Sagem IDT81-SD picnic box

coylemj · 23-11-2009 4:34pm

I finally managed to pickup DTT from 3rock on ch54 with my indoor UHF aerial on Saturday and I also used the Picnic box to pick up Cairn Hill DTT from my sister's house in Mountmellick using her rooftop grid aerial. PQ was noticably better than analog.

kah22 · 23-11-2009 4:47pm

Just pointed my browser in the direction of Currys see what you mean they have them advertised there at £400 and also say out of stock and sold out.
What is going on?

Kevin

Rick_ · 23-11-2009 5:04pm

Like someone has already said, maybe they have a shed load of them and realise they might actually be popular as they are cheap and there was a sales spike for them, so they have 'withdrawn' them for a while to bring them back again with a higher price?

In seriousness though, I have read loads of complaints about the software etc. so maybe they were just sick and tired of people bringing them back and complaining so they are not selling them any more.

kah22 · 25-11-2009 8:17pm

Quick question. I'm living in Armagh City and have been receiving a good picture through my Seagam ITD81 Box, albeit I'm suffering from freezing every now and again but in honesty I'm putting a lot of that down to the signal not been put out at full strength.

However, over the past number of days the picture on all stations both the UK and the Republic have been degrading for a few seconds - a slight wobble, a secondary freeze, picture out of sink and a crackling sound every so often.

What I'd like to know is are other users of the Seagam box experiencing the same problems and do you think it is down to the current weather conditions.

Kevin

Sam Russell · 25-11-2009 8:28pm

kah22 wrote: »

Quick question. I'm living in Armagh City and have been receiving a good picture through my Seagam ITD81 Box, albeit I'm suffering from freezing every now and again but in honesty I'm putting a lot of that down to the signal not been put out at full strength.

However, over the past number of days the picture on all stations UK and the Republic I've been getting brook up pictures the picture degrades for a few seconds and there is a crackling sound every so often.

What I'd like to know is are other users of the Seagam box experiencing the same problems and do you think it is down to the current weather conditions.

Kevin

I get that if the box has been on for some time. I think it is overheating. It happens late in the evening, it is not related to signal as analogue comes in fine. It is noticeable that the front lh underside is warm. I would return the box, but I would rather keep it as it works. I will open it up when I get the chance and am prepared to write off the waranty. [There is a screw behind the paper label on the back that must be removed.]

BTW, the box looks like a very cheap and nasty manufacture, so a heat problem plus software bugs in to be expected.:mad:

Rick_ · 25-11-2009 9:03pm

I also live in Armagh City and would love to help, but unfortunatly Currys would not sell me a box... the b*****ds! I am in the process of getting a new TV though that has an MPEG4 tuner built in so hopefully should be up and running with the RTÉ channels in no time!

Hairy Ned · 25-11-2009 10:09pm

Hi i bought the picnic box a few weeks ago in currys of enniskillen,its not anything to do with signal i live outside longford town looking up at cairn hill with full signal and mine freezes,i raised my box about half a centimeter for Ventilation as under side gets very warm and have had no problems the last few nights.The other problem i have with this box is that the epg dose not work properly half the program info is missing ,is this rte or is it the picnic box.

cheers
Damo.

marclt · 26-11-2009 8:40pm

Hi

Been into Currys in Carmarthen... they had one ex-display model priced up at 19.99.

Next door in PC world, they had one boxed product left, but the price tag on the front of the shelf said £400 !!

Not just a local error then... it's across the group! I wonder did anyone actually buy it?

Marc

sesswhat · 26-11-2009 8:47pm

marclt wrote: »

Hi

Been into Currys in Carmarthen... they had one ex-display model priced up at 19.99.

Next door in PC world, they had one boxed product left, but the price tag on the front of the shelf said £400 !!

Not just a local error then... it's across the group! I wonder did anyone actually buy it?

Marc

Might consider selling mine for £390

gooner99 · 14-12-2009 11:30pm

Hi,

Anyone buy a "sagem IDT81" box on ebay uk?
If so could you pm me the details of the shop you used and your experience with them and the box.

Thanks,
Gooner

kah22 · 17-12-2009 7:08pm

Hi Guys I’m wondering if you can help me?

