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A plea to Ganley to enter the Dáil!

2

Comments

  • #52
    AugustusMaximus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭AugustusMaximus


    Did Ganley announce that he is pro European integration on defence and wouldn't be against a European army ?


  • #53
    Blazer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,452 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    my list against Ganley (feel free to add!)

    6. having US military personnel who are responsible for starting wars on his company


    I was under the impression that only the President of the USA had the authority to declare war only with Congress's approval unless it was provoked like in Pearl Harbour ;)


  • #54
    dodgyme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    I love to see ganley in the dail. First act to hang JOD (methaphorically speaking)


  • #55
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Berkut wrote: »
    I was under the impression that only the President of the USA had the authority to declare war only with Congress's approval unless it was provoked like in Pearl Harbour ;)

    Richard Myers was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (2001-2005), Air Force Gen.

    under Bush 2 when they went to Iraq


    guess whose opinion Bush had to listen to?

    guess who was in charge when the Iraq prisoner abuse happened?

    some interesting reads

    http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/09/hbc-90005659
    The United States military had a proud record of upholding the Geneva Conventions in the roughly fifty years that followed their restatement in 1949. Suddenly, beginning in 2002, it went off the tracks. The American public first began to focus on that fact in April 2004, when photographs from an American prison in Iraq appeared on Sixty Minutes and in the New Yorker. The photos showed the torture and abuse of prisoners in a specially controlled cellblock containing high-value detainees. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, with Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard B. Myers at his side, pushed back, attributing the incident to “a few bad apples.” That was shortly exposed as a lie, as evidence mounted that the techniques shown in the photographs at Abu Ghraib had in fact been approved by Rumsfeld and were applied, sometimes with fatal consequences, in U.S. prisons around the world–from Bagram in Afghanistan to Guantánamo.

    yes the guy in charge of starting that quaqmire is working with Ganley now

    and his only one of many on that company


  • #56
    jhegarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    General Myers was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (2001-2005), Air Force Gen.

    under Bush2 when they went to Iraq


    So he was a solider who followed orders.

    Are you suggesting there should have been a coup d'état ?


  • #57
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    jhegarty wrote: »
    So he was a solider who followed orders.

    Are you suggesting there should have been a coup d'état ?

    A soldier who followed orders?

    wow just wow

    the guy was in charge of the army at the time the war started, he was the one who pitched the idea of War! the only guy in charge of him was The Chief himself > George W. Bush

    heres some reading for you

    himself and Bush should be dragged to the Hague for war crimes


  • #58
    jhegarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,441 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    A soldier who followed orders?

    wow just wow

    the guy was in charge of the army at the time the war started, he was the one who pitched the idea of War! the only guy in charge of him was The Chief himself > George W. Bush

    heres some reading for you

    himself and Bush should be dragged to the Hague for war crimes

    So you are in favour of a coup d'état ?


  • #59
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    jhegarty wrote: »
    So you are in favour of a coup d'état ?

    im in favour of war criminals being charged with what they deserve

    he urged Bush to start the war

    he could have told him "no this is a bad idea" and Bush would have had to listen, no need for a coup d'état

    and now this guy and others from Bush'es inner circle are working for Ganley

    tho in hindsight removing Bush would have save north of a million lives in Iraq alone

    :mad:


  • #60
    bug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭bug


    Just as an aside was anyone watching Farrage on BBC news 24 yesterday?
    He basically said there is a gap in the market in Ireland for a party.

    I can't remember his exact words, but outside of his main message, it was sort of alarming.

    I'd agree that there is a gap in the market for a new party and that's where it ends. Either we fill it ourselves or we will get outside rightwingers doing it for us.

    As far as ganley is concerned he's a bit of a nothing in nice clothes.
    Simmons was far more the intellectual speaker, saw her on France24 and she was amazing. She doesn't hesitate like Ganley.

    As a no voter he did our bidding in the lead up to the referendum but that's where my alliances with them would end.

    The laughable end of this for me was Lenihan portraying him as Dr. Evil just days before the referendum.
    Indeed them being able to portray him in such a light lead to many more questions in my mind.

    I think that any new party to enter into the irish political stage will be portrayed as the devil.
    I've never seen anything like this before in Irish politics, we are entering into a really interesting time indeed.


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  • #61
    odoylerulez
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭odoylerulez


    bug wrote: »
    Just as an aside was anyone watching Farrage on BBC news 24 yesterday?
    He basically said there is a gap in the market in Ireland for a party.

