Personal oppiniane needed here...

SeamusCallaghan

Edit: Sorry to much to drink and my heads not working at 100% right now!

....Personal opinion... not...oppiniane

'To start I am Irish at heart but I am only American...I know, I know, I am sorry. Where to start, I really am sick of the "American attitude". Every since I was 6 and learn of the "Irish Rovers" I have been Irish at heart.
oppiniane
There is nothing I have learned so far that I do not like about Ireland. I would like to talk to some of you "real" Irish people and get your thoughts on a few questions I have.

1) You being Irish would you give and American that renounced his American citizenship in the hopes of one day living, working, and dieing in Ireland, a chance? Even though most Americans are not liked because of the "American ego"?

2) Would you think an American learning Irish is a good thing? Or would you see it as an insult?

Overheal

Speaking as an American recently emigrated from Ireland:

1) Dual Citizenship: Live there 5 years (barring student visas - which is what snaggled me) and you can apply for Dualies. No need to drop the USA nationality.

2) Why would they be offended

3) Yeah, America has issues, but why the drama? Personally I just lived out of country 8 years so I never had to suffer the Bush Administration - that worked for me.

I'm just curious, asking these kind-of questions online says to me you may not have actually visited Ireland at all yet. I mean sure, the story of St. Patrick's Battalion etc. is great and all but its hardly a valid reason to shed my nationality: frankly its part of my identity.

SeamusCallaghan

First off oops on the opening title's spelling ...lol.

Overheal wrote: »

Speaking as an American recently emigrated from Ireland:

1) Dual Citizenship: Live there 5 years (barring student visas - which is what snaggled me) and you can apply for Dualies. No need to drop the USA nationality.

Overheal wrote: »

Yeah I know that but I do not want want thing to do with America is all. 80% of Americans do not share in almost any part of my idealology and a large part of them tell my to "shut up or get out of America you commie!" Mostly just laugh and say "I'm trying if you help me I can get out faster!"

Overheal wrote: »

2) Why would they be offended

I have this "friend" that speaks like 104,486 languages and she said that "since even them imbreads can can speak there own lauguage they would thing that you are just some American proving to them that we are better then them."

Yeah, I was piss at this comment and I almost lost my job because of what I told her! I do not thing that I can type what I told her in this forum with out getting banned! I can tell you that that was the closes I ever came to full out hitting a woman since I was like four! As mad as I was it did riase the question...Since most of the great Irish people do not speak Irish on a daily bases would they thing that an American Speeking it was just showing off?

3) Yeah, America has issues, but why the drama? Personally I just lived out of country 8 years so I never had to suffer the Bush Administration - that worked for me.

I'm just curious, asking these kind-of questions online says to me you may not have actually visited Ireland at all yet. I mean sure, the story of St. Patrick's Battalion etc. is great and all but its hardly a valid reason to shed my nationality: frankly its part of my identity.

You are right I have not been to Ireland yet at all, but have been in love with Ireland for 20 years now. I have desided to renounce my US citizenship more as a point then anything even if I never become a citizen of some other country. I feel that Ireland has 100% of what I am looking for in a country! From politics, crime, environmental, personal, Ireland has what I want and need. The only thing thing that Ireland does not have that I wish they had was the whole world! Plus, I have not even talked about Gaelic!

Look I have no problem with those Americans that love every single thing about America but that is just not who I am. Just because I am American born does not mean that I can not be Irish at heart! Please do not feel that I am "dogging" America or Americans, I am just trying to see how Irish people thing about American born people in this day and age because face it we treated the Irish immagraints worse then slaves! At least they gave slaves a place to live and food to eat!

Because the American where like we were I only hope to be able to move to Ireland and get a job working on a farm for only a place to stay and food. If the Irish are more forgiving of the past then Americans tend to be then I really would love to someday call myself Irish!


Anyway, I am thinking about changing my name from my common English name (David Allen Ca...) to this common Irish name! I think it would help me fit in with the Irish population. Plu I just do not like the name "David"!

So, like most of the times when I have been drinking i have said to much.

hungryhippo

Might be a good idea to spend at least a weekend here before abandoning your citizenship. Seems like you've got the excessive drinking element of being Irish cracked anyway.

Darragh29

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

Edit: Sorry to much to drink and my heads not working at 100% right now!

....Personal opinion... not...oppiniane

'To start I am Irish at heart but I am only American...I know, I know, I am sorry. Where to start, I really am sick of the "American attitude". Every since I was 6 and learn of the "Irish Rovers" I have been Irish at heart.
oppiniane
There is nothing I have learned so far that I do not like about Ireland. I would like to talk to some of you "real" Irish people and get your thoughts on a few questions I have.

1) You being Irish would you give and American that renounced his American citizenship in the hopes of one day living, working, and dieing in Ireland, a chance? Even though most Americans are not liked because of the "American ego"?

2) Would you think an American learning Irish is a good thing? Or would you see it as an insult?

I hope this is the place to say this, but I think the problem with the Irish as it the Irish people and the US at the moment is more down to George Bush and the administration. I don't know an Irish person who would ask or expect an American or ideed any person of any nationality to renounce his or her citizenship, we over here tend to agree to disagree if we don't see it the same way and leave it at that. I can tell you for 200% certaintly that your man (the yank), Des Bishop is way more fluent in Irish than I was, am or ever will be! I'd like to think we don't get that hung up on citizenship over here, we're multicultural now! :cool::cool::cool:

How Strange

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

First off oops on the opening title's spelling ...lol.
You are right I have not been to Ireland yet at all, but have been in love with Ireland for 20 years now. I have desided to renounce my US citizenship more as a point then anything even if I never become a citizen of some other country. I feel that Ireland has 100% of what I am looking for in a country! From politics, crime, environmental, personal, Ireland has what I want and need. The only thing thing that Ireland does not have that I wish they had was the whole world! Plus, I have not even talked about Gaelic!

