Rio 2016 Marathon Qualification, whos trying?

RayCun · 02-04-2015 10:56am

average_runner wrote: »

What's the goal in sending someone to finish 68th?

You don't know where someone will finish before the event.

Meeting the Olympic qualifying standard is extremely difficult, but it is an achievable goal for the best Irish athletes. It's something they can realistically target. I'm not saying its a ceiling for their ambition, but people can tell themselves that if they take 3 seconds or 5 minutes off their time, or can jump or throw another 30cm, they will qualify for the Olympics. That's a massive carrot to dangle in front of any athlete, that will drive improvement.

(In some events they have to also be in the top 3 in Ireland, but there at least they can see the competition, they know the 2/3 people they have to be better than)

If you tell people that they have to achieve the qualifying standard AND be in the top 3 in Ireland AND be in the top 30 in the world... the step up is too high. You'll discourage rather than encourage. Everyone wants to win an Olympic gold, but there have to be achievable goals along the way - qualify, get to the next round, get to the final, get to the podium.

average_runner · 02-04-2015 10:59am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Ah the classic "don't send em if they ain't got a chance of medalling". These type of comments NEVER come from athletics people.

Don't feed the wind-up merchants.

Never said that, please read what i said above before accusing me of something.

So you consider JTG not athletics people too, they were saying the same thing

dublin runner · 02-04-2015 11:02am

Agree with NE above. I remember watching an RTE documentary about London 2012 and Mark Kenneally. Found his story completely inspiring, despite having never ran a race or trained in my life.

It's all about inspiring the next generation. I will never compete in the Olympics but maybe some 10 year old followed his story and well, who knows? We may see them medal one day.

walshb · 02-04-2015 11:02am

You could say don't send anyone that "finishes" outside the top 3........

If all countries had that attitude there wouldn't be any decent races. Meet the qualifying time and the race is good to go!

Although, in T&F you have measurements that can give you quite a good indicator of how well your athlete will perform. If they are clearly the weaker of the athletes then maybe sending them should be considered?

average_runner · 02-04-2015 11:02am

thirstywork2 wrote: »

Jesus what is with the negative attitude?
You never send someone or the athlete never has a goal of finishing 68th.
Sometimes we have stinkers(Sonia in Atlanta for example)

You can find many Irish athletes who finished way down on their debut of first few championship races.

Paul Robinson,Mark English didn't make finals of European U23 champs,so do we decided to tell them you cant go unless you make the final?
Karen shinkins is an Irish record holder at 400m (indoors) and finished 30th in the World Juniors & 30th in the Olympics but still went on to winning medals after.

Look at some of the Australian guys in the marathon in the past few years.They are no world beaters but come championships(with experience) they perform.

Yes we all have bad days, excluding that.
Never said anything in relation to what your saying above. Never said they had to make finals

Chivito550 · 02-04-2015 11:06am

average_runner wrote: »

Never said that, please read what i said above before accusing me of something.

Your attitude is the same as that. It doesn't matter that you didn't say those words. Athletics people do not think like this. Athletics people want as many representatives in a major championship as possible as it creates excitement for juniors, inspiring them to do likewise. There is so much more to athletics than being competitive in the Olympics.

Either you are just on a wind-up (probable given your recent posts) or you are not really an athletics person. Nobody in the athletics community (I don't count fun running in this) would think like this.

dublin runner · 02-04-2015 11:06am

walshb wrote:

Don't send anyone that finishes outside the top 3........

No way. First or nothing baby! Who really wants an Olympic silver or bronze? Worthless!! Haha.

Krusty_Clown · 02-04-2015 11:07am

Murph_D wrote: »

And then there is Chris Harrington. Does he have any chance do you think? At least he seems to be putting in the effort.

He's got plenty of time, but based on recent race times, he has a significant uphill battle. To put it into perspective, Sergiu Ciobanu is trying to get the qualifying time. Sergiu was nearly four minutes ahead of Chris in the Ballycotton 10 mile. Still, Chris seems to be massively motivated, so who knows what he can pull off in the next 18 months. Were I a gambling man though? It's be hard to see him getting into a top position against the likes of Pollock, Fagan(?), Hehir, Kenneally, Frazer, Ciobanu, Clohisey et al. At the same time, his goal seems to have been to try to get there, so it's as much about the journey as the destination, so whatever happens (if he can remain injury free), trying to achieve the goal will see huge improvements in his ability/performance.

walshb · 02-04-2015 11:08am

dublin runner wrote: »

No way. First or nothing baby! Who really wants an Olympic silver or bronze? Worthless!! Haha.

