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Wheelchair user refused entry to Dublin Nightclub.

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    #92
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    Talking the wheelchair out of the equation completely I'd expect to be refused entry to most Dublin nightclubs on a weekend with shoes like he's wearing.

    Also, Of all the clubs in the City, did he choose to goto one in a basement and no wheelchair access, I mean its not like he couldn't have spent a half second on the interwebs and figured this wasn't the best choice for a night out.

    So well done mr wheelchair guy, you got a bouncer who was just doing his job fired, aren't you a can of awesome.


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    #93
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    Only one man for this Job, Joe Duffy.


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    #94
    builditwell
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭builditwell


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Yes I have. And what I make of it is: it's a deflection of responsibility to the bouncer, whereas the club itself should have had provisions for people who are in wheelchairs in the first place.

    Thats complete rubbish. The club doesn't have to provide facilities for less abled access as do many other pubs and clubs in Dublin because it is not enforced. The reason for the refusal is very clear here. If there is no way of getting the wheelchaired person into the club on his or her own, then they cannot safely use the club. Working in this industry in the past as a bar manager we were advised no to lift,carry or allow a wheelchair bound person to be carried.An example which was originally posted was if a staff member of security bouncer, tripped and caused further injury etc etc etc. Really its down to MONEY. Keep the insurance down , dont have any claims,keep the liability to an absolute minium.
    As of 2015 and all current buildings fall under a new less abled building guideline, this will keep happening until enforcement of the 2015 mandate comes to effect.


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    #95
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,655 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    toastedpickles wrote: »
    Nope, It's all new builds have to be accessible and show a disability cert, all existing buildings can alter parts of the place to comply with building regs, if they don't, they can be brought to court for not bringing their building up to standard, as far as I know anyways

    Can pubs/clubs be refused licenses if they're not whellchair accessible in that case? Seems like common sense to encourage premises to update their premisies..


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    #96
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    What reason they give?

    If they have stairs but no lift what way does this stand?


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    #97
    builditwell
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭builditwell


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Can pubs/clubs be refused licenses if they're not whellchair accessible in that case? Seems like common sense to encourage premises to update their premisies..

    How much would it cost to update a place to full less abled access versus how much revenue it would bring in versus not doing it in the first place. Yes its discrimination but many places simply cannot afford the renovations to provide these services. They easily could have in the past but who cared, Certainly not the government. It was never enforced properly


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    #98
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.


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    #99
    username123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them.

    And was this refused by the club?


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    #100
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

    So in 20 years to your knowledge he's been accommodated and the one time he's not he hits the internet has a moan, gathers an angry mob, backs the club into a corner and gets a guy fired.

    Sounds like a real inspiration all right. :rolleyes:


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    #101
    builditwell
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭builditwell


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.[/QUOTE

    So you just do exactly what staff and security are told they cannot allow in their business. Theres no way you would be in control of a situation like that. So its a rainy night u and your mates walk in pick up Grahams wheel chair, then slip and fall down the wet stairs. Whos fault is it then , somone would be loosing a job if not a few of the staff or the business completely after the claim is settled.


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    #102
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    So in 20 years to your knowledge he's been accommodated and the one time he's not he hits the internet has a moan, gathers an angry mob, backs the club into a corner and gets a guy fired.

    Sounds like a real inspiration all right. :rolleyes:

    Nail on head right there..


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    #103
    Problem123456
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭Problem123456


    Aadhya Full Sunglasses wrote: »
    Marc, I'm shocked.

    You have free admission with your friend to another club, any time, just check your PM.
    You're so kind maki


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    #104
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,655 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    builditwell wrote: »
    How much would it cost to update a place to full less abled access versus how much revenue it would bring in versus not doing it in the first place. Yes its discrimination but many places simply cannot afford the renovations to provide these services. They easily could have in the past but who cared, Certainly not the government. It was never enforced properly

    In that case there was a complete cop-out by venues. They had revenue in the celtic tiger years to do it then so why didn't they? A lack of enforcement on the government's part doesn't mean venues should get away scot-free.

