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Personal oppiniane needed here...

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    #32
    DenMan
    Registered Users Posts: 7,960 ✭✭✭DenMan


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    I think the op should visit Ireland as I think his views of what he thinks Ireland is like is somewhat different to the reality.

    Hi OPENROAD

    You are right, he has been advised to do so. Having him come over permanently before exploring his options fully would be wrong and ill-conceived.Setting up the thread and looking for genuine advice is what he wants and I hope he gets it.


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    #33
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    DenMan wrote: »
    Hi OPENROAD

    You are right, he has been advised to do so. Having him come over permanently before exploring his options fully would be wrong and ill-conceived.Setting up the thread and looking for genuine advice is what he wants and I hope he gets it.


    Hi

    Yes, very true,the best think the op can do is to visit the country a number of times and to try and get a feel of the place to see if it actually matches his expectations and if it matches what he thinks the country is actually like.

    Also from a practical point of view as a non Eu national does he not require a visa to live and work here?


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    #34
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,830 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    From PI with love.

    <3
    SeamusCallaghan wrote: »
    Right, first off I know that Ireland like any other country has its down sides too. I really do not think that I am idealizing Ireland it really has some a lot of what I think a country should have.

    1) culture
    Here in America we have no culture because we are such a young country with so many cultures living so close. We could have had some culture from the Native Americans if we had not killed most of them then forced the few that where left to live where we wanted them to live.

    Shotguns and Nascar. Its stupid, but hey! Culture! Look! Nascar!

    Seriously there is culture you just need to know where to look; you won't find it at Walmart or Circuit City. Visit the good cities, not the suburbs. Most cities in the USA are a dime a dozen sure, but plenty have a very rich life and culture: Chicago, Charleston, Seattle, San Francisco, New York, to name a few. Down Florida way I adore St. Augustine. Colonial Towns are the bees knees. And who doesn't sometimes wonder if they can hack it castrating bulls and living on a ranch out in Monatana? Mmm.
    2) government
    Here in America we have a lot of "freedoms" but at what cost? We have the highest crime rate of and country, we have one the the worst education systems, the most people in hail, the economy is falling fast and hard. To top all that off we are always trying to force our way of thinking and government onto other countries and if you do not see it our way will will attack you or stop trading with you or both.

    So instead of becoming a politician, an active member of society, or something to that nature, you'd rather turn tail and leave? Arnie didn't leave! Arnie came! He came and he worked his ass off and he saw it was good, but not quite good enough, so he ran for office and now he has his say in shaping the future of California and from what I hear he's been doing a bang-up job. A Republican that supports Gay Marriage? Whoda thunk it.
    3) Entertainment
    Here in America everything in the Entertainment Industry...the name just said it for me, Industry, they only think about making money and telling the American people what they should like. Entertainment is not decided by the "stars" but buy the people that sit in the office counting numbers. Now this one I could be wrong about but to me it just sames like most Irish bands play for the love of it not for the money and fame.

    I'm sorry, what Irish brands? What the hell do you think Ireland was trying to do when they genetically engineered the test-tube babies that eventually became known as Westlife? And Guiness incidentally, is just good. But they wouldnt do it if they didnt turn a hefty profit.
    4) Environment
    I love the countryside in the south. The weather in Ireland suits me just fine, yeah I know that I could find both those over here in America. One thing that is harder to find over here in America is the Organic farms. The percentage of organic farms in Ireland is much higher then over here in America. Working around plants is what I like to do and since I want to work on an organic farm then Ireland would be a better place to do that. Though the chances of them letting anyone in to the country to be a farm hand are zero to none.

    If you want to be an Organic Farmer, go to Pennsylvania and become Amish.

    How the **** would you know anything about the weather in Ireland without ever having spent 15 minutes there? The mind boggles. Its ****ing cold and its ****ing wet, and if its not ****ing cold or ****ing wet, its summer. but for 75% of the year, its miserable.
    5) People
    I know that it might not be right but I am judging the Irish people by the only two people I have known that where from Ireland. Both of the Irish people I knew shared my ideas about the problem with most (not all) American. Both Irish lads where great to be around.
    2 Irish people and I bet not one of them was a typical scumbag, lovable but delusional alcoholic or an overbearing irish mother.
    6) Language
    Yes, I know that most of Ireland does not speak Irish any more but I still it really is a nice sounding language.
    And you'll barely find anyone to hold a conversation of it here. Its an incredibly tiny demographic.
    Now:
    I am not daft enough to just get off the airplane go straight to the US embassy and renounce my citizenship. I was talking long term people. Plus, I am not sure how it works other places but in America if you renounce your citizenship if you get deported you still get sent back to America. Once back to America and prove you where an American citizen you are issued a "work visa".