Look I have no problem with those Americans that love every single thing about America but that is just not who I am. Just because I am American born does not mean that I can not be Irish at heart! Please do not feel that I am "dogging" America or Americans, I am just trying to see how Irish people thing about American born people in this day and age because face it we treated the Irish immagraints worse then slaves! At least they gave slaves a place to live and food to eat!

Because the American where like we were I only hope to be able to move to Ireland and get a job working on a farm for only a place to stay and food. If the Irish are more forgiving of the past then Americans tend to be then I really would love to someday call myself Irish!


Anyway, I am thinking about changing my name from my common English name (David Allen Ca...) to this common Irish name! I think it would help me fit in with the Irish population. Plu I just do not like the name "David"!

So, like most of the times when I have been drinking i have said to much.

OP, I think you're confusing your identity crisis as an American with your idealised notion of being 'Irish'. The two are totally separate and different.

If you really want to become 'Irish' then live here for a few years and experience all the good, bad and ugly parts of Irish life and society.

I love France, I've got this dream about living there someday and running a nice b&b (who doesn't!) and I've got serious issues with Irish society and politics but I wouldn't consider renouncing my identity and becoming French.

I think you need to stop living in your head and idealising a country you've never been to and come here and live for a while.

Incidentally, you will probably never be considered Irish if you live here even if you have an Irish passport. You'll always be considered the American who has an Irish passport. But that's probably an argument for the humanities section.

Grawns

Very strange ( English not first language possibly). I have never heard anything so daft and I'm married to an American citizen. Why would he think he would be entitled to citizenship here anyway? He cannot just renounce his citizenship of America and wander the world. he'd never get over a border.

Also what's all this about Irish immigrants getting treated worse then slaves. That's just crazy talk.

JuliusCaesar

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

There is nothing I have learned so far that I do not like about Ireland.

1) You being Irish would you give and American that renounced his American citizenship in the hopes of one day living, working, and dieing in Ireland, a chance? Even though most Americans are not liked because of the "American ego"?

2) Would you think an American learning Irish is a good thing? Or would you see it as an insult?

Come and visit! there's a lot not to like about Ireland! Excessive drinking, thinking we're the best, the government, the health service, littering, etc etc. But there's a lot to like too - eh, can't think of anything straight up - o yeah the sea, the countryside, the fact that it's a small country.

There are a LOT of Americans living here. Mostly Demmocrats, small number of Republicans.

If you want to learn another language, you could learn Irish (we don't call it Gaelic - that's what's spoken in Scotlant); but French would probably be more useful in Europe.

There is a mythology about Ireland, like about any country. We're normal, and worry about our jobs, our relationships, money - same as you find anywhere. No leprachauns, no huge anti-british sentiment (especially since we buy their newspapers), no singing everywhere unless it's after closing time.

Chinafoot

OP how old are you? No offence but this all sounds very angsty and juvenile.

You don't have to like everything about your country and if you do come to Ireland you'll soon find that there's very few Irish people who love everything about this country.

I don't get this "Irish at heart" business. You've never even been here, how on earth can you be Irish at heart? To be honest, Ireland seems to be this idealised place of myth and celtic wonder to some Americans. It's not like that here. There are some rural parts of the country where you'll still get a good sing-a-long in the pub but those places are few and far between these days. What you've seen in films isn't necessarily what you'll find here.

As for learning the language. Go for it, but unless you're going to immerse yourself in it, and to do that you'll need to stay in a gaeltacht (irish speaking) area, you probably won't get very far. Irish isn't spoken by very many people here. It's unfortunate but such is life. It's also not exactly an easy language to learn.

As another poster said, stop living in your head. You have no experience of Ireland or being Irish. You could arrive here and realise it's not the wonderful place you've built up in your head where we're all super nice to each other, welcome everyone with open arms, have the craic 24/7 and enjoy our lush beautiful countryside. You'll soon see that Ireland, like any other country, has it's own problems.

seahorse

I think you need to shatter those illusions OP, and there's no quicker way of doing it than reading this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055351285

Pj!

Our weather is crap. Go somewhere warmer. You'll find an irish bar there anyway.

cowzerp

Ireland is great in many ways, there is always craic to be had in pubs, the country side is beautiful, most are very welcoming and proud to be irish, we have our national sports GAA and Hurling.

Then on the downside, ireland can be quite racist and along with the great craic in pubs comes a lot of fights etc in pubs. actually most of our socialising is done in the pub, most irish like the americans once there not too arrogant!!

come over and try it out, i think you'd love it..

July

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

2) Would you think an American learning Irish is a good thing? Or would you see it as an insult?

This American guy did it and was well respected for it - Des Bishop

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

Anyway, I am thinking about changing my name from my common English name (David Allen Ca...) to this common Irish name! I think it would help me fit in with the Irish population. Plu I just do not like the name "David"!

'David' in Irish is 'Daithi' (should be a fada on the last 'i'). It's a lovely name. Pronounced 'Dhah-hee'.