    I can't remember his exact words, but outside of his main message, it was sort of alarming.

    I'd agree that there is a gap in the market for a new party and that's where it ends. Either we fill it ourselves or we will get outside rightwingers doing it for us.

    As far as ganley is concerned he's a bit of a nothing in nice clothes.
    Simmons was far more the intellectual speaker, saw her on France24 and she was amazing. She doesn't hesitate like Ganley.

    As a no voter he did our bidding in the lead up to the referendum but that's where my alliances with them would end.

    The laughable end of this for me was Lenihan portraying him as Dr. Evil just days before the referendum.
    Indeed them being able to portray him in such a light lead to many more questions in my mind.

    I think that any new party to enter into the irish political stage will be portrayed as the devil.
    I've never seen anything like this before in Irish politics, we are entering into a really interesting time indeed.

    What an inditement of irish politics! lol

    Irish politics is one big joke. Family after family getting their inlaws involved you know. Anyone not in the inner circle is treated like an outcast.


  • #62
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    odoylerulez wrote: »
    What an inditement of irish politics! lol

    Irish politics is one big joke. Family after family getting their inlaws involved you know. Anyone not in the inner circle is treated like an outcast.


    This I'm in total agreement with.

    The Irish main stream top parties TOTALLY fear anything new. Its an unknown element that might rock the boat and their first reaction is of course, self-preservation.
    So they ALL enmass attempt to shoot anything down before it has the chance to progress further.
    For them its "Better the devil you know than the one you don't"

    Anyone considering entering the political arena better know this BIG time, just what's a head and just as important - prepare for it.


  • #63
    sold
    Closed Accounts Posts: 285 ✭✭sold


    darkman2 wrote: »
    I reckon we need a Ganley in the Dáil - what do you think? A bit of democracy and accountability does no harm.
    ask the albanians who lost their money with him. They will give some good advice.


  • #64
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Biggins wrote: »
    So they ALL enmass attempt to shoot anything down before it has the chance to progress further.
    We've experienced a lot of this ourselves in AN, as they say - there's no such thing as bad PR. :D


  • #65
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    stakey wrote: »
    A very honest politician :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMRP_TqBzr0

    That was brilliant.
    Thanks.


  • #66
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    odoylerulez wrote: »
    You guys really hate ganley don't you. He represents everything you could never be. Honest.

    It drives you crazy to see someone calling you on your bull. Thats why you reserve all your venom for him. Its ok to admit the truth because it can be seen in your words. Calling him a snake oil salesman thats really very funny coming from some of you guys who support the current crop of absolute excuses for humanity we have in government. When your finished bootlicking they have a space reserved for you in the carlot. You can drive them home from work maybe pick up a penny or two!

    Few on here support the current crop, just read a few posts.

    Most people though, prefer to vote on policies than voting for someone because of who he is.

    Ganley doesn't seem to have any domestic policies or ideas on how to solve our current crisis and the only thing we do know about him is that he didn't like Lisbon. Given Lisbon was just overwhelmingly supported by the public in the recent referendum, the only thing most people know about Ganley they don't agree with him on so why would they vote for him?


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  • #67
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    thebman wrote: »
    Most people though, prefer to vote on policies than voting for someone because of who he is.
    I only wish that were true but the litany of relatives in the Dail says otherwise. we all know the place is full of children of dead TDs. I was happy the people of Dublin South told Seamus Brennan's son to take a hike but this is unusual I would say.


  • #68
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    most irish people vote based on which party thier family tree votes for , policys come a distant second


  • #69
    Euro_Kraut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,957 ✭✭✭Euro_Kraut


    irish_bob wrote: »
    most irish people vote based on which party thier family tree votes for , policys come a distant second


    Its really not that simple. People views on issues to a large extent is shaped by the family they grow up with. So if you grow in say a Labour household than you probably end up having left of centre views. That leads you to vote for a left of centre party, like Labour.

    So the correlation is there between how your parents voted and how their children vote but it is not as straightforward a process a the 'blind loyaly' theory would suggest.


  • #70
    Lame Lantern
    Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭Lame Lantern


    If you truly object to the entirety of the Irish political mainstream, why settle on an individual with dubious business credentials simply because he's the loudest man on the planet? Failing to find appropriate representation within what's readily available should not throw you into the arms of a man whose political life has been largely bankrolled by hedge funds and often British based, right wing lobby groups. Look for real idealism or demand it because settling for Ganley would be the laziest (or at least the most misguided) application of a counterculture ideology in the history of everything ever.


