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Will Ireland ever improve?

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    #92
    andy1249
    Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭andy1249


    I was too young in the 80s to be aware of this stuff - was there a massive heroin problem then?Was Dublin city centre crawling with junkies?
    Absolutely , almost the same as now , except then the Stephens green was swamped with em as well , it was a bloody dangerous place in the 80's.
    James St. and Thomas St. was like a scene from the walking dead most weekends.
    Anyone going to NCAD at the time used to be terrified of the walk up to it.
    Were there as many drunks on the streets on a Saturday night?
    That has always been the case in this country , it hasn't changed , and beer was a lot cheaper back then than it is now.
    Was the country full of empty ghost estates?
    No one was building because no one had the money for it , there was no M50 , and getting across the city took hours with the state of the roads, Gardener St , Parnell St, Abbey St. and pretty much all the streets around Smithfield were going back to nature , in that most of the buildings were derelict and had grass and trees growing out of the brickwork , I **** you not ! In fact the City Center north of the river was hardly better than a shanty town.
    Were beauty spots polluted with one off housing due to brown envelopes?
    I can only speak for Dublin , I rarely if ever had the money to go anywhere else in the Country , and not much qualified in Dublin in the 80's to be called a Beauty spot.

    Has it really improved?

    It has improved immensely , without a shadow of a doubt.


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    #93
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    I'm not blinded by London at all, I know it has lots of problems but it feels like they are progressive here and actually try and tackle issues head on. If Covent Garden, a massive tourist location, was crawling with heroin addicts like Dublin city centre, I've no doubt Boris would do something about it.
    And when the expenses scandal was big news here, they did something about it, they imprisoned people. Why is Ivor Callelly walking the streets?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parliamentary_expenses_scandal#Criminal_charges

    Covent Garden is one thing but what about just outside the centre away from the tourism? What was done about the stabbings (and the drug dealing, drug addicts, robberies etc) in my area that happened on a regular basis? Perhaps Dublin is smaller so it's harder to hide the problem like in London. Just cos you can't see this happen right in the centre of London, doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere (and not that far from the centre)

    Reminds me of third world countries pushing the poor out to the outskirts for the Olympics to give the impression all is well. Don't believe all you see.

    And again, London is not the entirety of the UK or even England. Settle down in a city more North and see how it compares.

    Lived in Edinburgh too....bigger heroin problem there and regular fights outside my flat in the centre most weekend nights. And this is not Glasgow I'm talking about.


    As I said, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I really believe there's a hell of a lot you haven't seen in that country.


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    #94
    CucaFace
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭CucaFace


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    Has it improved? So poor people on the dole have xboxes and sky TV these days, which isn't really an improvement, but they are completely out of touch with everything and seem to be very angry. Were people getting beaten to death by teenagers or stabbed in the head with screwdrivers back then? Morals and decency and community are dead. Our leaders have shown us the way, to take all you can for yourself and not to care about anyone else.

    So you trying to tell me that this isn't the same over in the UK?

    Really?

    Have you forgotten the London Riots last year already?


    As for your pop at the fantastic Irish fans who did nothing but be an absoulte credit to the country for 2 weeks over the Euro's is just pathetic.

    Not real fans?

    By the way where the hell were you for the Euro's? Or did the REAL fans like you refuse to travel to the event itself.


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    #95
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Covent Garden is one thing but what about just outside the centre away from the tourism? What was done about the stabbings (and the drug dealing, drug addicts, robberies etc) in my area that happened on a regular basis? Perhaps Dublin is smaller so it's harder to hide the problem like in London. Just cos you can't see this happen right in the centre of London, doesn't mean it's not happening elsewhere (and not that far from the centre)

    Reminds me of third world countries pushing the poor out to the outskirts for the Olympics to give the impression all is well. Don't believe all you see.

    And again, London is not the entirety of the UK or even England. Settle down in a city more North and see how it compares.

    Lived in Edinburgh too....bigger heroin problem there and regular fights outside my flat in the centre most weekend nights. And this is not Glasgow I'm talking about.


    As I said, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I really believe there's a hell of a lot you haven't seen in that country.

    I live in Brixton I'm not oblivious to it. I was saying Cov Garden because it's a tourist trap like Dublin city centre, which is riddled with junkies. I spent a year in Edinburgh living on Nicolson st which you probably know, and Leith, the heroin problem is nowhere near as out in the open as it is in Dublin from my experiences.