    The movie The Terminal was nothing like this, in that movie the American government did not like the government of that country so they acted like it did not exist thus making Tom Hanks from a country that "did not exist".

    I know that I really do need to go over there to see but since I do can not work over there I would need thousands of dollars. I would need money for 3 months of housing, beer, food, and travel. Though since I would like the really small cities better I think that that would be cheaper. Plus I am scared that once I get there and my 90 days are up I would not want to leave. Would it be worse to go there for a 3 month tease only to have to come back "home" then never to have gone...

    So you want to move over there with no money, no job, no place to live and no ****ing clue?!

    I know money is getting tight in the states, but honestly, moving countries is not the solution. You think its any cheaper over there? Its not. Someone tell me whats the milk up to over there? its $4.25 at Publix right now for 1 gallon (close to 4 litres) and that means milks like what, $10 per gallon in Eire right now? More? Someone help me with that one.

    VAT (Value Added Tax - Its exactly like Sales Tax but its included into the shelf price) is 21%. a Pack of cigarettes is about $12. A Beer costs about $8. If you're trying to escape America's "failing economy" Ireland is a really stupid move (no offence lads)

    Its a pipe dream OP. A really, really narrow pipe dream. If you want the simple farm life go Amish. Or hell, go somewhere in the states. Im sure plenty of Farmers will hire. Go find yourself a nice hidey hole in the middle of the country where you dont have to worry about politics, and stop watching FOX - its woeful.

    If you're serious about this, go to Ireland on a 2 week vacation or something. If that sounds too expensive, then you are by no means ready for Ireland. Its a lovely place to visit but you get your fill closing in on 10 years :pac: Im heading back to the US of A and getting myself a gas guzzling SUV an inadequately sized pint of import guiness and a Hot Dog that doesnt come in a can.

    edit: hey im the plastic paddy around here, I have the myspace page to prove it!
    http://www.myspace.com/aplasticpaddy <--- yes, its horrendus. Its meant to be :D


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    #35
    Ruu_Old
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36,634 ✭✭✭✭Ruu_Old


    Get educated as much as you can before even thinking of moving to Ireland. Lots of reading here.


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    #36
    Nymph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19 ✭Nymph


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    OP, i think you're quite delusional. Unless you've been here, then you know nothing of the country.

    I have to agree with this completely. There's a lot more I'd like to say but MagicMarkers first sentence expresses my main sentiment.


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    #37
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Cmol wrote: »
    Weathers sh1te isnt it



    I like the rain :)


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    #38
    shenanigans1982
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    I have not read through all this and maybe its been said already but I don't get Americans obsession with Ireland. I have had this conversation with numerous Americans who all try and lay claim to being Irish....you were born in America therefore you are American. You live in what is quite possibly the best (and by this I mean laziest) country in the world....is the desire to have some kind of identity/history so bad that you would want to become a citizen of somewhere you have never been?


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    #39
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,830 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    most yanks i hear dream of Emerald Isle talk about the view. Its nice dont get me wrong, but it can be easilly trumped by the likes of Yellowstone or Niagra Falls or the Rockies or the Everglades.


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    #40
    SeamusCallaghan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭SeamusCallaghan


    Monkey61 wrote: »
    For a start, no matter how much you try, you will never be Irish...ever. You will never know what it feels like to be Irish or what it is to be Irish...ever. You are not Irish. I don't want to be harsh but there is absolutely nothing more annoying and likely to invoke scorn than an American claiming some sort of internal mystical kinship with Ireland - even more if it is a country that they have never been to.

    There is the anti-american group showing there voice! Most Americans in todays times would welcome an Irish man that wanted to become an American even though it takes 7 years for that to happen here. Though 7 years is really not that long other counties it is 20 years. Yeah, the people that become An American citizen might not have been an American since birth but the moment that they get that citizenship they are no different then any other American.

    So is it just Americans that you would not welcome or is it more just outsiders?
    Monkey61 wrote: »
    Can I ask how this obsession started and what you are basing your impressions of Ireland on? I'd love to know.

