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Nurses

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    #32
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    The only people I've ever heard go on a rant about nurses are doctors. In fact any time it's come up, the "I'm Mammy" attitude is invariably the problem.

    Personally I have a lot of time for nurses, but then I don't work with them. I can kinda see where the animosity comes from in terms of their colleagues, at least. The profession is inherently maternal, and possibly that just grinds with patients and other staff.


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    #33
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    The profession is inherently maternal, and possibly that just grinds with patients and other staff.

    What does that actually mean?


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    #34
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    anncoates wrote: »
    What does that actually mean?
    Simply that nursing is a 'caring' profession, with an emphasis on looking after a person's elementary, physical needs

    Even the word nurse comes from an old French word for foster mother, or someone who suckles other people's children. They may not suckle anymore, but they are still a maternal profession. That's nothing to downplay or be dismissive of, although neither is it something you might necessarily want to work alongside.


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    #35
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,390 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    It is a very maternal profession ( not all nurses ) my daughter is like that and my nephew who wants to be a nurse is like that even though he is a rugby playing 18 year old, some people find looking after other people very rewarding I always think my nephew would make a great mental health nurse he has a great way with everyone and is comfortable talking to anyone be they 9 or 90.


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    #36
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    although neither is it something you might necessarily want to work alongside.

    This is more what I meant. Why?

    Do you mean because it's a professional./educational judgement because it's a palliative role rather than a medical one?

    Not having a go, by the way. Just wondering what you mean.


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    #37
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    anncoates wrote: »
    This is more what I meant. Why?

    Do you mean because it's a professional./educational judgement because it's a palliative role rather than a medical one?

    Not having a go, by the way. Just wondering what you mean.

    I guess for the same reason I wouldn't want to work with my mother.

    In a stressful work environment, motherliness can get in the way of the job at hand. I draw the analogy of the courtroom. Imagine a lawyer prosecuting a serious criminal, but the lawyer's mother is beside him... tutting... interrupting with encouragement, and turning to the accused saying "say sorry to the nice judge, ye pup".

    Although mothers and prosecutors share a common role as social guardians, it doesn't follow that their roles are compatible.

    This is where the analogy to doctors and nurses comes in. Both camps want positive health outcomes, yet they actually do completely different jobs. We shouldn't try to make nurses into semi-doctors, but we also shouldn't be surprised when their work attitudes clash with those who are (hospital) doctors. I would put GPs in the nurse camp as well btw, this isn't a dismissal of someone's professional title.


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    #38
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    I guess for the same reason I wouldn't want to work with my mother.

    In a stressful work environment, motherliness can get in the way of the job at hand. I draw the analogy of the courtroom. Imagine a lawyer prosecuting a serious criminal, but the lawyer's mother is beside him... tutting... interrupting with encouragement, and turning to the accused saying "say sorry to the nice judge, ye pup".

    Although mothers and prosecutors share a common role as social guardians, it doesn't follow that their roles are compatible.

    This is where the analogy to doctors and nurses comes in. Both camps want positive health outcomes, yet they actually do completely different jobs. We shouldn't try to make nurses into semi-doctors, but we also shouldn't be surprised when their work attitudes clash with those who are (hospital) doctors. I would put GPs in the nurse camp as well btw, this isn't a dismissal of someone's professional title.

    I agreed with the your original point that nursing is a palliative/caring profession that I guess could be labelled as maternal in the idealized sense of same but the above seems more confused and impressionistic to me.

    Maybe it's not your intention, but It's like you're implying that a nurse can't be 100% detached or professional because of being "maternal" which seems to suggest the care being on the level of pinching a cheek, baking a scone or knitting a cardigan and somehow hindering "serious" (I assume "paternal") care

    I would have thought that palliative/nursing care is an essential part of hospital care and both medical/palliative care as being complimentary parts of a holistic hospital care process.


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    #39
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    anncoates wrote: »
    Maybe it's not your intention, but It's like you're implying that a nurse can't be 100% detached or professional because of being "maternal" which seems to suggest the care being on the level of pinching a cheek, baking a scone or knitting a cardigan and somehow hindering "serious" (I assume "paternal") care
    No, nursing it's far more important than those things. But as well as the paramedical role nurses do very well, it does involve caring for, bathing, comforting, and advising. No, I don't think nurses are 100% detached professionals. I think their job is a lot more difficult from the doctor or radiographer or pharmacist who sees terrible pain, but (maybe) can better detach themselves at the end of a shift.

    Maternal is only an unfortunate word in the sense that people presume there must be a 'paternal' corollary. I do not associate paternalism with medics any more than with engineers or bus drivers, so I would have to reject that. They are just professionals who do a relatively detached job.
    I would have thought that palliative/nursing care is an essential part of hospital care and both medical/palliative care as being complimentary parts of a holistic hospital care process.
    The hospital care overall might be holistic, but it does not follow that all of the professionals are aligned in their objectives. Holistic implies convergence of outcomes, meaning care comes from different sources.

    We need to think of nurses and doctors like butchers and bakers. They both give you your shopping, but they deal in different wares. We reap different benefits from the nursing profession and the medical profession, attempting to merge them has been a great disaster. I believe it is the published aim of HIQA that the distinctions should be re-drawn.


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