  • #71
    nacho libre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,958 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    im in favour of war criminals being charged with what they deserve

    he urged Bush to start the war

    he could have told him "no this is a bad idea" and Bush would have had to listen, no need for a coup d'état

    and now this guy and others from Bush'es inner circle are working for Ganley

    tho in hindsight removing Bush would have save north of a million lives in Iraq alone

    :mad:

    it's sort of funny that some of those pushing for a yes vote to the Lisbon Treaty, who were virulently opposed to him because of this, would actually agree 100 per cent with him on the Iraq War.
    mikemac wrote: »
    He said he was stepping away from politics after being rejected by the electorate in the European elections.

    And then he comes back again....

    He was either lying to us or just changing his plans and has no idea what he plans to do.
    Why not make a decision and stick with it?

    should we only focus on the u-turns and the shady aspects of those we are opposed to?
    i ask because Scofflaw found Ganley's u-turn amusing, but he didn't see fit to say anything about Eamon Gilmore's. it seems to me bias has a nasty habit of getting in the way of consistency


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  • #72
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    irish_bob wrote: »
    most irish people vote based on which party thier family tree votes for , policys come a distant second
    Where do you base this on?
    Or are we talking about your road in your neighbourhood?


  • #73
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    nacho libre wrote: »
    it's sort of funny that some of those pushing for a yes vote to the Lisbon Treaty, who were virulently opposed to him because of this, would actually agree 100 per cent with him on the Iraq War.

    agree with him on the Iraq war?

    wtf the guy is selling weapons

    he shouldnt be allowed near politics

    he has no policies


  • #74
    duploelabs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,702 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    I'd sooner have Michael O'Leary in the Dail than Deco Ganley


  • #75
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    duploelabs wrote: »
    I'd sooner have Michael O'Leary in the Dail than Deco Ganley

    That's a Scylla and Charybdis choice: which monster do you want to destroy you?


  • #76
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    P. Breathnach wrote: »
    That's a Scylla and Charybdis choice: which monster do you want to destroy you?

    Michael O'Leary is not a monster ; he is head of one of the most successful companies and employers ever to come out of Ireland, and the hundreds of millions of tax he and his company has paid has ensured your pension is as high as it is. Would you prefer if the flying situation was the same as 30 years ago, when it cost 180 pounds ( a lot of money then ) to fly to the UK with the unionised state monopoly carrier, Aer Lingus ? Ryanair is very successful and we should be proud of that, and it has ensured many people can avail of reasonably priced flights, which has helped to stimulate our tourism industry over the years. What other Irish home grown company is a leader in its sector in Europe ?


  • #77
    cornbb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    O'Leary has been great for Irish business I agree, but I dunno about putting him in power... he would probably sort out the country's finances in a month and slash waiting lists, but at some sort of inconceivably humiliating cost... He would still be better than Ganley though.


  • #78
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    cornbb wrote: »
    O'Leary has been great for Irish business I agree, but I dunno about putting him in power... he would probably sort out the country's finances in a month and slash waiting lists,

    Good enough reason to have him in power so !

    If you want to talk about humiliation, nothing could be more humiliating that having the sort of government / p.s running the country the way it has over the past few years. Nothing is more humiliating than seeing people whose lives have been destroyed, people with savings + pensions made worthless, people in huge negative equity, and a system where now enterprise, risk-taking and hard work is a less desirable option for most school leavers than a career in the p.s. Ask any self employed person who is not entitled to the dole.


  • #79
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Michael O'Leary is not a monster ; he is head of one of the most successful companies and employers ever to come out of Ireland, and the hundreds of millions of tax he and his company has paid has ensured your pension is as high as it is.
    He's a superb businessman, nobody can deny his acumen in that area, but you can't run a country like a business. There are so many social considerations to keep in mind - for example what value would he place on the arts or social welfare? Give him power over the legislature and what would he do with it? Hes doing fine where he is, leave him there would be my opinion.

    Ganley likewise appears to be a good businessman, but nobody seems quite sure what his business is, except that it involves the US military, an organisation very well known for getting involved in politics outside the US. We don't want or need to be second guessing any decisions he might make as to why he's doing what hes doing. In any case he's been tainted by his association with Libertas and their right wing alliances around Europe.


