

seamus · 10-01-2013 8:31am

Padraig Nally shot a fleeing injured man in the back. What would he know about self defence?

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 8:35am

PC brigade are up early:D

super_furry · 10-01-2013 8:37am

Boombastic wrote: »

PC brigade are up early:D

Excellent point, well argued. :pac:

Extinction · 10-01-2013 8:38am

seamus wrote: »

Padraig Nally shot a fleeing injured man in the back. What would he know about self defence?

Padraig Nally shot a thief, he could probably teach teach us a lot about how to treat criminals.

Death and Taxes · 10-01-2013 8:40am

Extinction wrote: »

Padraig Nally shot a thief, he could probably teach teach us a lot about how to treat criminals.

He shot dead an injured man crawling away from him on a public road.

Extinction · 10-01-2013 8:46am

WileyCoyote wrote: »

He shot dead an injured man crawling away from him on a public road.

An injured thief with 80 previous convictions.

Jimmy Garlic · 10-01-2013 8:48am

WileyCoyote wrote: »

He shot dead an injured man crawling away from him on a public road.

A man with over 80 convictions, many of them for assault. The man in question was a violent criminal.

Auldloon · 10-01-2013 8:49am

WileyCoyote wrote: »

He shot dead an injured man crawling away from him on a public road.

An injured scumbag with a history of violent attacks. I would have done the same.

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 8:50am

WileyCoyote wrote: »

He shot dead an injured man crawling away from him on a public road.

Well if the gardai couldn't catch him....

Ward was a 43-year-old traveller with approximately 80 convictions from 38 separate court appearances and had convictions for burglary, larceny and assault.[3] John "Frog" Ward had twice been committed to hospital for psychiatric treatment.[2] In 1999, he threatened a barman with a Stanley knife [4] Ward attacked a car with a slash-hook while a woman and two children were inside.[3] Ward had threatened Gárdaí in an incident in May 2002 [3] and with a slash, in April 2002.[3] At the time of his death he was facing charges of attacking Gardaí with a slash hook.[5] The court heard that a post-mortem examination and toxicology tests on Mr Ward's body found traces of cannabis, opiates and tranquillisers. It was also emphasised that Mr Ward had been receiving hospital treatment and was on medication for a condition.[5] The Prime Time Special (RTÉ flagship current affairs programme) brought forward new evidence showing that John Ward had a long criminal record dating back over 30 years and revealed that four bench warrants for John Ward’s arrest were outstanding at the time of his death [6]

intellectual dosser · 10-01-2013 8:51am

Extinction wrote: »

Padraig Nally shot a thief, he could probably teach teach us a lot about how to treat criminals.

Like how the punishment for burglary is death? Why wouldn't it surprise me with some of the inbalances in sentences being given out in this country.

No we shouldnt arm ourselves with weapons. IMO one of the reasons there is such a problem implementing gun control in America is because they have been so available for hundreds of years that there's now hundreds of millions out amongst the populace. Why would anyone want to be denied a gun knowing that millions of others have them, I wouldnt want to see a similar situation in Ireland.

Find the criminals involved in the burglaries and throw them in a cell with some big baldy bull qu**r for 5 years.

Jimmy Garlic · 10-01-2013 8:58am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Like how the punishment for burglary is death? Why wouldn't it surprise me with some of the inbalances in sentences being given out in this country.

Fair game imo. You can hand wring all you like but if someone broke into your property you would wish you had a gun.

Extinction · 10-01-2013 9:01am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Like how the punishment for burglary is death? Why wouldn't it surprise me with some of the inbalances in sentences being given out in this country.

No we shouldnt arm ourselves with weapons. IMO one of the reasons there is such a problem implementing gun control in America is because they have been so available for hundreds of years that there's now hundreds of millions out amongst the populace. Why would anyone want to be denied a gun knowing that millions of others have them, I wouldnt want to see a similar situation in Ireland.

Find the criminals involved in the burglaries and throw them in a cell with some big baldy bull qu**r for 5 years.

Garda numbers are being cut, there is no room in the prisons and no money to build more, older people and not so older people feel threatened, there are scumbags carrying out violent assaults. What should a person who is about to be assaulted do? Just roll over and accept becoming another victim?

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 9:02am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Like how the punishment for burglary is death?

Well if they trespass on someones property with intent to harm/rob, why are they so surprised when they are tackled?

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Find the criminals involved in the burglaries and throw them in a cell with some big baldy bull qu**r for 5 years.