OP, I think you need to visit Ireland and definitely don't relinquish your US citizenship! Have you ever seen the film 'The Terminal'?!

P.S. I hope you're having a nice sleep!

MagicMarker

OP, i think you're quite delusional. Unless you've been here, then you know nothing of the country.

You're just one of those people that just love Irish people, but you're taking it to the next level.

At least come and stay here for a while before giving up your identity.

hunnybunny

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

Edit: Sorry to much to drink and my heads not working at 100% right now!

....Personal opinion... not...oppiniane

'To start I am Irish at heart but I am only American...I know, I know, I am sorry. Where to start, I really am sick of the "American attitude". Every since I was 6 and learn of the "Irish Rovers" I have been Irish at heart.
oppiniane
There is nothing I have learned so far that I do not like about Ireland. I would like to talk to some of you "real" Irish people and get your thoughts on a few questions I have.

1) You being Irish would you give and American that renounced his American citizenship in the hopes of one day living, working, and dieing in Ireland, a chance? Even though most Americans are not liked because of the "American ego"?

2) Would you think an American learning Irish is a good thing? Or would you see it as an insult?

Do you have Irish family? If not why Ireland? You are not the first American I ve met to long to be some other nationality at heart. I knew a pennsylvanian girl who longed to be French but she knew she could never be one of them. However she sold up in the states, got a visa to Ireland (it was just easier to go there with the job she had) and she hopes to somehow get to France and get work from there. It won t be easy but I had to admire her dedication

In answer to your question 1, I don t really believe anyone would want you to renounce your nationality. You were born there and you can t change that fact! I don t see why any body would want you to.

Question 2, Why not learn Irish? But understand that its not spoken everywhere. Some parts of Ireland yeah, but if you go into a Dublin shop and start speaking, you should expect some blank looks from Pakistani or Polish workers.

They once sent an Irish speaker round a variety of locations in Dublin. He was snapped at rudely and told to speak in English by more than one person.

Sure being realistic, Chinese and Polish is spoken more often than Irish :rolleyes:Maybe look into these 2 if you want to practise in Dublin. We have advertisements in Polish. Go into a bank and you ll a variety of leaflets in different language. I mean its nice we are more multicultural but its a shame we don t converse in our own language more often.

Because the American where like we were I only hope to be able to move to Ireland and get a job working on a farm for only a place to stay and food

I m sure you ll find plenty of jobs that don t involve farm work. It sounds like you are basing your romantic views of Ireland, on a nostalgic quaint American image of what we used to be. Place to stay and food, only? ha! We have strict minimum wage laws! Not to mention we are strict on letting non EU into our country. Its not simple coming here and working on a farm!

You are right I have not been to Ireland yet at all, but have been in love with Ireland for 20 years now. I have desided to renounce my US citizenship more as a point then anything even if I never become a citizen of some other country. I feel that Ireland has 100% of what I am looking for in a country! From politics, crime, environmental, personal, Ireland has what I want and need. The only thing thing that Ireland does not have that I wish they had was the whole world! Plus, I have not even talked about Gaelic!

How do you know you like Ireland if you have never been? It sounds to me like you are basing your views of Ireland on quaint romantic notions dreamt up by Americans who have Irish descent. The reality is a little different.

Anyway, I am thinking about changing my name from my common English name (David Allen Ca...) to this common Irish name! I think it would help me fit in with the Irish population. Plu I just do not like the name "David"!

Why would you do something like that? English names are more common than Irish names here. There were 3 Davids in my class in school. David is an everyday name in Ireland.
Even if you change your name, you open your mouth and we hear your accent so we know where you come from..

So, like most of the times when I have been drinking i have said to much.

Mmmm how many times have you mentoned drinking? Sounds like someone is trying to fit in!

SeamusCallaghan

Right, first off I know that Ireland like any other country has its down sides too. I really do not think that I am idealizing Ireland it really has some a lot of what I think a country should have.

1) culture
Here in America we have no culture because we are such a young country with so many cultures living so close. We could have had some culture from the Native Americans if we had not killed most of them then forced the few that where left to live where we wanted them to live.

2) government
Here in America we have a lot of "freedoms" but at what cost? We have the highest crime rate of and country, we have one the the worst education systems, the most people in hail, the economy is falling fast and hard. To top all that off we are always trying to force our way of thinking and government onto other countries and if you do not see it our way will will attack you or stop trading with you or both.

3) Entertainment
Here in America everything in the Entertainment Industry...the name just said it for me, Industry, they only think about making money and telling the American people what they should like. Entertainment is not decided by the "stars" but buy the people that sit in the office counting numbers. Now this one I could be wrong about but to me it just sames like most Irish bands play for the love of it not for the money and fame.

4) Environment
I love the countryside in the south. The weather in Ireland suits me just fine, yeah I know that I could find both those over here in America. One thing that is harder to find over here in America is the Organic farms. The percentage of organic farms in Ireland is much higher then over here in America. Working around plants is what I like to do and since I want to work on an organic farm then Ireland would be a better place to do that. Though the chances of them letting anyone in to the country to be a farm hand are zero to none.

5) People
I know that it might not be right but I am judging the Irish people by the only two people I have known that where from Ireland. Both of the Irish people I knew shared my ideas about the problem with most (not all) American. Both Irish lads where great to be around.

6) Language
Yes, I know that most of Ireland does not speak Irish any more but I still it really is a nice sounding language.