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    #96
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    CucaFace wrote: »
    By the way where the hell were you for the Euro's? Or did the REAL fans like you refuse to travel to the event itself.

    I should have not mentioned the UK as now it's just a thread saying things are as bad in England, which makes everything ok in Ireland.
    I don't consider myself any type of fan.


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    #97
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    I live in Brixton I'm not oblivious to it. I was saying Cov Garden because it's a tourist trap like Dublin city centre, which is riddled with junkies.

    But Dublin is tiny. Not comparable to London. The rough parts aren't as far out as Brixton...they're right there in the centre....Convent Garden is a posh part of town....just like you're not going to see as many addicts South of the Liffey either....


    But I do agree with you on this point....the amount of addicts in Dublin is pretty shocking. Just as shocking in London though if you go to the rough parts. I saw plenty of it in Brixton when I spent a few weeks there a couple of years ago. This doesn't make the situation in Dublin any more justified though....

    Saying that, visited Dublin a few months ago with my boyfriend and warned him that he might find the amount of addicts in the centre shocking....dunno if they'd taken the day off or what but it seemed to have improved....


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    #98
    Eve_Dublin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,886 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    I should have not mentioned the UK as now it's just a thread saying things are as bad in England, which makes everything ok in Ireland.
    I don't consider myself any type of fan.

    And Spain! I suppose people can only comment on places they've lived in otherwise it's guess work....and I guess most Irish, if they've in another EU country, would have lived in England.


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    #99
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    But Dublin is tiny. Not comparable to London. The rough parts aren't as far out as Brixton...they're right there in the centre....Convent Garden is a posh part of town....just like you're not going to see as many addicts South of the Liffey either....


    But I do agree with you on this point....the amount of addicts in Dublin is pretty shocking. Just as shocking in London though if you go to the rough parts. I saw plenty of it in Brixton when I spent a few weeks there a couple of years ago.

    Saying that, visited Dublin a few months ago with my boyfriend and warned him that he might find the amount of addicts in the centre shocking....dunno if they'd taken the day off or what but it seemed to have improved....

    I've never seen a heroin addict in Brixton, I was saying this to some locals recently. I think crack is drug du jour right now. Anyway I just wanted to rant about Eire, because it's continously letting people down and people are continually emigrating and I can't see it improving.


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    #100
    CucaFace
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭CucaFace


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    I should have not mentioned the UK as now it's just a thread saying things are as bad in England, which makes everything ok in Ireland.
    I don't consider myself any type of fan.

    You don't consider yourself any type of fan yet you seem to think you can go and make the comments you just made about the fans were actually supported their side and went to Poland?

    And you didnt just meantion the UK, you basically stated it is something we here in Ireland should be looking at as beacon of enlightenment to improve our social issues here.

    Shocking and downright ridicules statement to make.


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    #101
    I am pie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭I am pie


    CucaFace wrote: »
    You don't consider yourself any type of fan yet you seem to think you can go and make the comments you just made about the fans were actually supported their side and went to Poland?

    And you didnt just meantion the UK, you basically stated it is something we here in Ireland should be looking at as beacon of enlightenment to improve our social issues here.

    Shocking and downright ridicules statement to make.

    He's sorry he mentioned the football as his statement has been shown up to be completely ridiculous.

    He's sorry he mentioned the UK because too many of things he complained about in Ireland exist there too.


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    #102
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    I am pie wrote: »
    He's sorry he mentioned the football as his statement has been shown up to be completely ridiculous.

    He's sorry he mentioned the UK because too many of things he complained about in Ireland exist there too.

    Ok then, discussion over, I lose.


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    #103
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    CucaFace wrote: »
    And you didnt just meantion the UK, you basically stated it is something we here in Ireland should be looking at as beacon of enlightenment to improve our social issues here.

    At least the UK is providing opportunities to our Irish graduates and unemployed, through initiative and business sense, at least they're doing something right.


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    #104
    CucaFace
    Registered Users Posts: 963 ✭✭✭CucaFace


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    I've never seen a heroin addict in Brixton, I was saying this to some locals recently. I think crack is drug du jour right now. Anyway I just wanted to rant about Eire, because it's continously letting people down and people are continually emigrating and I can't see it improving.

    Emirgrating because of a lack of job oppertunites.

    A lot of these people are not happy at having to leave their life in this country behind them as in all reality, life here isn't too bad at all.

    Its econmical reasons pushing people out.

    In fact its social issues that are still bringing people here .