In many cases the justice system has failed the people. How many convictions does someone need to be taken off the streets? All the time we hear of crimes committed by people with 50+ convictions

*polishes gun in rocking chair on porch

intellectual dosser · 10-01-2013 9:07am

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Fair game imo. You can hand wring all you like but if someone broke into your property you would wish you had a gun.

Good luck to you, you'll have to hope there is some technicality similar to Nally's that will get you off the hook.

intellectual dosser · 10-01-2013 9:09am

Boombastic wrote: »

Well if they trespass on someones property with intent to harm/rob, why are they so surprised when they are tackled?

I cannot agree that the punishment for trespassing/burglary is death.

Boombastic wrote: »

In many cases the justice system has failed the people. How many convictions does someone need to be taken off the streets? All the time we hear of crimes committed by people with 50+ convictions

Thats an argument for fixing our justice system, not arming ourselves with guns.

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 9:10am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Good luck to you, you'll have to hope there is some technicality similar to Nally's that will get you off the hook.

If that 94 year old women in Donegal had a gun and had used it, would the intruders be the victims all of a sudden?

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Thats an argument for fixing our justice system, not arming ourselves with guns.

The only fixing that has been done recently is the law allowing people to defend themselves in their own homes, pushing people to consider arming themselves. Instead of paying for all this legal aid to keep these people out of prison, we should invest it in protecting the citizens. How much every year is spend on legal aid for repeat offenders?

gimli2112 · 10-01-2013 9:10am

It would certainly help us with our population problem.

Extinction · 10-01-2013 9:10am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Good luck to you, you'll have to hope there is some technicality similar to Nally's that will get you off the hook.

Technicality or not I would protect my family.

intellectual dosser · 10-01-2013 9:14am

Boombastic wrote: »

If that 94 year old women in Donegal had a gun and had used it, would the intruders be the victims all of a sudden?

The only fixing that has been done recently is the law allowing people to defend themselves in their own homes, pushing people to consider arming themselves.

So, the context when I started posting was a 'thief in your home', Ward never attacked Nally to my knowledge.

The Donegal woman was viciously assaulted and of course she has every right to defend herself.

Extinction · 10-01-2013 9:19am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

So, the context when I started posting was a 'thief in your home', Ward never attacked Nally to my knowledge.

The Donegal woman was viciously assaulted and of course she has every right to defend herself.

I'm fairly sure that the context and the words that were used in the opening post was 'violent robberies'

Jimmy Garlic · 10-01-2013 9:21am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Good luck to you, you'll have to hope there is some technicality similar to Nally's that will get you off the hook.

"The Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011, allows for reasonable force by people who believe they need to use it to protect those in dwellings from assault, to protect property, to prevent a crime or to make an arrest. The law no longer requires a homeowner to retreat from a burglar, and extends to lands immediately around a dwelling."

There you go. If some punk wants to make my day then so be it.

gobnaitolunacy · 10-01-2013 9:22am

Boombastic wrote: »

Well if the gardai couldn't catch him....

Ward was a 43-year-old traveller with approximately 80 convictions from 38 separate court appearances and had convictions for burglary, larceny and assault.[3] John "Frog" Ward had twice been committed to hospital for psychiatric treatment.[2] In 1999, he threatened a barman with a Stanley knife [4] Ward attacked a car with a slash-hook while a woman and two children were inside.[3] Ward had threatened Gárdaí in an incident in May 2002 [3] and with a slash, in April 2002.[3] At the time of his death he was facing charges of attacking Gardaí with a slash hook.[5] The court heard that a post-mortem examination and toxicology tests on Mr Ward's body found traces of cannabis, opiates and tranquillisers. It was also emphasised that Mr Ward had been receiving hospital treatment and was on medication for a condition.[5] The Prime Time Special (RTÉ flagship current affairs programme) brought forward new evidence showing that John Ward had a long criminal record dating back over 30 years and revealed that four bench warrants for John Ward’s arrest were outstanding at the time of his death [6]

Somehow they find catching and containing some sections of society harder than others. How in world could this man still be at liberty at the time?

I dislike going down the right to bear arms route as in the States, but what valid option do frightened elderly people in rural areas have?

Edit: The article is sh*t-stirring in nature, but that is what you would expect from a populist red-top rag.

Thing is, if the justice system actually functioned as it should, the scumbag would be still alive, albeit behind bars.