Now:
I am not daft enough to just get off the airplane go straight to the US embassy and renounce my citizenship. I was talking long term people. Plus, I am not sure how it works other places but in America if you renounce your citizenship if you get deported you still get sent back to America. Once back to America and prove you where an American citizen you are issued a "work visa".

The movie The Terminal was nothing like this, in that movie the American government did not like the government of that country so they acted like it did not exist thus making Tom Hanks from a country that "did not exist".

I know that I really do need to go over there to see but since I do can not work over there I would need thousands of dollars. I would need money for 3 months of housing, beer, food, and travel. Though since I would like the really small cities better I think that that would be cheaper. Plus I am scared that once I get there and my 90 days are up I would not want to leave. Would it be worse to go there for a 3 month tease only to have to come back "home" then never to have gone...

Monkey61

Op I'm sorry but this is so absolutely ridiculous I don't even know where to start.

For a start, no matter how much you try, you will never be Irish...ever. You will never know what it feels like to be Irish or what it is to be Irish...ever. You are not Irish. I don't want to be harsh but there is absolutely nothing more annoying and likely to invoke scorn than an American claiming some sort of internal mystical kinship with Ireland - even more if it is a country that they have never been to.

Can I ask how this obsession started and what you are basing your impressions of Ireland on? I'd love to know.

I love my country, would probably die for it (in certain circumstances) and know that however much traveling I do I will always return here - but there are many things that I absolutely hate.

1. For every wonderful Irish person, there is a closed minded, ignorant, sub intelligent counterpart. For instance, I cannot visit my girlfriend's family or the town that she lives in because it is absolutely unacceptable for her to have a partner of the same gender. I used to live in a county other than Dublin where I would have abuse hurled at me in the pub by former classmates who had since heard that I was gay.

2. Politics? hmm.... Charlie Haughey step right up. Have you seen what our present nation has evolved from? We live in a country where divorce was only recently legalised, abortion is still illegal (the only reason people don't burn down abortion clinics is because we don't have them) and Ireland is still only escaping from the stranglehold of the catholic church which still looms large over the lives of many of the less cosmopolitan areas of the country.

3. Every ATM has a junkie attached to it. Every street corner has a Romanian gypsy with child. Winos and beggars galore.

To be honest as much as everyone loves to go George Bush bashing - and yes I'm sure the man is as much of an imbecile as he is made out to be..... America has as many plus points as Ireland does. I cannot obviously speak for all Irish people, but personally I have no problem with America - look at the amazing volumes of music, literature etc that is churned out of the US. Look at the amazing spectacle of American sports and the spirit of togetherness that you can choose to buy into.

There is obviously something deeply unhappy and unsatisfying about your life that you think Ireland will fix. It won't. You will still be the same person you are now. Changing your name to "Seamus" (I have never in my life met anyone called Seamus - possibly a few of the elderly men propping up the old man country pub down the road) is pretentious and down right weird. Fair enough if you want to move - but move as yourself - not as a falsified stereotyped image based on imagined myths that by their very nature can have no real substance.

Also be careful not to confuse culture with history. You may not have history but you have one hell of a culture. As for the entertainment industry - you have money and opportunity. Ireland barely has a film industry anymore because of the producers greed and the cronyism (both parents and numerous relations in this industry since the 70s). US produces bloody amazing films, has bloody amazing bands etc. You have culture galore that is so specific to America and nowhere else. It's in your mindset, everything. You have beautiful cities and countryside too.

MagicMarker

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

I know that I really do need to go over there to see but since I do can not work over there I would need thousands of dollars. I would need money for 3 months of housing, beer, food, and travel.

Are you just throwing words in here thinking that we'll somehow understand how you're feeling. Who factors in the cost of beer when contemplating burning your passport?

As for farm work.... wtf!?

Word of advice, don't base you views of Ireland on the movie Far and Away.

Loopy

Are you for real OP...

How someone could contemplate living in a country and wanting citizenship having not even visited once is beyond me:rolleyes:

Get your arse over here for a holiday and see how you feel then..

Nevyn

From PI with love.

MagicMarker

Thaedydal wrote: »

From PI with love.

Now he'll get a taste of what Ireland is all about.

*sits back and observes*

Slidey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSSLFOANBqQ

connundrum

Bleedin fordiners. :rolleyes:

AlmightyCushion

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

1) You being Irish would you give and American that renounced his American citizenship in the hopes of one day living, working, and dieing in Ireland, a chance? Even though most Americans are not liked because of the "American ego"?

I don't really care where someone is from. If they're sound, they're sound. Also you don't need to revoke your citizenship to be accepted here.

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

2) Would you think an American learning Irish is a good thing? Or would you see it as an insult?

I wouldn't take it as an insult and I don't see how anyone could especially seeing as most people here have to do a foreign language for their leaving cert.

You seem to care far too much about what people think. If you want to learn irish then learn irish, who cares what some one on the other end of a computer thinks.

PrivateEye

I don't like the attitudes many Europeans hold towards ordinary Americans these days. British and French people calling others war criminals is pretty ironic for one. There's a clear democratic deficit in American politics, and the war in Iraq is undoubtably wrong- but the same can be said of so many western governments before them. Anti-Americanism is an absolute joke. We don't claim direct responsibility when Bertie or Charlie or anyone else get caught with the hand in the till. Opinion polls in the states speak for themselves, they are no dumber than us.

"But like George Bush maaaaaaan" :rolleyes: America is actually a very liberal country, if you want to call them braindead or talk about the 'bible belt' please banish Youth Defence from Ireland first and introduce gay marrige. Pot, Kettle and all that.