    More and more Brazilians/ South Americans are coming here each year now as they love life here in comparison to what they have back in their home countries.


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    #105
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Anyway apart from picking apart my comparisons etc, I don't think I'm a great debater or anything so no wonder I'm being pulled apart, what I really wanted to discuss is whether you think Ireland will get itself to a good place in our lifetimes. Can you see a good health service, a happier people, a steady economy built on other things apart from construction? Politicians we can trust? Good public transport? Can we ever get to the level of a country like Sweden or Germany when it comes to these things?


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    #106
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    Anyway apart from picking apart my comparisons etc, I don't think I'm a great debater or anything so no wonder I'm being pulled apart, what I really wanted to discuss is whether you think Ireland will get itself to a good place in our lifetimes. Can you see a good health service, a happier people, a steady economy built on other things apart from construction? Politicians we can trust? Good public transport?
    Good health service in the next 10 years is feasible if the current Govt can implement the plans they have.

    We had a booming economy based on exports in the late 90s. Then we inflated the property bubble to produce a super boom which crashed and burned. That export economy is doing very well atm. We urgently need kids to choose more appropriate careers to suit the economy though i.e. science & technology.

    TBF to them our current crop of politicians are probably the most honest we've had.

    Public transport is not going to improve much more given the holes in the budget but its come a long way since the 80s. If anything its getting crucified by the huge success in getting the motorway network built.
    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    Can we ever get to the level of a country like Sweden or Germany when it comes to these things?
    No. People don't want to pay the tax that comes with those countries lifestyle. We can get closer though.


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    #107
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    Anyway apart from picking apart my comparisons etc, I don't think I'm a great debater or anything so no wonder I'm being pulled apart, what I really wanted to discuss is whether you think Ireland will get itself to a good place in our lifetimes. Can you see a good health service, a happier people, a steady economy built on other things apart from construction? Politicians we can trust? Good public transport? Can we ever get to the level of a country like Sweden or Germany when it comes to these things?
    You are simply clueless. We actually have pretty good transport for the size and population distribution. We have a pretty decent economic outlook going forward. Pharmaceuticals and software are majour outputs.
    We will never have the economies of scales other countries have as there is simply not enough people.
    You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money? Germany? Massive population that effectively was funded to have a complete new structure by allied and soviet funding after WWII?
    It isn't you can't debate it is you don't know the reality you are criticising.
    We will never have the NHS or BBC there isn't enough people to fund it.
    No politician can be trusted anywhere.


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    #108
    Jorah
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭Jorah


    I have said it before and I will say it again.


    It's time to reform.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Ireland


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    #109
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money?

    I think that you may have confused Sweden with Switzerland there, old boy.


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    #110
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    hooradiation wrote: »
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money?

    I think that you may have confused Sweden with Switzerland there, old boy.
    You are right.
    Sweden's massive taxes and exploitation of their forests is how they do it. They did diversify well with mobile phones. The come here for cheap goods.


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    #111
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You are simply clueless. We actually have pretty good transport for the size and population distribution. We have a pretty decent economic outlook going forward. Pharmaceuticals and software are majour outputs.
    We will never have the economies of scales other countries have as there is simply not enough people.
    You want us to be like Sweden ? The country that survives off the misery of other countries by hiding money? Germany? Massive population that effectively was funded to have a complete new structure by allied and soviet funding after WWII?
    It isn't you can't debate it is you don't know the reality you are criticising.
    We will never have the NHS or BBC there isn't enough people to fund it.
    No politician can be trusted anywhere.

    So what's your point. Nowhere is good, and Ireland is just fine?


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    #112
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You are right.
    Sweden's ... forests ...mobile phones.

    nope ...that's Finland :D

    try iron ore and flatpack furniture ;)


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    #113
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,353 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    So what's your point. Nowhere is good, and Ireland is just fine?
    the point is everywhere has issues. You can't expect every country to be equal. Social, historical and economic factors all play a part. We aren't third world and not massively different. Every country needs to improve and we are by no means the worst.
    Compare like with like. We are actually a pretty young country compared to many. For our history and size we are doing pretty damn fine. This economic downturn will pass


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    #114
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    So what's your point. Nowhere is good, and Ireland is just fine?

    I think his point, as illustrated by your op, is that you're the problem.