    It should be seen as an investment. Approximately 13% (others estimate it at almost 19%) of the population has some form of disability so think of all the revenue that's being missed out on. Ideally the gov would pay a contribution to any upgrades but I don't see it happening in the current climate.


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    #105
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

    Well, assuming you're all drinking, I'm surprised more people wouldn't let drunk people carry a drunk guy in a wheelchair down stairs.
    We always used to ring ahead to pubs when we were heading out, and as I said, most of them said they don't have wheelchair access.


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    #106
    Gyalist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

    Do you think that any insurance company would be happy with you lifting him down the stairs?


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    #107
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Honestly, unless I had a way to get someone in a wheelchair into and out of the building, I wouldn't let them in. If it involves carrying and the person is dropped, the premises is liable. Even if someone else says they'll carry them.

    Not everywhere has to be wheelchair accessible as far as I know. If this place isn't and the bouncer was just making a common sense decision, then it's just nasty that he was fired. From what I understand the toilets are up a flight of stairs. So they're not accessible either. The guy would not need to be just carried in, but after every two pints, carried up the stairs. Either by staff who aren't trained or insured, or his mates, who are drinking too.

    It's the middle of a recession and a guy's been fired because he was doing his job.

    Lord Trollington wrote: »
    They know their position alright. They have been backed into a corner by baseless claims on facebook.

    It has generated 20,000 likes in 4 hours. By morning at that rate it will have 80,000 likes. Thats a lot of bad publicity.

    I have seen a similar complaint on the facebook page of the company where I work but a different department. I knew the full story and the one which was posted to the page couldn't have been much different. On investigation into the post it got 40 likes, every like was a friend of the person who posted it.

    That hows this mob frenzy mentality gets started.

    And lets face it, the kind of people who get involved in that sort of thing and give abuse are generally idiots.


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    #108
    Wabbit Ears
    Registered Users Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    It would be practically impossible to build wheelchair access to most of the basement nightclubs in Dublin. I'm all for wheelchair access but you just cant go around retrofitting every building which was built without this in mind, many of which are listed buildings.


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    #109
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    So in 20 years to your knowledge he's been accommodated and the one time he's not he hits the internet has a moan, gathers an angry mob, backs the club into a corner and gets a guy fired.

    Sounds like a real inspiration all right. :rolleyes:

    Clearly you don't know him :rolleyes:
    md23040 wrote: »
    That's a brilliant result OP.

    A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

    Just as an example, The Kitchen Nightclub has stairs, and wheelchair access has never been a problem there, because, guess what, I've seen the bouncers there, lock the wheelchair, and carry chair (with the user sitting in it) down to the bottom of the stairs.
    md23040 wrote: »
    Why don't you get your little camera out in other venues across Dublin with inadequate facilities, and force staff into a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" situation then destroy someone's business whilst forcing more people out of their jobs in a complete surreptitious and underhand manner.

    You might want to direct that at the person who actually took the picture ;)
    md23040 wrote: »
    You should have consulted the owners on the Monday and if they did not deal with the situation in a pragmatic manner, then you could have legitimate rights then to go down the internet witch hunt route.

    Not being a wheelchair user, and having never experienced what this guy must have felt like at the time, it's virtually impossible for me to fully comprehend how pissed off he must have been. Consequently, It's difficult for me to comment (on the mans behalf) as regards his reasoning for posting the story on FB to begin with.


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    #110
    bigpink
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭bigpink


    Until we know what was exactly said the group could have been refused,place might be over 21s 23s people drunk,people rude etc


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    #111
    builditwell
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭builditwell


    Eod100 wrote: »
    In that case there was a complete cop-out by venues. They had revenue in the celtic tiger years to do it then so why didn't they? A lack of enforcement on the government's part doesn't mean venues should get away scot-free.

    It should be seen as an investment. Approximately 13% (others estimate it at almost 19%) of the population has some form of disability so think of all the revenue that's being missed out on. Ideally the gov would pay a contribution to any upgrades but I don't see it happening in the current climate.

    Regardless of the current economic environment, most of the buildings in Dublin city alone would not be able to facilitate installation of lift shafts. Finding space for w/c facilities is not really an issue. Its the paying bums on seats for as little as possible that the government need to look at as in a minimum standard of premises before they open to the public and be accomodating to everyone.