Leftist · 10-01-2013 9:24am

the answer is yes.

due to a few attacks in rural areas we should sell firearms openly to everyone. Or is that just people from rural areas?

what a great, great idea.

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 9:27am

intellectual dosser wrote: »

....

The Donegal woman was viciously assaulted and of course she has every right to defend herself.

Yes, violent robberies

What if she pulled the trigger when as they were coming to assault her? They could claim they weren't there to rob her, only for a cup of tea. She'd be vilified. They'd be the victims.

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Somehow they find catching and containing some sections of society harder than others. How in world could this man still be at liberty at the time?

I dislike going down the right to bear arms route as in the States, but what valid option do frightened elderly people in rural areas have?

Especially when they know that there is no Gardai on duty within a 20 mile radius because stations have been shut down:(

BrensBenz · 10-01-2013 9:27am

Eh, lads? The Star?? Muck-stirring and yiz are falling for it.

Back to original question about arming ourselves. Let's, as usual, examine Yankland, but in a more caring, cuddly kind of way, i.e. we could issue free assault weapons and armour-piercing rounds with pensions and job-seekers allowances. After all, thanks to their translation of their constitooshunal right to bear arms to a padryotic dooty to bear arms, the US is crime free and....oh, wait, where's delete?
Anyway, there was no crime in Nurn Arn when the B-Specials and RUC had their weapons at home and ....oh, wait.
Well, maybe some weapons....for trained personnel, like the Gorthee. Oh, wait, Abbeylara!

Some time ago, my house was ignored during a local spate of burglaries. My family and our eleven stone Bernese Mountain Dog felt ostracised. When the BMD passed away, we economised and got a little Springer, but still no burglaries! Sorry but, when he goes, I'll draw the line at bug-eyed pugs and other canine rodents. Another loud, excited, unpredictable, thick-as-two-planks mutt for me.

PS: My buddy has a parrot who, whenever someone approaches the front door, shouts "there's no-one in". My buddy hasn't been burgled either!

Wing126 · 10-01-2013 9:31am

No. I don't want the type of people who would be robbing someone to have easier access to guns to use to rob people.

intellectual dosser · 10-01-2013 9:33am

Extinction wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that the context and the words that were used in the opening post was 'violent robberies'

I started posting in response to this:

Extinction wrote: »

Padraig Nally shot a thief, he could probably teach teach us a lot about how to treat criminals.

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

"The Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011, allows for reasonable force by people who believe they need to use it to protect those in dwellings from assault, to protect property, to prevent a crime or to make an arrest. The law no longer requires a homeowner to retreat from a burglar, and extends to lands immediately around a dwelling."

There you go. If some punk wants to make my day then so be it.

Marvellous ambiguous Irish legislation. Are there examples of reasonable force and what that implies? Context given on "believe they need to use it"?

Given that the thread is in reference to Nally, he said he was frightened for his life of Ward while standing over his crouched injured body before killing him from point blank range. You can expect these kind of defenses from people who felt they 'needed to use it'.

Boombastic · 10-01-2013 9:34am

BrensBenz wrote: »

Eh, lads? The Star?? Muck-stirring and yiz are falling for it.

Back to original question about arming ourselves. Let's, as usual, examine Yankland, but in a more caring, cuddly kind of way, i.e. we could issue free assault weapons and armour-piercing rounds with pensions and job-seekers allowances. After all, thanks to their translation of their constitooshunal right to bear arms to a padryotic dooty to bear arms, the US is crime free and....oh, wait, where's delete?
Anyway, there was no crime in Nurn Arn when the B-Specials and RUC had their weapons at home and ....oh, wait.
Well, maybe some weapons....for trained personnel, like the Gorthee. Oh, wait, Abbeylara!

Some time ago, my house was ignored during a local spate of burglaries. My family and our eleven stone Bernese Mountain Dog felt ostracised. When the BMD passed away, we economised and got a little Springer, but still no burglaries! Sorry but, when he goes, I'll draw the line at bug-eyed pugs and other canine rodents. Another loud, excited, unpredictable, thick-as-two-planks mutt for me.

PS: My buddy has a parrot who, whenever someone approaches the front door, shouts "there's no-one in". My buddy hasn't been burgled either!

Why compare us to the states? We are nothing like the states

Other countries have legal firearms allowed

With less than 5% of the world's population, the United States is home to roughly 35–50 per cent of the world's civilian-owned guns, heavily skewing the global geography of firearms and any relative comparison

Is it time to arm ourselves with weapons?

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