  • #80
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,009 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Ganley is the ultimate bad guy with a huge amount of charisma and sinister level of intelligence. He reminds me of Vince McMahon.

    He came from nowhere, never had any political support and all of a sudden he is on all the primetime media shows debating government ministers.

    Ganley is a very good example of how referendums can be subverted by people who skip the usual hurdles of politics i.e. watching your *ss, having to give people bad news, having to make tough decisions having to stand over promises you were never able to keep and just come in right at the top.


  • #81
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    He's a superb businessman, nobody can deny his acumen in that area, but you can't run a country like a business.
    A business means controlling income + expenditure, and striving to keep everyone happy : all successful countries do that. Its time our country was ran like a business. Look at Singapore.
    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    There are so many social considerations to keep in mind - for example what value would he place on the arts or social welfare?
    He might abolish the tax emption for artists, + some of the grants. awwwwww. Artists + write may now have to pay tax.


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  • #82
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Michael O'Leary is not a monster ; he is head of one of the most successful companies and employers ever to come out of Ireland, and the hundreds of millions of tax he and his company has paid has ensured your pension is as high as it is...

    Leave my personal circumstances out of this; they are not relevant here.


  • #83
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    jimmmy wrote: »
    A business means controlling income + expenditure, and striving to keep everyone happy : all successful countries do that. Its time our country was ran like a business. Look at Singapore.
    Singapore has been a one party state since 1959, and the PAP hold onto power ruthlessly, unless you are advocating Ireland move politically towards an autocracy? Social welfare is an example of one area which has no place in business, so no, you can't run a country like a business, since businesses are autocratic entities with no place for a democratic voice or social needs.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    He might abolish the tax emption for artists, + some of the grants. awwwwww. Artists + write may now have to pay tax.
    I was referring more to support for the arts than their tax exemptions.


  • #84
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Even though I do not receive cheques from the government, I certainly appreciate the hundreds of millions of tax he and his company has paid here over the years. Its a pity not all of those who receive money from the government hold him in high esteem, given his achievements / all he has done for Ireland. We could do with a few more Michael O'Leary's in Ireland, inc one to run the government.


  • #85
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    He's good at paying tax. I wouldn't vote for him to spend it.


  • #86
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Right! Things that can be said about him...

    Ganley - Pro's:
    * He's a businessman.
    * He can speak well in general terms.
    * He's a dab hand at dealing with media.
    * He can speak about one particular subject.

    Ganley - Cons:
    * He has outlined NOTHING in regards to running a state, all its various departments, social aspects, etc, except for one single issue within one area.
    * In this country he is on one side of an issue yet in Europe he appears to be on the other side when it suits him!
    * He himself appears to be unsure one week to another if he is British or Irish - except when its convenient!


    Ganley - The Unknowns:
    * Who is ALL is backers?
    * Who is lobbying him and more importantly - why? (what is their agenda?)...
    * Why is he so mixed up with the American military? (What is their agenda in relation to Ireland?)
    * Why is only some of his details known - when the rest is classified by the Americans and again, why?
    * He wants Ireland to be an individual stand alone nation but integrated into larger EU - Say huh??? :confused:

    My Conclusion: with all the above - he's far too much of an unknown for me.
    I don't know where he honestly stands.
    I don't trust him.
    He's said bugger all about what way he thinks in relation to other policy areas.
    He is spare with the truth.
    He's no beginner when it comes to tax dodging!

    There is just too many questions...


  • #87
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    you can't run a country like a business
    You are right. The country should borrow as much as possible, and pay itself+ its employees the highest wages in the known world. It should allow its many politicans ( the highest ratio in the Europe....one td for each 21,000 electorate ) plenty of expenses etc, and its fas director to go on plenty of junkets around the world. It seems to be working. :rolleyes:
    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I was referring more to support for the arts than their tax exemptions.
    Its great supporting arts, but the country is borrowing 20 to 25 billion a year and the countries health system + educational system often leaves a lot to be desired. There are people here getting handouts + grants the like of which is unseen in many other countries : likewise our system where millionaire writers, artists and musicians pay no income tax means the burden is heavier on the ordinary person in the wealth creating sector.


  • #88
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    You can fix every problem in the country without having to go overboard on the other side of the boat.