Since connecting a Sagem Picnic Box ITD81 (Freeview) to my system I’ve been unable to figure out how to record from the digital channels, in fact I don’t seem to be able to record from the standard VHF signal. Apologies in advance if the post seems long winded but I want to supply the maximum amount of information I can.

Here’s what I have:
a television with two scart sockets, and an aerial socket. There are other sockets on the front of the TV but I don’t want wires coming out at the front of the TV.

A DVD Player with one scart socket; a coaxal socket, sockets for left and right speakers, a video socket and an s-video socket.

A VCR Recorder with two scart sockets, an aerial in and aerial out socket.
And a s-video socket, and audio sockets for left and right speakers.

A Digi-box with two scart sockets, and an aerial in and and aerial out socket.

My roof-top aerial cord goes into what I assume is a signal booster which is plugged into the power supply. My digi box is tuned to AV2

Here is how my system is connected
The aerial is connected thus
1 Outdoor Aerial in-BOOSTER-out to DIGI BOX
2 in-DIGI BOX-out VCR
3 in-VCR-out TELEVISION
4 connects to TELEVISION aerial socket.

My scart cables are connected like this
TELEVISION two scarts are named AV1 and AV2
AV1 connects to DVD Player’s Scart Out socket (it only has one scart socket)
AV2 connects to scart socket named TV on the DIGI BOX

The second scart socket on the Digi Box named VCR connects to a scart socket on my VCR named audio video decoder 2.

I am left with a spare scart connection named audio video decoder 1 on the VCR.
In total there are three scart leads.

That’s where I am at. Do any of my connections seem faulty? My VCR manual has long since disappeared. So any ideas on how I might record from Freeview to my VCR?

Feel free to PM me if you think it would be more helpful.

Kevin

Another quick question: as the Sagem can decode mpeg4 as well as mpeg2 does that mean it has two tuners?

rurs · 17-12-2009 11:36pm

Hi Kevin
The connections you've made seem right. Presumably you had no trouble recording before you added the Sagem?
First thing to check is can you see the digital channels through the VCR on the TV?
You'll need to select AV2 on the VCR, and select the video channel on the TV. If you can see picture, you should be able to record it. You could also try AV1 instead of AV2 on the VCR. Are there little symbols beside these sockets? A sort of rectangle with arrows? You'll need to use the one with an arrow in, or in and out. Also try some other cables if all else fails.
My own setup is quite similar to yours, other than I have a DVR instead of VCR. The DVR has a handy feature, Synchro Record. I schedule a recording on the Sagem, turn it off, then put the DVR into Synchro Record by holding down the Record Stop button. This puts the DVR into standby, but it will wake up and start recording when it senses a signal on AV1, from the Sagem.
Maybe your VCR has something similar? Otherwise, you'd have to set a timer on both the Sagem and the VCR.
As a matter of interest, when you initially apply power to the Sagem, and after it's gone through "88:88" and "init", does it show the correct time, or just four dashes?
As regards the tuner, I would think there's just one, but it's backwards compatible, as MPEG4 is an evolution of MPEG2.
Hope that helps, otherwise ask away!

kah22 · 18-12-2009 1:11am

Came across the following diagram from Which Online. It seems to suggest that a two way scart switch is required for what I want. I had a look on ebay and found the following examples of two way switches. They are not particularly expensive but would rurs example work just as well?

I've attached the image to a small creative writers blog that I'm involved with as it is tolarge to post here. Hope it comes out right.

lawhec · 10-11-2010 10:26pm

Got a bit of a surprise this evening in the workshop. There is a software update for this STB! It's available if you can receive Mux 1 (NI) or BBC-A (Wales), upgrading to version V 0.24.31 but if you can, be quick as it'll be gone on Friday morning.

To get the update, power on the STB, tune it to BBC1, and then put the box back into standby - the LED at the front will flash, when it stop flashing after a few minutes, power it back on and a message of a software update should be available. If you select "Now", the process takes around 15 minutes, the screen will go off during this and the front display will do a count up from 00 to 05 during the update.