Even though most Americans are not liked because of the "American ego"?

America as a country is highly regarded in Ireland. Most Irish families, especially working class families, would have relatives who emigrated to the U.S. I remember seeing a County Down GAA sticker on the back of a fire engine in NYC last year. Even now I'd know plenty of people with family in the U.S

Thousands of Irish people go off to New York every year and do wonders for the American economy, and bring the odd nice shirt back (and some dodgey ones)
...and we import their beer, tv, culture, food and god knows what else.


It also pisses me off the way you hear some people talk about 'them daft yanks that pretend they're irish'. Wow, how dare anybody want to relate to this little island. What a disgrace . **** them and their granddad I suppose.

'No man shall have the right to fix the boundary to the march of a Nation'
-Parnell.

OPENROAD

looptheloop wrote: »

Are you for real OP...

How someone could contemplate living in a country and wanting citizenship having not even visited once is beyond me:rolleyes:

.

+1

DenMan

Hello Seamus

First thing I would like to say is that you are an American, you should be very proud of that. Such a diverse nation with so many cultures and ideals. In principal it is the perfect utopia. Every country has it's flaws and Ireland is no different, just like the United States. I agree with a lot of the other posters here saying that you should not hastily rush into any rash decisions. Can you use your strengths to your advantage?, educational background, job prospects in you own country before you hastily make a decision to come to a nation which is currently in it's initial stages of a slow downturn. Our economy has really benefitted in the last 10-15 years and now going through a change in it's fortune. Not wanting to put you off, just giving you some information on how we currently stand. You should definitely come and visit Ireland to give you an idea of Ireland. If you feel you need to take your thread to Personal Issues or Work and Jobs then please by all means feel free to explore your options. I know you will get pleanty of assistance and guidance. I hope it works out for you Seamus.

Den

OK-Cancel-Apply

OP seems to have Elizebeth Fritzel's grasp of the outside world. Reminds me of a youtuber I saw once - a middle aged woman obsessed with Ireland...always talking about fairies etc...

DenMan

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

OP seems to have Elizebeth Fritzel's grasp of the outside world. Reminds me of a youtuber I saw once - a middle aged woman obsessed with Ireland...always talking about fairies etc...

OP would like a little bit of encouragement and advice not patrinising comments.

Slidey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNBk4MP1PHw

This the one?

OPENROAD

DenMan wrote: »

OP would like a little bit of encouragement and advice not patrinising comments.

I think the op should visit Ireland as I think his views of what he thinks Ireland is like is somewhat different to the reality.

DenMan

OPENROAD wrote: »

I think the op should visit Ireland as I think his views of what he thinks Ireland is like is somewhat different to the reality.

Hi OPENROAD

You are right, he has been advised to do so. Having him come over permanently before exploring his options fully would be wrong and ill-conceived.Setting up the thread and looking for genuine advice is what he wants and I hope he gets it.

OPENROAD

DenMan wrote: »

Hi OPENROAD

You are right, he has been advised to do so. Having him come over permanently before exploring his options fully would be wrong and ill-conceived.Setting up the thread and looking for genuine advice is what he wants and I hope he gets it.

Hi

Yes, very true,the best think the op can do is to visit the country a number of times and to try and get a feel of the place to see if it actually matches his expectations and if it matches what he thinks the country is actually like.

Also from a practical point of view as a non Eu national does he not require a visa to live and work here?

Overheal

Thaedydal wrote: »

From PI with love.

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

Right, first off I know that Ireland like any other country has its down sides too. I really do not think that I am idealizing Ireland it really has some a lot of what I think a country should have.

1) culture
Here in America we have no culture because we are such a young country with so many cultures living so close. We could have had some culture from the Native Americans if we had not killed most of them then forced the few that where left to live where we wanted them to live.

Shotguns and Nascar. Its stupid, but hey! Culture! Look! Nascar!

Seriously there is culture you just need to know where to look; you won't find it at Walmart or Circuit City. Visit the good cities, not the suburbs. Most cities in the USA are a dime a dozen sure, but plenty have a very rich life and culture: Chicago, Charleston, Seattle, San Francisco, New York, to name a few. Down Florida way I adore St. Augustine. Colonial Towns are the bees knees. And who doesn't sometimes wonder if they can hack it castrating bulls and living on a ranch out in Monatana? Mmm.

2) government
Here in America we have a lot of "freedoms" but at what cost? We have the highest crime rate of and country, we have one the the worst education systems, the most people in hail, the economy is falling fast and hard. To top all that off we are always trying to force our way of thinking and government onto other countries and if you do not see it our way will will attack you or stop trading with you or both.

So instead of becoming a politician, an active member of society, or something to that nature, you'd rather turn tail and leave? Arnie didn't leave! Arnie came! He came and he worked his ass off and he saw it was good, but not quite good enough, so he ran for office and now he has his say in shaping the future of California and from what I hear he's been doing a bang-up job. A Republican that supports Gay Marriage? Whoda thunk it.

3) Entertainment
Here in America everything in the Entertainment Industry...the name just said it for me, Industry, they only think about making money and telling the American people what they should like. Entertainment is not decided by the "stars" but buy the people that sit in the office counting numbers. Now this one I could be wrong about but to me it just sames like most Irish bands play for the love of it not for the money and fame.

I'm sorry, what Irish brands? What the hell do you think Ireland was trying to do when they genetically engineered the test-tube babies that eventually became known as Westlife? And Guiness incidentally, is just good. But they wouldnt do it if they didnt turn a hefty profit.