  • #89
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    He's good at paying tax.

    he has probably paid hundreds of millions, and created thousands of jobs, and brought millions of tourists to the country, and lowered fares ( remember paying £ 180 and £ 200 in the '80s to go with unionised Aer Lingus to London:D )

    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I wouldn't vote for him to spend it.
    Nope, you would vote for the government + the p.s. sector to spend the money, which is what they do. Great value for money the citizen gets as well ( looking at the defecit, the state of our hospitals + schools etc ).


  • #90
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Even though I do not receive cheques from the government, I certainly appreciate the hundreds of millions of tax he and his company has paid here over the years. Its a pity not all of those who receive money from the government hold him in high esteem, given his achievements / all he has done for Ireland. We could do with a few more Michael O'Leary's in Ireland, inc one to run the government.

    jimmmy, other posters' personal circumstances are not germane. You've been asked to leave out the snide personal remarks - if you can't, we can easily escalate this.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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  • #91
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Nope, you would vote for the government + the p.s. sector to spend the money, which is what they do. Great value for money the citizen gets as well ( looking at the defecit, the state of our hospitals + schools etc ).
    I don't want this government to spend the money. Saying Ganley or O'Leary aren't right for the job isn't an endorsement of the wahoos we have in power at the moment.


  • #92
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    jimmmy, other posters' personal circumstances are not germane. You've been asked to leave out the snide personal remarks - if you can't, we can easily escalate this.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw

    sorry , and apologies to anyone I may have offended.


  • #93
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    jimmmy wrote: »
    sorry , and apologies to anyone I may have offended.

    Good man, nuff said.

    Back on topic, Ganley would be a mistake to let in.
    All he has going for him is some PR (be it good or bad).
    Hell, Paris Hilton has had PR too and spoke up at American election time.
    I still wouldn't invite her either to come and go in the Dail by the front door or the back door! ;)

    :D


  • #94
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I don't want this government to spend the money. Saying Ganley or O'Leary aren't right for the job isn't an endorsement of the wahoos we have in power at the moment.

    You said "I wouldn't vote for him to spend it", but yet his track record at earning money and spending money wisely is infinitely better than any of the " wahoos we have in power ", is it not ? The wahoos* we have in power are like the bosses we had in Aer Lingus 30 years ago, are they not? They were great for themselves and great for their employees, but for the rest of us ?

    I think Michael O'Leary deserves great respect, and I would value his opinions on economics. Plus he pays his taxes in Ireland. Not everyone does.

    * wahoos in power : not my term ....some are better than others in our govt....the next few months will tell a lot and decide if our minister for finance is a wahoo or not - for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He inherited / stepped in to a crazy situation.


  • #95
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    jimmmy wrote: »
    You said "I wouldn't vote for him to spend it", but yet his track record at earning money and spending money wisely is infinitely better than any of the " wahoos we have in power ", is it not ?
    Only in terms of making a profit, not in terms of looking after the social good.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    I think Michael O'Leary deserves great respect, and I would value his opinions on economics. Plus he pays his taxes in Ireland. Not everyone does.
    I'd value his opinions on how to run an airline to be honest. Beyond that I'd take it as it comes.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    * wahoos in power : not my term ....some are better than others in our govt....the next few months will tell a lot and decide if our minister for finance is a wahoo or not - for now I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He inherited / stepped in to a crazy situation.
    So what you're saying is you support NAMA? But a minute ago you were comparing the people in charge to Aer Lingus bosses in the 80s, good for nobody but themselves. Which way do you want it now.


  • #96
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jimmmy wrote: »
    sorry , and apologies to anyone I may have offended.

    I wasn't offended. I was irritated that a discussion was being deflected.


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  • #97
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Only in terms of making a profit .
    if earning money / providing a better service for the public and spending money wisely can be reduced to "Only in terms of making a profit"...were Aer Lingus bosses say 30 years ago interested in making a profit or in terms of looking after the social good ?
    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    not in terms of looking after the social good..

    O'Leary has done more for the social good of the country by lowering air faires and creating employment and paying massive taxes than any of the bossees of the unionised airline that was Aer Lingus 30 years ago.
    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    I'd value his opinions on how to run an airline to be honest. Beyond that I'd take it as it comes..