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    #115
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    paddyandy wrote: »
    People understand shortage of money but under the surface we have a lack of attention to maintaining values with us and that's just as important but gets' little attention .Every Election has been about Money only Money .So there it is .Things got worse in the Tiger years .Crime went soaring while cutbacks to the gardai went on at the same time .That's the Nation we are !!!!!!

    paddyandy, do you ever get bored with posting the same old excessively negative shíte on every thread you go on? I can hardly go on a thread in AH without finding you whinging (usually mistakenly) about something.


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    #116
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,520 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Sea Filly wrote: »
    I wouldn't do that. Would you?

    I certainly would not. However, I know at least 5 people of the top of my head who would see it as their right to game a system like that. Same reason why McDonald's don't offer refills in Irish branches and newspapers are sold from unmanned boxes in the street.


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    #117
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,485 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Without doubt this is one of the best countries in the world to live in. The weather is usually poor enough but the food and craic we have cannot be equalled anywhere.
    Yes we have corruption and a poor economic outlook at the minute (like many countries have) but I think our people are the best. Strangers will converse with you anywhere you go. That won't happen in too many other countries, England included. No matter where you go you will get drunks and druggies but by and large our people are fine. Last weekend we were unlucky in that so many of our dregs attended a gig at the same time, just unfortunate. A couple of dozen louts can ruin a good event for thousands. I have great faith in our youth and hate to see so many of them leaving.


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    #118
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    tayto lover wrote: »
    That won't happen in too many other countries, England included

    I talk to everyone regardless of colour or creed, wherever I am. Ireland is friendly yes apart from the usual scumbags. But your comment on England is incorrect, they are very friendly here, I know so many of my neighbours here and have been in their houses for drinks etc and I have only lived in this neighbourhood for a year. I get tick in the pub if I run out of money and all of the regulars know me by name. I went there for years and never got a hello or howya from the bar staff, but it's different here. So I resent your comment on England!


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    #119
    kr7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 747 ✭✭✭kr7


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    Has it improved? So poor people on the dole have xboxes and sky TV these days, which isn't really an improvement, but they are completely out of touch with everything and seem to be very angry. Were people getting beaten to death by teenagers or stabbed in the head with screwdrivers back then? Morals and decency and community are dead. Our leaders have shown us the way, to take all you can for yourself and not to care about anyone else.

    Example should be set from the top.

    Here, we have Kenny, who did 4 years teaching in the early 70's, never gave up his teaching position and is now entited to a €100,000 lump sum and €30k a year just from his teaching 'career'.

    Then we have Hogan, who has more loans on property than we know, owes a fortune and where did he get said loans? only from one michael fingleton the ex head of Irish Nationwide who screwed the country good and proper.

    Next we have james o'reilly, minister for health, named in stubbs gazette and is in direct contradiction of a high court order.

    The list goes on and on, ahern and cowan on €150,000 per year for destroying the country, developers and bankers laughing at us fools for bailing them out....

    So you see, if the example isn't being set from the top, can anyone really blame the average Irish citizen for not really giving a sh1t about the place??


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    #120
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    kr7 wrote: »
    Example should be set from the top.

    Here, we have Kenny, who did 4 years teaching in the early 70's, never gave up his teaching position and is now entited to a €100,000 lump sum and €30k a year just from his teaching 'career'.

    Then we have Hogan, who has more loans on property than we know, owes a fortune and where did he get said loans? only from one michael fingleton the ex head of Irish Nationwide who screwed the country good and proper.

    Next we have james o'reilly, minister for health, named in stubbs gazette and is in direct contradiction of a high court order.

    The list goes on and on, ahern and cowan on €150,000 per year for destroying the country, developers and bankers laughing at us fools for bailing them out....

    So you see, if the example isn't being set from the top, can anyone really blame the average Irish citizen for not really giving a sh1t about the place??

    I hear ya, but there's an attitude with some posters that it's alright as these things happen everywhere. Do they though? I cited the expenses scandal in Britain. MPs went to jail. Has a TD ever been sent to jail in Ireland? I'm asking that legitimately I don't know the answer!


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    #121
    EdanHewittt
    Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭EdanHewittt


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    Taking three sausages but only paying for two, not keying in the carrots. The Dane was horrified: "You mean, they would steal the food?"

    Self service checkout in Tesco is a similar situation.

    The Self Service thing really tests your conscience - it's so easy to bag a sly Twix. I know they have cameras, but I've seen the monitors, there is very little detail in the picture. Not exactly 1080p HD you're getting on them.

    (I smell a new thread in AH after writing this)


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