4) Environment
I love the countryside in the south. The weather in Ireland suits me just fine, yeah I know that I could find both those over here in America. One thing that is harder to find over here in America is the Organic farms. The percentage of organic farms in Ireland is much higher then over here in America. Working around plants is what I like to do and since I want to work on an organic farm then Ireland would be a better place to do that. Though the chances of them letting anyone in to the country to be a farm hand are zero to none.

If you want to be an Organic Farmer, go to Pennsylvania and become Amish.

How the **** would you know anything about the weather in Ireland without ever having spent 15 minutes there? The mind boggles. Its ****ing cold and its ****ing wet, and if its not ****ing cold or ****ing wet, its summer. but for 75% of the year, its miserable.

5) People
I know that it might not be right but I am judging the Irish people by the only two people I have known that where from Ireland. Both of the Irish people I knew shared my ideas about the problem with most (not all) American. Both Irish lads where great to be around.

2 Irish people and I bet not one of them was a typical scumbag, lovable but delusional alcoholic or an overbearing irish mother.

6) Language
Yes, I know that most of Ireland does not speak Irish any more but I still it really is a nice sounding language.

And you'll barely find anyone to hold a conversation of it here. Its an incredibly tiny demographic.

Now:
I am not daft enough to just get off the airplane go straight to the US embassy and renounce my citizenship. I was talking long term people. Plus, I am not sure how it works other places but in America if you renounce your citizenship if you get deported you still get sent back to America. Once back to America and prove you where an American citizen you are issued a "work visa".

The movie The Terminal was nothing like this, in that movie the American government did not like the government of that country so they acted like it did not exist thus making Tom Hanks from a country that "did not exist".

I know that I really do need to go over there to see but since I do can not work over there I would need thousands of dollars. I would need money for 3 months of housing, beer, food, and travel. Though since I would like the really small cities better I think that that would be cheaper. Plus I am scared that once I get there and my 90 days are up I would not want to leave. Would it be worse to go there for a 3 month tease only to have to come back "home" then never to have gone...

So you want to move over there with no money, no job, no place to live and no ****ing clue?!

I know money is getting tight in the states, but honestly, moving countries is not the solution. You think its any cheaper over there? Its not. Someone tell me whats the milk up to over there? its $4.25 at Publix right now for 1 gallon (close to 4 litres) and that means milks like what, $10 per gallon in Eire right now? More? Someone help me with that one.

VAT (Value Added Tax - Its exactly like Sales Tax but its included into the shelf price) is 21%. a Pack of cigarettes is about $12. A Beer costs about $8. If you're trying to escape America's "failing economy" Ireland is a really stupid move (no offence lads)

Its a pipe dream OP. A really, really narrow pipe dream. If you want the simple farm life go Amish. Or hell, go somewhere in the states. Im sure plenty of Farmers will hire. Go find yourself a nice hidey hole in the middle of the country where you dont have to worry about politics, and stop watching FOX - its woeful.

If you're serious about this, go to Ireland on a 2 week vacation or something. If that sounds too expensive, then you are by no means ready for Ireland. Its a lovely place to visit but you get your fill closing in on 10 years :pac: Im heading back to the US of A and getting myself a gas guzzling SUV an inadequately sized pint of import guiness and a Hot Dog that doesnt come in a can.

edit: hey im the plastic paddy around here, I have the myspace page to prove it!
http://www.myspace.com/aplasticpaddy <--- yes, its horrendus. Its meant to be

Ruu_Old

Get educated as much as you can before even thinking of moving to Ireland. Lots of reading here.

Nymph

MagicMarker wrote: »

OP, i think you're quite delusional. Unless you've been here, then you know nothing of the country.

I have to agree with this completely. There's a lot more I'd like to say but MagicMarkers first sentence expresses my main sentiment.

OPENROAD

Cmol wrote: »

Weathers sh1te isnt it

I like the rain

shenanigans1982

I have not read through all this and maybe its been said already but I don't get Americans obsession with Ireland. I have had this conversation with numerous Americans who all try and lay claim to being Irish....you were born in America therefore you are American. You live in what is quite possibly the best (and by this I mean laziest) country in the world....is the desire to have some kind of identity/history so bad that you would want to become a citizen of somewhere you have never been?

Overheal

most yanks i hear dream of Emerald Isle talk about the view. Its nice dont get me wrong, but it can be easilly trumped by the likes of Yellowstone or Niagra Falls or the Rockies or the Everglades.

SeamusCallaghan

Monkey61 wrote: »

For a start, no matter how much you try, you will never be Irish...ever. You will never know what it feels like to be Irish or what it is to be Irish...ever. You are not Irish. I don't want to be harsh but there is absolutely nothing more annoying and likely to invoke scorn than an American claiming some sort of internal mystical kinship with Ireland - even more if it is a country that they have never been to.

There is the anti-american group showing there voice! Most Americans in todays times would welcome an Irish man that wanted to become an American even though it takes 7 years for that to happen here. Though 7 years is really not that long other counties it is 20 years. Yeah, the people that become An American citizen might not have been an American since birth but the moment that they get that citizenship they are no different then any other American.

So is it just Americans that you would not welcome or is it more just outsiders?

Monkey61 wrote: »

Can I ask how this obsession started and what you are basing your impressions of Ireland on? I'd love to know.