Classic Roy Keane attitude!:)

average_runner · 02-04-2015 11:08am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Your attitude is the same as that. It doesn't matter that you didn't say those words. Athletics people do not think like this. Athletics people want as many representatives in a major championship as possible as it creates excitement for juniors, inspiring them to do likewise. There is so much more to athletics than being competitive in the Olympics.

Either you are just on a wind-up (probable given your recent posts) or you are not really an athletics person. Nobody in the athletics community (I don't count fun running in this) would think like this.

What kid on the street is going to see a Irish runner in 68th spot for example, won't even have tv coverage or be in the media. Top 30 you have a better chance.

Don't start labelling someone that you don't know.

walshb · 02-04-2015 11:10am

average_runner wrote: »

What kid on the street is going to see a Irish runner in 68th spot for example, won't even have tv coverage or be in the media. Top 30 you have a better chance.

Don't start labelling someone that you don't know.

In relation to global marathons (Olympics and Wcs) would 68 or so race in the marathon final?

Chivito550 · 02-04-2015 11:11am

average_runner wrote: »

What kid on the street is going to see a Irish runner in 68th spot for example, won't even have tv coverage or be in the media. Top 30 you have a better chance.

Don't start labelling someone that you don't know.

Top 30 in the 400m is second last in your heat. What are your thoughts on that?

Top 30 in the marathon appears decent to you because of the size of the field. So if top 30 is your criteria then I take it it is only in the marathon you have these beliefs so?

dublin runner · 02-04-2015 11:12am

average_runner wrote:

What kid on the street is going to see a Irish runner in 68th spot for example, won't even have tv coverage or be in the media. Top 30 you have a better chance.

You'd be surprised. There's athletes who have competed in the Olympics, Europeans etc. in my club. Pretty inspiring for any athlete. Especially the younger athletes.

average_runner · 02-04-2015 11:19am

Chivito550 wrote: »

Top 30 in the 400m is second last in your heat. What are your thoughts on that?

Top 30 in the marathon appears decent to you because of the size of the field. So if top 30 is your criteria then I take it it is only in the marathon you have these beliefs so?

Talking about marathon here, obviously other events require different criteria, but reasonable ones.

average_runner · 02-04-2015 11:21am

dublin runner wrote: »

You'd be surprised. There's athletes who have competed in the Olympics, Europeans etc. in my club. Pretty inspiring for any athlete. Especially the younger athletes.

Yes club runners will know, but there could be more potential out there to tap into.

Krusty_Clown · 02-04-2015 11:23am

I'd give my left and right testicles to come 68th in the Olympic marathon.

kit3 · 02-04-2015 11:23am

average_runner wrote: »

What kid on the street is going to see a Irish runner in 68th spot for example, won't even have tv coverage or be in the media. Top 30 you have a better chance.

Don't start labelling someone that you don't know.

Speaking from experience, kids are madly enthused by the Olympics - they follow every last bit of it if there is an interest in the house and will always follow any Irish interest closely. They see it as a huge achievement to be in the Olympics & understand what it takes to get there

Chivito550 · 02-04-2015 11:24am

Rob Heffernan and Olive Loughnane both finished way down the field in their first Olympics. Both became World Champions.

Dodge · 02-04-2015 11:24am

Imagine being an Olympic standard runner and some lad on the internet isn't happy to see you finish in 60th position.

You've trained for years, achieved the standard set out by the relevant bodies and been selected by the national association as one of the few they deem acceptable to represent the nation at the every-four-years Summer Olympics.

But some lad on the internet isn't happy about it...

kit3 · 02-04-2015 11:25am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'd give my left and right testicles to come 68th in the Olympic marathon.

Have you run that by Emer ??? :eek:

kit3 · 02-04-2015 11:26am

Dodge wrote: »

Imagine being an Olympic standard runner and some lad on the internet isn't happy to see you finish in 60th position.

You've trained for years, achieved the standard set out by the relevant bodies and been selected by the national association as one of the few they deem acceptable to represent the nation at the every-four-years Summer Olympics.

But some lad on the internet isn't happy about it...

Ha, reckon you wouldn't give a toss what some lad on the internet thinks

Chivito550 · 02-04-2015 11:27am

kit3 wrote: »

Speaking from experience, kids are madly enthused by the Olympics - they follow every last bit of it if there is an interest in the house and will always follow any Irish interest closely. They see it as a huge achievement to be in the Olympics & understand what it takes to get there

Exactly. I was never involved in athletics as a kid but loved watching it. I remember watching Gary Ryan racing Frankie Fredericks in his first round heat of the 200 and qualifying for round 2. I thought that was pretty cool. Would it have been better if they didn't waste the money sending him to Atlanta?

walshb · 02-04-2015 11:28am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'd give my left and right testicles to come 68th in the Olympic marathon.