    It started when I met my mom's mom's brother, Seamus Callaghan, though I am not sure if that was how he spelled it. Any why he gave me my first Irish tape and my first book about Ireland. What I am basing my impressions of Ireland on are: its history, two friends that I worked with that were from there, Irish websites (you have to try to pull the good from the junk though), and websites about farming and eco friendly living.
    Monkey61 wrote: »
    1. For every wonderful Irish person, there is a closed minded, ignorant, sub intelligent counterpart. For instance, I cannot visit my girlfriend's family or the town that she lives in because it is absolutely unacceptable for her to have a partner of the same gender. I used to live in a county other than Dublin where I would have abuse hurled at me in the pub by former classmates who had since heard that I was gay.

    You still have that here in America too.

    Monkey61 wrote: »
    2. Politics? hmm.... Charlie Haughey step right up. Have you seen what our present nation has evolved from? We live in a country where divorce was only recently legalised, abortion is still illegal (the only reason people don't burn down abortion clinics is because we don't have them) and Ireland is still only escaping from the stranglehold of the catholic church which still looms large over the lives of many of the less cosmopolitan areas of the country.

    Yeah, I understand that there will be some political issues that are not that great but I feel that those issues are far less...I do not know what word to use here important is not the right word at all...Just look at America right now! We are in a war "saving people" but the thing is they do not want us to save them but we are American so we know what it best. Look at all the high school shootings, look at all the crime, did you know that America has the most Rapes, muggings, and burglarizes? Did you know that America almost did not go to the Olympics because China has a communist government. Did you know that the American government is more in debt then most of Europe combined? Look at all the major American companies that are going bankrupt, Target, Delta, American Airlines, Sears, and even Starbucks is closing 600 stores so they do not go bankrupt.

    Monkey61 wrote: »
    3. Every ATM has a junkie attached to it. Every street corner has a Romanian gypsy with child. Winos and beggars galore.

    Oh so it is like America then!

    Monkey61 wrote: »
    look at the amazing volumes of music, literature etc that is churned out of the US. Look at the amazing spectacle of American sports...

    But is large amounts of books, music, and movies worth the bad that I just talked about above? I personally would give up the entertainment to not have a couple of the problems I talked about above.

    Monkey61 wrote: »
    ...the spirit of togetherness that you can choose to buy into.

    Togetherness? I have moved all over the place and not once did I have anyone that lives around me welcome me or intraduce themselves. You can walk around smiling and waving at people most people just nod their head and walk past...where do you get this togetherness from?

    Monkey61 wrote: »
    Changing your name to "Seamus" (I have never in my life met anyone called Seamus - possibly a few of the elderly men propping up the old man country pub down the road) is pretentious and down right weird.

    I think that you are right it really is pretentious and rude even. I just have never liked my name and so I been saving to get it legally changed here. I was just thinking that I could use my grandmas last name before she got married and find a nice first name that I like. I am a fan of old fashion names or rare names.

    Monkey61 wrote: »
    Also be careful not to confuse culture with history.

    Good call I was using the wrong word. It would be nice to live someplace with a long rich history.



    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Are you just throwing words in here thinking that we'll somehow understand how you're feeling. Who factors in the cost of beer when contemplating burning your passport?

    I factor in the cost of all my major expenses and since I spend 10 -15% of my pay on liquor and do not plan to stop then I need that plan for that cost.

    MagicMarker wrote: »
    As for farm work.... wtf!?

    Does the fact that I like working on a plant farm make me a bad person? Some people like Advertising, law, sell, and yeah some like working around plants.

    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Word of advice, don't base you views of Ireland on the movie Far and Away.

    Never heard of it. Is it am American made movie or Irish? Didn't The Chieftains have a song called Fare and away...lol.

    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Now he'll get a taste of what Ireland is all about.

    *sits back and observes*

    I do not get it...




    Anyway yeah it is just a pipe dream anyway since I can could not have a job I would love over there so it really is just a mote point. I just wanted to see what people thought about Americans that wanted to live over there.


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    #41
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,830 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Living over there: great

    Trying to change your identity and transform yourself into seamus the plastic paddy? Erm...

    by the way on that stroke the most down to earth Irish Kid I ever knew was named David English. go figure.
    Most Americans in todays times would welcome an Irish man that wanted to become an American even though it takes 7 years for that to happen here. Though 7 years is really not that long other counties it is 20 years. Yeah, the people that become An American citizen might not have been an American since birth but the moment that they get that citizenship they are no different then any other American.