It started when I met my mom's mom's brother, Seamus Callaghan, though I am not sure if that was how he spelled it. Any why he gave me my first Irish tape and my first book about Ireland. What I am basing my impressions of Ireland on are: its history, two friends that I worked with that were from there, Irish websites (you have to try to pull the good from the junk though), and websites about farming and eco friendly living.

Monkey61 wrote: »

1. For every wonderful Irish person, there is a closed minded, ignorant, sub intelligent counterpart. For instance, I cannot visit my girlfriend's family or the town that she lives in because it is absolutely unacceptable for her to have a partner of the same gender. I used to live in a county other than Dublin where I would have abuse hurled at me in the pub by former classmates who had since heard that I was gay.

You still have that here in America too.

Monkey61 wrote: »

2. Politics? hmm.... Charlie Haughey step right up. Have you seen what our present nation has evolved from? We live in a country where divorce was only recently legalised, abortion is still illegal (the only reason people don't burn down abortion clinics is because we don't have them) and Ireland is still only escaping from the stranglehold of the catholic church which still looms large over the lives of many of the less cosmopolitan areas of the country.

Yeah, I understand that there will be some political issues that are not that great but I feel that those issues are far less...I do not know what word to use here important is not the right word at all...Just look at America right now! We are in a war "saving people" but the thing is they do not want us to save them but we are American so we know what it best. Look at all the high school shootings, look at all the crime, did you know that America has the most Rapes, muggings, and burglarizes? Did you know that America almost did not go to the Olympics because China has a communist government. Did you know that the American government is more in debt then most of Europe combined? Look at all the major American companies that are going bankrupt, Target, Delta, American Airlines, Sears, and even Starbucks is closing 600 stores so they do not go bankrupt.

Monkey61 wrote: »

3. Every ATM has a junkie attached to it. Every street corner has a Romanian gypsy with child. Winos and beggars galore.

Oh so it is like America then!

Monkey61 wrote: »

look at the amazing volumes of music, literature etc that is churned out of the US. Look at the amazing spectacle of American sports...

But is large amounts of books, music, and movies worth the bad that I just talked about above? I personally would give up the entertainment to not have a couple of the problems I talked about above.

Monkey61 wrote: »

...the spirit of togetherness that you can choose to buy into.

Togetherness? I have moved all over the place and not once did I have anyone that lives around me welcome me or intraduce themselves. You can walk around smiling and waving at people most people just nod their head and walk past...where do you get this togetherness from?

Monkey61 wrote: »

Changing your name to "Seamus" (I have never in my life met anyone called Seamus - possibly a few of the elderly men propping up the old man country pub down the road) is pretentious and down right weird.

I think that you are right it really is pretentious and rude even. I just have never liked my name and so I been saving to get it legally changed here. I was just thinking that I could use my grandmas last name before she got married and find a nice first name that I like. I am a fan of old fashion names or rare names.

Monkey61 wrote: »

Also be careful not to confuse culture with history.

Good call I was using the wrong word. It would be nice to live someplace with a long rich history.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Are you just throwing words in here thinking that we'll somehow understand how you're feeling. Who factors in the cost of beer when contemplating burning your passport?

I factor in the cost of all my major expenses and since I spend 10 -15% of my pay on liquor and do not plan to stop then I need that plan for that cost.

MagicMarker wrote: »

As for farm work.... wtf!?

Does the fact that I like working on a plant farm make me a bad person? Some people like Advertising, law, sell, and yeah some like working around plants.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Word of advice, don't base you views of Ireland on the movie Far and Away.

Never heard of it. Is it am American made movie or Irish? Didn't The Chieftains have a song called Fare and away...lol.

MagicMarker wrote: »

Now he'll get a taste of what Ireland is all about.

*sits back and observes*

I do not get it...




Anyway yeah it is just a pipe dream anyway since I can could not have a job I would love over there so it really is just a mote point. I just wanted to see what people thought about Americans that wanted to live over there.

Overheal

Living over there: great

Trying to change your identity and transform yourself into seamus the plastic paddy? Erm...

by the way on that stroke the most down to earth Irish Kid I ever knew was named David English. go figure.

Most Americans in todays times would welcome an Irish man that wanted to become an American even though it takes 7 years for that to happen here. Though 7 years is really not that long other counties it is 20 years. Yeah, the people that become An American citizen might not have been an American since birth but the moment that they get that citizenship they are no different then any other American.

Thats because thats what America is and thats how America started. It was a british colony that told its fathering nation to **** off. Hence America became the place every angsty bastard and their starving children went to stick it to the man.

so to speak. Which reminds me, stock up on spuds.

If you want to start life over again in Ireland thats not the issue: you're more than welcome. The issue is why the hell would you want to do it just so you can forget who you are? You need to go watch Mad Men or something.

OPENROAD

OP you can't get a good understanding of what it is like to live in a country from books,history,tapes, and the net. I could be wrong here but my worry is that you might have a view of Ireland as this nice quaint country, where everyone knows everyone else,the country is all green,dancing at the crossroads etc... my advice is to visit Ireland, not just the once but several times, see what the country is really like.

pickarooney

Overheal wrote: »

You need to go watch Mad Men or something.

That's really freaky - I just dropped into After Hours to read one thread before sticking on an episode of Mad Men.

Get out of my freaking mind, man!

seahorse

Grawns wrote: »

Also what's all this about Irish immigrants getting treated worse then slaves. That's just crazy talk.