First quick impressions are that there is no obvious extras to the menu, but the STB feels a bit cooler to touch in operation. It's still crashing too often on me though

And it doesn't go without saying - DO NOT BUY THIS STB (Sagem Picnic ITD81) FOR THE PURPOSE OF WATCHING SAORVIEW AS IT WILL NOT HANDLE HD BROADCASTS WHEN DONE SO BY BROADCASTERS. I've had mine a year for testing, I'll know at some point in the near future it'll be progressively less useful as broadcasters use more HD streams as opposed to SD.

sesswhat · 10-11-2010 11:08pm

I'd give it a go except Freeview from Limavady has gone to the dogs since they did the work there last month, and Mux1 is gone.

By the sound of it though, the improvements are minimal. Hardly worth packing everything in the car and driving up to Scraghey quarry for Brougher

FREETV · 10-11-2010 11:19pm

lawhec wrote: »

Got a bit of a surprise this evening in the workshop. There is a software update for this STB! It's available if you can receive Mux 1 (NI) or BBC-A (Wales), upgrading to version V 0.24.31 but if you can, be quick as it'll be gone on Friday morning.

To get the update, power on the STB, tune it to BBC1, and then put the box back into standby - the LED at the front will flash, when it stop flashing after a few minutes, power it back on and a message of a software update should be available. If you select "Now", the process takes around 15 minutes, the screen will go off during this and the front display will do a count up from 00 to 05 during the update.

First quick impressions are that there is no obvious extras to the menu, but the STB feels a bit cooler to touch in operation. It's still crashing too often on me though

And it doesn't go without saying - DO NOT BUY THIS STB (Sagem Picnic ITD81) FOR THE PURPOSE OF WATCHING SAORVIEW AS IT WILL NOT HANDLE HD BROADCASTS WHEN DONE SO BY BROADCASTERS. I've had mine a year for testing, I'll know at some point in the near future it'll be progressively less useful as broadcasters use more HD streams as opposed to SD.

Pity as I cannot receive Freeview here in Swords as I can't put up an outside aerial and point one towards a Welsh transmitter, the joy of not owning the place. I cannot see any other way of forcing an update either as there is no connection but there is a card slot.

gtg60 · 11-11-2010 1:17am

Has to be OTA has it?

With is the likelihood of it coming again in a few weeks/ months?

Sam Russell · 11-11-2010 3:57pm

I was onto Sagem in the UK and I was promised an email to give a link to a version of the update that I could upload through the USB port. SIZE=2][I]I will post any answer I get[/I][/SIZE.

Of course my picnic does not have a USB port, but we will see. The nice guy I spoke to had no idea what the update would do for the product.

There is hope yet for the picnic, not much, but at least some.

B][I]I would not advise anyone to buy a Sagem Picnic box as they will not work in the long-term[/I][/B

rurs · 11-11-2010 11:10pm

The manual mentions RS-232 capabilities through the AUX Scart port, so that should work if you get a file and pin-out schematics, and are able to make up a cable. It will be interesting to see how this develops...

watty · 12-11-2010 2:50pm

Null modem cable. Though some of those serial port FW updating SW only work on Win98.

Sam Russell · 12-11-2010 2:57pm

I got a reply from Sagecom, but it is not complete. They did sound helpful though, so promising.

This is the email.

Here, as promised, is the link for software updates - however, having
checked myself this morning, it's not yet available - which is something
I've mentioned to my superiors. Usually the link appears only after it's
been broadcast over the air, so hopefully it should be appearing soon: so
please regularly check this site:

http://www.sagemcomdigital.co.uk

kind regards,

rurs · 13-11-2010 12:07am

watty wrote: »

Null modem cable. Though some of those serial port FW updating SW only work on Win98.

The point is, though, that the Picnic doesn't have a standard DE-9 socket.
Have you ever come across a STB that uses SCART for RS232? I suppose one could wire it up by trial and error? We'd need software too, as you say.

Unless they implement HD downscaling to SCART, (unlikely, but there is/was aTNT_HD version available in France), I don't think I'd be too bothered.

gtg60 · 13-11-2010 12:14am

Some information I found about RS232 to SCART

http://www.digitaltvbanter.co.uk/uk-tech-digital-tv-digital/26438-sagem-idt62-serial-success.html

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=3104725

watty · 13-11-2010 12:23am

Just guessing...