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    #112
    JustAddWater
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭JustAddWater


    Statement from Madison

    TLDR bouncer was fired
    Madison Nightclub unreservedly apologise for the disgraceful treatment of Graham Bolger last night at the club. The person, who was with us from an outside agency for the last 4 weeks, has been dismissed with immediate effect and he will not be employed by the sub-contractor again. Our company policy is that the club is open to all. We have welcomed people of all abilities and will continue to do so. We are ashamed and embarrassed that this has happened. We have delayed posting here as we have been trying to contact Graham directly to apologise to him in advance of apologising publicly. We deeply regret what has happened and will ensure that it never happens again. We hope to speak to Graham directly as soon as possible


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    #113
    Andy-Pandy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,848 ✭✭✭Andy-Pandy


    If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.


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    #114
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    I've known Graham for 20 years and been to many clubs/pubs with him and he has always been accommodated by them. This is the first time this has ever happened to him, its only right the night club is named and shamed It's been simple really, if there are stairs we pick him up and carry him up or down them. A more inspirational person you will never meet, he is an incredible guy I have never seen his disability hold him back and he has made the best of his life despite the cards that have been played to him. Madsion have no comeback over this.

    I've been refused from plenty of places whilst working as a care attendant. It happens because the places just don't have the facilities and are terrified of being sued. More often we've been let into the ground floor, but not allowed upstairs because there's no life and we're not allowed to carry people upstairs.

    It's not like they ever said feck off. they've always been nice about it.


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    #115
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    marcsignal wrote: »
    Clearly you don't know him :rolleyes:

    I dont know him, I'm just going by how he dealt with this situation. And he didnt deal with it in an all too inspirational manner.


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    #116
    Cienciano
    Registered Users Posts: 14,231 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    marcsignal wrote: »
    A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

    Just as an example, The Kitchen Nightclub has stairs, and wheelchair access has never been a problem there, because, guess what, I've seen the bouncers there, lock the wheelchair, and carry chair (with the user sitting in it) down to the bottom of the stairs.

    My mate in a wheelchair wouldn't go somewhere were you have to be carried up or down stairs by bouncers because he considers that humiliating.
    Is having bouncers carry someone up or down stairs considered wheelchair accessible? I doubt it is.


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    #117
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,136 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.

    Legally as far as I know, the establishment is responsible for what happens. Whether you want to be or not.
    Besides, they have no idea if your nice or not. You could be nice smiley ba5tards.


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    #118
    Gyalist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    marcsignal wrote: »
    Clearly you don't know him :rolleyes:



    A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

    Just as an example, The Kitchen Nightclub has stairs, and wheelchair access has never been a problem there, because, guess what, I've seen the bouncers there, lock the wheelchair, and carry chair (with the user sitting in it) down to the bottom of the stairs.

    If that's true, it may be in violation of their Public Liability insurance. Are the doormen trained to lift safely? What happens if the there is an emergency evacuation of the premises?


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    #119
    builditwell
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭builditwell


    Grayson wrote: »
    Legally as far as I know, the establishment is responsible for what happens. Whether you want to be or not.
    Besides, they have no idea if your nice or not. You could be nice smiley ba5tards.

    As soon as youre admitted into a place ,the liability begins at the front door.


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    #120
    Gyalist
    Registered Users Posts: 2,537 ✭✭✭Gyalist


    Andy-Pandy wrote: »
    If on the off chance we ever did slip while carrying him it would be are fault. We are not c1nts and will take responsibility for are actions. Some of the attitudes on this thread are shocking.

    That's all well and good until the injured party gets lawyered-up.


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    #121
    McBauer
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭McBauer


    marcsignal wrote: »
    A generally, easy going bloke, who happens to be in a wheelchair, is publicly humiliated, as a result of (what I can gather by the claim in the OP, and by the clubs apology) a lack of professionalism. As the person himself has stated, he has never had this issue before. He suffered public embarrassment, and thus far, has an apology.

    If it was such an embarrassing incident then why did he go plastering it all over the internet? Why not deal with the situation privately with the company and/or a lawyer?


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