The first Irish arriving in the US were considered, both privately and publicly (in the case of publicly, in the form of posters in the street) as actual animals. Our ancestors arriving in the US were denied work and lodging on account of their nationality and heritage.

You must never have heard the term: 'White monkeys'. It seems you need to study your Irish history.

KBarry

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

There is the anti-american group showing there voice! Most Americans in todays times would welcome an Irish man that wanted to become an American even though it takes 7 years for that to happen here. Though 7 years is really not that long other counties it is 20 years. Yeah, the people that become An American citizen might not have been an American since birth but the moment that they get that citizenship they are no different then any other American

OP I don't think Monkey61 meant that to sound so harsh. It's not anti-Americanism it's just a fact. You can never be Irish. Speaking as somebody who was part of the Irish diaspora but lives here now, I can honestly say I'll never really be Irish. Not that I don't feel welcome, and it actually feels more like home than England now. But, I didn't grow up here and haven't been through the same experiences as people who did.

When I was growing up in England I had a not dissimilar green-tinted view of Ireland that you seem to have...everybody gets along, spending all the free time having the craic in the pub and having a good old sing song. But it's just not like that. It has all the same problems of modern life that are in the US and Britain. Most people are too busy earning money and looking out that some thieving scumbag doesn't steal it to have the craic.

You should at least come over for a holiday to see if you might like living here. Also, be aware that would need a work permit unless one of your parents or grandparents was born here. And you don't need to give up your American citizenship (and why the heck you would want to have no idea).

Black Swan

SeamusCallaghan wrote: »

You are right I have not been to Ireland yet at all, but have been in love with Ireland for 20 years now.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence? Ireland's grand, but how would you know? Perchance you should try before making a major life changing decision?

Semele

Sorry Op I think your starting to contradict yourself a bit here. You're accusing Monkey61 of being anti-American (in a post that lists a lot of American stuff to be proud of) and then you are ranting about your country's shortcomings. So change it. Get out there and make a difference.

I know a lot of us, especially when we were younger, watch "Saved by the Bell" etc and imagined how cool it must be to be American - drive in movies, surfing and all that jazz - but there is a fine line between wanting to live in a country and wanting to assume an entirely new identity for ourselves.

If I wanted to live in the USA, I would want to live there as myself, not as hot dog eating, flag waving Johnny (faux)American. I wouldn't have a clue, from any amount of reading, movie watching, what it's like to be an American. Even with living there, I would know what it's like to live there, not what it's like to BE an American.

hunnybunny

Also from a practical point of view as a non Eu national does he not require a visa to live and work here?

Yes, this most certainly is true. It is VERY difficult to get a work visa into Ireland if you are non EU ( Romania and Bulgaria included even though the are EU). You d really want to have a trade or profession that we are in demand of, a company prepared to sponsor you (but it has to be an occupation that there is a DEMAND for) or have the funds to start your own business. In most cases you should be earning at least 30.000 euro.

My best friends Romanian and she is not allowed to work here, despite having fantastic English and speaking three other languages. But thats just the way it is here.

There are some holiday work visa valid for 4 months but these are only for Autrailia, New Zealand, Canada and Hong Kong. Doesn t say anything bout the US.

There is a big list of jobs you cannot do (these jobs make up most of whats out there)

Clerical and administrative staff
General operatives and labourers
Operator and production staff
Retail sales staff, sales representatives and supervisory or specialist sales staff
Drivers (excluding HGV)
Nursery/crèche workers, child minders/nannies
Hotel, tourism and catering staff except chefs
The following craft workers and apprentice/trainee craft workers: bookbinders, bricklayers, cabinet makers, carpenters/joiners, carton makers, fitters - construction plant, electricians, instrumentation craftspeople, fitters, tilers - floor/wall, mechanics - heavy vehicles, instrumentation craftspersons, metal fabricators, mechanics - motor, originators, painters and decorators, plumbers, printers, engineers - refrigeration, sheet metal workers, tool makers, vehicle body repairers, machinists - wood, plasterers and welders

Check out here for more details

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/migrant-workers/employment-permits/work_permits/?searchterm=work%20permit%20in%20Ireland

You could get in as a student visa but again you d want to have alot of money to pay for your own private school fees as you are non EU.

Ireland is a very hard country to get a work permit or residence in even marrying an Irish citizen doesn t get you in immediately. As you have to spend 2 years in another EU state before you may apply to become Irish. I know there have been many complaints about this policy, even some threatening to take Ireland to the European court of justice. (Im not sure of the update on this issue though)

Sometimes you can get in if you are a refugee, but that I m sure doesn t apply to yourself.

It appears that Ireland does go out of their way to make it very difiicult for non EU to set up residence here.

Terry

Jaysus, you better get over here quickly.

We used to be the land of 100,000 welcomes, but it's down to about 37 now.

CHD

Drinking is frowned upon in Ireland

Overheal

hunnybunny wrote: »

You could get in as a student visa but again you d want to have alot of money to pay for your own private school fees as you are non EU.

Good luck faking a Student Visa too (Yes, I R Student, *stamp stamp* off to work). You need proof of Irish-Valid Health Insurance, A Bank Statement proving you have over 3,000 euro, and for returning students a college letter stating you hold an attendance record above 85%. And a proof of address in Ireland. And every student Visa requires a proof of tuition and enrollment. Oh, and you need to pay 100 euro for your fancy immigrant card. And any time spent under a Student Visa does not accrue to eligibility for future citizenship.

To be honest, the Work Visa sounds like the easy way to go.