Though SCART on ancient Decoder/Setbox two box solutions sometimes used:

14 DATAGND Data Ground. Or use any of the other Ground pins. Do not use shield as ground
12 DATA Data 1: Data Out (go to pin 2 on PC DB9)
10 CLKOUT Data 2: Clockpulse Out (Likely Data in, pin 3 on DB9)
SCART http://pinouts.ru/Home/Scart_pinout.shtml

It seems unlikely but not impossible.
PC http://pinouts.ru/SerialPorts/Serial9_pinout.shtml

At PC end Minimum is
2 on PC is Data in
3 on PC is Data out
5 is Ground
on PC short other pins (in plug on PC end) as per below

4 & 7 don't connect anywhere

This post does sound plausible. http://www.digitaltvbanter.co.uk/uk-tech-digital-tv-digital/26438-sagem-idt62-serial-success.html

But Honestly, to make up the cable and do the work, if charged at half technicial rates would pay for a real HD box.

These Sagem Picnic are "Built down to a price" for a Budget PayTV service, (Picnic) that Sky never got (and never will) get permission to launch. An amazing piece of arrogance on Sky's part. They all should have been recycled or sold in some country that is never ever going to do HD. They should not have been sold in UK or on open market.

Some "boxes" are more complex to add a serial port http://www.techtir.ie/mods/wrt54g3g-serial-port

winston_1 · 13-11-2010 1:12am

watty wrote: »

They all should have been recycled or sold in some country that is never ever going to do HD. They should not have been sold in UK or on open market.

The only place they could have sold them without software modification was the UK as they are country locked to the UK. They were sold as SD boxes with audio description at a very good price for those facilities.

They were never intended to be "grey exported" to Ireland. I guess the reason they were pulled after 2 weeks was that the majority were being exported to Ireland.

watty · 13-11-2010 1:16am

Unfair competition to other makers. Product "dumping".

Sam Russell · 13-11-2010 11:45am

I think they got a lot of returns.

Sam Russell · 22-11-2010 4:05pm

The Picnic box will be upgraded over the air 10am 22-11-2010 till 9am 24-11-2010 and again 10am 03-12-2010 till 9am 05-12-2010.

Not sure how it works, but they mention PSB Mux 1.

http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/download_schedule.php

glineli · 22-11-2010 5:57pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Picnic box will be upgraded over the air 10am 22-11-2010 till 9am 24-11-2010 and again 10am 03-12-2010 till 9am 05-12-2010.

Not sure how it works, but they mention PSB Mux 1.

http://www.dtg.org.uk/industry/download_schedule.php

stupid question but what exactly will this upgrade do?

watty · 22-11-2010 6:01pm

Nothing useful here.

Sam Russell · 22-11-2010 6:26pm

glineli wrote: »

stupid question but what exactly will this upgrade do?

The fact that there is an update is surprising. My picnic box is version 24.29 and this update brings it to 24.31

I have no idea what it will do, but it must do something important as the box is obsoltete as the service it was produced for is not going ahead. There are some bugs on the remote, but I think it has something to do with power consumtion. They are reputed to have power problems, so could be a safety issue. Your guess might be better. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the update but I might try to get it somewhere that will get it.

winston_1 · 22-11-2010 8:39pm

This is a repeat of the upgrade that was broadcast 2 weeks ago. At the time I upgraded one of my 2 boxes and then compared both side by side. I could not see any difference what so ever. I did not measure power consumption however. I then upgraded the other box for completeness.

lawhec · 22-11-2010 9:37pm

The only difference I've noticed is that it seems to run a bit cooler now with the software upgrade.

I think I remember reading that there is a fault with the PSU adaptor supplied with some of the receivers (mines as well probably) which imposes a DC voltage on the coax cable. Probably the cause of mine freezing quite a bit after 15-20 minutes. I did get the lend of a different adaptor unit and the Picnic worked fine without freezing for about an hour before being switched off.

winston_1 · 22-11-2010 11:33pm

lawhec wrote: »

The only difference I've noticed is that it seems to run a bit cooler now with the software upgrade.

I think I remember reading that there is a fault with the PSU adaptor supplied with some of the receivers (mines as well probably) which imposes a DC voltage on the coax cable.

It's impossible for the external PSU adapter to cause that.

However as it is a modified French design it probably has the capability to put 5 volts on the coax to power an aerial amplifier. Maybe this had not been permanantly disabled. Can't check now as I've updated mine.

glineli · 23-11-2010 12:39pm

lawhec wrote: »

The only difference I've noticed is that it seems to run a bit cooler now with the software upgrade.