    I would value his opinion on anything to do with economics to be honest.
    He has experience of how the real world works.
    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    So what you're saying is you support NAMA? .
    I did not mention Nama. Nama would not be necessary if the govt / central bank / regulator had acted properly over the years. Now the banks are in difficulty, if the govt let them go to the wall, foreign bond holders would lose money, our credit rating would go sky high + the govt would not be able to borrow the money for next weeks public servants wages. Plus you would have tens of thousands of unemployed bank people, and a huge knock on effect. Nationalised banks tend not to perform well, so I think either a big loan or NAMA are the only games in town. As Dermot Desmond says, probably NAMA was not the best idea....we need to be reducing the public sector, not increasing it. Plus the banks know the loans / people best, and can manage the debts best. So for the govt to lend money to the banks would in my opinion have been the best option, but NAMA is just a means of acquiring the goods ( in this case property ) for a percentage of the market cost a few years ago.
    The people who have definitely lost out / have lost money are the developers, who lost their 20% ( or whatever the individual case may be ) deposit in the property.

    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    But a minute ago you were comparing the people in charge to Aer Lingus bosses in the 80s, good for nobody but themselves.
    Most of them are. Lenehen though is getting to grips with the job, after Ahern + Cowen caved in to the p.s. unions during the tiger. The measure of his performance will be the extent and means by which he grapples with public sector pay.


  • #98
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    jimmmy wrote: »
    if earning money / providing a better service
    He didn't provide a better service though. Only a cheaper one.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    O'Leary has done more for the social good of the country by lowering air faires and creating employment and paying massive taxes than any of the bossees of the unionised airline that was Aer Lingus 30 years ago.
    He wasn't trying to do any social good though, only make a profit.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    I would value his opinion on anything to do with economics to be honest.
    He has experience of how the real world works.
    Economics are a far cry from the skills needed to run an airline.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    I did not mention Nama.
    But is that not Lenihan's baby?
    jimmmy wrote: »
    Most of them are. Lenehen though is getting to grips with the job, after Ahern + Cowen caved in to the p.s. unions during the tiger. The measure of his performance will be the extent and means by which he grapples with public sector pay.
    Lenihan is getting to grip with tens of billions of other people's money in one of the worst implementations of a NAMA type model ever seen.


  • #99
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    He didn't provide a better service though. Only a cheaper one..

    Better value for money in most peoples eyes ( compared to the 180 to 200 pounds most people were forced to pay on unionised Aer Lingus 30 years ago ) .
    Ok you may have got a reheated breakfast on board but it cost you more than a fortnights wages ;)

    Plus O'Leary provided more frequent flights, flew from / to more airports ...ok he + his company are not perfect, but overall to millions of people they have provided a better service....and they have paid a lot of tax....

    His airline unlike Aer Lingus has a record of no crashes either ( thank God )....and I think he has a better record on punctuality than Air Lingus ...and probably lost baggage ..so I dunno how you can say "He didn't provide a better service"
    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    He wasn't trying to do any social good though, only make a profit..

    "only" make a profit....I demonstrated how he did achieve social good though. I think him and his airline have beneffited society more than many do-gooders paid by the govt to benefit society.;)

    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Economics are a far cry from the skills needed to run an airline..

    So you could not develop or run one of the leading airlines in Europe ( from a little green island off Europes west coat ) without Economics ?

    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Lenihan is getting to grip with tens of billions of other people's money in one of the worst implementations of a NAMA type model ever seen.
    perhaps. time will tell a lot.


  • #100
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    jimmmy wrote: »
    Better value for money in most peoples eyes
    No, cheaper in most people's eyes. O'Leary recognised a simple fact about airline travel, which is that its not an end unto itself, its a taxi ride.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    "only" make a profit....I demonstrated how he did achieve social good though. I think him and his airline have beneffited society more than many do-gooders paid by the govt to benefit society.;)
    He didn't set out to achieve social good, it was a byproduct of his profit making goals.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    So you could not develop or run one of the leading airlines in Europe ( from a little green island off Europes west coat ) without Economics ?
    Yes, economics in the macro sense has little to do with book keeping and cost cutting, its an entirely different discipline.
    jimmmy wrote: »
    perhaps. time will tell a lot.
    Not if the greens pull out. Which is admittedly unlikely.


  • #101
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    ...O'Leary recognised a simple fact about airline travel, which is that its not an end unto itself, its a taxi ride...

    LOL Its off topic (sorry) but does O'Leary still own his own infamous taxi?

    For those that don't know, he purchased one some time back so that he could speed through Dublin streets in the Taxi lanes and avoid a lot of the traffic!
    That's O'Leary for you! :pac:


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