So would I, well, maybe just the left one, but maybe an elite marathon runner wouldn't?

Clum · 02-04-2015 11:34am

Championship marathons are usually much slower than their city counterparts. With the exception of Wanjiru going flat out from the gun in Beijing the real racing in a championship marathon starts after the halfway point. This slows the race down.

Being able to run the qualifying time actually gives all entrants a great chance of a top 20 finish. So anybody who can run the qualifying time has a chance of finishing top 20. Of course things may not go to plan and inevitably people finish out of the top 50.

2.15 in London Olympics would have secured a top 20 finish.
2.15 in Moscow World Championships would have secured a top 20 finish.
2.15 in Zurich Euro Championships would have secured a top 10.

If they can do it in qualifying there's the chance they'll do it at the championships so send them. Don't hold them back because maybe they'll have a mare and not win a meddle. Nobody can predict what's going to happen in a marathon.

pistol_75 · 02-04-2015 11:39am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'd give my left and right testicles to come 68th in the Olympic marathon.

Well if you got the job done you just might or even better based on your times

pistol_75 · 02-04-2015 11:41am

Clum wrote: »

Championship marathons are usually much slower than their city counterparts. With the exception of Wanjiru going flat out from the gun in Beijing the real racing in a championship marathon starts after the halfway point. This slows the race down.

Being able to run the qualifying time actually gives all entrants a great chance of a top 20 finish. So anybody who can run the qualifying time has a chance of finishing top 20. Of course things may not go to plan and inevitably people finish out of the top 50.

2.15 in London Olympics would have secured a top 20 finish.
2.15 in Moscow World Championships would have secured a top 20 finish.
2.15 in Zurich Euro Championships would have secured a top 10.

If they can do it in qualifying there's the chance they'll do it at the championships so send them. Don't hold them back because maybe they'll have a mare and not win a meddle. Nobody can predict what's going to happen in a marathon.

Exactly. Should we have stopped John Treacy from running in LA because he had never run a marathon before?

Krusty_Clown · 02-04-2015 11:48am

pistol_75 wrote: »

Exactly. Should we have stopped John Treacy from running in LA because he had never run a marathon before?

I'm sure Treacy was selected based on some other criteria though (e.g. 10k/half marathon performance), much as Britton was given the opportunity to run her debut marathon in the European Championships. Agree with the general sentiment though.

kit3 wrote:

Have you run that by Emer ???

I'm sure she'd be on board. She'd probably offer to do the clipping.

pistol_75 · 02-04-2015 11:51am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm sure Treacy was selected based on some other criteria though (e.g. 10k/half marathon performance), much as Britton was given the opportunity to run her debut marathon in the European Championships. Agree with the general sentiment though.

I know things were different back then but I think he only entered or decided to run a day or 2 before, as in all his training had been towards the 10K albeit with some pretty decent long runs.

tHE vAGGABOND · 02-04-2015 11:52am

I do think this is a good debate to have, btw and no need for folks to get upset. We need to talk about these things..

Next, of course all of us internet warriors would love to be selected for the olympics. Second, of course those selected worked their arses off and should get a chance. But we send a lot of people who don't get out of their first heat, and I do often wonder if we should better support fewer people. Should we give those fewer folks more resources - I think it's a valid debate. [How do you select them, its simple, these folks consistently do well during their season, be that at indoors, at college meetings in the states [since most of our T&F prospects are over there], at major races / meetings, at euro's etc]

Rob Heffernan and Olive Loughnane both finished way down the field in their first Olympics. Both became World Champions.

There is the other debate right there, should younger folks be allowed go, over someone who wants to go to one last championship to crown off their career - that is often a very hard call..

Send the person in their early 20's for the excellent experience, or send the person who is doing well in their mid-30's who wants one last go.

If this was sprinting, and someone got to the Olympics that would be great, but what if they get knocked out in heat 1 at 8am on morning one of the games with 20 people watching RTE? Is that a success [and does it matter!]? For them it is, getting to the games after years of hard work there, but as a nation and for the AAI and for the development of athletics?

It's the same with the Marathon and people finishing well down the race IMHO - but I could well be wrong...

walshb · 02-04-2015 11:58am

Maybe in future to save time and money and make the viewing more "enjoyable" and quicker they will lower/higher the times/distances/heights/points needed across all events. No heats. Just semis and finals almost. The qualifying standards made a lot more stringent at elite level? Anyone for that? Could that do any harm, apart from us not seeing many Irish at championships?

Rio 2016 Marathon Qualification, whos trying?

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