I think I remember reading that there is a fault with the PSU adaptor supplied with some of the receivers (mines as well probably) which imposes a DC voltage on the coax cable. Probably the cause of mine freezing quite a bit after 15-20 minutes. I did get the lend of a different adaptor unit and the Picnic worked fine without freezing for about an hour before being switched off.

Can you view the channels via coax? i can only view them via scart.

Sam Russell · 23-11-2010 1:17pm

glineli wrote: »

Can you view the channels via coax? i can only view them via scart.

No.

watty · 23-11-2010 1:50pm

Tis only an RF loop through. No modulator.

Applies to most boxes. If your TV has no scart, it's very very old.

If you want TV in another room, get a setbox or Digital TV for that room. The RF modulators are OK for VHS which is poor anyway, dastardly reduction in quality for Digital. Off air Analogue is higher quality.

Sam Russell · 23-11-2010 10:27pm

Sagecom says the Picnic box decodes MPEG 4 and MHEG5 signals, and it decodes AAC so apart from the lack of HD it works for Saorview. So for a few years it will work, mostly. I think that I wont be binning mine for a while. I might even try to upgrade the firmware if I can, but I do not think the upgrade does much, it is only a minor change. Stange that they are doing it though. They also said the Currys are marketing it and it is therefore their responsibility. (In other words, get lost.)

watty · 23-11-2010 11:07pm

No, not even for a few years.

Regard it as potentially a Radio, and Please don't anyone encourage the parasites dumping these on the market here by buying one. They are being sold below cost as they are obsolete and the service that they where built for will never exist.

I'm quite happy for people that have them to try and get the most out of them. But a USB stick, Metronic DVB-T2 "Freeview HD" (£59) or Technika DVB-T2 "Freeview HD" (£70, or £36 refurb.) box is a better cheap alternative if you are not buying a Saorview box.

STB · 23-11-2010 11:21pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Sagecom says the Picnic box decodes MPEG 4 and MHEG5 signals, and it decodes AAC so apart from the lack of HD it works for Saorview. So for a few years it will work, mostly. I think that I wont be binning mine for a while. I might even try to upgrade the firmware if I can, but I do not think the upgrade does much, it is only a minor change. Stange that they are doing it though. They also said the Currys are marketing it and it is therefore their responsibility. (In other words, get lost.)

Sagecom can say what they want. MPEG4 is not a technical term to be used on its own as there are different levels of MPEG4. Divx uses a low level of MPEG4 H264 but not part 10.

MPEG4 L3 = SD and NO Good
MPEG4 L4 = HD decoding.

These boxes were manufactured years ago for another purpose. They should not be considered an option. RTE2 will not work come the new year.

Sam Russell · 23-11-2010 11:47pm

STB wrote: »

These boxes were manufactured years ago for another purpose. They should not be considered an option. RTE2 will not work come the new year.

Agreed, Picnic boxes should not be bought by anyone. But if you have one, as I do, it works for the moment and I will no be binning it anytime soon. It will only be used for a bedroom tv when I replace my MPEG2 Sony after Christmas.

Kristopherus · 24-11-2010 1:34am

STB wrote: »

Sagecom can say what they want. MPEG4 is not a technical term to be used on its own as there are different levels of MPEG4. Divx uses a low level of MPEG4 H264 but not part 10.

MPEG4 L3 = SD and NO Good
MPEG4 L4 = HD decoding.

These boxes were manufactured years ago for another purpose. They should not be considered an option. RTE2 will not work come the new year.

RTE2 may not even exist in the new year with the way the finances of the country have gone. I'm sure it will be some time before RTE will be in a position to even consider going HD. Having said that, I agree with Sam Russel, but for anyone that has one of these boxes, don't bin them yet. You will, in all probability, get at least a few years use out of them.

watty · 24-11-2010 9:18am

The Government doesn't finance RTE.

Consider the boxes a cheap "DAB" Radio. (better coverage than real DAB). I wouldn't talk about binning them.

RTE will definitely have some HD content within next 8 months, not years. It will be a process of several years before all the main channels are HD. But even TV3 has a timescale.

Sagem IDT81-SD picnic box

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