    Thats because thats what America is and thats how America started. It was a british colony that told its fathering nation to **** off. Hence America became the place every angsty bastard and their starving children went to stick it to the man.

    so to speak. Which reminds me, stock up on spuds.

    If you want to start life over again in Ireland thats not the issue: you're more than welcome. The issue is why the hell would you want to do it just so you can forget who you are? You need to go watch Mad Men or something.


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    #42
    OPENROAD
    Registered Users Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    OP you can't get a good understanding of what it is like to live in a country from books,history,tapes, and the net. I could be wrong here but my worry is that you might have a view of Ireland as this nice quaint country, where everyone knows everyone else,the country is all green,dancing at the crossroads etc... my advice is to visit Ireland, not just the once but several times, see what the country is really like.


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    #43
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Overheal wrote: »
    You need to go watch Mad Men or something.

    That's really freaky - I just dropped into After Hours to read one thread before sticking on an episode of Mad Men.

    Get out of my freaking mind, man!


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    #44
    seahorse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭seahorse


    Grawns wrote: »
    Also what's all this about Irish immigrants getting treated worse then slaves. That's just crazy talk.

    The first Irish arriving in the US were considered, both privately and publicly (in the case of publicly, in the form of posters in the street) as actual animals. Our ancestors arriving in the US were denied work and lodging on account of their nationality and heritage.

    You must never have heard the term: 'White monkeys'. It seems you need to study your Irish history.


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    #45
    KBarry
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭KBarry


    SeamusCallaghan wrote: »
    There is the anti-american group showing there voice! Most Americans in todays times would welcome an Irish man that wanted to become an American even though it takes 7 years for that to happen here. Though 7 years is really not that long other counties it is 20 years. Yeah, the people that become An American citizen might not have been an American since birth but the moment that they get that citizenship they are no different then any other American

    OP I don't think Monkey61 meant that to sound so harsh. It's not anti-Americanism it's just a fact. You can never be Irish. Speaking as somebody who was part of the Irish diaspora but lives here now, I can honestly say I'll never really be Irish. Not that I don't feel welcome, and it actually feels more like home than England now. But, I didn't grow up here and haven't been through the same experiences as people who did.

    When I was growing up in England I had a not dissimilar green-tinted view of Ireland that you seem to have...everybody gets along, spending all the free time having the craic in the pub and having a good old sing song. But it's just not like that. It has all the same problems of modern life that are in the US and Britain. Most people are too busy earning money and looking out that some thieving scumbag doesn't steal it to have the craic.

    You should at least come over for a holiday to see if you might like living here. Also, be aware that would need a work permit unless one of your parents or grandparents was born here. And you don't need to give up your American citizenship (and why the heck you would want to have no idea).


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    #46
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    SeamusCallaghan wrote: »
    You are right I have not been to Ireland yet at all, but have been in love with Ireland for 20 years now.
    The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence? Ireland's grand, but how would you know? Perchance you should try before making a major life changing decision?


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    #47
    Semele
    Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Semele


    Sorry Op I think your starting to contradict yourself a bit here. You're accusing Monkey61 of being anti-American (in a post that lists a lot of American stuff to be proud of) and then you are ranting about your country's shortcomings. So change it. Get out there and make a difference.

    I know a lot of us, especially when we were younger, watch "Saved by the Bell" etc and imagined how cool it must be to be American - drive in movies, surfing and all that jazz - but there is a fine line between wanting to live in a country and wanting to assume an entirely new identity for ourselves.

    If I wanted to live in the USA, I would want to live there as myself, not as hot dog eating, flag waving Johnny (faux)American. I wouldn't have a clue, from any amount of reading, movie watching, what it's like to be an American. Even with living there, I would know what it's like to live there, not what it's like to BE an American.


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    #48
    hunnybunny
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭hunnybunny


    Also from a practical point of view as a non Eu national does he not require a visa to live and work here?

    Yes, this most certainly is true. It is VERY difficult to get a work visa into Ireland if you are non EU ( Romania and Bulgaria included even though the are EU). You d really want to have a trade or profession that we are in demand of, a company prepared to sponsor you (but it has to be an occupation that there is a DEMAND for) or have the funds to start your own business. In most cases you should be earning at least 30.000 euro.

    My best friends Romanian and she is not allowed to work here, despite having fantastic English and speaking three other languages. But thats just the way it is here.

    There are some holiday work visa valid for 4 months but these are only for Autrailia, New Zealand, Canada and Hong Kong. Doesn t say anything bout the US.

    There is a big list of jobs you cannot do (these jobs make up most of whats out there)

    Clerical and administrative staff
    General operatives and labourers
    Operator and production staff
    Retail sales staff, sales representatives and supervisory or specialist sales staff
    Drivers (excluding HGV)
    Nursery/crèche workers, child minders/nannies
    Hotel, tourism and catering staff except chefs
    The following craft workers and apprentice/trainee craft workers: bookbinders, bricklayers, cabinet makers, carpenters/joiners, carton makers, fitters - construction plant, electricians, instrumentation craftspeople, fitters, tilers - floor/wall, mechanics - heavy vehicles, instrumentation craftspersons, metal fabricators, mechanics - motor, originators, painters and decorators, plumbers, printers, engineers - refrigeration, sheet metal workers, tool makers, vehicle body repairers, machinists - wood, plasterers and welders

    Check out here for more details

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/migrant-workers/employment-permits/work_permits/?searchterm=work%20permit%20in%20Ireland

    You could get in as a student visa but again you d want to have alot of money to pay for your own private school fees as you are non EU.

    Ireland is a very hard country to get a work permit or residence in even marrying an Irish citizen doesn t get you in immediately. As you have to spend 2 years in another EU state before you may apply to become Irish. I know there have been many complaints about this policy, even some threatening to take Ireland to the European court of justice. (Im not sure of the update on this issue though)

    Sometimes you can get in if you are a refugee, but that I m sure doesn t apply to yourself.

    It appears that Ireland does go out of their way to make it very difiicult for non EU to set up residence here.


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    #49
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Jaysus, you better get over here quickly.

    We used to be the land of 100,000 welcomes, but it's down to about 37 now.


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    #50
    CHD
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,956 ✭✭✭CHD


    Drinking is frowned upon in Ireland


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    #51
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,830 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    hunnybunny wrote: »
    You could get in as a student visa but again you d want to have alot of money to pay for your own private school fees as you are non EU.

    Good luck faking a Student Visa too (Yes, I R Student, *stamp stamp* off to work). You need proof of Irish-Valid Health Insurance, A Bank Statement proving you have over 3,000 euro, and for returning students a college letter stating you hold an attendance record above 85%. And a proof of address in Ireland. And every student Visa requires a proof of tuition and enrollment. Oh, and you need to pay 100 euro for your fancy immigrant card. And any time spent under a Student Visa does not accrue to eligibility for future citizenship.

    To be honest, the Work Visa sounds like the easy way to go.


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    #52
    arse..biscuits
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭arse..biscuits


    I didn't bother reading all your replies, just to answer one of your questions.
    I've met many Americans learning Irish here, some are excellent, one was completely fluent, I didn't realise he wasn't irish untill he spoke English.


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    #53
    hunnybunny
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭hunnybunny


    Good luck faking a Student Visa too (Yes, I R Student, *stamp stamp* off to work). You need proof of Irish-Valid Health Insurance, A Bank Statement proving you have over 3,000 euro, and for returning students a college letter stating you hold an attendance record above 85%. And a proof of address in Ireland. And every student Visa requires a proof of tuition and enrollment. Oh, and you need to pay 100 euro for your fancy immigrant card. And any time spent under a Student Visa does not accrue to eligibility for future citizenship.

    To be honest, the Work Visa sounds like the easy way to go.

    A student visa would be good if you want to just stay for a certain amount of time. You can also work part time but you do have to leave (in principal) when it finishes.
    However a huge amount of Asians are in Dublin claiming to be studying English, IT etc etc, Yet are working nearly full time and many have outstayed their student visa. The government seems in no huge rush to deport them.

    For a work permit you need a very specialised job and the job must be waiting here for you (you can t just come and find one). Thats tough to get when you are abroad. Unless you ve got the money or the skills I d say forget applying to Ireland!


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    #54
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,830 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    hunnybunny wrote: »
    The government seems in no huge rush to deport them.

    Well they won't come after you blade runner style but if you leave the country, then try to come back, when they swipe your passport they will know almost immediately just how out of date your passport is, and you'll be added to a watchlist until you visit a garda station for renewal. happened to me once. If you try and enter again without sorting it with the gardai your ass is outta there. Also, if you get in police trouble: one swipe will show your in violation of your visa, and you are gone.


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